Post: #26

I've found a way to end all that BS, it's more of a mindset than actual process...
1. I only interact face to face
2. I NEVER CALL CHICKS
3. I do not TEXT "back and forth" at all and use texting for logistical purposes
4. I give my number (and have her text me her name)
5. "Zero Fucks Are Given"...I simply live my life, she was given an opportunity it's her responsibility to take charge of her own life
6. I DO NOT DO DAY2s or DATES

Basically, I simply live my life and from time to time invite a chick to come along. The CONSISTENCY has been rather solid in the sense that usually within that month I see MAJORITY of the women. Reason I say a MONTH is because I've become very very flakey and barely invite people along anymore. Like, I already KNOW i'm going to be doing it up on whatever day I'm thinking of. It's not my job to try and persuade her or try to convince her. Not my issue if she passes up an opportunity, meanwhile Ima live it up!!

INVITE, INVITE, INVITE

Thing is lots of chicks started texting me out of the blue and more times than not, I've ATLEAST madeout with a chick. DISCLAIMER, this could potentially turn you into a flake because you don't care whether she comes out or not to the point that you don't even care to send an invite anymore since you will have another adventure anyway and meet new people.

Chicks can tell when I exchange numbers that I don't care to the point that I honestly might not ever send them an invite. I guess this compells them to NOT play games because whether they come or not would only be affecting them, I was already doing whatever it is I invited them too. Obviously as a chick gains status in my eyes I become more flexible "locking in" cool shit to do...AND, I just invite more people to come along. So instead of her and I going to dinner, it's her and 2 other girls I invited out.

P.S..Day2s and dates are the worst things ever, haven't been on a date in AGES. I don't even know if I even hungout with a chick 1 on 1 in 2013 :o

Post: #27

Women are gonna flake so I began to schedule 2 or 3 dates at the same time. This has helped me tremendously. It allow me to cancel on chicks when I know I have a confirmed date. Confirmed means we have spoken one hour before our date. If both are available, then I choose the one that I had the best vibe with when we first met.

Post: #28

(12-08-2013 07:46 PM)soup Wrote:  ... because most people are to pussy to actually make plans these days ...

This is golden. Even more so, most people are too pussy to do anything out of their comfort zone, even when the potential gain is very high.

With age I've come to understand what is even more important than you being a great guy:

Most girls will actually pass on a great guy and end up with a mediocre guy if getting together with the great guy requires any effort on their side. And by effort I mean even the need for them to do something different than their normal routine. The only time they might be inclined to get out of their comfort zone is in times of extreme loneliness, or a pressing need to marry someone well-off, or some other distress.

Now the next question is: Is it out of their comfort zone to go out on a date (or just coffee) with someone they met only once? I think that for American girls this is more normal than in other cultures. And by the way with the current state of affairs (expectation of entitlements like a princess) you still need to be about 2-3 points higher than herself (on a 1-10 scale) for her to consider you a potential match and be willing to allocate any time for you. And even then, while some girls will actually make an effort to be with you if they consider you valuable enough, others will not (while they actually do like you and want you) and when they end up alone they will hate your guts because you weren't persistent enough and you didn't call her for the 11-th time after she dismissed you or ignored you 10 times.

Now we come to the million dollar question: How do you arrange your life so that the women you like will just happen to be around you (multiple times) WITHOUT ANY EFFORT FROM THEM and it will be very natural for them to end up in your bed?

Post: #29

(12-09-2013 08:01 AM)Caveman Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 07:46 PM)soup Wrote:  ... because most people are to pussy to actually make plans these days ...

This is golden. Even more so, most people are too pussy to do anything out of their comfort zone, even when the potential gain is very high.

With age I've come to understand what is even more important than you being a great guy:

Most girls will actually pass on a great guy and end up with a mediocre guy if getting together with the great guy requires any effort on their side. And by effort I mean even the need for them to do something different than their normal routine. The only time they might be inclined to get out of their comfort zone is in times of extreme loneliness, or a pressing need to marry someone well-off, or some other distress.

Now the next question is: Is it out of their comfort zone to go out on a date (or just coffee) with someone they met only once? I think that for American girls this is more normal than in other cultures. And by the way with the current state of affairs (expectation of entitlements like a princess) you still need to be about 2-3 points higher than herself (on a 1-10 scale) for her to consider you a potential match and be willing to allocate any time for you. And even then, while some girls will actually make an effort to be with you if they consider you valuable enough, others will not (while they actually do like you and want you) and when they end up alone they will hate your guts because you weren't persistent enough and you didn't call her for the 11-th time after she dismissed you or ignored you 10 times.

Now we come to the million dollar question: How do you arrange your life so that the women you like will just happen to be around you (multiple times) WITHOUT ANY EFFORT FROM THEM and it will be very natural for them to end up in your bed?

Yes, this is a huge problem. Many women will pass on a good connection because of fear of the unknown. As men, we are wired towards adventure, women are not. Therefore, social circle game is the most effective kind of game in terms of ratios, but I can't be bothered with it.

I guess all we can do is make the desire and investment as strong as possible and hope for the best, but flakes will come. She will always have to make the effort of showing up to the date, so there is no way around this. I have tried talking to women about how one must live life and take risks, but it is pointless. My words during the set do not offset her fear at all.

Post: #30

(12-09-2013 08:01 AM)Caveman Wrote:  Now we come to the million dollar question: How do you arrange your life so that the women you like will just happen to be around you (multiple times) WITHOUT ANY EFFORT FROM THEM and it will be very natural for them to end up in your bed?

Routine. routine. routine.

Do the same things every week at the same times. You will start seeing the same people week after week. Eventually they'll become familiar and if there's a girl you think is hot you can ask her out and it will feel like the most natural thing in the world.

Post: #31

@soup

If we haven't done the deed, I assume she doesn't really remember my name and who I am.

The futility of text game is trying to recreate the emotional atmosphere in 140 characters.

Post: #32

(12-09-2013 08:55 AM)Ensam Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 08:01 AM)Caveman Wrote:  Now we come to the million dollar question: How do you arrange your life so that the women you like will just happen to be around you (multiple times) WITHOUT ANY EFFORT FROM THEM and it will be very natural for them to end up in your bed?

Routine. routine. routine.

Do the same things every week at the same times. You will start seeing the same people week after week. Eventually they'll become familiar and if there's a girl you think is hot you can ask her out and it will feel like the most natural thing in the world.

The problem with social circle game is that you are working on one girl at a time, you waste a lot of time and the chances of it going wrong are higher than otherwise.

I would much rather play the odds with cold approach than waste my time doing that.

Post: #33

(12-09-2013 08:55 AM)Ensam Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 08:01 AM)Caveman Wrote:  Now we come to the million dollar question: How do you arrange your life so that the women you like will just happen to be around you (multiple times) WITHOUT ANY EFFORT FROM THEM and it will be very natural for them to end up in your bed?

Routine. routine. routine.

Do the same things every week at the same times. You will start seeing the same people week after week. Eventually they'll become familiar and if there's a girl you think is hot you can ask her out and it will feel like the most natural thing in the world.

Routine yes, but not any routine, I don't need to see random people regularly, I want bangable women only. And you need them in high quantity because you won't be able to get most of them for reasons out of your control (she's in love, she likes blacks only, she's only after millionaires, etc). And you don't need to see them a million times, seeing them for about 5 times should be more than enough.

I've been thinking that the ideal occupation for this would be a bartender or something similar, but that's a topic for another thread and unfortunately we still didn't answer the OP's question about reducing flakiness on girls he approaches on the street.

Post: #34

(12-08-2013 04:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  To finish my thoughts on the matter, you have to have the right attitude about flaking.

Which is? Not giving a f*ck if she flakes or not.

I am going out anyway, and if this girl wants to come for the ride, great. If not, that's great too.

She is a moron to not go out with me. It's her loss. You have to really believe that. If you don't really believe that? Fake it till you make it.

If you live in the right place and have your act together, there are girls on every block. One doesn't want you? You will see 10 girls equally as hot in the next half hour.

As you reach closer and closer to the pinnacle of Game, flaking doesn't matter. It is a good thing. You are weeding girls out.

Your biggest problems start becoming scheduling and keeping girls in line.

And keeping enough free time to drink fresh blood.

Good problems to have.

Case in point, I had 3 meetups scheduled for Saturday. 1 was a return customer, 1 is a solid prospect and the other two were late additions that agreed to meet up at my lock down spot.

I make a point to hangout with the solid recruit earlier in the day (met for drinks), then move on to the less solid ones. Knew it was a bad omen when I get a text from contestant # 2, says she's "not feeling well" and can't meet up and she hopes "I can still make other plans". No problem. Didn't bat an eye as "G" said. I then head to the lock down spot, where # 3 was set to meet up at 4pm. Entered the place, got my tall cup of Chai and chilled with the newspaper. After about 15 mins or so had passed, I knew that the bitch had flaked but again no biggie I actually caught a HAPPY vibe because it IS all a WEEDING OUT process. Number deleted. My Game just rewinds.

1 down ass chick is worth 5 flaking ass yamps. Anyday.

Post: #35

You reduce flaking when you get so many girls you are flaking on them

Post: #36

(12-09-2013 12:23 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  You reduce flaking when you get so many girls you are flaking on them

Very good.

The reverse/negative flaking. The question isn't "how do I reduce flaking?" maybe it should be "how can I use all of these girls attention to get more out of life?"

If you are a musician, you can invite them to shows. If you make money as a promoter, you can invite them to your club.

This is when the tables are turned.

Post: #37

(12-09-2013 05:38 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  I've found a way to end all that BS, it's more of a mindset than actual process...
1. I only interact face to face
2. I NEVER CALL CHICKS
3. I do not TEXT "back and forth" at all and use texting for logistical purposes
4. I give my number (and have her text me her name)
5. "Zero Fucks Are Given"...I simply live my life, she was given an opportunity it's her responsibility to take charge of her own life
6. I DO NOT DO DAY2s or DATES

Basically, I simply live my life and from time to time invite a chick to come along. The CONSISTENCY has been rather solid in the sense that usually within that month I see MAJORITY of the women. Reason I say a MONTH is because I've become very very flakey and barely invite people along anymore. Like, I already KNOW i'm going to be doing it up on whatever day I'm thinking of. It's not my job to try and persuade her or try to convince her. Not my issue if she passes up an opportunity, meanwhile Ima live it up!!

INVITE, INVITE, INVITE

Thing is lots of chicks started texting me out of the blue and more times than not, I've ATLEAST madeout with a chick. DISCLAIMER, this could potentially turn you into a flake because you don't care whether she comes out or not to the point that you don't even care to send an invite anymore since you will have another adventure anyway and meet new people.

Chicks can tell when I exchange numbers that I don't care to the point that I honestly might not ever send them an invite. I guess this compells them to NOT play games because whether they come or not would only be affecting them, I was already doing whatever it is I invited them too. Obviously as a chick gains status in my eyes I become more flexible "locking in" cool shit to do...AND, I just invite more people to come along. So instead of her and I going to dinner, it's her and 2 other girls I invited out.

P.S..Day2s and dates are the worst things ever, haven't been on a date in AGES. I don't even know if I even hungout with a chick 1 on 1 in 2013 :o

This is great.

Do you have them text you on the spot? Can you give an example of how this has gone down in the past?

Post: #38

It is true that many women would rather go with a mediocre man for the confort rather than try a superior man for fear of just because it means they have to invest on hteir part. In my opinion, truly independent men are better without those kind of women. You cannot possibly expect good sex or excitement from such a conformist woman.

Post: #39

Volume, volume, volume, volume.

If there's anything that being in the game teaches us it's that there's always more. Double and triple book. When you flake on them because you had multiple arrivals it builds your value.

As soon as you get too caught up in getting any specific chick, you've lost. G Manifesto has it right: Do. Not. Give. A. Fuck. Period. If she shows, great let's go. If not then Plan B or Plan C. This is another good reason to have a few minis going on, or a dedicated harem. The dick will never go hungry.

Think of flaking like gravity. It's an irresistible force, a constant and it affects us all. You can't get rid of it, but you can compensate for it. Rather than flapping our arms and hoping for a miracle, we should just build airplanes.

Post: #40

I can be pretty flakey myself. Hectic schedule at times. Last minute jobs and such have me cancel on girls quite a bit.
Some girls get on me about it. Puts shit into perspective for me. Usually it makes them like me more though, not less.
It's not that I don't want to see them. Sometimes I just have things I have to do.

I think girls are different though majority of the time. The reason they flake can be for all types of stuff.

Maybe they just wanted an ego boost and never planned on seeing you. Maybe they got scared. Maybe they smoked a joint and became paranoid. Maybe they have a pimple or feel fat that day.

I think the best thing to do is give them the benefit of the doubt and just not really care. Or flake first somehow. Or just come across as flakey. If you flake first her guard will go way down and the hamster will start doing some warm-ups. Now the ball is in your court. She knows you really are indifferent to chilling with her and that can turn her on. I've been experimenting with this. I will ask a girl when she is available and then hit her up spur of the moment at those times if I'm free and see if she's down to chill. (Basically I never set shit in stone days in advance.) If not I don't worry and try again another time.

In my experience girls are more liable to flake when you press the issue. Sometimes the tighter you grab on to things the easier they slip away. If you catch my drift.

Post: #41

Whilst I’m not going to offer any panacea for the problem, let me propose some intuition pump here. If I am right girls’ flaking, at least partially, correlates with a factor of their subjectively perceived demand on the market.

Let us consider the problem from the situationist perspective. If you are offered an interview at a company A in Detroit, where jobs are scarce and competition high, you are very likely to attend the interview and take it seriously because you know you might not get a new offer for the next month or two. Alas, if you are offered an interview at a company B in San Jose, where jobs are plentiful, you are much less likely to attend the interview – you will be very picky, agree tentatively but choose only a few of the best offers. Or even wait for better job prospects in the future. Thus, demand and supply regulates, to a high level, people’s behaviour on the market. Of course, it’s a greatly simplified model. Yet, isomorphically, girls attune their behaviour to sexual market’s demand and supply.

Girl A, an undergrad student at a big university in a city with high urban density, frequent user of social media and online dating sites will perceive suitors as easily replaceable commodity. The same girl A, working in a small office, in a rural town, thus having less contacts in her social media outlets as well as in need of further and more costly distances to travel for meet ups arranged via online dating will perceive men as serious suitors and think twice if she wants to cancel on a date. There are many other factors, no doubt, but I will bet that probabilities of girl’s showing up on a date or not are correlated with her perceived subjective demand.

Post: #42

(disclaimer: my experience is nightgame only)

(12-08-2013 04:39 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Bottom line, flaking is minimized by your work up front. I know when I have hooks deep. On those my flakes are low.

Exactly! Only if she's into you (and you tried to SNL her) you should ask for her number. If she is not into you, her number is a complete waste of time.

Even if she's not into you, she will still give her digits to you. It's far more easier for her to ignore your calls/texts or flake than reject you in your face. Giving her number costs her nothing and gives her free validation…

Post: #43

Post: #44

(12-09-2013 01:51 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  ... In my opinion, truly independent men are better without those kind of women ...

Well we're not into middle aged mammas.

The younger and prettier a women is, the more likely she'll flake and have all those negative character traits that we work so hard with self-improvement to eliminate in ourselves.

Sorry but my dick has no desire to give charity fucks to women with character.

(12-09-2013 01:51 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  You cannot possibly expect good sex or excitement from such a conformist woman.

Ha ha, like she needs character to be good in bed.

Post: #45

Honestly, right now, I don't do anything to reduce flaking. I just game as best I can and if the chick doesn't want to hang out, I just move on to the next one.

Over the years, I have tried to reduce flaking by:

1) Identifying and discussing commonalities and shared interests during the initial approach.
2) Texting her quickly to maintain momentum
3) Insta-dates
4) Staying on her "radar" by maintaining communication.
5) Trying to identify her passions and/or fears and then commenting or "baiting" her on those issues.
6) Doing crazy shit to set myself apart from the crowd

Sometimes these things work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they help and sometimes they hurt. There will always be factors that are out of our control. We can do everything right, and the girl will still flake. Sometimes, their own lack of confidence or sex drive or imagination cause them to flake.

If there's one thing I've learned, it is this -- Girls are unpredictable and illogical.

Don't ever try to figure out why they do what they do, even they don't know why they do what they do.

(12-08-2013 04:30 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I maybe the best thing to do is just chalk up flakes to the game not consciously try to defeat it.

I think we should just do the best we can at "controlling the controllables" and then after that, just let destiny takes it course.

Flaking is just part of the game and it should have no effect on our pysche.

Post: #46

Ironically, I find myself flaking more than the girls do nowadays.

I live my life and if I can squeeze in time then fine, but I never make them a priority, thus no flying fucks are given.

Hosting and Promoting will cure the flake case quick as well.

If I counted all the 'flakes' every weekend etc it would be in the hundreds, if not thousands.

Interestingly enough, it's the girls who DON'T commit to coming out for the night, that usually do. The ones who go on and on about what time they'll be at the club etc, tend to be the flakiest. Perhaps it them overcompensating for possibly flaking.

Post: #47

interesting perspective.

by definition #2, rarely if ever does a girl flake on me.

but looking at definition #1 - i think it would make sense to be less sensitive about it. i mean, even calling it flaking makes us seem hurt by it. it just means that the process got short circuited / closed before you made it to concrete interactions. i wouldnt even give it two thoughts. i wouldn't even try to think of ways to correct it.

in my experience, 'building attraction' is just a phrase PUA's come up with. girls know within a very short period of time if they are going to fuck you or not, and when they decide they will, they make it happen as much as you do.

Post: #48

"in my experience, 'building attraction' is just a phrase PUA's come up with. girls know within a very short period of time if they are going to fuck you or not, and when they decide they will, they make it happen as much as you do."

My experience differs.

A girl can think you're cute. But what you say to her us what convinces the panties to come down.

Post: #49

How do I reduce flaking?

I make flaking irrelevant in my world, since I'm not putting myself into situations where flaking is a possibility. I reduce my variables. See here: /thread-28403.html

You've got to stop thinking in such a linear manner. So many guys have it hardwired in their brain that to get laid, you have to follow these steps: 1. Get the girls number -> 2. Set up a date -> 3. Go out on the date -> 4. Run "game" during the date -> 5. Bring her home -> 6. Make her comfortable -> 7. Ramp up sexual tension -> 8. Bang

In my world it goes like this: 1. Get a girls number -> 2. Invite her over -> 3. Bang

I'm eliminating variables that other guys are getting hung up on; they're like old school online shopping websites, where you have to create a new account and go through all these steps in order to buy the item you want. With that method, there are a lot of opportunities for the would-be customer to leave or take an undesired action. However, my game is like Amazon.com's "buy with 1 click" option. I provide an environment for the buyer to make an impulse decision. I reduce my variables = higher conversions.

Last week I number closed a girl on Tinder at 5pm. She came over at 930pm. By 1045pm we were banging. Why should it be more complicated than that? I didn't need to "build comfort" or "demonstrate my high value" to her. I made her horny and provided an outlet for her. If she didn't want to bang she wouldn't have come over. And if she didn't want to come over, then throwing more variables into the situation by taking her on a date certainly isn't a logical alternative.

I'd be willing to bet that half the girls that flake on guys just wanted to get banged out, but didn't want to go through all the motions and put in all that effort of going on a stupid date and talking about inconsequential shit for two hours. That's a big mental effort, even for someone that's horny. So instead they bail last minute and call their fuck buddy, or just stay home and masturbate.

Simplify your game, reduce your variables, and your flake rate will plummet.

Post: #50

(12-09-2013 11:50 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  In my world it goes like this: 1. Get a girls number -> 2. Invite her over -> 3. Bang

This is the damage reduction model, if a girl flakes it is no loss to you.

Either you can tell her come over and hang out, or meet at your place and then you will precede to wherever you are going.

This is a big problem because for younger girls. Under 26, the flaking is through the roof. I don't expect her to show up or care if she doesn't. If she does show up, she just scored a ticket to at least one dinner at a nice restaurants or some other cool events. Flakes the first time? The second date will be Netflix and she can come over after 10pm. Amusingly, after two or three flakes sometimes girls finally show up, if I haven't forgotten about them already.

There are a lot of positives here:

a. It doesn't waste any of your time. I'm often working until the minute a girl shows up.
b. Its free. You don't pay for gas or transportation
c. It makes it easier to line up multiple girls in a single day