Post: #1

I recently got back from a trip to Peru for 11 days. I went to do a Ayahuasca retreat and some hiking in the Andes, not a bang mission. This was my first international trip outside of Montreal, and my first-ever solo trip.

Getting back to the USA (Dulles) the Border Protection/Customs agent asks me a lot of questions about my trip. Then he decides to search my bag. Fine whatever, I got nothing to hide. But then he finds my camera and proceeds to turn it on and look through every single picture, and I mean every last one.

Luckily I had deleted all the pics prior to taking the trip, so the ones on there were only of the mountains. Previously I had pictures/videos of my girlfriend naked on there, and all kinds of other shit. But I had moved them all to my computer before I left for Peru.

He finishes and goes "looks like you stayed at a nice place. I searched your stuff because we see a lot of people going to Peru for drugs and sex. Have a nice night". It was 2am, barely any sleep on bus the prior night, and I had to work the next day so I didn't say anything and just focusing on GTFO of there.

I expected to receive some scrutiny since I traveled solo to a top cocaine-producing country, but to turn on my camera and look through every single pic seemed excessive. Anybody else experience this? Is it legal?

Post: #2

Sorry to hear about your experience.

I cannot comment on this experience, but had a question sort of related for others who might know.

Had you had pics on your cell phone only, would they have made you sign in using your password to look at the pics? Could you refuse?

Post: #3

He prally just gets bored at work and likes looking at naked pics other guys took. I can't hate him for that. However I'm not sure what he could really say about it if he found naked pics of girls on there? Its not illegal to take pics of naked girls that are of age.

You could take it as a compliment that he singled you out cause you look like the kind of fella with game.

Post: #4

probably making sure you dont have child porn on camera. Bit Extreme

Post: #5

Yes, never keep any nude photos on your camera or computer when crossing international borders. Maintain the policy and you won't slip up and get caught with something that looks incriminating. In some countries you can get in legal trouble for having naked photos of even the adult local women when you leave.

Every time I land in the states, they go through all my shit. I don't remember if they flipped through my camera but they flipped through all my photos. The first time I had a bunch of pics of me and my girlfriend (normal photos, not nude), who, while 23, looked more like a 13 year old to the American eye. She looked about 17 to a Thai, so she already looked young even for her own race.

A bit uncomfortable to say the least....

Surely it got marked down in whatever little profile they already had running on me.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

Pretty standard experience as I travel a lot. Always encrypt all your digital media while traveling. Use free truecrypt.They can ask for your password but you don't have to give it to them. You have the right to remain silent at all times. They have the right to search everything ans ask questions - you have the right to tell them it's non of their business!

Post: #7

I'm sure one of the reasons is that Peru is known for underage prostitution rings. I remember a bunch of ads warning about it when I was down there years ago. I'd assume that hasn't changed.

Post: #8

I guess this is where you put stuff on the cloud.

I wonder how safe that cloud stuff is.

Post: #9

(03-03-2014 02:55 PM)poledaddy Wrote:  I recently got back from a trip to Peru for 11 days. I went to do a Ayahuasca retreat and some hiking in the Andes, not a bang mission. This was my first international trip outside of Montreal, and my first-ever solo trip.

Getting back to the USA (Dulles) the Border Protection/Customs agent asks me a lot of questions about my trip. Then he decides to search my bag. Fine whatever, I got nothing to hide. But then he finds my camera and proceeds to turn it on and look through every single picture, and I mean every last one.

Luckily I had deleted all the pics prior to taking the trip, so the ones on there were only of the mountains. Previously I had pictures/videos of my girlfriend naked on there, and all kinds of other shit. But I had moved them all to my computer before I left for Peru.

He finishes and goes "looks like you stayed at a nice place. I searched your stuff because we see a lot of people going to Peru for drugs and sex. Have a nice night". It was 2am, barely any sleep on bus the prior night, and I had to work the next day so I didn't say anything and just focusing on GTFO of there.

I expected to receive some scrutiny since I traveled solo to a top cocaine-producing country, but to turn on my camera and look through every single pic seemed excessive. Anybody else experience this? Is it legal?

Probably looking for either pics of drugs or child porn, obviously you can't get in trouble for having pics of an ex though you may not appreciate him looking at them.

On a note about civil liberties and such it's actually pretty scary some recent things the supreme court has rules in terms of the 4rth amendment and search and seizure. I believe even police on routine police stops it has been ruled can look through your phone and even hook some device up to your phone and clone your phone to go through it later and I'm pretty sure they ruled they can do this without a warrant, possibly even without probably cause as well.

Now it's pretty ridiculous when you compare it to the plain site doctrine which is basically if something is in view they can touch it or seize it if its illegal but can't go into a middle console for example or can't go into say an altoids case within a console.

I think if you have a password on your phone you hae somewhat more protection in terms of a right to privacy. Call me paranoid but I get kinda freaked out bringing my laptop out of the country because basically by entering the country they can take your laptop and look through it and hold it for pretty much eternity based on basically nothing.

Whether you have anything to hide or not I would recommend people keep pictures and other things either on the cloud or on encrypted parts of their drives. Everyone should look into something called PGP encryption, I believe it stands for pretty good privacy. Alot of times for business I need peop'es social security number and using PGP is a way to safely email it, they encrypt it with my public code and I need my private code to decrypt it. You can do the same thing with files and zip drives as well. I use portable pgp but there's kleopatra and a million others you can use as well. This is the same stuff people on deep web use. I believe gov uses it as well, basically uncrackable, maybe not by some genius but as far as TSA and homeland security go they dont care enough about you to try to crack it if they even could.

I'd encourage people to look into this. Even if your not super tech saavy its pretty easy to use, I figured it out so you can easily as well and plenty of youtube tutorials on how to do this.

Post: #10

Customs use profiling a lot. Last year I went to Asia for most of the year, and when I got back my passport obviously tripped a switch to make a sniffer dog appear out of a side door. Glad I have no interest in drugs!

The only time customs have been through my stuff was my first visit to Japan and the Japanese guy went through my case apparently looking for snakes and copies of Playboy magazine. Luckily I was carrying neither.

Post: #11

(03-03-2014 04:12 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  I guess this is where you put stuff on the cloud.

I wonder how safe that cloud stuff is.

I researched that issue several years ago. You need an encrypted cloud data service, where the data is encrypted (1) not only during the upload but also (2) during storage (using an encryption key that only you possess).

I have used Wuala for several years. It is located in Switzerland and your data is therefore subject to Switzerland's strict privacy laws. Its servers are located elsewhere in Europe (France and Germany, if I remember correctly) -- and not in the U.S.

Most importantly, without the encryption key (which only you possess), even Wuala itself cannot access your data -- even if the Swiss government were to issue a subpoena to another government for your information.

I have used Wuala for several years now without any problems. It offers a 5GB account for free, which is more than enough storage for most personal accounts. Just remember, if you ever forget your password, you lose all your data. Even Wuala itself cannot retrieve it.

http://www.wuala.com/

Whatever you do, do not use an unencrypted cloud data service for sensitive information -- or use a cloud data service located in the U.S. (whether encrypted or not = too many potential back doors). Unfortunately, that eliminates about 99% of all cloud data services.

Store your music in one of those large free U.S.-based cloud storage services. Who cares. But carefully protect your private information.

Post: #12

Last time I flew out of Dulles, the Homeland Security guy threw out stuff from my carry on that had been ok on the previous 2 domestic flights.

A local guy I met in DC said that there are 7 different govt enforcement agencies in the area that do not like each other or cooperate. Creates an atmosphere like the FSU in the old days. Welcome to the "land of the free".

Post: #13

(03-03-2014 03:51 PM)Wayout Wrote:  Pretty standard experience as I travel a lot. Always encrypt all your digital media while traveling. Use free truecrypt.They can ask for your password but you don't have to give it to them. You have the right to remain silent at all times. They have the right to search everything ans ask questions - you have the right to tell them it's non of their business!

Truecrypt is a good option. Just be aware that border security agents in a few countries (e.g., the UK) can legally demand your password and arrest you if you do not supply it.

In answer to the OP's original question, it depends on where you enter the U.S. The appellate court that encompasses the West Coast has protected data on laptops, while the courts on the East Coast have not. The U.S. Supreme Court will need to eventually settle the issue.

I did my research and opened a Wuala account when I began reading these articles a few years ago. An article about the most recent case:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/DHS-searches-b.../id/544642

Post: #14

Ive never worried about it, but I think all I'd do is move any sensitive stuff to an obscure directory and delete my cookies. Any more seems like overkill.

Post: #15

(03-03-2014 07:03 PM)Antipodean Wrote:  Last time I flew out of Dulles, the Homeland Security guy threw out stuff from my carry on that had been ok on the previous 2 domestic flights.

A local guy I met in DC said that there are 7 different govt enforcement agencies in the area that do not like each other or cooperate. Creates an atmosphere like the FSU in the old days. Welcome to the "land of the free".

TSA is not customs. Customs guys are generally pretty cool and interesting dudes, though you get the occasional stiff. Give a CBP guy a beer and you'll be sure to hear some very interesting stories.

Post: #16

A similar thing happened to me in toronto upon my return from Colombia. Got sent to secondary inspection where I was asked to unlock my blackberry - he went through all my emails - I guess to see if I was up to anything - he also went through my notebook where I had my shoring notes . Lasted about 30 minutes . Good thing I am so clean I shit bars of soap. So glad i didn't have any pics of chicas on my phone. Customs agents have broad sweeping authority so I don't think you have the right to be silent or withhold passwords. Any lawyers here? Please chirp in

Note that when entering and leaving cuba that pornography is illegal and any nude photos you have could get you and the Chica in trouble.

Post: #17

(03-03-2014 07:12 PM)El_gato Wrote:  A similar thing happened to me in toronto upon my return from Colombia. Got sent to secondary inspection where I was asked to unlock my blackberry - he went through all my emails - I guess to see if I was up to anything - he also went through my notebook where I had my shoring notes . Lasted about 30 minutes . Good thing I am so clean I shit bars of soap. So glad i didn't have any pics of chicas on my phone. Customs agents have broad sweeping authority so I don't think you have the right to be silent or withhold passwords. Any lawyers here? Please chirp in

This kind of stuff absolutely makes my blood boil. It's such a breach of every right we are supposed to have.

I would refuse to allow them to look through my emails. my computer is password protected along with my iphone. I wouldn't give it up. I'm coming back to the US from colombia in about a week.

Post: #18

They will make your "customs experience" very uncomfortable - especially in the USA which make our guys look like a bunch of choir boys. Just be prepared to disclose and don't resist...

Post: #19

(03-03-2014 07:45 PM)El_gato Wrote:  They will make your "customs experience" very uncomfortable - especially in the USA which make our guys look like a bunch of choir boys. Just be prepared to disclose and don't resist...

So I have to back up all my shit on to some encrypted cloud? can I do that with all my texts as well? I mean, it doesn't matter I guess, but the worst case for me is if they take my devices and make a straight copy.

I don't even know how cloud services work.

Post: #20

I'm interested on opinions from you guys, think this was constitutional? I would have asked him to get a warrant or have him tell me what his probable cause is.

Post: #21

Quote:Customs agents have broad sweeping authority so I don't think you have the right to be silent or withhold passwords. Any lawyers here? Please chirp in

If you're a US citizen, they legally cannot deny you entry to your country. If, for instance, you password protect your phone and refuse to give them the code, unless they can charge you for a crime, they cannot not let you in. The most they can do is delay you for a few hours.

Quote:I'm interested on opinions from you guys, think this was constitutional? I would have asked him to get a warrant or have him tell me what his probable cause is.

You give up your constitutional rights against warrantless searches at an airport. You cannot refuse a search and they do not require probable cause to search. See here:

http://boardingarea.com/flyingwithfish/2...amendment/
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/08...says-trav/

That said, again TSA agents cannot not allow you into your country. Unless they have something they can press charges on, they have to let you go.

Note: Not a lawyer. Just a frequent traveler who's read up on some of this stuff.

Post: #22

^TSA agents are not customs agents!

Post: #23

(03-03-2014 08:14 PM)JJJames Wrote:  

Quote:Customs agents have broad sweeping authority so I don't think you have the right to be silent or withhold passwords. Any lawyers here? Please chirp in

If you're a US citizen, they legally cannot deny you entry to your country. If, for instance, you password protect your phone and refuse to give them the code, unless they can charge you for a crime, they cannot not let you in. The most they can do is delay you for a few hours.

You are missing the issue completely. The issue is whether they can legally search your electronic devices. They can certainly let you back into the U.S., while also confiscating your device if you refuse to provide a password. They will then crack the password and mail the device back to you.

Are you going to get into a fist fight with border agents -- or act proactively to protect your privacy?

Post: #24

(03-03-2014 08:21 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-03-2014 08:14 PM)JJJames Wrote:  

Quote:Customs agents have broad sweeping authority so I don't think you have the right to be silent or withhold passwords. Any lawyers here? Please chirp in

If you're a US citizen, they legally cannot deny you entry to your country. If, for instance, you password protect your phone and refuse to give them the code, unless they can charge you for a crime, they cannot not let you in. The most they can do is delay you for a few hours.

You are missing the issue completely. The issue is whether they can legally search your electronic devices. They can certainly let you into the U.S., while confiscating your device.

Are you going to get into a fist fight with TSA agents -- or act proactively?

Fist fight. That is proactive, they won't fuck with me next time.

Post: #25

Ok, so you can delete everything from your devices....that's one way to prevent them from invading your privacy.

But El Gato says they went through his EMAILS. What happens if you refuse to give them access to emails? Can they force you to give them your facebook password, skype, etc???

Couldn't they ask for entrance to your encrypted cloud account?