Post: #1

“Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”
― Winston Churchill

I heard this quote from Winston Churchill a few years ago and at time I thought nothing of it.

Recently I have thought back to it and realized that this articulates my evolution of fundamental viewpoints quite well.

Although I am still very much a young man (I'm in my early 20's) I have found that in the last few years my traditionally liberal leaning opinions have moved further to the right.

Although I don't truly identify with any political group, I think it's interesting that as I get older I see more and more aspects of liberal viewpoints as being ridiculous, vegetarianism, white guilt and feminism to name but a few.

My question is this has anyone else had this experience and what do you think is the root cause of evolving from a liberal standpoint to a more conservative one as you get older?

Post: #2

Sort of, now that I know much more about the world, things that I thought were simple, really are not.

But at no point have I adopted republican, tea party, national review, libertarian ideals, or what other folks call conservative.

I always see problems with implementation and consequences, liberal or conservative. And professionally, seeing how both big corporations and government work, I'm continually amazed that anything gets done at all.

WIA

Post: #3

(01-31-2014 09:35 AM)Seanchaí Wrote:  “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”
― Winston Churchill

I heard this quote from Winston Churchill a few years ago and at time I thought nothing of it.

Recently I have thought back to it and realized that this articulates my evolution of fundamental viewpoints quite well.

Although I am still very much a young man (I'm in my early 20's) I have found that in the last few years my traditionally liberal leaning opinions have moved further to the right.

Although I don't truly identify with any political group, I think it's interesting that as I get older I see more and more aspects of liberal viewpoints as being ridiculous, vegetarianism, white guilt and feminism to name but a few.

My question is this has anyone else had this experience and what do you think is the root cause of evolving from a liberal standpoint to a more conservative one as you get older?

I have been experiencing it as well.

It has more or less been rooted in the "Give a man a fish" philosophy. I've noticed that the majority of people just want to get by.

For me, I started stepping out of sync with the liberal party lines when it came to the 2nd amendment. I've always been pro gun ownership. Never a question about it. It made even more sense to me as I got older. From there, my political learnings moved.

Although, it's not conservatism in the bible thumping way. It's almost like a third party that takes the best of both parties.

I've been sensing a current shift in political dogma lately. Even among my more liberal learning friends.

Post: #4

Agreed. Students are generally left-wing by default. Certainly in the UK the whole education system is leftwing, and this is a primary reason for many well to do businessmen to send their kids to private school.

Myself, I was never really left wing, and being exposed to the shooting community (UK that is, much tamer than the US!) gave me more right wing beliefs than many of my peers and certainly than my parents, who are both left of centre.

@ Frenchie- re the third party. As you may know, at the last UK General Election the Conservatives were forced into a Coalition agreement with the Liberal Democrats. I genuinely hoped it would be the start of something decent, as you said, taking the best of both parties. Unfortunately it has been a clusterfuck of a series of the worst compromises possible.

Post: #5

Our conservative government is poor at best.

I'm UKIP myself.

Post: #6

Quote:what do you think is the root cause of evolving from a liberal standpoint to a more conservative one as you get older?

The young lean left because:

- They are optimistic and idealistic. Everyone should be equal! Healthcare for all! There is no good reason for war! As people grow older, they realize that the world is not a utopia and that compromises need to be made. Stuff costs money. There is endless demand and limited resources. Human nature is potentially brutish, selfish, and cruel. And life is definitely not fair.

- All they know is a paternalistic system. Kids are inherently weak, both physically and mentally. Therefore, they are ruled by mommy and daddy. Having a government that fills a parent role, which is a leftist view, makes sense. As they grow older, they tend to gain their own strength, which causes them to question the necessity of big government.

- Young people are usually members of the public education system. The teachers, who are almost universally left-leaning, tend to instill their own values in students. The young are not good at thinking critically, and will absorb what is taught to them. As they grow older, they leave the education system and may have the ability to think critically, which allows them to challenge the views that they were taught.

These are the three main reasons that I can think of.

Post: #7

I've seen that quote a few times, albeit in differing forms. It isn't Churchill.

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains."

Often attributed to Winston Churchill. The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations

Post: #8

(01-31-2014 09:35 AM)Seanchaí Wrote:  My question is this has anyone else had this experience and what do you think is the root cause of evolving from a liberal standpoint to a more conservative one as you get older?

As one gets older and acquires knowledge and experience, you gain perspective on how the world works.
You hold on to the knowledge that works and has worked and you ditch the rest.

That is the essence, basically.

Post: #9

Yes, i'm 28 now and my political stance is now centre right whereas it used to be left when I was younger. I would prob vote conservative now in the UK whereas before I voted liberal democrats. I would still vote democrat in the US though as republicans are too far right for me.

Post: #10

"Evolving from a liberal ideology to a more conservative one"


But don't vote blindly Republican or Tory (in the UK)--they will disappoint you with their BS flip flops and lies.

Post: #11

In the USA "conservative" is misused, unless you are talking about Ron Paul or possibly Pat Buchanan.

Most American self-described "conservatives" are warmongers and shills for the police state and the unbridled corporate power which is trammeling the family, religion, small business and traditional culture.

My own politics are highly individual, part Ron Paul, part Bernie Sanders. In the USA, I usually get to vote for the lesser of two evils, or not at all.

Post: #12

(01-31-2014 04:17 PM)Teedub Wrote:  I've seen that quote a few times, albeit in differing forms. It isn't Churchill.

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains."

Often attributed to Winston Churchill. The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations

Thanks for the correction Teedub it seems that it is becoming ever more common in an age of instantaneous information that we're finding out that a lot of great quotes and speeches are plagiarized. For instance Martin Luther King Jnr. was guilty of plagiarizing his doctorate and many of his speeches had elements of other peoples work, but that's another discussion.
http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index.php/...g_jr_1955/

Post: #13

(01-31-2014 05:04 PM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  "Evolving from a liberal ideology to a more conservative one"


But don't vote blindly Republican or Tory (in the UK)--they will disappoint you with their BS flip flops and lies.

I agree Flavius as the old Bill Hicks goes:"Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!" I don't identify with any political party. I simply find that in the last few years my views are becoming more in sync with people on the right. I would have never predicted this especially when I was in university blindly agreeing with every popular liberal talking point simply because people on the left appeared more intelligent which lead me to believe they must be right.

Post: #14

(01-31-2014 12:42 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:what do you think is the root cause of evolving from a liberal standpoint to a more conservative one as you get older?

The young lean left because:

- They are optimistic and idealistic. Everyone should be equal! Healthcare for all! There is no good reason for war! As people grow older, they realize that the world is not a utopia and that compromises need to be made. Stuff costs money. There is endless demand and limited resources. Human nature is potentially brutish, selfish, and cruel. And life is definitely not fair.

- All they know is a paternalistic system. Kids are inherently weak, both physically and mentally. Therefore, they are ruled by mommy and daddy. Having a government that fills a parent role, which is a leftist view, makes sense. As they grow older, they tend to gain their own strength, which causes them to question the necessity of big government.

- Young people are usually members of the public education system. The teachers, who are almost universally left-leaning, tend to instill their own values in students. The young are not good at thinking critically, and will absorb what is taught to them. As they grow older, they leave the education system and may have the ability to think critically, which allows them to challenge the views that they were taught.

These are the three main reasons that I can think of.

I stopped self-identifying as left or right years ago. Left and right do not do justice to the panoply of political ideology available to an intelligent, discerning individual.

That said, on many issues people here might consider me leftist. But I don't think that excludes me from being able to identify strongly with many of the beliefs of fellow RVF'ers.

I think that I'm simply a realist. Realistically, from my experiences anyway, people deserve what the Aussies call 'fair play' - everyone deserves a fair shot at being great, and being the best they can be, of being successful in their own manner.

When people believe that their world does not allow them a fair go, they tend to fuck with the system, leading to violence and disruption. That is, crime and reliance on welfare, among other things. Treat a thug like a thug and that is what he will be. Treat everyone like the king that he can be and he will act the part.

You might call that leftist, I call it realist. Realistically, that means that you have to invest in people heavily with access to quality education and a universal, public health system.

Yes, we should leave people alone as much as possible, but first you have to fuck with them and instill in them the desire to be great, and make them identify positively with contributing to a society that has treated them well. Fail at that, and they will destroy you.

Post: #15

(01-31-2014 09:35 AM)Seanchaí Wrote:  “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”
― Winston Churchill

I saw Ron Paul read that quote during a speech and say, "now why can't you have a brain AND a heart?"

Everyone cheered.

Post: #16

What Peregrine said. Everyone in the public school system gets indoctrinated in the ways of feminism/liberalism early, starting with grade school. Boys are not allowed to be boys. Boys are made to behave the way girls do. Universities only serve to perpetuate liberalism. Once you get out into the real world and see things as they are, and see reality for what it is, you realize that liberalism might not be what you once thought it was.

Post: #17

In my youth I was left, by my mid 20s I was right. Then after 8 years of Bush I moved back left-ward.

Post: #18

I think this is very common. My personal awakening might sound trivial, but happened after there was a blackout in the city and the radio/tv news and fellow students were hyped up about how chaos would certainly ensue. What I saw going home from class however was traffic that was flowing much more smoothly without traffic lights, people giving way, being considerate, despite no one telling them what to do. That sparked something which then led me to question if all these things we had been told about the big bad dangerous world was really true, were we really that bad people, that helpless, to need a big government?

Then I travelled and after that there was no way I could buy the leftist world view anymore. Just a few trips to lesser developed countries and things were crystal clear. I learned that I could do so much more than what I had thought, that I had personal power and personal choice in my life.

Post: #19

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_right_paradigm

Post: #20

Just had the same thought the other day. I considered myself a leftist for a long time, and I still am on most issues. But I have had enough debates with progressives on red-pill issues, and there is something sick with them. The smugness, sanctimony, the immediate recourse to vicious personal attacks, illogical and contradictory arguments, denial of any sort of evolutionary psychology, fake facts, twisting and lying about what I've said...it's just as anti-factual and anti-reason as any creationist.

I think narcissism gets thrown around too much as an easy diagnosis, but I can't think of a better word. They are committed to an image of themselves as the good guys, oppposed only by evil knuckle-dragging rednecks right out of Easy Rider. Threaten their self-image and they respond with blind rage (witness all the "So. Much. Rage." comments on Jezebel).

When I get in these debates, whatever the actual topic is, the point is never how to reduce oppression in the world. The point is that I am a bad person and they are good people. It's a sickness. I don't know how else to say it. There is something wrong with them, and with their whole cognitive approach to the world.

So I find myself less simpatico with aspects of the left. Not that I care for the right either--it isn't red pill, just white-knight and anti-sex.

Post: #21

One thing you could do is avoid the gross oversimplification of left versus right.

It is simply a technique used to divert attention from various specific issues that need to be addressed individually, with work,
time, effort and not jingoism.

Post: #22

I used to be a more liberal, then I became more conservative..

Now, I just take it one issue at a time.

They are both stupid sometimes, but, both are needed at times.

For example, I like a big strong military but I think prostitution should be legal and regulated.

Post: #23

It's hard to escape the progressive matrix in America. When I was in high school I discovered that the prime motivation of progressives was not fairness, openness, honesty, anti-racism, or whatever. It was the outright destruction of Western Civilization. Still I thought well, they know better than I do. Sounds good. Cool. Even made it through college as a progressive.

But then I saw I didn't like what was replacing Western Civilization. I didn't find it better, freer, more fair or more honest. I found it more costly, more twisted, more dishonest, more uncaring and more brutal. Of course, as a member of Western Civilization, I'm biased.

I don't get involved with anyone's personal beliefs or predilections, only with the nature and tenor of the public square. I see a good people's politics as an artifice erected as close to perfection as possible, as if a standing threat to government, tyrants, hucksters, bankers, and other parasites that they are not a people to be fucked with. Then, in general, you get a people that aren't going to be fucked with.

Pretty much the opposite of everything we have now.

Post: #24

The symbol of justice are the scales. It means "true" justice is realized when the letter of the law (Masculine) is tempered with mercy for individual circumstances (Feminine).

Everything in the wold is made up this metaphysical dichotomy. Politics as well. It's great your evolving into a more Conservative (Masculine) point of view, but remember there also needs to be a place for Mercy.

Post: #25

(02-01-2014 04:18 PM)Onto Wrote:  The symbol of justice are the scales. <b>It means "true" justice is realized when the letter of the law (Masculine) is tempered with mercy for individual circumstances (Feminine).</b>

Everything in the wold is made up this metaphysical dichotomy. Politics as well. It's great your evolving into a more Conservative (Masculine) point of view, but remember there also needs to be a place for Mercy.

You do realize that in the full personification, the bitch is blindfolded.