Post: #1

After getting out of an LTR four months ago, and getting merely two notches, I'm back to the drawing board.

My method at the moment is mostly lining up dates from online (POF, OKC and tinder before it stopped working), sometimes double booking to avoid flakes but usually I get the first dates pretty easily.

However, I'm barely getting any second dates.

On the dates I'm following this guide, trying to tell stories with DHV and playfully kino. Usually I go for the kiss in the end, didn't get rejected so far.

To schedule the second date, I'm usually waiting three to four days and text "let's meet up in (place and time)", usually I don't get any response, and got several "let's be friends".
Several girls have ignored me after telling me "text me!" at the end.

Any advice?

Post: #2

(06-19-2014 08:33 AM)Rootless Wrote:  usually I don't get any response, and got several "let's be friends".

major red flag right there. are you throwing in enough sexual vibe in your convo's?

Post: #3

I used to think that yes but probably not given the results.
Besides the usual playful kino, what else?
How can you communicate that in a story for example without coming off as barging show off?

Also, maybe I should go for the kiss during the date?

Post: #4

well the thing is you look good enough and behave well enough to get a kiss at the end of the date (like you said, you haven't been rejected) only to be either ignored or friendzoned afterwards.

this could mean two things (or a combo of both):
- too much nice-guy-game
- not enough sexual tension

could you give us an example of your typical date?
- convo's (exact words, yours/hers)
- locations, venues
- body language
etc.

Post: #5

Rootless you are getting the "lets be friends" reply is because you aren't being viewed as a sexual threat.
To these women you are safe.
You should be kissing the girl about mid-way through the date and repeatedly after that. To the point where at the end of the date the final kiss good night is sexualized and you grab a handful of ass when you pull her in tightly.
She'll either push you away and turn her head or melt into your body.
If she pushes you away then don't bother texting her back and move on.

Don't wait so long to contact her again. 2 days max is the limit.
I know some guys here are afraid to text a girl too early because their text game is bad.
Honestly i just copy what El Mechanico sends to girls. They eat it up.

Post: #6

How to make it sexual? Pick a feature of hers and tell her it's sexy. The word sexy is not said to friends.

"Your eyes are really intense. It's sexy."
"You have such passion when you talk about that. It's sexy."
"I love they way you walk in those heels. Very sexy."

Don't pick an obvious sexual body part like tits or ass though, pretend you haven't noticed those until later on.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #7

(06-19-2014 10:54 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  2 days max is the limit.

I'm in similar situations. Can you please explain why longer than two days is too long?

Post: #8

"Also, maybe I should go for the kiss during the date?"

You should ALWAYS go for the kiss.

Start small.

When you walk into a bar with her, open the door and put your hand on the small of her back.

Casually touch her leg, or my personal favorite:

"What are you hiding back there?" (Referring to her ass) Then take her hand and spin her around. This one is gold and has never failed me. They will laugh and blush.

Little things like that 'sexualize' the date.

Girls want to be desired physically.

Girls love to kiss.

Girls want to be fucked.

Girls are drawn to men who are UNAPOLOGETICALLY MASCULINE and sexual in tone.

Start thinking in your mind: 'she needs to get fucked and I'm the guy to do it'.

Read this: http://blockedurl.com/2014/02/14/weekend...et-fucked/

Post: #9

Do you leave bait for date #2 during date #1? You gotta whet their appetite with the excitement and thrill of hanging out again. Leaving them thinking that you may never meet again is a dangerous seed to combat if you're serious about securing the bang.

Post: #10

Talk less and listen more. Let them know a little but make them want to know more.

Don't be so nice.

Make eye contact but get busted checking them out. Tits ass whatever.

Touch. ASAP.


This just based on my experience of successes AND failures.

Post: #11

Delete.

Sorry, I should really learn again to read before asking.

Post: #12

Not sure if I 100% agreed on the "let's be friends" meaning he's not moving fast enough.

Women don't usually say something like that to a guy trying to get a second date from them unless he's really fucking something up and creeped or grossed them out somehow. If it was moving too slow, they'd just ignore, tell him they were busy, or maybe even at least give him a second date to make his move, especially if he at least went for the kiss on the first go-round. Obviously they suspect he's going to escalate further next time they meet and a kiss may not be much but it shows he is willing to act on his desires.

Am I the only one who thinks there's something more going on here? I mean, several girls bothering with a "let's be friends" after one date? How is the conversation even being taken there? Something's fishy.

OP how's your breath and overall hygiene? Are you a good kisser? What are your social skills like - do people get a weird vibe from you when they don't know you very well?

Is there something else you might be doing that's throwing a wrench in this operation?

Because if you've got something weird or even just a bit awkward going on that's crushing your game, turning up the sexual escalation may not be the answer. I suppose you could try it and see though.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

If your goal is sex, get a lot of pre-date phone time in -- preferably late at night -- and if the woman gets heavily sexual that's your ticket. In other words, build pre-meeting rapport. When this is the case with me, I don't even schedule dates. Sometimes in the throes of dirty talk it'll be like "Let's just meet now!"

If you goal is a new relationship, casual or serious, read on.

The problem might be some of the women who get on these sites. I've noticed a lot of them fall into two categories. They're either serial daters or women who are skittish about men in general.

First, the serial daters. There is a subset of women on OKC and POF who get on there are stay on there for years, it seems. I think they just like to meet different men and go on dates (and not have to pay for dinner).

Make sure you're not meeting this group of women, but I'm not sure how exactly you'd do that unless you've been lurking on dating sites for years. Maybe put their profile in the Wayback Machine at Archive.org and see how long it's been up?

Second, some women are on OKC and POF because they have problems warming to men in the real world. By being too forward you push them away. For these women, meeting someone online takes time and they're in the mindset that it's going to be a "process."

I know all the PUA books say to go for the kiss, but I've found this works a lot better when you know the girl IRL (from school or work, for instance) and there was some pre-date rapport and sexual tension building. It also works when you meet a woman at a bar and she's there because she's down for action.

But if you try to kiss-close with this type of woman you met online, it often comes off like you're too needy, desperate or pushy, and they go running. Guys who are too forward can and do scare women off, no matter what the PUA literature says. You need to calibrate to the woman and the mood that the two of you build. Women like to be led, not pushed.

If there is a nice vibe building, sure, go for a kiss. But if the mood seems chilly but you get the feeling something could transpire in the future, I'd recommend deliberately not doing it. Because not going for a kiss can actually bring out insecurities in the woman, and if she likes you, she'll make damn sure to show it on the second date.*

Not all rewards are instant in life. And by being too intense and forward, you can actually break sexual tension, not create it. Think of the game we played with paper clips and magnets as kids. If you moved the magnet too quickly, you'd push the clips away. But move in slowly and you'd attract them. Sometimes dates are like this.

TL; DR. I'll sum it up with a "That '70s Show" reference. Sometimes with online dating, it's best to take on the persona of Hyde, not Eric.

* This is how I ended up with my ex-wife, for what it's worth. At the time, I was 25 and dead broke. She was sought after by men almost twice my age with lots of money. I piqued her interest by showing no interest on our date. She later said something like "Every guy I dated was all over me...and it was like I could predict what they wanted to do. But I kept thinking all the next week after you didn't even try on our first date what WAS it with you?" Hahahahaha. Unpredictability wins sometimes.

Post: #14

You're telling us what you do.

Me, Me, Me

You're not telling us how the girls are reacting.

Everyone giving you advice is only going off of 10% of the story.

WIA

Post: #15

(06-19-2014 04:33 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Not all rewards are instant in life. And by being too intense and forward, you can actually break sexual tension, not create it. Think of the game we played with paper clips and magnets as kids. If you moved the magnet too quickly, you'd push the clips away. But move in slowly and you'd attract them. Sometimes dates are like this.

What a great analogy.

I also often find that if I move too fast, it's because I'm thinking about what other guys write or say they do rather than trusting my own instincts and the vibe of the situation. That often doesn't work in my favor.

But if I take my time most girls I hang out with eventually open up.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #16

First of all thanks everyone for chipping in and helping.
Now I'll try to answer everything

(06-19-2014 09:38 AM)lowside Wrote:  could you give us an example of your typical date?
- convo's (exact words, yours/hers)
- locations, venues
- body language
etc.

- Convos
I don't have a preplanned stories to say, I usually start the convo and let it flow.
The exception being filling the blanks with Spike's questions.
It's hard to come up with exact quotes but I've gave some throughout this post

- Locations: there is a go-to pub around 7 minutes walk from my place that I use for first date, second... have yet to figure it out.
It's a semi upper class pub, not a sports bar.
Have a nice patio (an asset in Toronto, now that we have some sun here), and usually no music or very quite music.
Usually half-full, and full on Friday eves.

-Body language
I usually sit back, relax and semi-maintain eye contact, occasionally looking at something else to avoid staring at her. Trying to communicate that I'm a bit of interested and she needs to sell it to me.

(06-19-2014 10:54 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  Rootless you are getting the "lets be friends" reply is because you aren't being viewed as a sexual threat.
To these women you are safe.
You should be kissing the girl about mid-way through the date and repeatedly after that. To the point where at the end of the date the final kiss good night is sexualized and you grab a handful of ass when you pull her in tightly.
She'll either push you away and turn her head or melt into your body.
If she pushes you away then don't bother texting her back and move on.

Don't wait so long to contact her again. 2 days max is the limit.
I know some guys here are afraid to text a girl too early because their text game is bad.
Honestly i just copy what El Mechanico sends to girls. They eat it up.

Interesting points, both kissing midway and waiting only two days. I'll give it a shot.
Could you please link me to El Mechanico texts guide\example\templates\whatever?

(06-19-2014 11:05 AM)Benoit Wrote:  How to make it sexual? Pick a feature of hers and tell her it's sexy. The word sexy is not said to friends.

"Your eyes are really intense. It's sexy."
"You have such passion when you talk about that. It's sexy."
"I love they way you walk in those heels. Very sexy."

Don't pick an obvious sexual body part like tits or ass though, pretend you haven't noticed those until later on.

A bit relucted about this one, doesn't it come off as creepy?

(06-19-2014 02:12 PM)ThePianoMan Wrote:  Do you leave bait for date #2 during date #1? You gotta whet their appetite with the excitement and thrill of hanging out again. Leaving them thinking that you may never meet again is a dangerous seed to combat if you're serious about securing the bang.

Doesn't it comes off as too needy?

(06-19-2014 03:45 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Am I the only one who thinks there's something more going on here? I mean, several girls bothering with a "let's be friends" after one date? How is the conversation even being taken there? Something's fishy.

You hit it right in the head, something is fucked up here, and that's why I'm seeking advice.

It stroke me when the last girl the FZed me, we were sitting on the bar in the pub I've mention earlier. Everything went pretty smooth, we talked about the world cup at some point, and I've said "I'd rather do sports then watch them on TV, it's more a social thing in my opinion. You know, instead of drink beer and talk with my buddies we drink beer and watch the game"
To which she replied "I can see, you are fairly fit" (!).

Shit, at the end of the date, after we've kissed, she actually told me "I had a lot of fun, text me!"

(06-19-2014 03:45 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  OP how's your breath and overall hygiene? Are you a good kisser? What are your social skills like - do people get a weird vibe from you when they don't know you very well?

Is there something else you might be doing that's throwing a wrench in this operation?

Because if you've got something weird or even just a bit awkward going on that's crushing your game, turning up the sexual escalation may not be the answer. I suppose you could try it and see though.

Hygiene - always shower and groom before going out, using Old Spice deodorant and Hugo Boss perfume. Don't think its an hygiene.

Kisser - it's a bit harder to measure, but it's not the case.

Social\weird vibe - I'm fairly social, have friends and weave it into the convos to communicate it, don't think it's that.

However, it might be my low alcohol tolerance, the limit for dates is two beers. On the third I start getting tipsy, which is counterproductive.
Maybe during the second beer I'm not as sharp and that's throwing the wrench? maybe bad game starts to bleed out?
This one is a bit harder to improve, any tips are welcomed on this one.

Also it's a bit far fetch but everything is possible, as foreigner here as I type this line, could girls think that all the dating thing is only to marry them and get a citizenship?
It's being countered by telling that I'm in the process of getting a degree to get a citizenship (which is the truth btw) during the "what do you do in life" stage which is never more then five minutes in.

Again, nothing is ruled out in this point.



@Days of Broken Arrows
Thanks a lot for this advice, maybe taking a step back would be helpful.


@WIA
During the date girls seem to be having fun.
I tend at some point I shut up and let them carry the convo, most of the time they will and come up with a new topic.
Vast majority of the time I choose when end the date, so they don't leave in the middle or anything.
A lot of girls say
"You're the worst" in a playful way, usually involved hitting my arm.
"you're really sure in yourself\overconfidence" several times.



More useful info:
I tend to be a five to ten minutes late, usually she already sits and if it's possible I'll sit next to her.
Been thinking about arriving just on time so I could have better control over sitting arrangements.

Post: #17

(06-21-2014 12:17 PM)Rootless Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:05 AM)Benoit Wrote:  How to make it sexual? Pick a feature of hers and tell her it's sexy. The word sexy is not said to friends.

A bit relucted about this one, doesn't it come off as creepy?

I doubt you're going on dates with women you don't find sexually appealing. Be a man and say what's on your mind.

Two things to keep in mind:
1. Remember how good it feels when someone gives you a compliment? Don't be so arrogant as to think a woman doesn't want to be desired.
2. It is a clear statement of intent. You want to polarise women, if she's not into you then you want her gone, if she is into you then draw her in.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #18

Girls like mysterious men. And generally tune out when you talk too much, then think your boring.

How much are you talking during the date?
50/50? 70/30? 90/10?

When you talk on and on, no matter how awesome your story is, she loses interest. I dont care what people say, its a universal truth about women. When you drone on, she looks at her watch. In todays day and age, even more so.

Before you divulge any information about who you are, let her ask you questions about yourself first. Do it for every basic detail about who you are. Don't volunteer anything except your name!

As you answer, be coy, one word answers, and drop salacious bait about yourself. Let her dig the information about of you like a detective.

She says "What do you do", you say "I work in the legal profession", she says, "Really, in what way", you say, "I help people get what they want", she says "Oh really, and what do they want", you say "I win big sums of money for big groups of people who were taken advantage of", she says "Oh my gosh, how??"

Thats a lot more fun then coming out and blabbing before your drink, "I'm a 27 year old junior class action lawsuit attorney from Houston and I love US Soccer."

Every girl wants desire, danger and excitement. When you put yourself out there 100% in the first 15 minutes of a first date, you essentially kill any shot of that. Maybe your looks will save you then, but not if you come off like a dork.

Let her think you are married, a playboy, a rich guy, a felon or have a girlfriend. Let her wonder about who you are and drag this information out you. I guarantee the more questions she asks, the wetter she will be. Be mysterious and hold back a bit a bit a first.

Post: #19

Kind of a newbie question here.

What's the best thing to text a girl after the first date if you want to invite her for a second date? I usually wait a couple of days and then send a text.

"Hey _____, how are you" doesn't seem to work very well.

"Hey ____, how are you. Let's meet up sometime this week"... is that better? Does it have to be more specific?