Post: #1

Okay. For some time I actually didn't think "Game" section will be useful for me, cause I thought it doesn't transpire well to girls from FSU countries. But I am interesting to hear what much more experienced players think about my last night.

You can read here about me - /thread-35152.html
I would say 2nd paragraph it's very important regarding my girls range. I am at Lviv once again, this time spending here 2-3 weeks.

I've met a girl last night - mer her few weeks ago for the 1st time and I know her because of social circle. We exchaged numbers and had frequent contact via Vkontakte. She was willing to do some minor stuff for me regarding apartment renting, I brought her some food products from Poland (cheap) which are difficult to obtain in Ukraine and we agreed to meet last night.

She was coming straight after her dancing training, but she came back home and put a great effort in presenting herself. She's 30 and I would guess in 6,5-8 range, no kids and no husband (I know it for the fact). She also has a very good job in IT business for Lviv standards and because of her sports involvment I was really into making it work.

We went into one bar and spent nice 2-3 hours there together. Drunk some pretty good alcohol and after slow beginning, she became much more flirtatious with me and I replied with kino, which got zero resistance, got also a few kisses too and I thought I am on right track. She was aften taking initiative in talking and asking questions (didn't consider it particularly dangerous shit tests), which is quite unusual for Ukrainian girl. We had a very nice conversation about various topics for majority of the night and she was clearly enjoying her time with me. I don't have my place ready here yet (Yeah, I know) and she replied with telling me her is occupied by her femelae cousin (whatever). But we already were discussing some stuff we want to do next (like I told her my homemade pizza is good and she automatically replied, "I will have to visit your apartment")

So we decided to go to disco. In first one (high end place for local standards) we weren't let in because she was told she's too drunk. So we decided to hit another one, but in meantime went into 24 hours McDonald's. She ordered some small portion of food and 2 local guys (I would say average for UA standards) started to talk to her. She quickly started to talk back to then, then they've ordered some more food and kept talking to her. I've tried lightly (too lightly?) to move her out of it, but I was unsuccessful. They even didn't start their kino too quickly...

Ive quickly lost a contact with her and despite my attempts of getting it back (conversation with her being very close to her) I wasn't able to do it. So after some time, with this two guys basically going with us/her (and talking to her in Ukrainian, which I understand a little bit, but it's difficult to cock block by me), I told her let's let re-group and do something together tomorrow and today, go home. She wasn't listening and I've decided it's enough, told her "good bye" (based on our conversation/time spent together I would say she needs me more than I need her) and left back to the hotel.

I know it's "numbers game" and I don't want to sound like "Oneitis" guy, but for a newbie in foreign country and for someone who put a lot of effort into it it's still a relatively big disappointment. Any advices would be appreciated, especially from guys with FSU experience. I didn't expect this to be ONS, but things were going extremely well, so I am very disappointed with the way how it finished.

Thanks.

PS. I am sorry, I thought I am putting this in "Newbie" section. Hopefully Roosh or mods can move it.

Post: #2

Two aspects of your night stand out strong in your story:

"So we decided to go to disco. In first one we weren't let in because she was told she's too drunk."

"She ordered some small portion of food and 2 local guys (I would say average for UA standards) started to talk to her."

These were both avoidable and Newbie mistakes, but that's okay. I fucked up a night out with a Miss (Insert Major State) smoking 5'9" blonde because I bounced to too many venues and it killed the night.

Here's what you do so next time this doesn't happen:

1. You said she was drunk, to the point the disco wouldn't let her in. This screams that you should have LED the date and taken her immediately to a hotel. I understand the logistics were fucked up, but you said your apartment wasn't ready. What do you mean by this? Did you not have keys yet, or was it just messy with no furniture? If you had keys take her and fuck her on the floor. I've done it before and girls could give two fucks if it's furnished or not, especially if you just moved in.

2. These guys successfully AMOG'd you. I've done it many times where I'll swoop in on a girl at the club, party or restaurant and straight steal the chick away. This can be avoided by you having strong FRAME and LEADING. The moment you spotted the two guys eyeing her you should have grabbed the food to go and bounced.

Even if they approached and started to talk to her, do this: Smile, nod, grab her hand and walk out. When a girl is THAT drunk she's going to follow whoever has the STRONGEST influence on her at that very MOMENT.

You messed up by letting them invade your space and use their FRAME to take over the situation. Now if she threw a fit and started bitching at you, then just walk away, but it doesn't sound like that's what happened.

I'd bet a $1,000 she got double teamed by those two players after you left. Just keeping it real.

Remember, that a strong FRAME and ALWAYS LEADING is key on dates. Be the man who's large and in charge, grab her hand and bounce.

Post: #3

I don't have deal for apartment ready yet, I am spending 1st night in hostel, probably tomorrow will move in to place of my choosing.

I appreciate advice, I just got caught in "lead her away from situation" against "don't look needy (maybe lacking a better word here)and jelaous" (this kind of stuff is too blurred for me at this moment) stuff.

Post: #4

Christian, how does grabbing her hand and walking away not scream beta? "I'm afraid these 2 guys will run better game than me, I see they're talking to her and she's responding, so I'm just gonna physically remove myself and the girl from the situation". Wouldn't it be better to demonstrate you can keep frame by dominating the conversation?

Post: #5

(05-16-2014 07:23 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  Christian, how does grabbing her hand and walking away not scream beta? "I'm afraid these 2 guys will run better game than me, I see they're talking to her and she's responding, so I'm just gonna physically remove myself and the girl from the situation". Wouldn't it be better to demonstrate you can keep frame by dominating the conversation?

At least for me it was difficult to dominate a conversation when both sides can talk in a language you don't understand well.

But what I can say - I had a first true AWALT moment after becoming red pillish.

Post: #6

(05-16-2014 07:23 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  Christian, how does grabbing her hand and walking away not scream beta? "I'm afraid these 2 guys will run better game than me, I see they're talking to her and she's responding, so I'm just gonna physically remove myself and the girl from the situation". Wouldn't it be better to demonstrate you can keep frame by dominating the conversation?

Let's back up to caveman times to answer this question:

If you're alone with 'your' woman and 2 caveman with clubs approach you, should you leave with her or fight against the odds?

Being Alpha doesn't mean that you choose confrontation, but instead that you use your brain to choose the BEST option.

There's no shame in avoiding situations that may affect your progress with the girl.

If you're at a club with a date and you get word that Leonardo Dicaprio and Colin Farrell are about to walk in and you know that your date has it bad for Leo (from what she's said with her fantasies), the best move would be to bounce.

Why make the Game more difficult than it has to be?

It's protecting your 'assets' for the night.

Lastly, it's also based on experience. He stated that he's a 'Newbie'.

When you're a Newbie it's best to take the route that doesn't offer as many roadblocks.

When you have experience, then you could deal with the situation differently if you choose to.

Personally, I would have waited until they approached and then AMOG'd the hell outa them, which is easy to do when you know what buttons to push with other males, and then bounced. Or maybe, I would have done exactly what I told OP, based on my mood.

Post: #7

We exaggerate the beta/alpha thing here, although that is one way of interpreting it it could also be seen his way as leading to a more favorable situation.

Post: #8

I get you, I'm just not sure if she's not gonna be able to see through what you're doing. If you grab her hand when you see her talking to dudes she's gonna think you're possessive and jealous. If you and her both heard that Leo is coming to the club, she gets visibly excited, and you "suddenly" suggest to bounce she will be able to tell why. I think stuff like that makes you look weak in her eyes. Yeah it's hard for a newbie to handle AMOG. Shit, it's hard for anyone. But I think it's an important aspect of Frame control.

Post: #9

(05-16-2014 07:23 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  Christian, how does grabbing her hand and walking away not scream beta? "I'm afraid these 2 guys will run better game than me, I see they're talking to her and she's responding, so I'm just gonna physically remove myself and the girl from the situation". Wouldn't it be better to demonstrate you can keep frame by dominating the conversation?

I think the fact that the girl was drunk means your primary goal is to separate from the situation with girl in hand. She's probably not going to remember the encounter clearly, so there aren't style points to be had here, just risk avoidance. Also being inebriated, she's more likely to want to speak her native tongue, where the OP can't really compete with native dudes yet. In my experience, taking a drunk girl by the hand and leading her away from other guys is almost always a good idea, just to avoid a potential feeding frenzy.

Post: #10

(05-16-2014 07:41 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  I get you, I'm just not sure if she's not gonna be able to see through what you're doing. If you grab her hand when you see her talking to dudes she's gonna think you're possessive and jealous. If you and her both heard that Leo is coming to the club, she gets visibly excited, and you "suddenly" suggest to bounce she will be able to tell why. I think stuff like that makes you look weak in her eyes. Yeah it's hard for a newbie to handle AMOG. Shit, it's hard for anyone. But I think it's an important aspect of Frame control.

I stated, grab her hand when you see them "eyeing her". This is part of always being aware of your surroundings.

I also stated if YOU hear that Leo is coming; not her. You get a text or security whispers in your ear.

A girl's perception of you is in relation to how you compose yourself, your swagger and your game.

If she's chomping on a Big Mac, you notice the guys with hardons in the corner and you casually say "Let's bounce, this place is boring", WITHOUT staring back at the guys and making a scene, there's nothing to tell her that you are insecure or avoiding a situation.

Also, depending on the vibe of the guys it may be for your own personal safety to bounce. Recently in Vegas when I was there, a guy was stabbed to death outside of a McDonalds because he got into it with another guy over a fucking cell phone.

Better to be a smart man then a dead 'hero'. There's a time and place for everything and based on OP being a Newbie and in a different country where he's not proficient in the native language, the smart move would have been to bounce.

Post: #11

(05-16-2014 07:23 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  Christian, how does grabbing her hand and walking away not scream beta? "I'm afraid these 2 guys will run better game than me, I see they're talking to her and she's responding, so I'm just gonna physically remove myself and the girl from the situation". Wouldn't it be better to demonstrate you can keep frame by dominating the conversation?

Yeah what do you wanna do, they're two guys and they speak Ukrainian - it would have been be very hard to dominate the conversation. Also, it's really annoying having to engage and entertain some random guys when hanging out with a girl. The situation might even escalate to a physical confrontation in the worst case. Just get outta there.

Some time ago I did exactly that. I was at a bar and two guys started hitting on the girl I was with. Should I have started a pissing contest with those two clowns? Fuck that. I just grabbed the girl's hand and bounced from there. Actually, the two guys were part of an even larger group. Dominating situations like that is possible, but hard, and sometimes it just doesn't work. It doesn't necessarily have something to do with your alphaness, sometime the group is just too big, or you don't speak the language very well, or some other factor.

Post: #12

(05-16-2014 07:05 PM)whoishe Wrote:  Okay. For some time I actually didn't think "Game" section will be useful for me, cause I thought it doesn't transpire well to girls from FSU countries. But I am interesting to hear what much more experienced players think about my last night.

You can read here about me - /thread-35152.html
I would say 2nd paragraph it's very important regarding my girls range. I am at Lviv once again, this time spending here 2-3 weeks.

I've met a girl last night - mer her few weeks ago for the 1st time and I know her because of social circle. We exchaged numbers and had frequent contact via Vkontakte. She was willing to do some minor stuff for me regarding apartment renting, I brought her some food products from Poland (cheap) which are difficult to obtain in Ukraine and we agreed to meet last night.

She was coming straight after her dancing training, but she came back home and put a great effort in presenting herself. She's 30 and I would guess in 6,5-8 range, no kids and no husband (I know it for the fact). She also has a very good job in IT business for Lviv standards and because of her sports involvment I was really into making it work.

We went into one bar and spent nice 2-3 hours there together. Drunk some pretty good alcohol and after slow beginning, she became much more flirtatious with me and I replied with kino, which got zero resistance, got also a few kisses too and I thought I am on right track. She was aften taking initiative in talking and asking questions (didn't consider it particularly dangerous shit tests), which is quite unusual for Ukrainian girl. We had a very nice conversation about various topics for majority of the night and she was clearly enjoying her time with me. I don't have my place ready here yet (Yeah, I know) and she replied with telling me her is occupied by her femelae cousin (whatever). But we already were discussing some stuff we want to do next (like I told her my homemade pizza is good and she automatically replied, "I will have to visit your apartment")

So we decided to go to disco. In first one (high end place for local standards) we weren't let in because she was told she's too drunk. So we decided to hit another one, but in meantime went into 24 hours McDonald's. She ordered some small portion of food and 2 local guys (I would say average for UA standards) started to talk to her. She quickly started to talk back to then, then they've ordered some more food and kept talking to her. I've tried lightly (too lightly?) to move her out of it, but I was unsuccessful. They even didn't start their kino too quickly...

Ive quickly lost a contact with her and despite my attempts of getting it back (conversation with her being very close to her) I wasn't able to do it. So after some time, with this two guys basically going with us/her (and talking to her in Ukrainian, which I understand a little bit, but it's difficult to cock block by me), I told her let's let re-group and do something together tomorrow and today, go home. She wasn't listening and I've decided it's enough, told her "good bye" (based on our conversation/time spent together I would say she needs me more than I need her) and left back to the hotel.

I know it's "numbers game" and I don't want to sound like "Oneitis" guy, but for a newbie in foreign country and for someone who put a lot of effort into it it's still a relatively big disappointment. Any advices would be appreciated, especially from guys with FSU experience. I didn't expect this to be ONS, but things were going extremely well, so I am very disappointed with the way how it finished.

Thanks.

PS. I am sorry, I thought I am putting this in "Newbie" section. Hopefully Roosh or mods can move it.

In the game there are few things worse than three guys following one girl around.

Why'd you throw in the towel so easily? You've got to have the killer instinct. To her it seems like you don't have the ancient protector in you.

You have to defend your property. A lot of guys might say- play it cool etc. Well, sometimes you just got to take her by the hand and bounce.

You can't let other guys or her dictate the direction of your night.

Get it together.

Here are some Anti-AMOG tactics. I've done this kind of thing and it works:

Post: #13

(05-16-2014 07:47 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

(05-16-2014 07:41 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  I get you, I'm just not sure if she's not gonna be able to see through what you're doing. If you grab her hand when you see her talking to dudes she's gonna think you're possessive and jealous. If you and her both heard that Leo is coming to the club, she gets visibly excited, and you "suddenly" suggest to bounce she will be able to tell why. I think stuff like that makes you look weak in her eyes. Yeah it's hard for a newbie to handle AMOG. Shit, it's hard for anyone. But I think it's an important aspect of Frame control.

Being perceived as possessive and jealous is not necessarily a bad thing. It's definitely better than being tooled by two random clowns and standing by quietly while they are hitting on your girl.

Post: #14

Killer instinct [youtube]http://youtu.be/zMe0SgrxQxE[youtube/]

Post: #15

Remember that attraction is transferable. This can work for or against you if you don't know what you are doing.

You don't want to buttering her up for other guys. If anything, you want to be those other guys capitalizing on the attraction that some dude got revving inside the girl.

You essentially made their job easier for them and just gave up your nights work for free to some strangers.

Post: #16

Guys - appreciating all the feedback. Thanks.

Post: #17

She simply lost interest in you after you provided the food and the drinks and she did not expect more.She would not enter a hostel,it is always better to stay in apartment or good hotel in Ukraine.They tend to use other guys when they are not sure about you as a means of pressure and teasing.I was in environments with Ukrainian guys and they are less aggressive than polish guys.

Post: #18

(05-17-2014 03:02 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  She simply lost interest in you after you provided the food and the drinks and she did not expect more.She would not enter a hostel,it is always better to stay in apartment or good hotel in Ukraine.They tend to use other guys when they are not sure about you as a means of pressure and teasing.I was in environments with Ukrainian guys and they are less aggressive than polish guys.

I know it looks this way, but I don't think it was true. It would make no sense based on time we talked together via VK, her general money situation, social circle she is plus vibe she gave during our evening and stuff we talked about. I know this girls can "out game" guys very aften and I know it can happen to me of course, but I don't think it was true here.

I didn't even try her to go to my hostel, as I know she wouldn't be allowed.

I am thinking that after 2-3 hours my "game" got weaker, as our date was progressing much qucker and further than I expected.

Last thing - I don't plan to contact her of course, but it will be actually interesting if there will be any follow-up on this whole situation from her. And it will be even more interesting when we both attend the same home party or some kind of event in the future.

Post: #19

(05-16-2014 07:47 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

(05-16-2014 07:41 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  I get you, I'm just not sure if she's not gonna be able to see through what you're doing. If you grab her hand when you see her talking to dudes she's gonna think you're possessive and jealous. If you and her both heard that Leo is coming to the club, she gets visibly excited, and you "suddenly" suggest to bounce she will be able to tell why. I think stuff like that makes you look weak in her eyes. Yeah it's hard for a newbie to handle AMOG. Shit, it's hard for anyone. But I think it's an important aspect of Frame control.

I stated, grab her hand when you see them "eyeing her". This is part of always being aware of your surroundings.

I also stated if YOU hear that Leo is coming; not her. You get a text or security whispers in your ear.

A girl's perception of you is in relation to how you compose yourself, your swagger and your game.

If she's chomping on a Big Mac, you notice the guys with hardons in the corner and you casually say "Let's bounce, this place is boring", WITHOUT staring back at the guys and making a scene, there's nothing to tell her that you are insecure or avoiding a situation.

Also, depending on the vibe of the guys it may be for your own personal safety to bounce. Recently in Vegas when I was there, a guy was stabbed to death outside of a McDonalds because he got into it with another guy over a fucking cell phone.

Better to be a smart man then a dead 'hero'. There's a time and place for everything and based on OP being a Newbie and in a different country where he's not proficient in the native language, the smart move would have been to bounce.

Mc Queen got excellent advice here. This is what separate newbies and players: situational awareness. Know your surrounding. Know where to bound your girl. Know if there are obstacles approaching. Have that radar/spider sense tickling inside you that warn u of any impending challenger. This is how our ancestors survived the cave days. Now we are too wussy to use it.

Post: #20

First you have to realize that a 30-year-old "girl" in a FSU country or even in Eastern Europe - Poland, Czech etc. - behaves completely differently than a 24-year-old.

30-year-old in Ukraine is almost in spinster-land, her feminist indoctrination and her good job may have boozed her inner hamster, but she is desperate. Also gaming her becomes more difficult than with a 22-year-old. It becomes more and more difficult to NOT be a potential provider shmuck instead of the fun guy she wants to fuck. Especially since you had dealings with her in the past and she assisted you getting an appartment.

My take:

1. You put yourself in provider-mode due to your dealings on different topics. She was helping you with appartment? You were importing her food/gifts before having banged her?????!!!!!!!!! Sorry - mate - big mistake - gifts up front are a big no-go as we all know in the community!!! It seems you put yourself in provider / potential boyfriend mode....

2.
BTW - a budget hotel would have been 100x better than a hostel - you can always explain it away that you did not wish to dish out the cash since you are getting an appartment soon. Logistics are extremely important in getting laid and cashing in on the attraction built. You can always go for the romp behind the dumpster, but she is not 19 and furthermore your age and status (automatic since you are a foreigner) color her expectations as well. So in addition to having put yourself in provider mode you automatically lowered your value by not having a place to fuck.

3.
You got her drunk, got her wet a bit, she basically invited herself to your place and you have no place to go. McDonald's can be a vibe killer - she can easily sober up. Would have been better to go to some shady club, order a sandwich and try to finger her under the table. BTW - her comment regarding coming over in the future for pizza at your place is again a hint in the direction of provider-boyfriend-hubby.

4.
I agree with McQueen - pulling her out by the hand would have been the way to go. Since the guys know the language, you cannot really out-game them. They likely also had a more fun vibe and she was looking for a quick fuck. Might have double-teamed her later on indeed.


Here a great vid by Tyler Durden with great infield, how girls react differently to exactly the same openers and words when you convey more of a provider vibe instead of a fun-guy-to-fuck-vibe:





FSU chicks are of course a bit different, but girls are the same around the world as far as her wet pussy is concerned.

BTW - no criticism here - done plenty of those errors myself leaving me with empy hands and full balls in the end.

Post: #21

Really appreciating advice, but when you write about her and feminist indoctrination - you just have no clue (in general regarding women here, even around 30, or maybe in this case only). Did you visit any FSU countries?

I know budget hotel would be better than hostel and from that perspective it was a mistake... but I like this hostel I am staying and I also didn't expect that I will be here (was hoping for apartment from the start, but it didn't work).

(05-18-2014 03:34 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  4.
I agree with McQueen - pulling her out by the hand would have been the way to go. Since the guys know the language, you cannot really out-game them. They likely also had a more fun vibe and she was looking for a quick fuck. Might have double-teamed her later on indeed.

I will definitely choose this way in future in similar situation. Also his advice about surroundings is very importand and will have to improve with it too.

Post: #22

(05-18-2014 04:15 AM)whoishe Wrote:  Really appreciating advice, but when you write about her and feminist indoctrination - you just have no clue (in general regarding women here, even around 30, or maybe in this case only). Did you visit any FSU countries?

Yup - I live in EE and know plenty of FSU chicks. Feminism is relative of course. Sluttiness and hypergamy is increasing in all countries.

Krauser and Tom Torero are touring/living the FSU right now and making a killing. Krauser put up some good stuff on that topic recently.

BTW - feminist indoctrination is not only based on gender and fem-studies and the strong independent woman trademark or professing yourself a feminist - the women there won't of course.

Feminism shows itself in increased sluttiness, more hypergamous nature and longer carousel riding while trying to pin down the Alpha or optimal provider cock. Propaganda is seeping in on all levels - Iphone, Dating-Apps with plenty of free cocks, US TV series with plenty of post-wall-carousel-riders getting their picks of Mr.Bigs etc. Just ask some Russian guys with a lifetime of dating their women.

FSU women are especially guilty of that. Even 12 years ago you hardly saw attractive 30-year-olds who were not at least divorced and looking desperately for Mr. Right trying to settle and not optimize.

Do not be fooled by their feminine nature and professed traditional state - that may be true, but her hypergamy is on crack just as well. You have better chances with a 19-year-old from the countryside than from a 30-year-old carousel-rider. Of course I would try to fuck them both.

Post: #23

On second thought:

Her behavior was actually brutal - with women their actions are the message and not the words.

She ditched you in favor of two (!) dudes that hit on her at McDonald's. You knew her online way before, you talked a bit, you bought her presents, you had a 3 hour date and then she was more interested in 2 dudes she just met???!!!!

That is brutal and signs of high-level bitch-factor. It can happen to all of us, so no fretting about it - just a sign of the times.

My recommendation is still to persue her and to use some Beta-bait - mention that you wish to settle down with some nice "traditional" girl, you could imagine living there etc. You already positioned yourself a bit in that direction with her, so milking it would be fine. Then escalate ASAP and fuck her brains out.

Afterwards you will feel better when ditching her for good. This is no girl for any kind of LTR anyway.

Post: #24

Thanks again, I will consider it what have your written, but I really disagree with a lot of stuff. I use file I personally completed from "Hooligan Harry" posts on RVF as my bible here and I really trust his judgment regarding FSU girls.

She does't use internet over the weekend (one of the things I actually liked about her), only during the week in work, so it will be interesting to see if our contact via VK will be maintain by her.

Some few things I want to add:
1) I know it sound like a poor choice from bang perspective, but actually my perspective is quite wider at the moment. I have a first longer trip to Lviv and potentially I will be interested in moving here on permanent basis in a few months. So - even if it is considered no-no in game world - I prefer to use her help on apartment dealings and increase my chance that landlord won't fuck with me and my deal, even if it makes my chances of banging her going down. There is many more girls here.

2) She also spent her time and money of making a few calls and translating sentences for me, so I really don't mind spending 5 USD on some cheeses she wanted and which are difficult to obtain in Lviv.

3) But of course I am very disappointed about that night. Now I think I did really well one month ago (I met her at concert and she knew me because of common female friend) and also during our VK conversation. I think she came to our date with "From what I saw until today this guy seems to be okay, so if he won't be any weirdo today I can actually have a sex with him" mind, as she was quite stoic for first 20-30 minutes and then really opened up, started smiling and in general sending me good signals.

If we would drank less and I would have logistics ready, I think night could end differently. And there's also one thing where I really screwed up - I actually didn't expect that our date to some point can go so well. Like I stated in my topic in Travel section I really don't do well back home, so wasn't probably mentally (plus logistics) ready for situation which actually progressed nicely to some point. Oh well, lesson learnt.

I hope to have a chance to talk about this situation with 1-2 locals I have a contact with, wondering what they will tell about it,

Post: #25

(05-18-2014 09:41 AM)whoishe Wrote:  Thanks again, I will consider it what have your written, but I really disagree with a lot of stuff. I use file I personally completed from "Hooligan Harry" posts on RVF as my bible here and I really trust his judgment regarding FSU girls.

She does't use internet over the weekend (one of the things I actually liked about her), only during the week in work, so it will be interesting to see if our contact via VK will be maintain by her.

Some few things I want to add:
1) I know it sound like a poor choice from bang perspective, but actually my perspective is quite wider at the moment. I have a first longer trip to Lviv and potentially I will be interested in moving here on permanent basis in a few months. So - even if it is considered no-no in game world - I prefer to use her help on apartment dealings and increase my chance that landlord won't fuck with me and my deal, even if it makes my chances of banging her going down. There is many more girls here.

2) She also spent her time and money of making a few calls and translating sentences for me, so I really don't mind spending 5 USD on some cheeses she wanted and which are difficult to obtain in Lviv.

3) But of course I am very disappointed about that night. Now I think I did really well one month ago (I met her at concert and she knew me because of common female friend) and also during our VK conversation. I think she came to our date with "From what I saw until today this guy seems to be okay, so if he won't be any weirdo today I can actually have a sex with him" mind, as she was quite stoic for first 20-30 minutes and then really opened up, started smiling and in general sending me good signals.

If we would drank less and I would have logistics ready, I think night could end differently. And there's also one thing where I really screwed up - I actually didn't expect that our date to some point can go so well. Like I stated in my topic in Travel section I really don't do well back home, so wasn't probably mentally (plus logistics) ready for situation which actually progressed nicely to some point. Oh well, lesson learnt.

I hope to have a chance to talk about this situation with 1-2 locals I have a contact with, wondering what they will tell about it,

Sure - no sweat! Everyone has to adjust his game to his style, personality, looks and even age. Christian McQueen, Roosh or Krauser are all masters in Game, but all of them have different styles. The basics of Game are similar, but their approaches cannot really be copied 1:1 by all of them. Especially McQeen runs a lot of Good Looking Guy game as Krauser calls it.

BTW - just read your report of your weekend trip. Might contact you whenever I am in Warsaw or Wroclaw, so we could go grab a beer or do some Daygame.

Ukraine is truly a good hunting ground, where anyone with Game can score way better than in the West.

And yes - the women are domestic, don't mind cleaning and cooking for their man, they like traditional gender roles and looks are not as important to them - dominance, Game and to a degree provider status is more valid.

But what I meant about feminism creeping in is that their inborn hypergamy is just as valid, they accumulate way higher notch-counts and try to optimize their hypergamy for longer marrying later and later. But I guess there is no helping that since they are not aware of these things working within them. They still make by far better LTR than the usual girls in the West and you have way higher chances of finding a NAWALT.