(05-15-2014 02:39 PM)matthewshannon9 Wrote:  I didn't say anywhere that I speak like Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. I am able to speak only Russian 100% of the time with 80% grammatical accuracy and not feel that my head will explode, which I felt when I arrived. I didn't speak English the first two weeks, I was in such a deep depression but you have to push through that. Also, you need a girlfriend unfortunately to get past that level. And she needs to want to help you succeed. Otherwise its impossible.

So share your secrets..or do we have to buy the 9 hour program?
"If you act now, it takes 8 hours to master and 20 vocabulary words free"

Or is it the Topol method?http://www.amazon.com/Dermo-Real-Russian-Tolstoy-Never/dp/0452277450
According to him as long as you know how to swear and curse and tlll dirty antidotes in Russia..you have mastered the language!
(this method actually does work in ethnic ghettos)

@matthewshannon I suspect that either you are downplaying the amount of study you did before you arrived, or you aren't as good as you think you are.

Six months is certainly enough time to become conversational, but fluent? Can you talk about current events, business, professional sports? It's much easier to become 'fluent' in topics for dating and topics you would speak about with a girl, then to be able to fully express your self about a wide range of topics.

Even going to a meeting about sushi restaurants, brushing up on that specific vocabulary to be able to shoot a proposal is not that hard for someone already conversational, but that doesn't mean they are really fluent.

I am really interested though in hearing about your system as I am constantly adapting my own. We have whole threads here where we give each other tips, that is the spirit.

(05-15-2014 02:39 PM)matthewshannon9 Wrote:  I didn't say anywhere that I speak like Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. I am able to speak only Russian 100% of the time with 80% grammatical accuracy and not feel that my head will explode, which I felt when I arrived. I didn't speak English the first two weeks, I was in such a deep depression but you have to push through that. Also, you need a girlfriend unfortunately to get past that level. And she needs to want to help you succeed. Otherwise its impossible.

I think there is some discourse in the use of the word "fluent" - some people use it to mean 'conversationally fluent', i.e. they can converse without significant interruptions and the use of a dictionary. In other cases (usually formally) it means near-native fluency.

(05-15-2014 03:45 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 02:39 PM)matthewshannon9 Wrote:  I didn't say anywhere that I speak like Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. I am able to speak only Russian 100% of the time with 80% grammatical accuracy and not feel that my head will explode, which I felt when I arrived. I didn't speak English the first two weeks, I was in such a deep depression but you have to push through that. Also, you need a girlfriend unfortunately to get past that level. And she needs to want to help you succeed. Otherwise its impossible.

Actually, I think it's pretty good advice. Russian is no walk in the park. As a native English speaker, about 5-6 times as much material needed to learn Russian as there is in languages like Italian or Spanish. Many aspects of Russian are completely irregular and can only be learnt by practicing them. Examples - gender of many words has to be learnt, as does word stress, as the pattern is extremely complicated.

^But to say that something is "impossible" unless you have a girlfriend screams Game Denialist and troll.

True. He probably could have worded it in a much better way. Other options would be to live in a home stay or find Russian roommates, but both are not fantastic from a game perspective.

Not sure why people are hating on his claim of learning Russian in 6 months. How 'bout what one man can do, I can do?That's the proper mindset for success in life.

Speaking from experience, I learnt B2 level German in 4 months living in Austria. Russian is probably more difficult in some regards. But I don't find his claim to be outlandish.

It took me years of being fully immersed + doing horrible approaches in a foreign language, studying countless books and blogs, before getting decent at feeling somewhat comfortable gaming women in a foreign language.

I think Russian or any foreign language is the same, but around the 2 year mark is where all the hard work starts paying off, and you start feeling comfortable gaming in a foreign language. Notice I didn't say fluent, which is different.

There are no short cuts, just put in the hours and it will pay off.

And remember - you are what you study. If you study textbooks you will sound like a text book.

If I had to start learning Russian, I would at least find some pick up blogs that where in Russian, because that contains natural language used in flirting and teasing. Also has the benefit of not sounding like a textbook. That, and just whatever is interesting in the target language.

Think of it this way, you only need to sound good for the first 15 mins of the interaction (when doing your approaches), which is mostly just basic talk. I focused on that when I first started learning Japanese. Getting good at the first 15 mins is a small goal, with the larger one - being able to navigate around topics and obstacles in your target language.

(05-15-2014 02:39 PM)matthewshannon9 Wrote:  I didn't say anywhere that I speak like Dostoevsky or Tolstoy. I am able to speak only Russian 100% of the time with 80% grammatical accuracy and not feel that my head will explode, which I felt when I arrived. I didn't speak English the first two weeks, I was in such a deep depression but you have to push through that. Also, you need a girlfriend unfortunately to get past that level. And she needs to want to help you succeed. Otherwise its impossible.

I also don't understand the hate or denial from guys that someone can go from 0 to fluent in 6 months. I've done it before with 2 languages, first Italian and later on Brazilian Portuguese without stepping a single second in a classroom or taking any class or being in an Italian or Brazilian environment. I realize Russian maybe more challenging but if someone is living in Russia for say 6 months, I'd say it would be odd if that person did not get to at least conversational in that time would be questionable.

Matthewshannon, pease share how you achieved that with Russian. I'm trying to learn Russian so that would be very helpful.

(05-15-2014 01:33 PM)Lucky Luke Wrote:  This is kind of absurd but Google Translate is your friend. Just run the app on your smarthphone and write the phrase that you want to say, and make her use the Russian keyboard to do the same. It's slow but better than it sounds and you can actually make it fun for both of you. And now it has become pretty accurate.

My threshold now is 45 minutes with a girl before running out of words/things to say, but Google Translate usually helps me save the day.

NO !

Google translate fails badly with Russian-English translation.

(05-15-2014 06:44 PM)Orion Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 01:33 PM)Lucky Luke Wrote:  This is kind of absurd but Google Translate is your friend. Just run the app on your smarthphone and write the phrase that you want to say, and make her use the Russian keyboard to do the same. It's slow but better than it sounds and you can actually make it fun for both of you. And now it has become pretty accurate.

My threshold now is 45 minutes with a girl before running out of words/things to say, but Google Translate usually helps me save the day.

NO !

Google translate fails badly with Russian-English translation.

   

   

Conspiracy buff stuff: according to the "official" narrative (Warren Commission) Lee Harvey Oswald taught himself Russian in his spare time over a couple of years while serving in the Marines in Japan. When he defected to the Soviet Union, he spoke so fluently that he slotted right into life and Marina (the woman he was to marry) thought at first that he might be from the Baltic states because he spoke with a slight accent. All this from reading a Russian language book in his bunk during downtime.

Would be interested to hear opinions of those who have studied Russian.

(05-15-2014 06:39 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  I also don't understand the hate or denial from guys that someone can go from 0 to fluent in 6 months. I've done it before with 2 languages, first Italian and later on Brazilian Portuguese without stepping a single second in a classroom or taking any class or being in an Italian or Brazilian environment. I realize Russian maybe more challenging but if someone is living in Russia for say 6 months, I'd say it would be odd if that person did not get to at least conversational in that time would be questionable.

Matthewshannon, pease share how you achieved that with Russian. I'm trying to learn Russian so that would be very helpful.

What approach do you use? I'm learning Spanish now and focusing on watching telenovelas and Spanish TV shows with Spanish subtitles, slowly easing off the subtitles until I get to a point where I understand everything. It seems to be working quite well. I would like to speak more with natives but there are none in my area.

Draguer,
Italian: reading Italian newspapers, listening to Italian radio and songs. This was in the mid 90's as a teen, before the Internet era, using tapes and watching Italian tv programmes.

Brazilian: Brazilian music, which I love, reading Brazilian sites online, chatting online to Brazilian friends, mostly girls, exchanging emails with them, writing in Portuguese and they writing me back in portuguese and correcting me. Also got the TV Globo in cable and watching it whenever I had free time.

Caveat being since French is my native language, Italian and Portuguese are very close. But the single biggest factor in me learning these languages within that short time frame was that I had a very strong genuine interest in learning these languages, not for school but for personal and lifestyle reasons.

And the best way to learn any language is to get a gf from that country and talk with her and have her teach you. That helped me a lot with Brazilian.

I'm not hating, but Russian is significantly harder so it is natural to be skeptical. And his claim that he can speak it better than any foreigner he has ever met brings out my competitive nature.

Anyways, eager to hear his system. Mine has evolved to basically reading Russian literature /newspapers aloud, speaking with native speakers and occasional grammar drills and writing practice. I've almost completely quit using Anki as I think it has severely diminishing returns after you learn the most common 1500 words. It may be useful up to 2500 but at that point you should be building vocabulary from media and conversation more than flashcards.

Ok, you guys are getting all caught up on what fluency is, this is a big problem in my opinion. What is the most important thing for you? Knowing 10,000 words or being able to use 5,000 in speech without struggle? Fluency is the ability to speak without needing to stop and think and put together a phrase. I know many foreigners here who can read Dostoevsky in Russian but guess what, I don't care because they struggle to complete the basic tasks speaking. I take more pride in a smaller vocabulary which develops much faster being able to sit with anyone and discuss for hours although maybe limited in depth compared to English but any array of topics from sports to politics to just everyday life topics. Stop trying to attain "near native" fluency, its paralyzing and just unattainable until you live immersed in another culture for 10 years or more. Focus on speaking and only speaking because reading and writing just come much easier, why focus on them?

increased fatigue from the same 40 hour week I used to do and aging make it hard for me to consider learning new languages.

^I've read bilingual elderly people are far less likely to get Alzheimers.

(05-15-2014 11:37 PM)SpecialEd Wrote:  ^I've read bilingual elderly people are far less likely to get Alzheimers.

I encountered that study and its evidence is very weak. With a tiny sample size it suggests that Alzheimers can be delayed by a few years. Plus it wasn't double blind.

(05-15-2014 03:16 AM)Chaos Wrote:  ^ I agree about the third type.
First time I met someone like that I ended up staying at her flat for several weeks.
I felt like a fucking king and have never been so respected by any woman in my life. It was a really good time and a eyeopening experience.
She really did everything to please me. That " relationship" was the last nail in the coffin when it comes to dealing with Western woman for me. I lost all interest after that.

Once you have been in some sort of passionate relationship with a real Russian girl with strong feminime energy it's almost impossible to go back to anything else. I don't blame guys who fall into some sort of relationship with a Russian girl in Russia. It's hard to resist that.

This cannot really be explained with words, it needs to be experienced.

It's a matter of taste. But for me personally, Russian women are the Queens of all women in the world.

I like hearing that Chaos, but I'm thinking most things in life have both pros and cons. When compared to Western girls, is having a Russian girlfriend worse in any way? For example, do Russians tend to be more clingy, emotional, naggy, or ballbusting? And how long are your relationships with Russian girls typically? Like how does the relationship change after the honeymoon phase?

(05-15-2014 06:44 PM)Orion Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 01:33 PM)Lucky Luke Wrote:  This is kind of absurd but Google Translate is your friend. Just run the app on your smarthphone and write the phrase that you want to say, and make her use the Russian keyboard to do the same. It's slow but better than it sounds and you can actually make it fun for both of you. And now it has become pretty accurate.

My threshold now is 45 minutes with a girl before running out of words/things to say, but Google Translate usually helps me save the day.

NO !

Google translate fails badly with Russian-English translation.

It does not. It used to but now it's way better.

Some additional observations:

-I'm not seeing a fast bang speed. Day approaches seem to come with a minimum 2-4 date bang progression, similar to Ukraine. At night I do feel more looseness, but yet have not gotten more than a kiss. There are so many rumors of Russian girls being super slutty but I'm not experiencing that at all.

-Girls are friendly and sweet. During the day I'm meeting some of the sweetest girls ever, even more so than Polish (age range: 18-24). They're so patient too, helping me along with the conversation (in Russian). Again, this contradicts the general stereotype of Russian women that I've read about and also experienced in DC. I do think that it could be based on my location (i.e. if you take one of these girls and put her into Moscow, there will be a change) and also my general vibe which has become suited to the slavic personality.

-Very little smartphone attachment. Yes, girls have smartphones and they are on VK, Facebook, and Instagram, but I find that girls use their phones more as a mp3 player than a validation machine. On long walks a girl will not look at her phone in 30 minutes, which compared to USA is an eternity. I don't feel like I have to compete with her phone. At night it's worse but maybe only 40% as bad as the US.

-Exceedingly positive reception. I don't know if it's my look, my accent, or just the city I'm in, but I'm getting massive love. The eye contact I'm getting is insane and girls are actually insta-dating me (if I ask for help in finding something, they offer to walk me there, even though it's quite far). Even the guys are treating me with reverence. I've read a lot of field reports about Russia and I didn't get the feeling I would be received thusly. It's quite a surprise. I'm afraid this experience will push me deep into the provinces, because I know I won't receive this love in Moscow/Petersburg.

Two reminders:

1. Over 80% of my interactions are done in Russian. English only will give you a quite low ROI. My upper beginner level is greatly holding me back from creating connections, but it's enough for approaching.

2. Also a reminder that the talent level is very high.

(05-16-2014 08:01 AM)Lucky Luke Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 06:44 PM)Orion Wrote:  Google translate fails badly with Russian-English translation.

It does not. It used to but now it's way better.

https://translate.google.com/#ru/en/мороженое%20в%20асс

For those who don't speak Russian, "мороженое в асс" is supposed to be "ice-cream in assortment," not "in the ass."

Roosh, what are the prices like when compared to Poland?