Post: #26

Direct with compliments, running after girls. Yeah, I'm fine with it, no state issues either.

So yeah who cares if needs invented, running after a woman is going for what YOU WANT, not sure how it's pedestalising, maybe American women really do make life hard for you, I dunno, we are fine with London day game

I think Krauser's comment on the blog addresses it the best, each to their own lads. I'll stick with direct as it gets me laid and no I'm no handsome guy

Post: #27

(03-11-2014 05:25 AM)XXL Wrote:  As a sidenote, remember who "invented" direct game as an overtly method of stating your sexual interest upfront. It was a bunch of nerds [guys who see everything as an algorithm] who got tired of messing up their chess game type of interactions and decided to tell girls what's up just out of their frustration. It worked a few times and it went from there.

But if you actually look at this pure direct game notion from the distance it seems so weird. Like, how socially inept someone has to be to follow the method of breaking the ice with a compliment every time. And what do they expect, that a girl will fall in love in 5 seconds and offer them to go fuck? It's sooo whack hahahaha. Can you imagine hanging out with a dude like that? Horrible.

I perfectly understand Roosh's dislike of pua version of direct method. It suuuuuuuux.

While I totally agree with your last post, I don't really see your point here.

A bunch of nerdy guys invented direct game? You can't be serious. Walking up to a woman, making a compliment and asking her out is one of the most archetypal ways to approach a woman that existed generations before some Americans began to theoretize and make PUA literature out of it. Whether or not this kind of approaching is strategically sound for the average guy is up to debate but I don't see that it'd be per se socially inept.

Apparently, the question is how you pull this off and how you express yourself. A lot of members here write that approaching directly with a compliment means pedestalizing here. I don't think so.

Recently, I sometimes approached in the way you detailed above, but I also just used something like: "Excuse me, I'm normally not this direct but you appear to be an attractive and interesting woman and I would like to get to know you. I'm Flint, by the way, blablabla". I'm not saying this is the golden way to success but it can work and you don't automatically pedestalize her if your body language and your demeanor are absolutely congruent with your words.

By saying you find her attractive you don't make a compliment, you make an observation.

The attitude must be: She shall be fortunate that you chose and approached her and made her part of your life.

Again, I maintain that in many places women rarely get approached this direct. It CAN be a means to stick out from masses.

I'm writing this from a non-Anglosaxonian perspective, though. The culture I live in, does have almost no sexual tension between men and women in the everyday life. There is nothing to be gained from being subtle here. Stating your intentions unambiguously is way too often the only language these broads understand.

Post: #28

(03-11-2014 06:33 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I think Krauser's comment on the blog addresses it the best, each to their own lads. I'll stick with direct as it gets me laid and no I'm no handsome guy

You're alright apart from those greys

Post: #29

Yad stop ftw

Post: #30

i also think you could be wearing almost anything and it wouldnt make a difference, as long as you werent naked. once you stop direct its so intense on eye contact and whats falling out your mouth she doesnt have time to process your outfit. be fun experimenting with some random clothes though to see...

Post: #31

I've written a post on my blog in response to Roosh's post.

At the end of the day, it comes down to what works for you the best. If you can't do direct daygame, but can do indirect daygame, going out and saying direct sucks isn't true, or vice versa. It just means it isn't for you.

Same with online dating. It only sucks if you're not good at it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and what you eat doesn't make me shit.

I can make direct and indirect game work wonders for me. I understand where Roosh is coming from on paper, but if you're getting girls reacting to you in the same way as if you're pedestalising her after complimenting her by going direct, it's a reflection on you. Not direct daygame as a whole.

Post: #32

This post seems culturally deficient.

WIA

Post: #33

IMO, most people who insist on direct game (with direct being defined as extremely short and straightforward, regardless of whether any compliments are uttered) view seduction as being as much of a show for observers as for themselves. Getting a girl into bed that way is more than just a quick, low-investment path towards one's goals; it is also its own reward. There is a sense of positive accomplishment through "cheating the system", "cutting through the bullshit" or "achieving something rare and praiseworthy" that is just as important as sex.

In essence, the primary reward that men get through direct game is feeling like a rock star. Every man wants to be a rock star just for its' own sake. Potential costs and benefits count too, of course, but this psychological factor is something unique to direct game; no one ever gets this ultimate emotional high from asking a girl when the next bus is coming along.

However, Roosh isn't here to make you into a rock star. He's here just to filter out mountains of information and provide you with a list of the most effective and/or efficient options.

Post: #34

Direct doesn't just have to be literally saying: "I want to fuck you".

I think direct means that you are communicating to the girl in the most honest way possible- your words, whatever they may be, carry intention..

You are directly communicating when you are present.

You have nothing to hide- there's no games that are being played.

Your words are real, and they are coming for an emotionally present place.

That's the language that girls speak.

You can have the most clever dialogue in the history of game, but if you aren't emotionally present, nothing will get communicated.

At the same time, the words you choose to say could be virtually gibberish, but if you are present, then the girl is going to hear you.

Post: #35

(03-11-2014 12:44 PM)soup Wrote:  Direct doesn't just have to be literally saying: "I want to fuck you".

I think direct means that you are communicating to the girl in the most honest way possible- your words, whatever they may be, carry intention..

You are directly communicating when you are present.

You have nothing to hide- there's no games that are being played.

Your words are real, and they are coming for an emotionally present place.

That's the language that girls speak.

You can have the most clever dialogue in the history of game, but if you aren't emotionally present, nothing will get communicated.

At the same time, the words you choose to say could be virtually gibberish, but if you are present, then the girl is going to hear you.

This. One of my biggest obstacles in indirect game is sounding genuine...because I'm more of a dry humor, quiet person, so rambling about a directions or what have you isn't something that lines up with my vibe. I've found that going direct when I can simply walk up to a girl to be very efficient in getting numbers that lead to dates that lead to bangs.

I've tried the london method and roosh's more indirect thing. Both have worked, to an extent, but what I see maximum results with is simply saying something like 'you are cute and I wanted to come over and see what you are like' (a la good looking loser) and then dial in the interaction from there. Then I'll ramble about indirect stuff, but getting your intention in off the bat...that's one of the smallest changes in my interactions that has yielded the largest amount of results.

Intention = I find you attractive, said in a classy way, without expectation of a response. Then change the subject. Similar to how you'd spark up a conversation with an interesting looking guy in a social situation. As a live musician I do that all the time between sets just to fend off boredom and it's lead to some hilarious and awesome situations, ie invitations to swingers parties

I was doing this stuff in Miami at first, and going indirect there...I have never seen girls more bored in a conversation. Guys are going direct everywhere in mia, but it's things like 'aye mami' or 'q culito' and when I did it right I found it to resonate.

When i left miami for the midwest the indirect stuff yielded better results than in florida, but still not as well as my direct style. It'd be great to hear more about direct/indirect by city for people who have tried both

Post: #36

(03-11-2014 02:06 PM)chambs88 Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 12:44 PM)soup Wrote:  Direct doesn't just have to be literally saying: "I want to fuck you".

I think direct means that you are communicating to the girl in the most honest way possible- your words, whatever they may be, carry intention..

You are directly communicating when you are present.

You have nothing to hide- there's no games that are being played.

Your words are real, and they are coming for an emotionally present place.

That's the language that girls speak.

You can have the most clever dialogue in the history of game, but if you aren't emotionally present, nothing will get communicated.

At the same time, the words you choose to say could be virtually gibberish, but if you are present, then the girl is going to hear you.

This. One of my biggest obstacles in indirect game is sounding genuine...because I'm more of a dry humor, quiet person, so rambling about a directions or what have you isn't something that lines up with my vibe. I've found that going direct when I can simply walk up to a girl to be very efficient in getting numbers that lead to dates that lead to bangs.

I've tried the london method and roosh's more indirect thing. Both have worked, to an extent, but what I see maximum results with is simply saying something like 'you are cute and I wanted to come over and see what you are like' (a la good looking loser) and then dial in the interaction from there. Then I'll ramble about indirect stuff, but getting your intention in off the bat...that's one of the smallest changes in my interactions that has yielded the largest amount of results.

Intention = I find you attractive, said in a classy way, without expectation of a response. Then change the subject. Similar to how you'd spark up a conversation with an interesting looking guy in a social situation. As a live musician I do that all the time between sets just to fend off boredom and it's lead to some hilarious and awesome situations, ie invitations to swingers parties

I was doing this stuff in Miami at first, and going indirect there...I have never seen girls more bored in a conversation. Guys are going direct everywhere in mia, but it's things like 'aye mami' or 'q culito' and when I did it right I found it to resonate.

When i left miami for the midwest the indirect stuff yielded better results than in florida, but still not as well as my direct style. It'd be great to hear more about direct/indirect by city for people who have tried both

These two posts really resonated with my thoughts on being indirect during day. When I approach indirectly, it does not feel genuine, to me at least, since I don't really care where the nearest mexican restaurant is, pet shop is, etc. Furthermore, I get lost in the conversation. In other words, when do I start moving the conversation towards obtaining her number, instant date, etc. In essence, this what I think soup means by being "emotionally present" - you're not really in the conversation since you're thinking about moving it forward.

I haven't done direct day game but it does sound appealing since it resolves the two issues I have with it.

I would also like to add that I think direct and indirect methods of approaching are very context/environment dependent. For example, in daygame, I noticed that Roosh referred to the coffee shop where the girls he approaches are sitting down and are going to be there for awhile. Meanwhile, if you look at good looking loser's video the majority of the girls he approaches are on the move. It has been my experience that when I approach a girl indirectly while she is not moving yields better results than a girl who is moving. Like I said earlier, I haven't done direct day game before but, I would like to test this idea out and see what happens.

Post: #37

I do direct for fun, adventure, research, and "charisma training"

I do indirect for meeting girls.

I often error on the side of direct because I entertain myself before I worry about entertaining her.

Post: #38

(03-10-2014 07:12 PM)soup Wrote:  All or nothing- it does just have to bel poking handsome. You can communicate value in other ways too. I think you need to show up with a lot confidence and charisma and frame

That makes sense to me.

I will be totally honest here, going up to a girl and telling her she is cute is outside of the realm of who I naturally am. I am a low energy, slow moving type of guy.

This is why I was railing against "direct game" so to speak.

I can see the value in going more direct once you have mastered less direct methods of meeting women, just to reach the next level and become even more bold.

(03-11-2014 05:25 AM)XXL Wrote:  It's when you mix it all together, interest, conversation skills, flirting, etc, and spray that mixture at the girl then it's great. That's what competent guys do. I've hung out with cool attractive guys who gamed all day all night and none of started with telling compliments right off the bat. Even when they did something similar it was more like a joke, something like "omg you look so cute and healthy lets make beautiful babies together" hahaha.

Personally I've always understood "direct" style as stepping up to the girl, expressing interest, showing your intentions and viewed overt compliments as just little part of the whole picture.

I agree with what you are saying.

Determining what is direct and indirect is just semantics at the end the end of the day.

Post: #39

In my experience direct day game works well on black girls. They are 'realer' in the sense that they don't delude themselves what men want from them--in fact, black girls despise indirect game for the plain fact that it's an obfuscation designed to camouflage men's true intention.

Garden-variety white and asian girls, on the other hand, buy into the princess mindset and often are turned off by the raw candidness of direct approaches. They prefer the flattery of indirect game, because it feeds their egos that men aren't "just into them for sex."

Post: #40

To me "game styles" are like martial arts styles.

If I am standing up, I will box. If I am on the ground, I will use Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Neither is better than the other. It all depends on what the situation is.

I've had girls sort of linger towards me and could tell they were a bit nervous and were waiting for me to open. In that case, I would go direct. "Look at you, standing here looking all cute in that long dress."

I've had girls show no interest and then I'd look over my shoulder, "Can you believe this place? The line is always out of control. I'm not sure why I stand here in it."

Since I have a certain aura about me, women are often drawn to me while also being a bit afraid of me. If I go indirect (which is what I did when first starting out), then I look creepy to women. I killed the vibe by being cowardly.

Direct shows courage. If you have a strong masculine vibe, you need to show courage. But you also need to disarm them. That's where a compliment comes in. You put them at ease.

Game is not religion. There is no One True Way that will save you soul.

Indirect game works where there isn't natural attraction and direct game works better when she's interested or shown some interest. (For me, anyway. For you? That's individual. We are all different.)

You use one game style when the situation calls for it an another when it doesn't.

Plus, you have to know yourself and know why you have the game style that you have.

http://dangerandplay.com/2012/02/23/why-...es-differ/

Post: #41

It's all in the delivery. There's a needy way to say "you're cute" to a girl and there is an alpha way to say the same words.

Post: #42

(03-11-2014 04:53 PM)soup Wrote:  It's all in the delivery. There's a needy way to say "you're cute" to a girl and there is an alpha way to say the same words.

I don't want to get too Zen....BUt....(there's always a but, isn't there?)

Compliment the girl without any expectation. That's the key.

If you compliment her because you're expecting something in return, you can come off as beta and try-hard. (It's a paradox because we expect to bang and that's the only reason we're talking to them in the first place.)

If you compliment her without any expectations, you are coming off more matter-of-fact. You are communicating, "I think you're cute. Maybe we'll hook up. Maybe we won't. I don't care one way or the other. I just say what's on my mind that the fact that you are cute happens to be on my mind."

Big smile and "you're cute" = needy.

No expression and "you're cute" = I'm making a matter of fact statement about the world.

It's all about your vibe.

Post: #43

(03-11-2014 04:59 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Compliment the girl without any expectation. That's the key.

If you compliment her because you're expecting something in return, you can come off as beta and try-hard. (It's a paradox because we expect to bang and that's the only reason we're talking to them in the first place.)

If you compliment her without any expectations, you are coming off more matter-of-fact. You are communicating, "I think you're cute. Maybe we'll hook up. Maybe we won't. I don't care one way or the other. I just say what's on my mind that the fact that you are cute happens to be on my mind."

Big smile and "you're cute" = needy.

No expression and "you're cute" = I'm making a matter of fact statement about the world.

It's all about your vibe.

That's very true.

I'd say that's THE key to complimenting the right way. It's like one way street of communication, you just letting her know what you think about her and casually carry on the convo without waiting for her to approve your comments. When done properly you automatically use breaking rapport tonality and your whole body language is more grounded and flowing, It's kind of zen but the devil is in details.

Good exercise to get the feel for it is to start talking AT the girl you already know from the start next time you see her. They call it setting the rhythm. It looks like this.. "Hi Marry.. nice glasses very distinctive they remind me of terminator 1 movie.. do you like my shirt? I look so hot when I wear it.. I've watched 'Rush' lately you have to see it it's amazing.. Hmm you look so adorable today, big date? Good for you I love those days too.. I got few dates coming up can't wait.. " So you just say random stuff at the girl [preferable about her] without expecting her to contribute at all. This way it's easy to learn how to lead and tell girls compliments without any sign of neediness. The vibe is like "this is what I think, this is what I think, this is what I think, etc".

Post: #44

It's kind of like playing the blues.. the chords are all pretty much the same, so a lot of it is in how you do it.

Post: #45

(03-11-2014 03:33 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I do direct for fun, adventure, research, and "charisma training"

I do indirect for meeting girls.

I often error on the side of direct because I entertain myself before I worry about entertaining her.

That's exactly how I approach it.

Today for example, I stood outside a coffee shop just smiled at girls saying "It's a beautiful day!" and gauged whether or not they wanted to continue.

I usually then dropped a compliment on some accessory: leggings, necklace, eye shadow...whatever.

But the whole idea this afternoon was not even to get a bang. It was to get myself in an even better mood by putting smiles on those bitches faces.

I go direct...very direct, when at a bar and looking for a ONS.

Indirect on the street if i'm very attracted to a girl and am willing to set up a date with her.

Post: #46

(03-11-2014 05:50 PM)XXL Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 04:59 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Compliment the girl without any expectation. That's the key.

If you compliment her because you're expecting something in return, you can come off as beta and try-hard. (It's a paradox because we expect to bang and that's the only reason we're talking to them in the first place.)

If you compliment her without any expectations, you are coming off more matter-of-fact. You are communicating, "I think you're cute. Maybe we'll hook up. Maybe we won't. I don't care one way or the other. I just say what's on my mind that the fact that you are cute happens to be on my mind."

Big smile and "you're cute" = needy.

No expression and "you're cute" = I'm making a matter of fact statement about the world.

It's all about your vibe.

That's very true.

I'd say that's THE key to complimenting the right way. It's like one way street of communication, you just letting her know what you think about her and casually carry on the convo without waiting for her to approve your comments. When done properly you automatically use breaking rapport tonality and your whole body language is more grounded and flowing, It's kind of zen but the devil is in details.

Good exercise to get the feel for it is to start talking AT the girl you already know from the start next time you see her. They call it setting the rhythm. It looks like this.. "Hi Marry.. nice glasses very distinctive they remind me of terminator 1 movie.. do you like my shirt? I look so hot when I wear it.. I've watched 'Rush' lately you have to see it it's amazing.. Hmm you look so adorable today, big date? Good for you I love those days too.. I got few dates coming up can't wait.. " So you just say random stuff at the girl [preferable about her] without expecting her to contribute at all. This way it's easy to learn how to lead and tell girls compliments without any sign of neediness. The vibe is like "this is what I think, this is what I think, this is what I think, etc".

In this sea of one way dialogue, the compliment doesn't matter.. you could be saying anything.

I've opened girls just by talking about them without even asking them anything.

One girl was sitting next to me waiting for the subway and I saw her writing down something in a notebook.

I didn't say "excuse me" or wave my hands in front of her.. I was actually sitting back on the bench, and she was leaning a little bit forward writing.

I just said:

"How refreshing it is to see some one actually writing something down instead of using their iphone"

She looked at me with a huge smile.

Was it a compliment? I couldn't tell you. She just happened to fill my preference at the moment with her action (hah naw I thought that one out on the spot )

When we were ending our six month fuck buddy situation, she told me that she "still remembers that you day you were talking to me in the subway "

Grand Polish tits on her. I miss them, but the relationships I get into these days are destined to fall apart after a short time.

"The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long"

Post: #47

I think of direct game as an abbreviated form of normal game. In places with minimal English skills it's a good idea to open many girls and not go for complicated indirect openers and the slower escalation. Running direct game in a major US metro region is dumb. Doing it on the streets of Some places in Africa can be very rewarding

Post: #48

(03-11-2014 12:44 PM)soup Wrote:  Direct doesn't just have to be literally saying: "I want to fuck you".

I think direct means that you are communicating to the girl in the most honest way possible- your words, whatever they may be, carry intention..

You are directly communicating when you are present.

You have nothing to hide- there's no games that are being played.

Your words are real, and they are coming for an emotionally present place.

That's the language that girls speak.

You can have the most clever dialogue in the history of game, but if you aren't emotionally present, nothing will get communicated.

At the same time, the words you choose to say could be virtually gibberish, but if you are present, then the girl is going to hear you.

soup this is a truly great post and says pretty much the most important things that can be said about talking to girls.

This:

Quote:You can have the most clever dialogue in the history of game, but if you aren't emotionally present, nothing will get communicated.

At the same time, the words you choose to say could be virtually gibberish, but if you are present, then the girl is going to hear you.

Post: #49

I don't do much daygame other than when I'm daytime drinking, so it kind of feels like nightgame anyway. I do much better going direct though. However, I need to really like the girl, so that I seem authentic and go all in.

If I do say something indirect, then I'll say something direct pretty much straight after, e.g. "Actually the real reason I talked to you is because I think you're pretty" because I just can't be arsed with being indirect.

I don't really feel like it's needy, as I will still find out what they are about, and qualify them on things other than their looks. I like what Soup and MikeCF said about their being a way to go direct without being needy.

Post: #50

(03-10-2014 09:20 PM)unbowed Wrote:  You have a point. In my experience, I don't find Anglo-American women fun to day game, because not only do they generally see pedestalization, but they have so little to work with compliment-wise besides a pretty face/body, so it's hard to come up with a genuine, unique compliment. They want to be admired for their careers and wit, how the hell do you compliment and tease that within 15 seconds on the street as she's power walking to Starbucks? And their smartphones and speed lunches don't really allow for a nice flowing ramble. Next.

This is very true. How do you overcome this? Sometimes there's nothing to comment on in the direct open. Sometimes if you run into a chick that likes to banter it can still work, but if it's a quiet girl she might genuinely like you but the attraction dies after 30 seconds as she realizes you're a one hit wonder… Some with a good heart try to help you, but most just let you sink.

I kind of like Ben and Charlie's (Kickass Academy) "So what else are you doing today besides picking up guys on the street?" Though I can't get it to come out sounding congruent and firm (not shaky).

(03-10-2014 09:20 PM)unbowed Wrote:  All I know is if I see a hot girl walking by, I'm not going to wait until I'm famous, have the right social circle or look. Balls to the wall, I'm going in and crashing for the 1000th time if I have to.

I talked to a guy and he mindfucked me into believing you gotta have the look right because women focus so much on their's they won't let you slide whether it's through laziness or ignorance (or maybe all ignorance is laziness). But I'd do well to repeat this 1000 times.

(03-11-2014 05:25 AM)XXL Wrote:  As a sidenote, remember who "invented" direct game as an overtly method of stating your sexual interest upfront. It was a bunch of nerds [guys who see everything as an algorithm] who got tired of messing up their chess game type of interactions and decided to tell girls what's up just out of their frustration. It worked a few times and it went from there.

But if you actually look at this pure direct game notion from the distance it seems so weird. Like, how socially inept someone has to be to follow the method of breaking the ice with a compliment every time. And what do they expect, that a girl will fall in love in 5 seconds and offer them to go fuck? It's sooo whack hahahaha. Can you imagine hanging out with a dude like that? Horrible.

It's the only thing that makes sense though in the context of you running up to someone. Are you really telling me you ran all the way over just to ask where the fucking pet shop is?

(03-11-2014 12:44 PM)soup Wrote:  Direct doesn't just have to be literally saying: "I want to fuck you".

I think direct means that you are communicating to the girl in the most honest way possible- your words, whatever they may be, carry intention..

You are directly communicating when you are present.

You have nothing to hide- there's no games that are being played.

Your words are real, and they are coming for an emotionally present place.

That's the language that girls speak.

You can have the most clever dialogue in the history of game, but if you aren't emotionally present, nothing will get communicated.

At the same time, the words you choose to say could be virtually gibberish, but if you are present, then the girl is going to hear you.

In that way, direct may be the most appropriate approach for newbies who have somewhat overcome approach anxiety. As a newbie you will have a difficult time conveying sexual intent because you haven't had enough of it to know what it is or have that killer instinct vibe (think of men who have been at war vs those who haven't). Verbalizing it may prevent you from getting thrown into the friend to friend box, but either way I think the success rate will probably be the same.

(03-11-2014 04:49 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Direct shows courage. If you have a strong masculine vibe, you need to show courage. But you also need to disarm them. That's where a compliment comes in. You put them at ease.

The funny thing is even for an individual guy this can vary by day. Some days you wake up feeling very masculine (read: horny) and the only thing that is congruent with it is running up and being "I wanna fuck you" direct (not those exact words obviously). Other days… it's "hey, I like your style…".