Post: #351

I think this was mentioned in the other thread, but I'm quite stunned at the SLOWNESS of the sex speed here, even compared to Ukraine. I'm getting resistance at the kiss upon the end of the first date. In Ukraine I was mostly successful in that feat. Most girls are not drinking at all.

Usually when you get a girl back to your apartment, some action is assured, but here the girls put up insane resistance even when you're isolated in a comfortable apartment. Am I doing something wrong or what? I feel like getting just a bit of action requires large amounts of work and aggressiveness. Two girls have said they want a relationship, not sex, as in the relationship must come first. Come on now, no pussy is worth that much work.

Post: #352

Do the chicks like the beard there?
Are they common?

Post: #353

(06-09-2014 01:37 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I think this was mentioned in the other thread, but I'm quite stunned at the SLOWNESS of the sex speed here, even compared to Ukraine. I'm getting resistance at the kiss upon the end of the first date. In Ukraine I was mostly successful in that feat. Most girls are not drinking at all.

Usually when you get a girl back to your apartment, some action is assured, but here the girls put up insane resistance even when you're isolated in a comfortable apartment. Am I doing something wrong or what? I feel like getting just a bit of action requires large amounts of work and aggressiveness. Two girls have said they want a relationship, not sex, as in the relationship must come first. Come on now, no pussy is worth that much work.

I think being in Siberia has a part to play with it.

When I was in Tomsk, my two bangs came on the same night, BUT I was up all night to get there and it took a lot of effort and slyness to get there. The first one I had to get her # from my buddy who had it, and when she was in bed with her passed out friend at 7am I texted her to come "for one kiss" and then the bang happened. Immediately after she went back into bed with her friend so she wouldn't notice when they woke up.

The second one was actually a random friend of my buddy's date, where we invited two sets of two girls. The one I invited on the actual date wouldn't do anything. So back to this girl, up to 6 or 7 in the morning, had to convince her to let me give her massage when the sun was up, then bang. She said I was a bad man afterwards in a joking way though of course.

Novosibirsk who the hell knows. I get shutout the entire 5 days except the last night when I have a threesome, so go figure. My buddy's girl that he banged was rather attractive I will say, on date 1. But in Novo there was much more of a "wow you are from LA? I want to fuck you" whereas in Tomsk it was "wow you are from LA? I want to tell my friends about this."

Moscow was very very different, as most people have commented before. It has the NYC feel of sluttiness being ok, but you still get the great aspect of them being Russian girls. It went ONS, 2nd date bang, 2nd date bang. All best quality of the trip, probably why I loved Moscow so much.

But back to your question, I don't think you are doing anything wrong. In three weeks in Tomsk I went out maybe 16 nights, and got 2 bangs one which could be considered social circle.

Also as a benefit of there being two of us, it was always high energy back at our apartment. Music blasting, pouring shots and smoking cigarettes. So however you want to look at that, as in either 1) we are attracting more party girls, or 2) we put these girls in a party mood, it seems sex is more likely at a higher speed.

Anyway just some random thoughts. In the end we still couldn't figure out Tomsk whereas the other cities we had some general consensus.

Post: #354

(06-09-2014 01:37 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I think this was mentioned in the other thread, but I'm quite stunned at the SLOWNESS of the sex speed here, even compared to Ukraine. I'm getting resistance at the kiss upon the end of the first date. In Ukraine I was mostly successful in that feat. Most girls are not drinking at all.

Usually when you get a girl back to your apartment, some action is assured, but here the girls put up insane resistance even when you're isolated in a comfortable apartment. Am I doing something wrong or what? I feel like getting just a bit of action requires large amounts of work and aggressiveness. Two girls have said they want a relationship, not sex, as in the relationship must come first. Come on now, no pussy is worth that much work.

Tell me about it, I found it very difficult to close in Russia, unless you set up a short term relationship with them. The girls I were seeing in Moscow, wanted me to meet their parents beforehand and gave up an astonishing amount of LMR. I wasn't paying for dates and they were very sweet, so I wasn't losing much, cooking for me, etc.

I reckon its either down to two things.

1) Being a foreigner who seems intelligent, got style, potentially a lot of money. For them to hook you down and make sure you are invested in them. If they give away the cheese so early on, they know its a good chance that you will lose interest. When they meet a man, they are thinking of the long term outcome, rather than immediate gratification.


2) Tradition, on the most part a patriarchal country. Although it gives me blue balls, i think in the long term its beneficial for the country's future.

Post: #355

The girl I ended up banging in Moscow, who by everything I have seen then and since is not a party girl at all, took about 5-6 dates to bang even though she was incredibly attracted to me. She refused to let me kiss her for like 2-3 dates. Even after being alone in my apartment the first time, she refused. Shit is just slower there, or at least it is common for it to be slower. But for me it's not so bad. I enjoy the process because the girls are usually a pleasure to spend time with; I like them as people, so I'm always getting something out of the interaction. Thus, even if it takes longer on average, I don't view the whole thing as a waste or inefficient (but I'm not gung ho for quantity).

Post: #356

Quote:I enjoy the process because the girls are usually a pleasure to spend time with

Girls in Poland, Romania, Croatia, and Estonia are a pleasure to spend time with, and they move to sex much faster, and they are often proficient in my language, and their countries are cheaper. Maybe Russian girls have a lower notch count, but I'm not exactly looking for a wife at the moment.

Post: #357

(06-09-2014 01:37 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I think this was mentioned in the other thread, but I'm quite stunned at the SLOWNESS of the sex speed here, even compared to Ukraine. I'm getting resistance at the kiss upon the end of the first date. In Ukraine I was mostly successful in that feat. Most girls are not drinking at all.

Usually when you get a girl back to your apartment, some action is assured, but here the girls put up insane resistance even when you're isolated in a comfortable apartment. Am I doing something wrong or what? I feel like getting just a bit of action requires large amounts of work and aggressiveness. Two girls have said they want a relationship, not sex, as in the relationship must come first. Come on now, no pussy is worth that much work.

It's not just the small towns. The women here in Moscow absolutely have MPS too.

I'm convinced it's just the club girls, or rare bluebirds who will give it up on the first or 2nd date. I've had pretty much the same conversation with every girl I've dated, where I say, "In the US, if we like each other, we have sex quickly. It's good this way." Then the girl says something to the effect of, "In Russia, a girl who does this is not good girl. Only bad girl do this here. It is known". (they didn't really say "it is known", but they might as well have. And I've been watching too much GoT).

(06-09-2014 02:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:I enjoy the process because the girls are usually a pleasure to spend time with

Girls in Poland, Romania, Croatia, and Estonia are a pleasure to spend time with, and they move to sex much faster, and they are often proficient in my language, and their countries are cheaper. Maybe Russian girls have a lower notch count, but I'm not exactly looking for a wife at the moment.

In the US, a girl showing up for a date is a big deal. In Poland, phone numbers were a big deal. In Russia...kissing is the big deal.

It does appear that young Russian women have a lower notch count. But I'm not sure if that translates to trustworthiness. I've yet to date 1 girl here with parents who are still together. Yet they all talk about "serious relations" this and "strong family" that.

I'm no math wiz, but this shit ain't adding up.

Post: #358

Constitution45 and Menace explained it perfectly.Kissing IS A BIG DEAL in some of these places.I was in Minsk a couple weeks ago and after the 1st date I french kissed a girl I met outside church while snapping photos.She was surprised by her actions. Lo' and behold on the second date I find out that she has already told her family and social circle about me.

Things move in a completely different *slow* and relationship-oriented way there which is not bad if one is looking for relationships. For example when I travel overseas (not a big fan of club/night game anymore) taking one's time with an HB 8+ over a week is not something that I loose sleep over. My motto is quality always over quantity.

Post: #359

(06-09-2014 10:25 PM)TripleG Wrote:  Constitution45 and Menace explained it perfectly.Kissing IS A BIG DEAL in some of these places.I was in Minsk a couple weeks ago and after the 1st date I french kissed a girl I met outside church while snapping photos.She was surprised by her actions. Lo' and behold on the second date I find out that she has already told her family and social circle about me.

Things move in a completely different *slow* and relationship-oriented way there which is not bad if one is looking for relationships. For example when I travel overseas (not a big fan of club/night game anymore) taking one's time with an HB 8+ over a week is not something that I loose sleep over. My motto is quality always over quantity.

Post: #360

(06-09-2014 10:25 PM)TripleG Wrote:  Constitution45 and Menace explained it perfectly.Kissing IS A BIG DEAL in some of these places.I was in Minsk a couple weeks ago and after the 1st date I french kissed a girl I met outside church while snapping photos.She was surprised by her actions. Lo' and behold on the second date I find out that she has already told her family and social circle about me.

Things move in a completely different *slow* and relationship-oriented way there which is not bad if one is looking for relationships. For example when I travel overseas (not a big fan of club/night game anymore) taking one's time with an HB 8+ over a week is not something that I loose sleep over. My motto is quality always over quantity.

Amen brother

Post: #361

I met a girl at a bar over the weekend while she was with her friend. After talking to her for about 90 minutes, they both invited me to the friends house for tea and cookies. I balked, because I knew there was no chance for sex (they were sober and I had no wingman that could occupy the friend), but my polite refusal was lost in translation and next thing I know I was in a cab to the friend's apartment.

The friend made tea and presented a platter of chocolate, cookies, berries, and fruit. I felt like I was in a Middle Eastern household. We talked (in Russian) for quite some well while I squeezed in a touch here or there on my girl. When I left, she walked me outside to the cab. I went for the kiss but she declined in a "maybe next time" kind of refusal. I spent about 3 hours with her total.

Two days later, we met in the square and walked to a pizza restaurant. It took her about 90 minutes to warm up to where we were touching a bit. I fed her some carrot cake in a romantic gesture. Drinking was not on the table so there was nowhere else to go but my apartment, which coincidentally was located 3 minutes away. She refused my first invitation for tea but I persisted and she came inside.

In my apartment, she immediately turned to stone. This is a somewhat common occurence and I knew that she'd relax after 15 minutes or so. But this didn't happen. She nearly refused to sit next to me and had nothing to say, even though I hadn't even tried anything yet.

I eventually put my hand on her back and stroked her hair a bit but she didn't seem to appreciate that. I put her hand on my knee saying "It's okay if you touch me," but she quickly removed it.

"I thought I was just coming over for tea."

"You really thought that?" I replied.

"Yes, only tea. And I thought you only wanted to be friends."

"Where did you get that idea? I tried to kiss you the other night. Friends don't try to kiss each other."

She had no reply to this. My penis was soft and I was losing interest. I started messing around on the laptop while she sat silently.

"I don't want sex. I just wanted tea." she said.

"That's fine. If you don't want to touch me right now and kiss me then there is obviously no connection."

Then she rattled off another excuse, something along the lines of "I have some baggage from a previous relationship."

"Well I don't have any baggage. I don't have a wife or kids. I'm free right now, but I guess you are not."

"Maybe not," she said.

"Well that's your problem. I don't want to be with someone who isn't open. I'm open so the girl has to be open too." It's just a turn-off to have to explain things like this before any intimacy has occurred. It's boring drama, a waste of energy.

I said, "I was having a nice time tonight and now the situation is awkward and cold. This is your choice. Do whatever you want." I wished my Russian was better to say "This is your doing" instead of "choice".

She called a cab and I started to download the new episode of Game Of Thrones.

"What are you doing?" she asked.

"I'm downloading a show. After you leave I will watch it and relax."

I displayed no anger of bitterness. I sincerely was not hurt because I was satisfied by the pizza and enjoyed the hours of Russian practice. I was just surprised to be getting resistance at the touching stage when a makeout would have been the natural thing to do.

"I hope I did not hurt you," she said.

"I think I will find a way to survive," I smiled.

The taxi called and I escorted her to door. She stared at me with a sad face, but I had decided that I absolutely was not going to make a move. She grabbed my hand. I still did nothing as she continued to stare for what seemed like a minute. Then she lunged at me and started kissing me passionately. I was taken aback by this but responded quickly as the male passion program needs little warm-up. Then she said, "I want to see you again."

"You sure you don't want to stay a little while longer? We can talk."

"No I must go, goodbye."

I probably could have gotten her to stay if I was more methodical about it, but there's no way I would have banged. She sent me a text with more girl drama stuff about wanting to be honest and so forth.

I have no doubt that if I hold the course, I could bang it by date four, but based on her quality, that doesn't seem like a fair deal. She's no prettier than easier girls from other countries that don't rattle off a bunch of excuses in my apartment after we have spent 6 hours together. I've had to eject from a lot of situations in Siberia when girls signaled they would take longer to put out than I thought it was worth. These aren't 9's I'm dealing with, and the weird thing is a Russian 6 is no easier than an 8. I think this is why Ukrainian/Russian men have such high standards (uglier girls aren't easier).

If this is how Russian girls really are then it will not work, and I'll be surprised if I'm still in this country in July. I just can't see the comparative advantage. Perhaps I have too much casual sexual experience to appreciate this type of relationship-minded woman.

Post: #362

I don't full understand the concept of your problem.
Lately youve often talked about mini relationships and almost settling down to some extent...finding the good girls and whatnot.
You move to a place far of the beaten path, where its assumed that you have no status.
Youre just the new guy in town.
American girls are all bitchy sluts that fuck on a dime and have no class

But your flustered because a nice russian girl didnt want to give it up on the second date to a guy she only met the same week?
What was the point of going to this city? what were you expecting?

I feel like...spending all that time learning russian, wasnt so you could hop into a city and get easy sex.
You learn a language for a more long term stay and advantage.

Post: #363

(06-10-2014 06:53 AM)Sourcecode Wrote:  I don't full understand the concept of your problem.
Lately youve often talked about mini relationships and almost settling down to some extent...finding the good girls and whatnot.
You move to a place far of the beaten path, where its assumed that you have no status.
Youre just the new guy in town.
American girls are all bitchy sluts that fuck on a dime and have no class

But your flustered because a nice russian girl didnt want to give it up on the second date to a guy she only met the same week?

I'm a bit confused by your problem too Roosh... You're in a small city in Siberia, wasn't it foreseeable that the girls there would be hard to fuck? I have no experience with Russia, but in traditional countries girls are way easier in the big cities. That's just common sense. If Russia is a traditional country too then it's pretty clear what your solution is.

Post: #364

^^ I think you guys are missing an important point - these girls are not hot enough to justify the wait until later dates and continued efforts on his part. This traverses all countries, why would you put in all this time an effort on a 6?

Roosh two things: 1) Was all that conversation in Russian? If so, impressive. 2) Don't give up on Russia based on one city, and at least until you try Moscow. I think you saw how different Kharkiv was from Kiev and Odessa. It would be very hard for someone to convince me to visit Tomsk again, whereas it would take very little to get me to move to Moscow.

Post: #365

(06-09-2014 02:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:I enjoy the process because the girls are usually a pleasure to spend time with

Girls in Poland, Romania, Croatia, and Estonia are a pleasure to spend time with, and they move to sex much faster, and they are often proficient in my language, and their countries are cheaper. Maybe Russian girls have a lower notch count, but I'm not exactly looking for a wife at the moment.

A good Turkish mate, with experience in the Holly Slavic Trinity as a Russian language student (level 2 ТРКИ) would comment me that while he enjoyed his time there, the quantity and quality of girls, the easiness to apporach them the effort/reward ratios were more possitive for him in Marmaris, Alanya, Antalya, Side or any other spot on the Turkish Riviera.

While field factor is a key factor when gaming any girl it seems to be even more important when we it comes with girls from more patriarchal or conservative societies. That's why he would always say that when he wants to get married he would go Ukraine or Russia find a 9 traditional tatar girl and bring her back home.

Has anybody considered playing girls using as a neutral stadium top russian tourism destinations like Hurghada, Sharm el Sheikh or Hammamet ?

Post: #366

(06-10-2014 06:13 AM)Roosh Wrote:  The taxi called and I escorted her to door. She stared at me with a sad face, but I had decided that I absolutely was not going to make a move. She grabbed my hand. I still did nothing as she continued to stare for what seemed like a minute. Then she lunged at me and started kissing me passionately. I was taken aback by this but responded quickly as the male passion program needs little warm-up. Then she said, "I want to see you again."

"You sure you don't want to stay a little while longer? We can talk."

"No I must go, goodbye."

It may have been a case of her not being prepared. Most Russian girls won't let you see them naked unless they're freshly shaven, even if they shaved only a week ago.

Sometimes they'll say they have to go home for dinner, to meet friends, to study, etc. An hour later they may call to say that they're coming back. If that happens, you know for sure that sex is on the table.


I also thought (based on one of the rooshv.com posts) that you were shifting your focus towards higher quality and fewer notches. However, those words are very subjective - maybe you were thinking along the lines of one per week, while others were thinking one per month.

Another tip I can give about Russian girls - it isn't so much about how many hours you've spent on dates, but rather the number of days she has known you. If you keep the dates short and spread them over a week or 10 days, you'll probably get the same return with less time invested. In the days where you don't meet in person, you can call or send a message to keep her warm.
When I'm pipelining, I keep all of that in a spreadsheet so I know when to make calls and plan dates... but that's just me - I'm a data guy.

Edit: I would also agree with Slubu - Moscow is a fast city and much more suited to quick bangs.

Post: #367

(06-10-2014 07:56 AM)slubu Wrote:  ^^ I think you guys are missing an important point - these girls are not hot enough to justify the wait until later dates and continued efforts on his part. This traverses all countries, why would you put in all this time an effort on a 6?

No one's debating that

(06-10-2014 07:56 AM)slubu Wrote:  2) Don't give up on Russia based on one city, and at least until you try Moscow. I think you saw how different Kharkiv was from Kiev and Odessa. It would be very hard for someone to convince me to visit Tomsk again, whereas it would take very little to get me to move to Moscow.

Sourcecode can speak for himself about what he said, but the point I was making is the same point you're making slubu. I'm confused as to why Roosh decided to begin his Russian adventure with a 3rd tier in Siberia in the first place... Unless it was a popping college town doing that makes zero sense to me.

Post: #368

(06-10-2014 08:19 AM)Deluge Wrote:  Sourcecode can speak for himself about what he said, but the point I was making is the same point you're making slubu. I'm confused as to why Roosh decided to begin his Russian adventure with a 3rd tier in Siberia in the first place... Unless it was a popping college town doing that makes zero sense to me.

I was under the impression that Tomsk was a college town. Generally going to a college town in late Spring is a great time to go.

Post: #369

I don't think that Roosh is getting away from what he had previously said his focus is. Ultimately, I think Roosh always considers the "cost per bang" equation, albeit with the additional variable of attractiveness. He isn't saying that he wants to compromise quality for a quicker bang. It actually appears to be the opposite; in other places, he was putting in the kind of work that he is putting in with these Russian broads (sometimes less) for higher quality girls. Why put in the time and effort for a 6 looks, 8 personality girl when he could go back to Ukraine, Romania, or even Poland and pull an 8 looks 7-8 personality girl with the same effort?

Post: #370

Quote:Unless it was a popping college town doing that makes zero sense to me.

Not a lot of things will make sense when you're high on drugs like you were two weeks ago, but yes, Tomsk is considered one of the biggest college towns in Russia based on per capita population. Based on my experience in other college towns, I determined it to be worth a visit. The reward however, it much less based on the same amount of effort (if not more).

Post: #371

Quote:Another tip I can give about Russian girls - it isn't so much about how many hours you've spent on dates, but rather the number of days she has known you. If you keep the dates short and spread them over a week or 10 days, you'll probably get the same return with less time invested.

I think you nailed it there.

With American sluts you can build intimacy with time on one meeting. They will even make comments about how much 'time you spent together' or 'it feels like we always known each' other BS because of long time spent.

I find with FSU girls, since they use logic, that short sweet meeting is best and just spread them out. Many have rules, like they wait 30 days, etc, so there is no point seeing them more often. In their head they go for the Duration since 1st date to present date.

I guess it makes sense if you consider they pursue relationships. In their head it makes it feel like they are in a relationship if they saw you 4 times in 1 month as oppose to 4 times in one week.


Unfortunately FSU girls put potential LTR prospects on the slow tract, hopeless romantics ((.

A few things to consider though:

a. Although it might be best to spread it out, making contact is important because they tend to be VERY NEEDY. They will say shit like ' why did you wait to call me?', etc. I have had to deal with those shit tests my whole life. I went from thinking it was a shit test to just plain NEEDINESS. They have that princess syndrome of expecting to be pursued.

b. DaveR is correct girl might not be ready at the moment. Not shaving, period , etc. They tend to have it ALL planed when they know it will happen regardless of their resistance or not. Makes me wonder who is the one fucking whom on those nights!

We are talking about non club girls of course.

Post: #372

Quote:1) Was all that conversation in Russian? If so, impressive

Yes, though I cleaned up the grammar. My speaking is somewhat conversational to convey basic ideas and stories, but my comprehension is atrocious. I usually don't understand more than 25% of what people tell me. It's the exactly opposite problem that people here have (they can understand much more English than they speak).

One of the problems is that Russia has a lot of synonyms. There can be five words for one thing, so if they don't use the one of five that I know, I'll miss it. It's comical actually. I can launch into a 5 minute story about my travels and then when the girl responds with one sentence containing a few words, I can be completely stumped.

Post: #373

(06-10-2014 06:13 AM)Roosh Wrote:  a Russian 6 is no easier than an 8. I think this is why Ukrainian/Russian men have such high standards (uglier girls aren't easier)..

100% my experience as well.

The quality to effort ratio is definitely out of whack in Moscow too.

Post: #374

(06-10-2014 11:22 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:1) Was all that conversation in Russian? If so, impressive

Yes, though I cleaned up the grammar. My speaking is somewhat conversational to convey basic ideas and stories, but my comprehension is atrocious. I usually don't understand more than 25% of what people tell me. It's the exactly opposite problem that people here have (they can understand much more English than they speak).

One of the problems is that Russia has a lot of synonyms. There can be five words for one thing, so if they don't use the one of five that I know, I'll miss it. It's comical actually. I can launch into a 5 minute story about my travels and then when the girl responds with one sentence containing a few words, I can be completely stumped.

1000% agree. I'm constantly telling people to slow down and speak to me as if I am a small child (i.e. simply). Doesn't usually work.

Although I will say that I probably do understand better than I speak (poorly on either account), but at least when I am listening I will often hear words that I know, yet always forget or slaughter when I try to produce it myself.

Post: #375

Quote:The quality to effort ratio is definitely out of whack in Moscow too.

So focus on really pretty girls but not TOO pretty or else she's expecting the oligarch treatment?