Post: #1

I've had a long interest in spirituality and metaphysics and recently came across the pagan revival concept. Basically, it advocates that people revert to their ancestral traditions, those practiced prior to the conversion to Christianity (or Islam, as the case may have it). This means Iranians revisit Zoroastrianism, Latin peoples revisit the Roman gods, native peoples of the Americas revisit their traditions, and northern Europeans revisit the gods of Celtic or Norse legend. Seeing as the Abrahamic faiths have led civilization to its current condition, the old ways can be seen as a better alternative. The above video details the Scandinavian variety of pagan revival.

I was curious what the wise men of the forum might think about the subject. I find it interesting and worth looking into. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Post: #2

As those awful Abrahamic faiths have led to the current conditions of flying around in metal birds, reading your thoughts remotely on a tiny glowing screen while sucking the delicious juice of an ethiopian mountain berry, having cured of previously incurable diseases several times in my life, I'm good thanks mate!

Post: #3

^ I don't have much knowledge on this topic, I like this purely on the basis of a new member starting an interesting thread, that hasn't been rehashed before like we're seeing with the glut of newbie posts.

I would always advise people to learn about their ancestors' culture, as it can help put one's own family and personality in perspective. Though I wouldn't actively follow any older religions, but more so read it like you would stories from the Greeks.

You could argue that if you continued to go back farther and farther, these pre-Abrahamic religions would also disappear, so it's hard to say what is the true foundation of a group, but information would be spotty at that point.

Post: #4

Interesting topic Brian. Its interesting to note that there is a Hellenistic Reconstructionist movement in Greece. However, it is important to note that the original interpretations of all 3 Abrahamic faiths were in favor of traditional and stable societies, interpretations which existed until ~80-100 years ago. While I agree that learning about pagan religions is an excellent source for learning about your ancestors, I wouldn't necessarily agree that they are better for society than Abrahamic ones. Remember that the Celts encouraged promiscuity among women. This undoubtedly corrupted their society.

Rawgod - Abrahamic faiths weren't necessarily responsible for planes, computers and globalization. Remember that the Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Indians, Persians and Arabs all made significant scientific discoveries and were already trading much before Abrahamic religions came around. Who knows what they could have achieved if it wasn't for invasions and societal decay?

Post: #5

In the same vein as above, unfortunately I couldn't find a summary video like the previous one.

Post: #6

Eh.

Revert back to sacrificing animals? Revert back to believing in pantheons of anthropomorphic Gods? Revert back to religions that were mostly explanations for poorly understood meteorological phenomena?

I don't think so.

There is some vague appeal to the idea of going back to the roots of your culture, but I don't really think that justifies bringing back belief in mythological horned creatures and stuff like that.

Now, you could say that Christianity is just as superstitious as the old Pagan customs, and I'd be inclined to agree with you. Among the newer religions, Christianity is sort of peculiar in that it retains a sort of Pagan flavor; man-Gods, the trinity, saints, etc. But I mean, if you don't like that stuff, you can just convert to Islam, which is truly monotheistic and has a non-anthropomorphic God. If Islam is still too superstitious for you, then there's always buddhism.

At the same time, I think this discussion is kind of irrelevant, because abrahamic religion is dying out anyway. In the long run, this new secular human rights pseudo-religion will become dominant and "religion" will go the way of Paganism. If you want to get back to your culture's traditional customs, just follow traditional practices and argue for traditional morality. You don't need Zeus or Odin to help you do that.

Post: #7

Look at the tattoos.

Look at the piercings.

Look at the worship of nature.

Look at the widespread use of mind altering substances.

Look at the hedonistic approach to sex.

Look at the Winter Solstice (which is what a Christmas devoid of Jesus has reverted to).

The Pagans are back. And they are us. :-)

Post: #8

(05-23-2014 05:57 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Look at the tattoos.

Look at the piercings.

Look at the worship of nature.

Look at the widespread use of mind altering substances.

Look at the hedonistic approach to sex.

Look at the Winter Solstice (which is what a Christmas devoid of Jesus has reverted to).

The Pagans are back. And they are us. :-)

Holy shit dude... You may be onto something here. Our modern customs really do resemble Paganism in everything except the formal worship of the Gods.

Post: #9

Stoicism is great pre-christian "philosophy" or way of life that is really life changing. I would really recommend it.

Post: #10

(05-23-2014 06:00 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(05-23-2014 05:57 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Look at the tattoos.

Look at the piercings.

Look at the worship of nature.

Look at the widespread use of mind altering substances.

Look at the hedonistic approach to sex.

Look at the Winter Solstice (which is what a Christmas devoid of Jesus has reverted to).

The Pagans are back. And they are us. :-)

Holy shit dude... You may be onto something here. Our modern customs really do resemble Paganism in everything except the formal worship of the Gods.

Oh, they have gods all right. I have witnessed their praises and dedication to their gods.

One of their gods is represented by this emblem:

Post: #11

For everyone interested in ancient spirituality I recommend Kaballah - the study of original Torah - the root and explanation of all Abrahamic religions.

Kaballah is the true essence of Abrahamic religions. It is very red pill, no bullshit and practical but very very complex. All contemporary Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are it's blue pill derivatives transformed to appeal to broader masses.

You can study the old pagan systems, too it will reveal some insights, but actually believing any pagan system in this day and age is pure posing. Go and worship Steve Jobs or Obama if you want to be an authentic neo-pagan. For true spirituality, there is Torah and maybe also Vedas.

Post: #12

(05-26-2014 03:11 AM)Mage Wrote:  For everyone interested in ancient spirituality I recommend Kaballah - the study of original Torah - the root and explanation of all Abrahamic religions.

Kaballah is the true essence of Abrahamic religions. It is very red pill, no bullshit and practical but very very complex. All contemporary Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are it's blue pill derivatives transformed to appeal to broader masses.

You can study the old pagan systems, too it will reveal some insights, but actually believing any pagan system in this day and age is pure posing. Go and worship Steve Jobs or Obama if you want to be an authentic neo-pagan. For true spirituality, there is Torah and maybe also Vedas.

I also recommend this. Google Kabbalah Tree of Life

Also this is a pre-Christian religion that has some similar overtones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

Post: #13

Just realized you already mentioned Zoroastrianism OP. My bad.

Post: #14

The problem is there is no tradition to go back to since the pagans were destroyed by the mainstream mass religions. So what you get instead is a lot of new age silliness that poses as the real thing. One possibility is to practice Stoicism, which was popular in the Roman Empire, and there is still some of the original writings available.

Post: #15

Maybe we should go back to the religion that was the basis of the Abrahamic religions (and much of the Greek too) - these people kicked a lot of butt...
Perhaps something was lost in the changes

OSIRIS
   

ISIS (mother with child - becomes Mary with baby jesus)
   

The Trinity - osiris-Isis-Horus - father-son-holy ghost (Isis becomes a bird that flies - in Christianity - female is removed -becomes a ghost)
   

Post: #16

The parallels between the Egyptian gods and the Abrahamic religions are very interesting. One can definitely see how Moses was highly influenced by the Egypt he hailed from. For anyone interested:








I don't want to start a major religious debate, I just think it's interesting food for thought

Post: #17

(05-30-2014 08:11 PM)Brian Boru Wrote:  I don't want to start a major religious debate, I just think it's interesting food for thought

There's nothing to debate really. Its historical fact.

Even the Bible admits it. Moses was raised in Pharaoh's house ! i.e. as an Egyptian with Egyptian religion.

10 commandments are the 42 negative declarations of MAAT - but shortened.

Circumcision - Egyptian (African)

Notion that after death the soul goes to Heaven or Hell depending on what happens when your soul is judged.

Isis giving birth to Horus even though Osiris is dead when she has sex with him = immaculate conception.

ankh becomes the cross

etc..... theres much much more.

Post: #18

I am curious about this though, did other of European, and particularly Northern European heritage, find Christianity utterly confusing and irrelevant as a child? I could never as a child - or adult - identify in any way with the stories of the Old or New Testament. It held no meaning to me and why should it, it is the stories of people who lived in a strange country far away, in an arid desert of warring tribes.

On the other hand Asatru or Wodanism is the collective stories of my heritage. They describe the same mountains and fjords as I've seen and my ancestors. I was always as a child fascinated by the stories of Thor, Odin, Loke etc and could easily identify.

I believe that Christianity was in many ways the greatest tragedy of the European people. It set Europe back for centuries as it descended into religious tyranny. Destroyed the heritage of the great Roman empire, destroyed a rich pagan culture, destroyed science.

The Enlightenment Period, which elevated Europe to global leadership was a return to pagan and classical ideas in art and science. If not for this return to the great romantic ideas of paganism, Europe might have been another middle east stuck in religious fervor.

I am firmly on the side of Nietzsche in that I see Christianity as the origin of marxism and slave morality and would be very happy to see Christianity destroyed in Europe and a return to pre-christian lore and tradition. The only problem is that marxism is more likely to be the replacement religion.

Post: #19

I'm currently reading The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall.
I cannot find a link to the downloadable pdf at the moment, but I digress. The book is quite fascinating. I can't comment hugely on it because I'm about a third of the way through, and frankly, there's a hell of a lot to cover.

It's always been my firm belief that Abraham-centric world history concepts were faulty. A lot of "biblical history" is laid to rest like wastepaper in this book, but because the book is Masonic in origin, it's not without it's biases.

There is a book I read about two months ago called Ego & Archetype, which I found extremely illuminating. The author hits the ball out of the park in 90% of this book. The endings a little flimsy but it really doesn't matter.

Edinger uses the concept of the collective unconscious to shine light on the walls of the soul itself. He analyzes all kinds of alchemical concepts and their relation to the human psyche and spirit. When I read this book, it resonated with me in some of the same ways that the manosphere has. In fact, I believe this book led me to the manosphere. There is stuff in here that is absolute, in my opinion. What really floored me was how redpill it was. This book got me past moping over a dead LTR, and provided way more motivation than empty praise and "support" ever could.

Post: #20

Berserk, in short, yes they did. The conversion to Christianity was by and large not a peaceful or willing process. Look into Charlemagne and the Saxon Wars for example. In the Baltic, a literal Crusade was fought against Lithuania (which was once a much larger country), in order to convert them, as they were the last pagan holdout in that region. The folks at Red Ice have produced some interesting shows on the subject, with an emphasis on Scandinavian religion as it is a Swedish operation.









Also, Joseph P. Farrell has done some interesting work regarding the origins of Abrahamic religions and the contradictions that seemingly were purposefully engineered into them, and the implications it has for modern politics. American Christian support for Israel for example. Very interesting stuff in my opinion.

Post: #21

(05-22-2014 09:04 PM)Brian Boru Wrote:  Basically, it advocates that people revert to their ancestral traditions, those practiced prior to the conversion to Christianity (or Islam, as the case may have it). This means Iranians revisit Zoroastrianism, Latin peoples revisit the Roman gods, native peoples of the Americas revisit their traditions, and northern Europeans revisit the gods of Celtic or Norse legend. Seeing as the Abrahamic faiths have led civilization to its current condition, the old ways can be seen as a better alternative. The above video details the Scandinavian variety of pagan revival.

I was curious what the wise men of the forum might think about the subject. I find it interesting and worth looking into. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Christianity is the original religion, and ("Eastern") Orthodoxy is true Christianity, there nothing is older than it, it predates the foundation of the world and space and time.

As far as the neo-pagans, those religions are dead, and those who try to revive them are just mockeries of the past. They're like a bunch of LARPers out in the woods, pretending to be clerics of pagan gods and cast magic spells, but they don't really believe it, not the way Russians believe in Orthodoxy, or the Jihadis in Islam.

Post: #22

(12-20-2015 05:42 AM)Byzantium Wrote:  Christianity is the original religion, and ("Eastern") Orthodoxy is true Christianity, there nothing is older than it, it predates the foundation of the world and space and time.

Such an assertion carries with it the logical conundrum that a religion based on Christ could exist before Christ.

Quote:As far as the neo-pagans, those religions are dead, and those who try to revive them are just mockeries of the past. They're like a bunch of LARPers out in the woods, pretending to be clerics of pagan gods and cast magic spells, but they don't really believe it, not the way Russians believe in Orthodoxy, or the Jihadis in Islam.

These seem to be strange judgments: people are right to practice the religions that they find most compelling. Whether done by 1 person, 10 people or 1 billion people it makes no difference, the purpose of ritual is to evoke and invoke the eternal. And anyway when it comes to historical lineage neopaganism isn't much different from churches founded in the last half-century (in the US there are many): they're new traditions based on old antecedents.

That aside, how can you be so sure that neo-pagans don't believe the things they claim to believe?

Post: #23

There is an interestimg theory on the origins of peganism and pantheism, you can read more on it by googling "saturn death cult". Very interesting meterial.