Post: #1

Alright gents of RVF,

Something has been bugging the hell outa me lately, so I've decided to type it out and we can discuss.

There's a growing movement regarding Game not being needed in the traditional sense in order to pick up girls and that working out, dressing sharp and focusing on yourself is all that you need. Myth.

You veteran players understand the difference between Game and Lifestyle, but for the newbies I'm about to breakdown why Game is fundamentally important and always will be in order to bed girls with consistency.

I'll start this discussion by dispelling the myth of Game not being necessary.

If Game is not necessary, then how come there so many successful men with good jobs, money and social circle that are consistently friend zoned or treated as schmucks to get a free meal from?

If Game is not necessary, then how come a successful man with a good job and money in the bank struggles to keep his girlfriend interested in him?

If Game is not necessary, then how come a successful man, with a good job, bulging biceps and money in the bank can't keep his wife from cheating on him with the gardener?

If Game is not necessary, then how come I get emails weekly from successful men, who have good jobs, money in the bank and rigorous workout schedules, asking me how they can meet women and get laid consistently?

If Game is not necessary, then how come men who have studied Game for decades, have fucked hundreds of women and could go toe to toe with famous men, get laid consistently with beautiful women?

If Game is not necessary, then how come I was able to pull hot girls consistently when living on food stamps and homeless, without fancy suits, ZERO social status, zero social circle, no workout routine to speak of due to being too hungry and not a fucking dime to my name?

If Game is not necessary, how come I see below average to average looking men, outpull male models in the club consistently?

If my point isn't clear enough, then allow me to elaborate on the difference between Game and Lifestyle by utilizing the No Shit! Formula.

No Shit! Formula

First off, before anyone gets in a twist, realize that I'm clearly a HUGE advocate of self-improvement and developing a great lifestyle. As I have clearly written about in my books and almost daily on my blog, I motivate my readers to focus on themselves, as well as learning Game.

My point here is that there is too much 'buzz' regarding basic attributes that a man should be working on in his life, that while will enhance and add to his Game, is not in and of itself Game.

If working out, dressing stylish and making good money was all that's needed to be a Super Player, then every gay man in West Hollywood would be raking in the pussy.

Let's not kid ourselves: Game is separate and necessary along with developing one's lifestyle, but developing ones lifestyle will not in and of itself get you laid.

You can get laid with pure Game and without lifestyle, but lifestyle will not guarantee that you will get laid. I know men who make literally over a $1,000,000.00 a MONTH, who pay me to coach them on how to Game women. Multiple clients like this ranging from well-off to ultra-wealthy and even a billionaire client who I coached last year for a few months. If Game is not necessary and it's all about making money, lifting weights and rocking custom suits, then what the hell is their problem?

Back to the No Shit! Formula

-All men who are responsible to their bodies should workout and excel to have the best body they can create? No shit!

-All men who care for their health and who want to live a long and prosperous life should get on a regular juicing schedule? No shit!

-All men who want to experience the finer things in life, location independence if they so desire and be able to spend money as they please, should focus on making money that is suffice to the lifestyle they desire? No shit!

-All men who actually give a rat's ass about their appearance should learn about style, develop their style, invest in good fitting clothes and keep their appearance on point? No shit!

-All men who want to develop their brains should work on learning another language and read mind-stimulating books? No shit!


All men who do all of the above get laid and get laid with reckless abandon consistently with extremely hot girls and do not require Game in order to do so. False.

If Game is not needed, then how come we all know men who check off everyone of those good attributes, but DON'T get laid consistently and even more importantly, have ZERO concept of keeping a girl's interest in a LTR or marriage?

These qualities are all good and I not only do them, but strongly encourage each and everyone of you to be the best you can be and become who want to be, but do not be mistaken: NONE of those qualities are a substitute for learning Game.

In order to be a well rounded COMPLETE Man, then one must do all of those in addition to learning and practicing Game with women until it becomes an instinct.

The reason why teachers of Game will give out specific lines and 'cheats' is to help newbies in the beginning until they find their wings and can fly on their own. No one is advocating wearing fuzzy hats, flashing belt buckles and nail polish, in order to get laid. That in and of itself is NOT Game, but ironically how that was used during the Mystery era to help men with Game, the attributes I listed are now being used in the same way to replace Game.

Game stands by it's self.

You can be average or below looking in looks, have mad Game and pull consistently.

You can be broke as fuck, living on food stamps and homeless, have mad Game and pull consistently.

You can be living at home in your parents basement and still be banging chicks left and right if you have mad Game.

Lifestyle Does NOT Stand By It's Self

Coming from someone who knows about the most decadent lifestyles ever lived and has experienced everything from private yachts to private jets, parting with celebrities to spending thousands in one night on partying, I know from whence I speak when I say that Lifestyle does NOT stand by it's self.

You can own a beachfront home in Malibu, have a Bentley in the driveway and not be able to start, nor maintain a conversation, in a hotel lounge with a sexy girl that attracts her and causes her to want to fuck you.

You can own a nightclub, have your own table with unlimited bottles (I'm speaking from seeing this consistently with my own 2 eyes), be ABOVE average looking, ABOVE average in height, have tons of money and still NOT be able to pull from your own club, instead relying on a master like myself to do the dirty work.

You can be Tiger Woods, be famous as fuck, have a sexy wife, have multi-million dollar yacht, have ZERO Game and still rely on paying whores to fuck you because you never learned about Harem Control or about Frame in a LTR.

You can be Robin Williams, be world famous, but yet be dealing with bankruptcy due to repeating the same mistake of not marrying once, not marrying twice, but being a fool and marrying three times. Robin's lack of Game, NOT lifestyle is what has made him play the fiddle like a fool. With Game his story would be different.

Will developing your lifestyle help you get laid? Absofuckinglutely.

Will making money and having freedom to jet off anywhere you want, whenever you want help you get laid? Absofuckinglutely.

Will rocking a tailored suit, pocket square and tight haircut help you get laid? Absofuckinglutely.

Will hitting the gym, getting your body in Greek god condition, buying a juicer and eating health help you get laid and have even better sex due to your physique and stamina? Absofuckinglutely.

But those in and of themselves is NOT the end all and be all to getting laid consistently.

Game is necessary to know exactly how to trigger a woman's attraction for you and how to maintain a relationship without it becoming stale and her losing interest.

Game is necessary to know how to have Harem Control, not be dominated by women and their whims and how flip the script on them to qualify themselves to you and not the other way around.

I see WEEKLY good looking (no homo) men in Los Angeles who have BALLER lifestyles get blown out in clubs, parties, lounges and bars even though they have looks, status and money.

Game is an ingredient of Swagger.

I was out with a very sexy 23yo latina model the other night having drinks. I've banged her before and we were checking out a new restaurant. As we sat talking, she commented on what made her fall for me over the other men she has chasing her (Former A&F model, famous NBA player for the Lakers and a slew of very rich men), and this is what she said and I quote:

"Doesn't matter how good looking a man is, how rich he is, or if he's famous, I have to be 'turned on' by a man. He has to have swagger. He has to have Game".

Me: "Game huh? What do you mean by that?"

Her: "Well money I have, so a man being rich isn't a need for me. A cute guy is cool of course, but I've met gorgeous men who are BORING and aren't interesting and famous men tend to have the worse Game, so what I mean is that you somehow knew EXACTLY what to SAY and DO to turn me on. It's like you say and do what I would want you to say and do, but I don't have to tell you. It's hard for me to put my finger on it exactly, but most men don't have Game, but when I see it and talk to a man I can tell quickly whether he has 'it' or not."

Lastly, don't confuse this post with me not being a firm believer in developing your Lifestyle in conjunction to learning and developing your Game, but a concentration in BOTH is key to being a well rounded and accomplished man, but this 'trend' of people being too cool for Game, is a slippery slope that is grounded in myths and bullshit.

Game is necessary and always will be.

Unless you're Justin Beiber of course...oh wait, forgot he has one-itis with Selena Gomez and continually publically humiliates himself over her, DESPITE his millions, good looks (no homo) and MASSIVE female fan base.

Everyone needs Game. Don't be fooled. Even the people who say they don't use Game, are generally using Game without being aware that they are.

Discuss...

Post: #2

I think the key missing ingredient to the whole debate comes down to this statement: "Everyone needs Game. Don't be fooled. Even the people who say they don't use Game, are generally using Game without being aware that they are."

It is that simple and I'm on the guilty side of not pointing out that I've developed my own brand of "game" that works for me, and that the development of education, pumping iron, and business success is really just rocket fuel.

Post: #3

I posted this in a different thread but I will restate for banging purposes:

Rather have:

-Approached 1000's of 8's 9's
-Developed an iron Frame with women
-Ability to bulldoze almost every shit-test from pure instincts
-Spent tons of time in the right venues and events (connections)

With a tight budget, mediocre physique, best style I can pull with the tight budget.

Vs.

- Jacked
- Great bankroll
- Top $$$ style
- Luxury car
- Penthouse
- Only approached a few dozen 7+'s a year
- Sub par time spent at the right venues and events with 8's 9's

Obviously you want both. This post does outline how I believe actively practicing and pushing your active Game / Charisma (hitting on girls in person) is the main and by far the most vital ingredient to consistent success with being a player.

Post: #4

eye opening post. Prior to your post I still believed bitches would throw themselves at you assuming you have a shit ton of cash and fame.

It seems the main benefit of a good lifestyle is you get more opportunities to game the top of the line women.

You mentioned how one can still fuck bitches despite having a completely fucked up lifestyle, but what about keeping them? In your experience are average joes and guys with fucked up lifestyles able to maintain relationships

Post: #5

I don't understand why anyone would say that it has to be either/or.

If you run weak game on women, they won't like you. I agree with all of this.

I will say that if you fuck your women extremely well, they wont care about some of the shit you mess up.

I will also say that a lot of guys just starting out might benefit from working on their inner game first before they go and do 100 approaches so that they really are an interesting guy that women will want to talk to.

Post: #6

Travesty,

- Why does it have to be either or?
- I also don't get the need for 1000's of approaches on 8s and 9s. Some of us are good snipers and get to bang just as many 8s and 9s as those with 1000s of approaches with fewer attempts.
- Wouldn't you be better off refining your "game" so that it is less time consuming so that you can achieve some of the more lasting effects that developing yourself can have on game

Sometimes an "upgrade" to your tool kit can be more effective than using the same dame entry level tool kit over, and over, and over...

Post: #7

eradicator - it looks like we were writing similar stuff at the same time...

Post: #8

Money, looks and status just bring you access. Most won't throw themselves at you except mediocre girls and gold-diggers. Both of which I try to avoid long-term.

Running in those high-end circles is a mind-fuck. At those levels, nobody needs to "front" because they are either rich and/or famous. Half the time, famous people think I am some famous dude. Always a good laugh.

Post: #9

(03-19-2014 09:23 PM)seaAltair Wrote:  eye opening post. Prior to your post I still believed bitches would throw themselves at you assuming you have a shit ton of cash and fame.

It seems the main benefit of a good lifestyle is you get more opportunities to game the top of the line women.

You mentioned how one can still fuck bitches despite having a completely fucked up lifestyle, but what about keeping them? In your experience are average joes and guys with fucked up lifestyles able to maintain relationships

It's all dependent on the level of a man's Game.

I've done it and seen it done where a smoking hot girl, who's smart and has her shit together will continually choose to stay with a man who on paper doesn't have much going for himself, but has absolute mad game and can keep her, due to knowing exactly what to do and how to treat her to keep her begging for more.

Post: #10

Just had a lightbulb moment:

The reason why I'm so passionate about Game, is because Game is the great equalizer.

I've always been the underdog and Game is what helps underdogs reach a higher level in life, with not only women, but in business etc.

Game: there is no substitute.

Post: #11

(03-19-2014 09:02 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  There's a growing movement regarding Game not being needed in the traditional sense in order to pick up girls and that working out, dressing sharp and focusing on yourself is all that you need. Myth.

I only casually browse the game forum and occasionally search for threads, but I can't say as though I've noticed this too much.

However, I think there's something to say for the fact that if you're not treating your body well (good food and exercise, style, etc...), if you don't have dreams and passions and goals and a concrete plan to pursue them, and if you lack a certain base level of self-confidence or have other neurosis, that trying to pursue game alone will probably not get you too far.

What is game if not a high level component of lifestyle? You can't build a good house on a shitty foundation.

Post: #12

(03-19-2014 09:25 PM)eradicator Wrote:  I don't understand why anyone would say that it has to be either/or.

If you run weak game on women, they won't like you. I agree with all of this.

I will say that if you fuck your women extremely well, they wont care about some of the shit you mess up.

I will also say that a lot of guys just starting out might benefit from working on their inner game first before they go and do 100 approaches so that they really are an interesting guy that women will want to talk to.

I respectfully disagree from personal experience and some of those I've known.

At a point in high school I hit the weights hard, went in the sun all the time to get a good tan, was on the basketball team, new clothes, drive a cool car etc.. etc.. all to build my inner game before approaching and socializing more. This was before I knew of game, but it was my master plan. Wait til I am just good enough then go.

Didn't mean shit I was too chicken shit to approach or socialize enough to get the bangs I wanted.

I know good looking, athletic guys, good grades that did the same in high school and college. Most often case they just took the first cute or many times not so cute girl that came to them.

Not to say it was bad by any means. But my time would have been way better spent approaching, socializing, becoming friends with people to get me into the right parties, joining social clubs.

The best thing anything anyone could have forced me to do back then was do a few 100 day approaches over a summer and be forced to socialize with the right people by participating in the right clubs, crowds.

I had girls eye fucking me in French class I did nothing with to my regret.

Am I the only guy that when I am out meets other guys better looking, better careers, etc... that are shit with girls and just latch onto the first good looking girl that likes them back. Or many times a less good looking girl? I can't be.

Having lived in Colorado there were guys that did TONS of interesting shit, mountain climbing, backpacking, river rafting for weeks, in great shape.

Could tell tons of great stories and very active. Guess what? Still shit with girls and only took what came to them.



Stories of 2 of the hottest girls I have banged:

I never told them 1 single interesting story about myself.
They only knew my first name. I banged them the first night.
They did not know what I did for a living.
They did not know my social circle.
They did not know what my place looked like before they got there.

One girl I had a hideous orange/red blonde streaked haircut as a previous joke.
The other I was wearing a retarded costume that somewhat hid my looks.

I gamed the fuck out of both of them those nights though.


Bottom line: I strongly strongly believe a complete newbie 14 year old guy with low self confidence either overall or just with girls would build more "inner game" from doing a 100 approaches over a few months or joining a club/activity/job where he has to constantly interact with good looking girls than anything else.

Post: #13

McQueen,

As always, right on point.

I just read the article someone posted about "not needing game" which was a complete load of shit.

And while I also advocate things like dressing nice, exercising, money, etc it's definitely not "game." I remember thinking, when I was younger around 18 or 19, how it was that some guys who were chubby with average or below average looks getting 8/9's? It truly baffled me. And I was a guy in high school who was athlete of the year, prom king, and voted most attractive. (Never mind my HS class had 47 people) But I had zero game, and no mentors to help me.

In college....sure I got laid by some good looking girls, but not because of game. At the most, I'd say only small hints of game, because I was witty/funny and could hold conversation.

Before developing my game, I will admit I dated below my level, looks wise. I did the wrong things, like buying gifts of affection and trying to hold onto the women I dated. I would miss strong cues that some of these women were playing me.

Later in my mid 20's, I had oneitis with some girl, who at the time fucked me up pretty good. It's laughable now, but at the time I had no game and my emotions took some hit.

Besides that moment, one of the things that helped shift me into a different level of thinking, was meeting someone who mentored me in game. We were also friends.

With him, playing my natural traits to the maximum, changing my mindset, and approaching like a motherfucker I developed my game. Is it the best out there...fuck no, but since making those steps:

-Developed a harem/girls on rotation.
-Better quality/looking girls
-The girls would do anything for me-they worked in my frame
-I wasn't worried about losing women, or upsetting them. I made my path and if they didn't want to be in it, then get the fuck out.
-I got much better at SNLs and first date bangs.
-I felt more confident and sure of myself, to the point I actually liked going out alone even if visiting a new country.
-I pulled some fine Romanian strippers in Europe.
-I wouldn't feel defeated from a rejection-her loss was my attitude.

The list could probably go on. So for sure I attribute ALL of this to developing my GAME. Finding ROK and RVF has helped sharpen everything up, and I know I still have a lot of room for improvement. So for those just finding game, and getting started, I'd just like to say your best years are ahead of you. Learn from this site, find a mentor, and get out there and start approaching and developing your game.

Post: #14

(03-19-2014 09:43 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  I respectfully disagree from personal experience and some of those I've known.

At a point in high school I hit the weights hard, went in the sun all the time to get a good tan, was on the basketball team, new clothes, drive a cool car etc.. etc.. all to build my inner game before approaching and socializing more. This was before I knew of game, but it was my master plan. Wait til I am just good enough then go.

Didn't mean shit I was too chicken shit to approach or socialize enough to get the bangs I wanted.

I know good looking, athletic guys, good grades that did the same in high school and college.

Having lived in Colorado there were guys that did TONS of interesting shit, mountain climbing, backpacking, river rafting for weeks, in great shape.

Could tell tons of great stories and very active. Guess what? Still shit with girls and only took what came to them.

Bottom line: I strongly strongly believe a complete newbie 14 year old guy with low self confidence either overall or just with girls would build more "inner game" from doing a 100 approaches over a few months or joining a club/activity/job where he has to constantly interact with good looking girls than anything else.

Not to get too abstract and theoretical but it could hurt a guy's inner game if he's building an awesome lifestyle primarily for girls. By doing so he's assigning tons of value to women: I'm not good enough for fly bitches until I have some amazing accomplishments.

This creates additional work for himself when he finally gets into game. Now not only does he have to learn how to approach, he has to get rid of his fucked up beliefs of overvaluing women.

The best time to start game is now. If we look at it objectively, the women who are prime for gaming, younger girls, usually haven't accomplished shit themselves. Given that fact it make no sense for a man to feel worthy only after he has become successful

I go to a decent school in a state with tons of cool shit outdoors. Similar to you I noticed the same thing. Guys who are great on paper yet can't comprehend game. Following society's program can lead to material success, but it's terrible for game.

Post: #15

McQueen, when I read your post I began imagining one hand lurching outwards grabbing onto the side of a cliff as a man who was climbing up the side of a great mountain.

To let go is death. To reach forward and climb upwards is the only way.

I do not know much about life or game, but I do know one thing.

I want to be the best. The absolute best. Cannot even define it beyond that.

Thank you for this post. Inspiring.

Post: #16

(03-19-2014 09:43 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(03-19-2014 09:25 PM)eradicator Wrote:  I don't understand why anyone would say that it has to be either/or.

If you run weak game on women, they won't like you. I agree with all of this.

I will say that if you fuck your women extremely well, they wont care about some of the shit you mess up.

I will also say that a lot of guys just starting out might benefit from working on their inner game first before they go and do 100 approaches so that they really are an interesting guy that women will want to talk to.

I respectfully disagree from personal experience and some of those I've known.

At a point in high school I hit the weights hard, went in the sun all the time to get a good tan, was on the basketball team, new clothes, drive a cool car etc.. etc.. all to build my inner game before approaching and socializing more. This was before I knew of game, but it was my master plan. Wait til I am just good enough then go.

Didn't mean shit I was too chicken shit to approach or socialize enough to get the bangs I wanted.

I know good looking, athletic guys, good grades that did the same in high school and college. Most often case they just took the first cute or many times not so cute girl that came to them.

Not to say it was bad by any means. But my time would have been way better spent approaching, socializing, becoming friends with people to get me into the right parties, joining social clubs.

The best thing anything anyone could have forced me to do back then was do a few 100 day approaches over a summer and be forced to socialize with the right people by participating in the right clubs, crowds.

I had girls eye fucking me in French class I did nothing with to my regret.

Am I the only guy that when I am out meets other guys better looking, better careers, etc... that are shit with girls and just latch onto the first good looking girl that likes them back. Or many times a less good looking girl? I can't be.

Having lived in Colorado there were guys that did TONS of interesting shit, mountain climbing, backpacking, river rafting for weeks, in great shape.

Could tell tons of great stories and very active. Guess what? Still shit with girls and only took what came to them.

We have different definitions of inner game I guess. I would consider improving yourself by reading a ton, learning to cook, travelling, all great ways to build inner game. Getting a tan and getting in shape won't hurt, but those are mostly superficial improvements.

But again, why does it have to be either/or? Can't he do all of those things and still put the effort in to talk to hotter girls?

Post: #17

Hmm in my life improving game has made a big impact but it's hard to disentangle my improved results from my higher value in terms of being a cooler and more interesting person to be around.

I guess we need to really define what game is.. Confidence counts as part of game?

I don't think anyone is saying game is not necessary..

I feel like game alone has a ceiling for quality, though.. Hmm...

This quote below suggests game is important.. Don't forget that you are also a young natutally good looking guy though.. How did you do it though? It is impressive

-----
If Game is not necessary, then how come I was able to pull hot girls consistently when living on food stamps and homeless, without fancy suits, ZERO social status, zero social circle, no workout routine to speak of due to being too hungry and not a fucking dime to my name?
--

I think game is necessary but not sufficient for the hottest girls in the world..

It's hard to separate game, the effect of natutal good looks, and the feedback loop between looks, confidence and the positive results from women as a result..

In my case I feel like my limiting factor is not game

But I'd be interested to see others lists of all the components of what they consider to be game

Post: #18

(03-19-2014 10:24 PM)seaAltair Wrote:  Not to get too abstract and theoretical but it could hurt a guy's inner game if he's building an awesome lifestyle primarily for girls. By doing so he's assigning tons of value to women: I'm not good enough for fly bitches until I have some amazing accomplishments.

This creates additional work for himself when he finally gets into game. Now not only does he have to learn how to approach, he has to get rid of his fucked up beliefs of overvaluing women.

The best time to start game is now. If we look at it objectively, the women who are prime for gaming, younger girls, usually haven't accomplished shit themselves. Given that fact it make no sense for a man to feel worthy only after he has become successful

I go to a decent school in a state with tons of cool shit outdoors. Similar to you I noticed the same thing. Guys who are great on paper yet can't comprehend game. Following society's program can lead to material success, but it's terrible for game.

I really think a main reason guys opt out of putting time into more active Game usually comes to $ which is respectable we all need to have a bright future. I think a second reason is a fear of plateauing and that putting in more game won't be worth the ROI, so they turn to better clothes, and more weight room time to break this plateau.

Again I'd say unless you've approached 1000+ 7.5+ girls and spent the great deal of time in those types of places to rack up those approach numbers you have a ridiculous amount more of Game muscle you could be building and have not come near to really plateauing.


Yes I believe Lifestyle should be completely for yourself.

I always thought one of the biggest rewards of Game is not giving a fuck about how girls perceive your lifestyle goals.

I want to be a kindergarten teacher? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to own a comic book store? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to be a pro motorcross rider? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to be an accountant? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to be a beach bum surfer living in a van? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to be a male nurse? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to volunteer to build homes in the 3rd world? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to be a skinny poor hipster? I can bang hot chicks.

I want to be a jacked guy in a custom suit? I can bang hot chicks.

Don't put off building your Game muscles if you want to bang.

Post: #19

All that great style, life, money, cars won't do shit you don't put in the work to make things happen.

As man, nothing just happens. Nothing will be handed to you. If you want it, you take it.

Having more stuff doesn't mean that getting new stuff is automatically going to happen.

Wald

Post: #20

Eh I will go ahead and be the voice of dissent in a rare case.

Lets think about this. Justin beiber is a horrible example, he can still bang chicks and he gets laid. He can get laid any day of the week. Period.

1) what is harder getting laid or building a lifestyle? Not even close don't waste my time it is building a lifestyle. Most people are relatively young on here (likely college aged) should they start by building up their "game" or should they build their lifestyle. Again this is not even a debate. Build that lifestyle.

"I wanna go to college to bang chicks!" = every unemployed shmuck 4 years later.

Put the big blocks up early, ie lifestyle > game. Always. Always. Always. There is a zero point zero zero zero percent chance of anyone on here telling me you should fix your sex life before your bankroll. You'd be nuts.

2) yes you need "game" but really do you need it? My experience is not at all to build a good lifestyle which you can then use to learn game. All you need to do is be a logical human being. The girl is going to get ugly so don't get married and don't get a chick pregnant. No game needed. By simply avoiding a shitty marriage you're going to have a good lifestyle by your 30s where you can spend all your time running game/learning it

3) your experience is heavily influenced by the USA. All that girl in your example is saying is this:

"I need excitement"

Well that's all game is. Excitement. You can do that as a broke guy or you can do that as a rich guy...now lets think about it...

Is it easier to become an exciting person with an awesome lifestyle or is it easier to become an exciting person with a shitty lifestyle? Again lifestyle wins.

4) all you need is time. Game is simply how many chicks you've talked to in your life. This is why I always suggest night game while spending your whole day (energy) building your cash flow. Time = money. Period and straight up.

5) Lets play a game. Gun to your head you must bang a 7/10 within a year or you have to put $100K in the bank. Everyone on here with half a brain is going to choose the 7/10. Give me 3 weeks and its done. Give me 3 weeks I'll struggle to put real money in the bank.

The trend is not "game doesn't matter" the trend is what should come first the answer is obviously lifestyle. I haven't seen a single post saying "you don't need any game" anywhere on this forum or in the manosphere. The *correct answer* is we are saying the following:

"Build your life first (big blocks) then game on the side until your lifestyle is where you want it to be"

Pretty much,TL-DR is this.

If you're choosing to build your game first (sex life) at the expense of your lifestyle... I'll see you in ten years and you'll see me singing a song "you were wrong, you were wrong, god help you young man, you were dead fucking wrong".

Post: #21

"yes you need "game" but really do you need it? My experience is not at all."

^That's a bold statement.

Let's talk about the average cat on here, not a guy making $300k+ a year working as an investment banker.

I'm not advocating to abandon building Lifestyle for Game, but instead developing BOTH simultaneously.

It's VERY possible to do both, but any guy who thinks he can JUST build a lifestyle and not develop Game and still be great with women is sadly mistaken.

Post: #22

I take it all on as one thing. Game and lifestyle go hand in hand.

Post: #23

If focusing solely on money and lifestyle was the answer and THEN learning Game, then the show Millionaire Matchmaker would cease to exist.

Then again all those guys have such mad game, oh wait...

Post: #24

(03-19-2014 11:03 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Eh I will go ahead and be the voice of dissent in a rare case.

Lets think about this. Justin beiber is a horrible example, he can still bang chicks and he gets laid. He can get laid any day of the week. Period.

1) what is harder getting laid or building a lifestyle? Not even close don't waste my time it is building a lifestyle. Most people are relatively young on here (likely college aged) should they start by building up their "game" or should they build their lifestyle. Again this is not even a debate. Build that lifestyle.

"I wanna go to college to bang chicks!" = every unemployed shmuck 4 years later.

Put the big blocks up early, ie lifestyle > game. Always. Always. Always. There is a zero point zero zero zero percent chance of anyone on here telling me you should fix your sex life before your bankroll. You'd be nuts.

2) yes you need "game" but really do you need it? My experience is not at all to build a good lifestyle which you can then use to learn game. All you need to do is be a logical human being. The girl is going to get ugly so don't get married and don't get a chick pregnant. No game needed. By simply avoiding a shitty marriage you're going to have a good lifestyle by your 30s where you can spend all your time running game/learning it

3) your experience is heavily influenced by the USA. All that girl in your example is saying is this:

"I need excitement"

Well that's all game is. Excitement. You can do that as a broke guy or you can do that as a rich guy...now lets think about it...

Is it easier to become an exciting person with an awesome lifestyle or is it easier to become an exciting person with a shitty lifestyle? Again lifestyle wins.

4) all you need is time. Game is simply how many chicks you've talked to in your life. This is why I always suggest night game while spending your whole day (energy) building your cash flow. Time = money. Period and straight up.

5) Lets play a game. Gun to your head you must bang a 7/10 within a year or you have to put $100K in the bank. Everyone on here with half a brain is going to choose the 7/10. Give me 3 weeks and its done. Give me 3 weeks I'll struggle to put real money in the bank.

The trend is not "game doesn't matter" the trend is what should come first the answer is obviously lifestyle. I haven't seen a single post saying "you don't need any game" anywhere on this forum or in the manosphere. The *correct answer* is we are saying the following:

"Build your life first (big blocks) then game on the side until your lifestyle is where you want it to be"

Pretty much,TL-DR is this.

If you're choosing to build your game first (sex life) at the expense of your lifestyle... I'll see you in ten years and you'll see me singing a song "you were wrong, you were wrong, god help you young man, you were dead fucking wrong".

I agree with this if you are at the point that you can confidently bang a 7/10 in 3 weeks like you said or preferably an 8+.

If I am a newbie to game though in my mid to late 20s for instance that has had two 5.5/10 slightly overweight girlfriends his whole life, but has a good career, athletic etc... I'd heavily advise him to work his game muscles until he gets up to speed.

I wouldn't want to be 35-40yo by the time I slowly build up my game to being able to bang 7+ with confidence while working 70 hour weeks.

I think the advice here is for newer people to game. Guys that have been around have made their own choices to tailor to their lives.

Also speaking from personal experience I find it much much easier to focus on lifestyle and $ the more and hotter girls I have banged. I am more motivated because of my built up Game.

I know the possibilities. The old me? Not as motivated, cannot see the light through the tunnel.

For some reason I and am sure many other guys do not have your gift of delayed gratification to the same extent. Knowing I can leverage a better lifestyle to even better pussy through personal experience with Game helps me see the future more clearly.

Game built up can be a motivator for many guys to improve their lifestyle. Hey I banged a 7! Imagine how much easier it will be to bang 8's with more $ and freedom etc...

Post: #25

CMQ the point is this.

What do you start with? You clearly start with your time and energy building up a lifestyle.

Chicks come second or "ass is last".

You only game on your true free time.

If you're stupid enough to be "average" you deserve to fail in the long run.

If I was an "average guy" I would get my ass out of the financial rut first before I wasted my time chasing chicks. There is no way anyone is going to convince me otherwise.

If you made me average, again I would immediately fix the lifestyle part first. You don't deserve hot chicks if you are average anyway.

Millionaire matchmaker emphasizes my statement. Those idiots want a "spouse" once you wrap your head around marriage being a farse (it is) you don't search for the one anymore so it's not even game it's just logic. You don't need game as much as you need to realize you don't need a chick to complete your life.

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Travesty sees my point. If you are "average" clearly the answer is fix your life before you waste your time on chicks. Girls are entertainment do you have the right to be entertained by a hot chick? If your life is shit you better get off okcupid and fix your life.