(05-08-2014 11:45 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(05-08-2014 06:21 PM)SU27 Wrote:  

(05-04-2014 11:41 PM)Tresdus Wrote:  - no women for hundreds of miles for weeks at a time, it's basically like jail
True, but the most you work is 24 days and working 12 hour days you wouldn't have time for them anyway.
- it's very cold
You get used to it.
- not much to do in your off time except hit the internet, read, and fuck around with a bunch of dudes
Again you're working 12 hour days, unless you are sleeping 4 hours a day which is unhealthy you don't need much to do. Hit the gym and it's time to go to bed.
- sleeping and living quarters are very cramped
Who cares. I pay 600$/month for a 10sqm room. And all you do in your room is sleep anyway.
- if you get caught using drugs, you're kicked out (zero tolerance policy)
Don't do drugs then.
- speaking of drugs, this type of work has led both of my friends to heavily rely on alcohol and cocaine, which is a double whammy because they get tested for drugs every time they go back to work so if they test positive, they can't work (apparently, they have worked out ways to successfully cleanse their systems before getting drug tested)
Weak minds. Plain and simple.
- the work is highly regulated, but it's still physical labor so it's very exhausting and taxes your body
True, but there's ways to keep your body healthy.
- the three buffet meals a day make you gain a lot of weight unless you're really careful, problem is there's not much to do but eat plus the heavy work makes you hungry
Again, weak minds. No one forces you to eat. All you have to do is not put food in your mouth.
- my one friend works in Alberta a lot, but he seems to be losing his mind; my other friend is getting out of it - the other week he just completed his testing for his real estate license. His willingness to go from making so much money to so little I think speaks volumes to the difficult nature of this work
The work just isn't made for some people. I love working here, I like my job, been the best decision of my life.

Tresdus,

the way my friends explained work out west is basically:

1. no women
2. very cold
3. no privacy - living with 20 guys in cots right next to you is very different even from living in a small apartment lol
4. The high rates of alcohol and drug use aren't relegated to what you call "weak minds." Rather, the vast majority of workers in this type of job are addicted to something, just because of the nature of the work and environment in which workers find themselves in.

After taxes, you're making maybe $20k more than guys in other professions who are actually happy and get to enjoy life's little joys such as meeting women once in a while. If you're ok with living with men all the time and sacrificing the best years of your life without meeting women just so you can make an extra 30 or 40k, then feel free. You sound very happy with your job right now, but you're the only person I've ever met who has actually been "happy" with working these jobs. There's guys who rave about the money, but none of them do this job for very long and that's for very good reason.

The work pays a lot, and is a revolving door in terms of employees coming and going. It's like this for a reason.

SU27, that has got to be one of the most retarded things ever wrote on this thread and I don't know who the bigger fuckwit is; your friend for feeding you such nonsense or yourself for believing his bullshit. Your buddy sounds like the typical fly-by-nighter who moved out west without a plan to make some easy cash and took the first oil gig he was offered, then realized he couldn't hack it with the rough necks and moved back east with his tail between his legs and told everyone who would listen that Alberta sucks. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that you're from somewhere in Ontario, likely southern, as you guys haven't been moving out west en masse for years as us east coasters have and you haven't seen for your own eyes the way the oil biz positively affects so many young guys. That and only a fucking Upper Canadian could have such a god damned arrogant attitude to us peasants who don't hail from "the centre of the universe" and toil with our hands.

I'll admit that it isn't a glamorous lifestyle and yes the work conditions can be tough at times, but its a lot better than the garbage that your friend has told you and despite whatever preconceived notions you have of what Alberta is all about, a lot of us like it and plan on staying here long term and making a career out of it.

Again, this has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read on the internet, hopefully no one on here believes this shit and I'll break down your points to show how utterly ill informed you are:

1. no women: Yes, out of the 3 million+ residents in Alberta, all are men. Obviously while working on site, its majority male, just as it is at most male dominated industries that men all over the world work in. Of course, you probably work in a female dominated environment and are used to working around women all day, but believe me, a lot of us men actually prefer to work around other guys. As Tresdus has pointed out, we do actually have days off and go to cities such as Edmonton or Calgary (or farther), which have plenty. You can also get laid in camp (which I have) or if you live in Fort McMurray (which I do), there's enough girls here to chase.

2. very cold: I'll give you that, it was +8 today and there were flurries in the morning, which is why I fuck off to tropical paradises every winter for 4+ months at a time.

3. no privacy - living with 20 guys in cots right next to you is very different even from living in a small apartment lol: This is hilarious, have any of you had to sleep in a room with 20 guys in cots? Myself, I just moved in with my best friend from back home who owns a three level 2000 square foot house in Fort McMurray that was built last year, it set him back a lot but the place is great and looks like any late model house built anywhere in Canada in the past five years: big screen TVs, three bathrooms, new furniture, the fucking works, he even has a nice little gym set up down stairs with free weights, benches and a punching bag. My friend is working 7/7 shift so 50% of the time, I live alone. I pay $1000/month to live here.

4. The high rates of alcohol and drug use aren't relegated to what you call "weak minds." Rather, the vast majority of workers in this type of job are addicted to something, just because of the nature of the work and environment in which workers find themselves in.: This is probably the biggest lie I've ever heard, the vast majority, are you serious, care to share your sources? Oh ya, your dickhead buddy probably told you that one too. Yes, there are drugs in the oil patch, just like everywhere else but most of the guys who do them did them before they got into the oil biz and no one puts a gun to your head and makes you take them, I agree with Tresdus, weak minds. I for one have never seen anyone doing drugs on site besides a guy smoking a reefer in a parking lot once. Do you have any idea how much security is on an oil sands sites? We do drug tests for pre-employment, post-incident or if there's reasonable suspicion. Yes guys do drugs, but they don't last.

After taxes, you're making maybe $20k more than guys in other professions who are actually happy and get to enjoy life's little joys such as meeting women once in a while. If you're ok with living with men all the time and sacrificing the best years of your life without meeting women just so you can make an extra 30 or 40k, then feel free. You sound very happy with your job right now, but you're the only person I've ever met who has actually been "happy" with working these jobs. There's guys who rave about the money, but none of them do this job for very long and that's for very good reason.: Holy shit, your head is so far up your ass, you have to fart to breathe bud. We make A LOT more than 20K a year than other people in the same jobs across Canada and across the world, its no secret that welders in Alberta can make $250,000 a year where a similar welder in say Vancouver or Toronto would be lucky to pull in half that, this is common knowledge among the guys in this thread, one of the reasons a lot of them are going into it.

I don't think I have to explain it much to most of the people on this thread who have moved to Alberta after reading this thread, many of whom have met me in person, but I'll break down my situation for any doubters/haters out there:

-I began working in Fort McMurray earlier this week after spending four months in South America and three weeks back home on the east coast.

-My company paid my flight here and set me up in a brand new 2014 truck with a gas card, insurance, etc. I can use this truck as a personal vehicle and take it to Edmonton on my days off, gas paid, no problem. I haven't owned a vehicle in three years and always ride on the company's dime while I'm in Alberta.

-Living in a nice place as out lined above and the company pays me $145/day, tax free to do so, its called a "Living Out Allowance" (LOA)

-I'll be working about 12 hours a day and that includes travel to and from site, I'm working three weeks on and one week off and will drive to Edmonton/Calgary on my days off, or maybe fly down south for a week, we'll see.

-After taxes, I'm netting about $5500 a week and that doesn't include the $800 a week that I'll put in my pension (which has about $100K in it after working in the union over the past five years).

-As per usual, I will work until it gets cold, so that's about six months, in which time I should clear about 100K, less my monthly costs of about $2000, I'm sure I'll figure out something to do with the remaining 78K.

I only work about 5-6 months each year as most of the guys on here know, I spend the rest of my time traveling around the world doing what our fellow RVF guys do best: partying and chasing women. You can look up the data sheets I've dropped on Colombia, the Philipines, Thailand, Jamaica, Mexico, etc to see for yourself.

My lifestyle is easily achievable for anyone who wants to move out to Alberta to work hard, which is what most of the guys on here have done and are doing. The conditions I listed above and the money I make are in no way unusual, I work with lots of guys who make way more money, of course, it took me a few years to get to where I am, but really, anyone can do it.

So ya, us poor oil trash rotting away out west in such poor conditions, unhappy, depressed, never getting laid and addicted to booze and crack. Thanks so much for your concern bud and do us all a favor, stay back east and keep telling all of your friends how much it sucks out here, more money for us to make!

First of all, the angry tone of the response to my comment speaks volumes as to how happy how you are in your life right now. Were you on drugs when you wrote your response to my comment? Your post was filled with so much anger, hatred, and name calling that I have no idea where this came from. Are you a recovering alcoholic? Maybe it's just a case of the truth hurting, but my observations are based on what several people have told me about working in the oil sands as well as basic common sense. And other than a few details that may be specific to your situation, you pretty much confirmed everything I wrote.

I guess the way you communicate is in large measure either a product of your current work environment, massive drug abuse, or your Atlantic upbringing. Either way, it's safe to assume from your demeanor that you're not really cut out for a professional's way of life. The life of a laborer no doubt suits you, so you better make as much money out of it as your health and back can take. I'm not sure what you're going to do with the rest of your 78k, but whatever it is it probably won't be anything productive or smart. Maybe a few more trips to visit AIDS infested utopias such as Thailand or the Philippines will help the numb the pain of having to work in what must be hell on earth.

But I just wanted to point out that you angrily wrote about how wrong I was, and then, other than a few minor details that may be specific to your case, you went on to confirm pretty much every thing I said, which is that (1) there's no women up there (2) it's very cold (3) you make about 120k - which is roughly what I said my friend made and (4) the work is very hard and exhausting. Also, 120k before taxes really isn't that much money - all I said was I don't think the extra 30 or 40k is worth giving up the best years of your life.

As for the rampant drug use I'll leave that up to your overworked little Atlantic bred brain to figure out: if drug use wasn't a major problem in the oil sands, do you really think all the corporations out there would demand mandatory drug testing?

scotian, I'm a Canadian native living in the US looking to get into oil, if I pay my own way into a mud school, can I find a job up there?

His tone was like that because you don't know what you're talking about.
He makes 120k NET in 6 months. Please tell me again which other industry apart from being a lawyer or a doctor will make you 250k/year? And do you really think doctors and lawyers work less than us? lol. And scotian (and me) isn't even working a job that is hard. I got paid 8 hours today working maybe 5 minutes, the rest of the time was spent sitting around and talking.

Welder's might have a hard job but they make even more money.

And are you saying all police officers are on drugs because they also require drug tests?

I don't give give this guy to last more than 24 hours before the ban hammer hits him hard.

(05-09-2014 08:22 PM)Failing Wrote:  scotian, I'm a Canadian native living in the US looking to get into oil, if I pay my own way into a mud school, can I find a job up there?

Rough Translation (Sorry if I missed anything, Lazy Questions on RVF Oilsands Thread is not my first language):
"Scotian, I am too lazy to phone schools or companies that offer drilling fluid training here in the US to see if they have had any cases where students have gone on to work in Canada. As well, I have not contacted any companies in Canada to see if they hire drilling fluid engineers from specific drilling fluid training programs in the States. In fact, I have not even tried to connect the dots on the concept that my best opportunity for gaining employment in Canada would be to try and get my training through a company that has operations in both Canada and the USA. However, please make sure I have a safety net of landing a guaranteed six-figure job once I graduate from a program I have about 1% intention of actually enrolling in."

If you had bothered to read the thread, you would learn that Scotian works in the trades at refineries and facilities. Mud engineers work on or around drilling rigs, which are much more prevalent in conventional oilfield operations, not the oil sands. Scotian has gone above and beyond by providing random internet strangers with a ton of information and advice based on his experiences-- he is not here to hold a Q & A with guys who show no initiative to dig out details on their own.

Too many lazy posters here asking asinine questions these days.

(05-09-2014 07:06 PM)SU27 Wrote:  ...(2) it's very cold

(05-09-2014 08:29 PM)Tresdus Wrote:  His tone was like that because you don't know what you're talking about.
He makes 120k NET in 6 months. Please tell me again which other industry apart from being a lawyer or a doctor will make you 250k/year? And do you really think doctors and lawyers work less than us? lol. And scotian (and me) isn't even working a job that is hard. I got paid 8 hours today working maybe 5 minutes, the rest of the time was spent sitting around and talking.

Welder's might have a hard job but they make even more money.

And are you saying all police officers are on drugs because they also require drug tests?

lol a dentist is lucky to pull in six figures once you include all the overhead (office lease, equipment lease, bills, variable and fixed costs to run the office etc...) and salaries for his hygenist(s) and receptionist(s). Majority of them probably make less than six figures actually. They work long hours as well.

And as you said, we don't really work all that hard all the time. This week I've probably worked a grand total of 17 hours and got paid 50!!

My favorite part of his rant is the part where he mentions drug use! That is the most idiotic thing I've ever read. Addiction is a character flaw. Whether you're addicted to gummy bears or crack, it's your own fucking lack of self control. If you do drugs out here than you must have done it before or were planning to do it at some point. To say that life out here pushes you towards addiction is the most idiotic argument ever.

Also lol @ only making 20K more!! After a few years out here a lot of people make 200-300K a year. Only lawyers can come close to such high salaries and only once they become a partner at a big law firm, AND ONLY after spending 8 years in school (4 years undergrad and 4 years for law school) and spending tens of thousands of dollars, if not more. Plus, only in major cities like Toronto/Vancouver/MTRL can lawyers make high salaries. Outside these cities you'll be lucky to pull in 6 figures after a few years. Most family physicians/dentists don't make anywhere near these numbers and they probably work more hours too.

There are easy trades and there are back breaking trades. There's something for everyone out here. SU27's posts are complete nonsense.

(05-09-2014 11:55 PM)Nima Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 08:29 PM)Tresdus Wrote:  His tone was like that because you don't know what you're talking about.
He makes 120k NET in 6 months. Please tell me again which other industry apart from being a lawyer or a doctor will make you 250k/year? And do you really think doctors and lawyers work less than us? lol. And scotian (and me) isn't even working a job that is hard. I got paid 8 hours today working maybe 5 minutes, the rest of the time was spent sitting around and talking.

Welder's might have a hard job but they make even more money.

And are you saying all police officers are on drugs because they also require drug tests?

lol a dentist is lucky to pull in six figures once you include all the overhead (office lease, equipment lease, bills, variable and fixed costs to run the office etc...) and salaries for his hygenist(s) and receptionist(s). Majority of them probably make less than six figures actually. They work long hours as well.

And as you said, we don't really work all that hard all the time. This week I've probably worked a grand total of 17 hours and got paid 50!!

My favorite part of his rant is the part where he mentions drug use! That is the most idiotic thing I've ever read. Addiction is a character flaw. Whether you're addicted to gummy bears or crack, it's your own fucking lack of self control. If you do drugs out here than you must have done it before or were planning to do it at some point. To say that life out here pushes you towards addiction is the most idiotic argument ever.

Also lol @ only making 20K more!! After a few years out here a lot of people make 200-300K a year. Only lawyers can come close to such high salaries and only once they become a partner at a big law firm, AND ONLY after spending 8 years in school (4 years undergrad and 4 years for law school) and spending tens of thousands of dollars, if not more. Plus, only in major cities like Toronto/Vancouver/MTRL can lawyers make high salaries. Outside these cities you'll be lucky to pull in 6 figures after a few years. Most family physicians/dentists don't make anywhere near these numbers and they probably work more hours too.

There are easy trades and there are back breaking trades. There's something for everyone out here. SU27's posts are complete nonsense.

So how many people make 300k per year? Give us the numbers. I'm willing to bet very few people make that kind of money.

As for the drug addiction, I guess all those infamous problems northern communities have with drug and alcohol addiction are a character flaw, they have nothing to do with the fact the towns such as fort mcmurray are isolated in the middle of nowhere, temperatures are routinely -40, and there's nothing to do but work, eat, and sleep.

@ tresdus: the reason his tone was like that is because he doesn't know how to communicate properly, which is no doubt due to his working in an isolated area for years at a time. He also knows the truth hurts. Does anyone actually believe him when he says that there's plenty of options for women in Fort McMurray in northern Alberta??? The funniest part is, you say I don't know what I'm talking about yet you yourself admit that you can only take it up there for a few years where you'll make as much money as you can and then get out. If it's so great and everything I said is bs, why don't you stay there forever and become a millionaire?

I'll tell you why: it's because all my pros and cons were for the most part - allowing for minor differences between different jobs and different levels of seniority - very accurate. That's why you yourself said you were only going to work there for a very short time ie a few years.

Like wtf I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. You guys know where fort mcmurray is right? It's in the Canadian arctic shield, it's the equivalent to being stuck in northern Siberia for 6 to 10 months at a time.

The isolation, cold temperatures, lack of female companionship and much of anything to do is why the drug and alcohol problem is so serious, so serious that companies routinely institute drug testing.

You don't have to believe me. The high salaries, high rates of worker attrition, and drug testing requirements tell you all you need to know about how great work there really is.

Everyone stop feeding the troll.
Nobody needs to justify anything to SU27. He's just a dickhead with a keyboard, zero knowledge and a stick up his ass.

(05-10-2014 01:37 AM)Kdog Wrote:  Everyone stop feeding the troll.
Nobody needs to justify anything to SU27. He's just a dickhead with a keyboard, zero knowledge and a stick up his ass.

True, the only thing's that people who have no idea about reality here might read his drivel and get discouraged.

Edit: haha I love how he says "you don't have to believe me" to people who are actually out here, when he's basing everything on what his "friend" told him. This guy's something else.

Quote:You don't have to believe me. The high salaries, high rates of worker attrition, and drug testing requirements tell you all you need to know about how great work there really is.

(05-09-2014 09:14 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 08:22 PM)Failing Wrote:  scotian, I'm a Canadian native living in the US looking to get into oil, if I pay my own way into a mud school, can I find a job up there?

Rough Translation (Sorry if I missed anything, Lazy Questions on RVF Oilsands Thread is not my first language):
"Scotian, I am too lazy to phone schools or companies that offer drilling fluid training here in the US to see if they have had any cases where students have gone on to work in Canada. As well, I have not contacted any companies in Canada to see if they hire drilling fluid engineers from specific drilling fluid training programs in the States. In fact, I have not even tried to connect the dots on the concept that my best opportunity for gaining employment in Canada would be to try and get my training through a company that has operations in both Canada and the USA. However, please make sure I have a safety net of landing a guaranteed six-figure job once I graduate from a program I have about 1% intention of actually enrolling in."

If you had bothered to read the thread, you would learn that Scotian works in the trades at refineries and facilities. Mud engineers work on or around drilling rigs, which are much more prevalent in conventional oilfield operations, not the oil sands. Scotian has gone above and beyond by providing random internet strangers with a ton of information and advice based on his experiences-- he is not here to hold a Q & A with guys who show no initiative to dig out details on their own.

Too many lazy posters here asking asinine questions these days.

Thanks for the constructive reply. After reading the various threads, it seems like the 'oil specific' skills are the ones that with the really high potential, but the cost is that they are not relevant to anything other than the oil industry, unlike welding/electrician/plumber.

I've found a few drilling fluids training programs in the USA that take people without technical degrees off the street, total cost of ownership ranging from 5-15k. Despite calling the programs and a few companies, I'm a little skeptical about the idea that anything that low of a price tag results in walking into six figures, so I'm asking for some reality, hopefully from a person on the internet that has no financial incentive to lie to me. People like oil company HR people who can tell you whatever they want before you have the offer letter sitting in front of you, and University of Phoenix-type academic programs that live on churn have an incentive to lie to prospective applicants (like me). Additionally, nobody has touched the Affirmative Action in Canada issue in this thread, apparently in most industries up there it's a really huge deal. I'd stand to benefit, and I'd imagine that at a minimum, some of the Canadian posters have knowledge of it. This is a specific enough question that I felt like it would be useful to the thread to get answers posted.

So to make it simpler, for anyone with the expertise to answer:
Does paying yourself through a mud school actually result in a mud engineer job and the same career progression as someone who goes in and gets trained by a company or is there a substantial amount of BS (companies not recognizing the certificate, requiring that you completely retrain through them, etc) tied to paying your own way?
Does anyone know how preferential hiring for Canadian natives affects the oil biz up there, is it enough that I should be primarily looking at working in Canada?

I would bet money SU27 is from Toronto or Ontario for sure.

No one is asking you to move out there, many guys have moved out there from this forum and are loving it. Christ some guys have come from other countries to take advantage of the situation.

The conditions may not be ideal but that is why they are paying big dollars, most people can't hack it including you SU27.

Good luck finding a decent paying job in Toronto,plus no one is going to give you 4 months off. My cubicle job gives me two weeks off to start, I won't be there long.

Comparisons are usually stupid, comparing this too Doctors and Lawyers is even more stupid. They study for years to get certified, most of those professions you are looking close to 7 years or more of studying. Oil sands jobs are asking for no experience. Lawyers work 14 hr days to start, Accountants work 70 hr week to start (I know a kid who started at PWC).

Scotian can talk to you anyhow he pleases, he is a veteran and has earned a lot of respect around here. I suggest you keep quite if you want to stay around here.

(05-10-2014 12:53 AM)SU27 Wrote:  @ tresdus: the reason his tone was like that is because he doesn't know how to communicate properly, which is no doubt due to his working in an isolated area for years at a time. He also knows the truth hurts. Does anyone actually believe him when he says that there's plenty of options for women in Fort McMurray in northern Alberta??? The funniest part is, you say I don't know what I'm talking about yet you yourself admit that you can only take it up there for a few years where you'll make as much money as you can and then get out. If it's so great and everything I said is bs, why don't you stay there forever and become a millionaire?

I'll tell you why: it's because all my pros and cons were for the most part - allowing for minor differences between different jobs and different levels of seniority - very accurate. That's why you yourself said you were only going to work there for a very short time ie a few years.

Because I only need a few years to become a millionaire? I won't spend my money on drugs or other stupid shit. I'll need to work at most 10 years before I have enough money to invest somewehere else (Real Estate) that I won't have to ever work a "normal" job again.

You'll be working your comfortable office job till your 65. I'll have 10 years of working and then I have the rest of my life where I can do whatever I want.

(05-10-2014 08:23 AM)Failing Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 09:14 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 08:22 PM)Failing Wrote:  scotian, I'm a Canadian native living in the US looking to get into oil, if I pay my own way into a mud school, can I find a job up there?

Rough Translation (Sorry if I missed anything, Lazy Questions on RVF Oilsands Thread is not my first language):
"Scotian, I am too lazy to phone schools or companies that offer drilling fluid training here in the US to see if they have had any cases where students have gone on to work in Canada. As well, I have not contacted any companies in Canada to see if they hire drilling fluid engineers from specific drilling fluid training programs in the States. In fact, I have not even tried to connect the dots on the concept that my best opportunity for gaining employment in Canada would be to try and get my training through a company that has operations in both Canada and the USA. However, please make sure I have a safety net of landing a guaranteed six-figure job once I graduate from a program I have about 1% intention of actually enrolling in."

If you had bothered to read the thread, you would learn that Scotian works in the trades at refineries and facilities. Mud engineers work on or around drilling rigs, which are much more prevalent in conventional oilfield operations, not the oil sands. Scotian has gone above and beyond by providing random internet strangers with a ton of information and advice based on his experiences-- he is not here to hold a Q & A with guys who show no initiative to dig out details on their own.

Too many lazy posters here asking asinine questions these days.

Thanks for the constructive reply. After reading the various threads, it seems like the 'oil specific' skills are the ones that with the really high potential, but the cost is that they are not relevant to anything other than the oil industry, unlike welding/electrician/plumber.

I've found a few drilling fluids training programs in the USA that take people without technical degrees off the street, total cost of ownership ranging from 5-15k. Despite calling the programs and a few companies, I'm a little skeptical about the idea that anything that low of a price tag results in walking into six figures, so I'm asking for some reality, hopefully from a person on the internet that has no financial incentive to lie to me. People like oil company HR people who can tell you whatever they want before you have the offer letter sitting in front of you, and University of Phoenix-type academic programs that live on churn have an incentive to lie to prospective applicants (like me). Additionally, nobody has touched the Affirmative Action in Canada issue in this thread, apparently in most industries up there it's a really huge deal. I'd stand to benefit, and I'd imagine that at a minimum, some of the Canadian posters have knowledge of it. This is a specific enough question that I felt like it would be useful to the thread to get answers posted.

So to make it simpler, for anyone with the expertise to answer:
Does paying yourself through a mud school actually result in a mud engineer job and the same career progression as someone who goes in and gets trained by a company or is there a substantial amount of BS (companies not recognizing the certificate, requiring that you completely retrain through them, etc) tied to paying your own way?
Does anyone know how preferential hiring for Canadian natives affects the oil biz up there, is it enough that I should be primarily looking at working in Canada?

There, now that is a much better question.

Do not pay for mud school on your own dime, try to get hired by a service company first and if they feel the need to train you they will do it themselves. I completely agree that lots of those mud programs are akin to University of Phoenix shit- nothing more than degree mills. Way too risky of a move especially if you are doing the program in the States with a subsequent plan to work in Canada after graduation with no company backing you up.

What if you don't like drilling? Since you are posting this then I assume you have never stepped foot on a rig, but the easiest way to progress through to mud engineer is to get some experience working on a rig or through entry level work for a field service company, then switching to drilling fluids once you learn the ropes and build rapport with your supervisors. Unless you have a degree in petroleum engineering from an ABET recognized school then the only true substitute is going to be real work experience.

This random post I just found googling seems to agree with some of this: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=121856


And on the "Affirmative Action" thing: I have no idea what your race is, by bringing that up you sound like you just want to take advantage of the fact that you are a minority and 'deserve' to get hired if indeed you are non-white. There is no 'affirmative action' in the Canadian oilfields buddy. If you work hard, work well with others and show promise you move up, not because of the colour of your skin or what it says on your passport. The oil patch is truly one of the last industries in this wacky western world where somebody can move up the ladder due solely on merit alone, not because of political legislation that demands accelerated progression for minorities. This is the fucking oil patch, not the CBC/Globe and Mail/Toronto Star etc!


And yes- if you are a Canadian Citizen then you WILL have a MUCH easier time getting work up in the Canadian oil patch compared to the bureaucratic bullshit foreign guys have to deal with. Don't fuck around with a bunch of expensive drilling fluid school training shit- just pack your bags and come up here and once you get some experience the world will be your oyster. As many other posters can attest to, once your testicles descend and you take the plunge, you will be amazed at the doors that will open once you make the move.

(05-10-2014 01:37 AM)Kdog Wrote:  Everyone stop feeding the troll.
Nobody needs to justify anything to SU27. He's just a dickhead with a keyboard, zero knowledge and a stick up his ass.

Zero knowledge huh? Well geniuses, take a look at the very first OP in this thread written by your revered God Scotian you bunch of mindless sheep. You will see all the negatives I mentioned, he already specified word for word:

(01-23-2012 11:39 AM)scotian Wrote:  its definitely not a lifestyle for everyone

(01-23-2012 11:39 AM)scotian Wrote:  Its a rough, frontier town; gangs, drugs etc. If you're going to the bars and clubs, be ready to scrap!
-Real estate is INSANE, a mobile home costs half a million!

(01-23-2012 11:39 AM)scotian Wrote:  It can be very difficult and for 6 months of the year, especially Dec/Jan/Feb, its FUCKING COLD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn-ZBdKu7O8

(01-23-2012 11:39 AM)scotian Wrote:  I did absolutely nothing for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week (well I watched a lot of movies and read books, surfed web, etc).

(01-23-2012 11:39 AM)scotian Wrote:  WORK CAMPS: If you come work up here, chances are that you will be living in a work camp, they're massive housing complexes where the workers live. I used to enjoy it but after 2 years of staying in camps, it became more and more like prison!

As you can see, IT IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ABOUT THE DOWNSIDE OF WORKING IN FORT MCMURRAY. I don’t understand how you can say I don’t know what I’m talking about, when the very first post in this thread by Scotian mirrors every single thing I have said lmao

I really don't understand some of you guys and why you bear so much anger and hatred, I was just stating something that was stated in the very first post in this thread.

Anyways, good luck with breaking your back for the rest of your life. I was just trying to help you guys see the other side of this "utopia" in the Canadian Arctic.

(05-10-2014 12:13 PM)komatiite Wrote:  words

I have some friends who are in oil in the USA, they know me, and suggested I put myself through mud school and fish for jobs with the major drilling fluid companies or use it to boost my professional credentials in general.

I'm a card-carrying Canadian native, US citizen. Some of the Canadians I've talked to seem to think that this is a free pass up north--I didn't find out about it until after I had already gotten through most of my life as 'white male', so if it's a draw for employers, I'd be stupid not to use it. Non-technical college degree so going to a company and asking for training off the bat probably won't work. I'm looking around for a rotational job. I would be making a bad decision if I end with working for less than 70k/yr on 14/7 year round, or fail outright to find a job after wasting a bunch of money into a degree mill. I keep hearing horror stories in the US of people having large portions of their paychecks eaten by having to pay rent while on site, which sounds exactly like the blue collar America I grew up in--I've worked in a warehouse, so I'm not worried about my manicure or some stupid shit like that.

Is it seriously better to just show up with a work ethic as winter is starting?

Some of SU27's post history here at RVF tells a compelling tale:

(05-03-2013 04:22 PM)SU27 Wrote:  i'm a lawyer and went to an ivy league

(01-29-2014 01:58 AM)SU27 Wrote:  I want to know too.. been hitting Toronto solo as well as in teams of two and three but nothing seems to work against the impenetrable bitch shield of Toronto women.

(05-09-2014 07:06 PM)SU27 Wrote:  I'll leave that up to your overworked little Atlantic bred brain to figure out

Fuck man, it must suck being an Ivy League Educated Lawyer Toronto: The Greatest City in Canada. You don't get pussy and you don't get paid, while all of us pieces of shit in the oil industry are living it up!

^ As to the "why is there drug testing" Its not because their is a drug problem but more because of the kinds of work. Truck drivers and heavy equipment operators get drug tests not because we are all worried about their health or that they are predisposed to addiction but because when you fuck up in a semi or other heavy equipment its likely there will be alot of property damage and/or loss of life. Welders and trades pose the same risk.

SU27 : So what does it feel like to critic what other people should do with their lives? its non of your business. if you dont have anything positive to say then stick away. pretty sure you wont discourage anyone on this forum with ur misleading info that u got from a clown like you in toronto.

Just a bit of clarification for ya :

People are NOT getting tested coz they have drug and alcohol problem. if you knew the nature of work in fort mc you would not be saying all that crap ur saying. This is an environment of harsh chemicals, oil and gas. Canada is 2nd to Saudi-Arabia in oil and gas production in the whole world. so while ur seating ur ass driving around in Toronto, just know YOUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN are working hard to make sure gas and oil is extracted, processed, refined and produced to make your life easier and possible.

People in Toronto drink too. So compared to Fort mc its nothing different. You go out on a weekend on your off days, do whatever you want..but once you come back, companies would NOT risk to put you to work with hangover when ur not fit to work. plus, when ur here ur not working by urself, you gotta take care of other people around you. Reason being, you are working with heavy machinery, Toxic chemicals thats very harzadous to health. SO YOU GOTTA BE ON YOUR RIGHT MIND. thats why they do drug and alcohol teasing buddy.

Its easy to tell that you are mislead by some low lifer in Toronto. The funny thing is, you think you are giving advice to people who EARN way much than you can ever imagine, well travelled, and have already bought their houses CASH.

You are bashing down Scotian but just look around, everyone is against what you are trying to advocate for. He has inspired a lot of people to move out west and make their life possible where they could not(toronto), as far as money is concerned.

yay am outta here. this SU27 guy gotta stop his BS.

Have you guys had any problems with the security people? I may be interested in taking a security position up there and was wondering if they had to deal with alot of bs or if most of their job just consists of fire watch duties, basically sitting in a chair and watching for problems.

I have a wife and a kid is in our near future, I don't really want to take a job where my health is at risk all the time. Are the security guys really anal up there?

(05-10-2014 08:37 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  Have you guys had any problems with the security people? I may be interested in taking a security position up there and was wondering if they had to deal with alot of bs or if most of their job just consists of fire watch duties, basically sitting in a chair and watching for problems.

I have a wife and a kid is in our near future, I don't really want to take a job where my health is at risk all the time. Are the security guys really anal up there?

No health risks at all dude... just dealing with the odd drunk guy at camp etc and making sure people are staying safe. Nobody is really anal, everyone is just there to get a job done and hopes for a hassle-free shift so there's mutual respect for the most part. It definitely won't be a very mentally stimulating job though!

(05-10-2014 01:36 PM)Failing Wrote:  

(05-10-2014 12:13 PM)komatiite Wrote:  words

I have some friends who are in oil in the USA, they know me, and suggested I put myself through mud school and fish for jobs with the major drilling fluid companies or use it to boost my professional credentials in general.

I'm a card-carrying Canadian native, US citizen. Some of the Canadians I've talked to seem to think that this is a free pass up north--I didn't find out about it until after I had already gotten through most of my life as 'white male', so if it's a draw for employers, I'd be stupid not to use it. Non-technical college degree so going to a company and asking for training off the bat probably won't work. I'm looking around for a rotational job. I would be making a bad decision if I end with working for less than 70k/yr on 14/7 year round, or fail outright to find a job after wasting a bunch of money into a degree mill. I keep hearing horror stories in the US of people having large portions of their paychecks eaten by having to pay rent while on site, which sounds exactly like the blue collar America I grew up in--I've worked in a warehouse, so I'm not worried about my manicure or some stupid shit like that.

Is it seriously better to just show up with a work ethic as winter is starting?

Man, don't even bother with the drilling fluid school. You are a white male- the seas of crude oil will literally part open for you like Moses when you get here and you will be immediately promoted to CEO!

Man that Su27 sure was a prick, I don't know what he was trying to accomplish by coming on here and bashing all of our decision to work in oil and gas. He thought he was educating us to how it is with his half truths and misconceptions of what working in the patch is all about by citing some worst case scenario examples of how some oil gigs are when us that actually work up here know that it couldn't be any farther from the truth. His post history was quite revealing: Ivy league educated lawyer (probably one of the greasiest, most despised professions in the world but hey, who am I to knock another man's work?), divorced and a dead beat dad. He doesn't seem to do so well with the women in his home city of Toronto (ya I guessed that one right, he's an Upper Canadian), which as many of you know, is run by an alcoholic, obese, crack smoker who is currently in rehab. Anyway, that fucking idiot won't be missed!

So I just finished my first day on this new job and its pretty sweet, I'll be working in one of the mines doing maintenance repair on the mine shovels which are the big heavy equipment that scoop up the oil sand and dump it into the big massive mining trucks. I've worked a bit in the mines before doing tailings line maintenance (the piping systems that carry by-product to the tailings ponds) but never on the mining equipment itself. Its a decent opportunity to get experience working on mining equipment, which will look good on a resume, especially if I ever try to get work in a mine somewhere else in the country, or the world. One downside is that I won't be expanding my skill set and learning anything new about my job itself, but it'll be a fairly easy gig, nothing too complicated. Here's a video of a Komatsu mine shovel scooping up copper at a mine in Chile, who know's maybe I'll end up working down there on day:





Another thing is the rotation isn't actually three weeks on, one off, its even better (for me anyway), its basically two on, two off all year round with a full two months off in January/February. So I'm probably going to move back to Edmonton or maybe even Calgary, I'm going to figure that out in the next week or so.

If any of you are interested in working in the mining side of things, just let me know and I'll see if I can talk to some of the mining guys about career opportunities, I haven't done a lot of mine work before so can't tell you too much about it now. I do know as far as oil and gas goes, the oil sands are kind of unique in the sense that, as far as I know, they're the only oil that's mined instead of the more conventional methods of drilling. So, on an oil sands site with a mine (Suncor base plant, Syncrude, CNRL Horizon, Exxon Kearl Lake, Shell Albian sands), you have the mine, plus upgrading facilities to process the bitumen then tank farms to store the product and pipe line systems to ship it south, the latter three which are common on all oil sites the world over. So, if you work in the oil sands, you can potentially gain valuable experience in mining which could be used all over the world: Chile, Australia, South Africa, Mongolia, etc.

I know that the mining equipment maintenance company that does the work on my site is called SMS Mining equipment, I checked out their website and they're currently hiring three labourers for shop work at their facility out in Acheson, which is west of Edmonton, a small little town with a lot of industrial shops. Could be a good gig for a guy who doesn't like living right in the city, but its only 20 minutes outside and these gigs could definitely lead to an oil sands gig after you prove yourself in the shop, not sure if its union or not, but if any of you guys in Etown are looking for a decent career to get into, I'd be getting my ass out to Acheson with a fist full of resumes to pass out, there's lots of different shops out that way, its like a mini-Nisku.

I fucking hate lawyers!

20 to a room he said...oh dear.

Nice one scotian for handing his arse back to him. Needed to be done.

Still haven't had the pleasure of meetin up with you or any of the guys just yet. Been working like a dog for the most part in my day job and doing bits on the side. We're well overdue for some debauchery Edmonton style sometime soon. I will drink, smoke and snort all of you under the table believe me! That's not a threat - it's a promise.

I'm one of scotians original 'children' for those that don't know me, ie was thinkin about coming here, read this thread in 2012 and decided to pull the trigger and get the fuck out of Ireland based on the info I read to get my career back on track. Am so glad I did.

Keep on truckin guys!

Quote:No health risks at all dude... just dealing with the odd drunk guy at camp etc and making sure people are staying safe. Nobody is really anal, everyone is just there to get a job done and hopes for a hassle-free shift so there's mutual respect for the most part. It definitely won't be a very mentally stimulating job though!

Thats ok, I'm not a very stimulating person.

I'm looking to get any job that doesn't involve tim hortons. I have background in law and security so its easy for me to pick up a security job and I'm coming home from China here with wife in tow. We have a decent house in Ontario and my family is there so I think I'll likely just dump her there instead of bringing her into some thirsty cesspool of horny guys. Scotian has given me some good advice on entry-level trades that I'll put into practice when I get home but I'll also be coming home with around $15,000 to $20,000 CAD and I'd like to sink it into MULTIPLE trades education for the wife and I. She is thinking of doing hairstyling or nursing and I'm looking at anything blue collar.

I was looking at the community college programs at home but every one of them is like a year to two years before entering a job. I have an interest in Mechanics, Welding and Heavy Equipment Operation and an AZ license I haven't used in 4 years. My friend and I were thinking of taking a backhoe/excavator course at home but they run around 10k for a month and I've been screwed at private colleges before.
Any advice from boots on the ground would be very helpful.