(12-06-2013 11:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I cannot find the article that was linked above…. YET,…. ARE you for real in your assertion, PortofManteau? DON'T we believe that MORE acceptance of BTC should RAISE price of BTC, rather than cause any crash of the price, no? Can you explain what you meant by this?

WNBA = women's national basketball association; it's a joke.

(12-06-2013 11:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  So, in essence on Coinbase, I have verified my identification, my bank account and a visa credit card. I have also referred friends through e-mail and Facebook - however, NONE of my friends have registered and purchased with Coinbase, yet (at least that is what is showing up on my "referral" section of my Coinbase account).

According to your screenshot you have to wait 30 days to complete the level 2 verification, everything else checks out. You should check with coinbase and make sure that's what's holding you back, and that's why you were able to buy .1 BTC instantly - just look at the bottom of the screenshot. Once your 30 days is up you should be able to instant-buy 10 a week.

(12-06-2013 11:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Yeah… I had more than 30 minutes that I had been trying to access Coinbase, as well, TO BUY as this BitCoin price had been going down for several hours and the prices were in the lower $800 range during that crash.

I kept trying to get in to buy, and the crash of the website may have saved me a little bit because the price continued to go down, so by the time I was able to send a new purchase, the price was down to $750 per BTC. Then I bought again at $690 before the price went back up. So my next time to buy today is if it goes below $680 and even more if it goes below $650 by the time I catch it…

I was only thinking a couple of days ago that it'll probably test the 50% Fibonacci at some point, looks like it's heading there ($600 or between $550-650). If it does you get your chance!

Fascinating. So many people with so many opinions on where bit coin is going. Not trying to celebrate the fall - not at all - just the way people justify or try and rationalize.

Quote:JustinHart: I guarantee that BTC hits 800 before it sees 600
SCalkins: I'm surprised ltc/btc is so high...
c0nnect4: invasion, lol so true . . . I was selling em cheap becasue cheap power/. . . sigh
BlahBlahBlahBlah: http://i.imgur.com/KcQJbbk.png
AndyYankee17: jdereg, That's why you convert USD into stock, bonds, ETFs, securities
_sg_: crash crash crash
doris300: let them suckers sell. give them all the time they want to sell the shit down to nothing.
cheese: NEW pro-china bitcoin article http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Paci...e-bank-ban
mickismick: another dump
bitzmining: LTC about jump 20%
SilverBullet: CrypticCurrent, link or vever happend
tonywestonuk: *Dont* think of this crash as a bad thing.....there are always ways of making money. Even now.
halliwell: Ohmygod you have no idea how happy I am I have cash right now. Cash is king kids. US Government backed dollars. That's right - cash = king... Heheheheheheheheheehehe
Holyrain: falling oon Gox. Sell now and get back on Sunday evening $400
nj234life: when do you buy into LTC is the question?!
onetime: wall down on GOX... time to start chipping on the next suckers buy wall
kris8888: we will crash!!!!!!!
Soulfood982: sell LTC now and rebuy at 0.032 it will be there tomorrow
Antiquity: My favourite flower TULIP
sinx13: 690. go to fiat
Cosmonaut: GOX and China crashing hard !, Here we come $100 BTC
TastyCheese: Do not buy!! Omg This trend line goes below $500

(12-06-2013 09:06 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  if you are a instant trader right now..you can be making bank.

it hit 650.. withing and hour it went up to 8...then fell back down to 750

That's the problem. You cannot trade quickly bitcoins. Yesterday there was a delay of 40 mins on mtgox. Today is probably even worse.

I tried to short bitcoin when it was over 1000$ but I wasnot quick enough. Plus it is very complicated. I have to borrow a bitcoin and pay interest.

(12-07-2013 06:57 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 09:06 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  if you are a instant trader right now..you can be making bank.

it hit 650.. withing and hour it went up to 8...then fell back down to 750

That's the problem. You cannot trade quickly bitcoins. Yesterday there was a delay of 40 mins on mtgox. Today is probably even worse.

I tried to short bitcoin when it was over 1000$ but I wasnot quick enough. Plus it is very complicated. I have to borrow a bitcoin and pay interest.

What exchange and/or service are you using L'Etranger?

(12-05-2013 01:52 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  Ha to all the haters of bitcoin. The price didn't crash, even with the slightly negative news out of China.

You see bitcoin became a bubble partially because of people like you. Because you are emotional about it. I don't hate bitcoin, in fact I think it's a great idea, but it just don't work for in real life for many reasons I previously talked about.
Bitcoin difference between the high of 1024$ and the low of 576$ was 56% today. This is not investing, this is pure speculation. (Translation = this is not the currency of the future)

(12-07-2013 07:06 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  What exchange and/or service are you using L'Etranger?

I never traded bitcoin before but for short i found that you can borrow bitcoin with bitfinex.com
To be honest I dont even know if its worth it. Since bitfinex itself might not even be around in 1 year. Or hacked like many others.

Who cares if it's the currency of the future. Who cares if it's a bubble. I wake up every day to make money. I could give a fuck about how it happens and could care less about the crypto world.

(12-07-2013 11:16 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  Bitcoin difference between the high of 1024$ and the low of 576$ was 56% today. This is not investing, this is pure speculation. (Translation = this is not the currency of the future)

Rather than say its not the currency of the future, I would say it´t not practical for the everyday use right now. What the future brings of stability we really have no idea about.


Mining

To earn money from mining you need to consider several factors
- Cost of mining equipment
- cost of electricity
- Risks of investing in mining equipment
- Future hashrate(how many other people are mining?)
- Value of bitcoin.

Lucky there are calculators for the theoretical part.
http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/
Problem is future hashrate and value of bitcoin is highly unpredictable.

Scroll down this page to have a look at the developing "Difficulty". Its adjusted to the current network strength every now and then.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

To predict future hashrate you need to get an overview of the fabrics creating mining equipment, how much they create and when it will hit the market.

Why bother mining? You could have doubled your btc last night alone.

(12-07-2013 11:30 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Who cares if it's the currency of the future. Who cares if it's a bubble. I wake up every day to make money. I could give a fuck about how it happens and could care less about the crypto world.

yeah, it's just a trade. gotta look at it for what it is: a trade, and nothing more.

ZeroHedge's summation is PERFECT

Quote:It was inevitable that a few short days after Wall Street lovingly embraced Bitcoin as their own, with analysts from Bank of America, Citigroup and others, not to mention the peanut gallery vocally flipflopping on the currency after hating it at $200 only to love it at $1200 that Bitcoin... would promptly crash. And crash it did: overnight, following previously reported news that China's Baidu woild follow the PBOC in halting acceptance of Bitcoin payment, Bitcoin tumbled from a recent high of $1155 to an almost electronically destined "half-off" touching $576 hours ago, exactly 50% lower, on very heave volume, before a dead cat bounce levitated the currency back to the $800 range, where it may or may not stay much longer, especially if all those who jumped on the bandwagon at over $1000 on "get rich quick" hopes and dreams, only to see massive losses in their P&Ls. Which incidentally, like gold, is to be expected when one treats what is explicitly a currency, instead as an asset, with delusions of grandure that some greater fool will pay more for it tomorrow than it is worth today.

im inclined to agree about the dead cat bounce for those that think its at a support and about to launch again. I'm thinking that a lot of people who bought at higher prices and haven't sold in the crash are probably going to be selling off soon.

Quote:
Post: #552RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(Yesterday 05:27 PM)el mechanico Wrote:
I sold my coins today. Waiting to see what China does but they're not buying so they may wake up and sell?? Anyway, I'll buy back in late tonight maybe

ElMech:
Where are you buying and selling? On BTC - e, no? For example, I would think that you are getting out of BTC by converting to dollars on BTC-e, but you do NOT cash out, then you jump TOTALLY back in by converting your dollars back into BTC.. at some strategic point.
Is that the methodology that you are employing for engaging in these ALL or NOTHING trades? If so, then I can see that there would be fairly low transaction costs on BTC - e for that method, no? Yet, BTC-e does take a small percentage of the trade, no?

NO Hating ... but from what i consider to be a practical perspective, I cannot believe that anyone would TOTALLY liquidate in such waves like you are saying that you are doing. That seems too risky and nerve racking in such a volatile market, even though there is a good opportunity for greater returns, if a guy can time it correctly.

Yes that is exactly what I do. I'm sitting on USD only right now and will make some drunk trades tonight. I can't imagine using anything but BTC-E because of all the options. I would go as far to say if you're not there you're doing it wrong and causing a lot of unnecessary hastle.

Quote:I think that Fiatleak.com website made my computer crash

Buy an Apple. I time that site buy how much we and China buy per minute mix that with trollbox and google "bitcoin" a lot to read hype.

My mom, who just discovered that you can find music on Youtube this year now knows what Bitcoin is. If that isn't a sign that it's way too late to jump on the bandwagon, then I don't know what is.

Mining is not worth it. all those mine pools are gonna take more money that they give out and unless you have a supercomuter you arent gonna be running a miner anywhere near you

(12-07-2013 11:16 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 01:52 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  Ha to all the haters of bitcoin. The price didn't crash, even with the slightly negative news out of China.

You see bitcoin became a bubble partially because of people like you. Because you are emotional about it. I don't hate bitcoin, in fact I think it's a great idea, but it just don't work for in real life for many reasons I previously talked about.
Bitcoin difference between the high of 1024$ and the low of 576$ was 56% today. This is not investing, this is pure speculation. (Translation = this is not the currency of the future)

The haters of bitcoin are the emotional ones. Even if bitcoin never becomes a currency, it has value as a payment network (think of a cheaper, faster paypal).

Now, what is bitcoin worth as only a payment network? That I don't know, but it is not $0 like a lot of haters would say.

I bought another one at 657.

First one was at 630.

This is fun.

I think a lot of guys are having meltdowns abot btc because it's unconventional.

El Mech is right. Still, BTER.com is good as well.

Stay away from MtGox.

Any thoughts as what price to buy in btc? I'm not touching other coins for now unless LTC goes to two dollars.

(12-07-2013 07:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Any thoughts as what price to buy in btc? I'm not touching other coins for now unless LTC goes to two dollars.

zerohedge states that its a dead cat bounce

Quote:In finance, a dead cat bounce is a small, brief recovery in the price of a declining stock.[1] Derived from the idea that "even a dead cat will bounce if it falls from a great height", the phrase, which originated on Wall Street, is also popularly applied to any case where a subject experiences a brief resurgence during or following a severe decline.

If its a dead cat bounce its gonna plunge again. However, if it remains stable at this $700 support for a bit then takes off going up, then it may not be a dead cat bounce but then peak again.

What im going to do is wait to see what happens and if it goes up and seems to keep going up, buy in and sell at another peak.

El Mech,

I'm not buying anything. For now. People are way too wild.

You could buy some Quarkcoins at 15-12. Rumor is Keiser hosts Bill Still at 16-12 and he'll pump it live. Quarkcoin's also pretty popular on Google Trends, I don't know why, it just is. Sheep will buy.

Pretty funny: guys who moaned last week they missed their chance, now say bitcoin's too volatile for an investment.

(12-07-2013 07:34 PM)Pyre Wrote:  What im going to do is wait to see what happens and if it goes up and seems to keep going up, buy in and sell at another peak.

   

(12-07-2013 12:42 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:I think that Fiatleak.com website made my computer crash

Buy an Apple. I time that site buy how much we and China buy per minute mix that with trollbox and google "bitcoin" a lot to read hype.

I have owned Macs since the early 1990s... and thus, my crashing of my webbrowser from that page (I misspoke it was NOT my whole computer that crashed) was likely from that buggy page....

(12-07-2013 07:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Any thoughts as what price to buy in btc? I'm not touching other coins for now unless LTC goes to two dollars.

I certainly have NO clue at what price a guy (who had sold all his BTC) would buy back into BTC. I thought you, El Mech, had already a plan yesterday, which was to sell ALL of your BTC holdings (yesterday) and then to buy all of what that had converted into back in the evening (yesterday)... Seems like i have NOT been keeping up with your plan and you changed your plan?

I have a hard time with the dead cat bounce theory b/c I tend to believe that BTC is NOT going down in a sort of freefall ... after all of the hype in the last few weeks about this technologically solid system... and the quadrillionaires that have been made over the past several years – and more so in the past year and even more so in the past month... .. Surely, the very newly rich are NOT going to have much clout because they do NOT know anything, except for nearly pure luck.

So, maybe you, El Mech, will ride this recent BIG negative out until you hear a certain kind of news, no? or ride out this recent BIG negative for a certain time-period? I would think that any decision to buy back into BTC would NOT be based merely on BTC reaching a certain price point, unless that price point plays into a certain theory about how far down and how quickly BTC is going to go down and whether and how much it is going to bounce back? Seems like the latest news would be more important than the price point, and I guess if people are staying generally on a selling streak, then good for a guy to stay out..

I cannot really see this BTC going down to $200, even though it is possible.. especially if some more negative news were to come... I would think that $500 is about as low as a guy could expect it to fall over the remainder of the weekend... but what the HECK do I know? I'm still dabbling with attempting to continue to buy in small increments during these recent and ongoing dips.

For example, my latest purchase was about 2 hours ago: .2BTC at $693 (and in the last couple of hours, the price has been swinging up and down about $80 in that same range). At that time, I was ONLY going to buy .1 BTC; however, Fisto's above post in this thread influenced me to buy .2BTC because I felt like such a cheap bastard after reading that he had bought a whole one BTC at $657…. And I had just gotten online… and I had NOT yet bought any all day.. and they had been in the upper $700s most of the day. My next purchases depend on how quickly the price falls (or if it continues to fall)… so currently, I plan:

.1BTC at $620
.3BTC at $600
.3BTC at $550
.5BTC at $500

My quantity of investment depends upon how quickly I catch the price drops and how quickly it is going down… since I am kind of watching this downward trend and tending to want to jump into buying on the dips.. with small increments. If it does NOT continue to fall today, then tomorrow, I will buy .1BTC or .2BTC at whatever price it is – if it is up into the 700s or 800s….or even 900s.


My general strategy is NOT in and out.. ONLY “in” because I am trying to increase my portfolio of BTC.. and with this drop of price, I am buying a little more quickly than I had anticipated. Yesterday, I bought .1BTC at $545 at the end of a downward streak because I thought that BTC was continuing to go lower because it had been dropping so rapidly, and I was going to buy .5BTC at $500, but the price never made it much below $545, so I was kind of kicking myself for NOT buying .5 BTC at $545..

Regarding this “play money” concept that has been used to suggest that it is all for the losing… I generally agree and accept that concept; however, the concept could change somewhat when a guy is in the investment for a while and when a guy starts making gains:

To me, it makes a difference, if a guy were working with "play money" of 10 BTC, or 20, 50 or 100 BTC... If a guy had been working with 1000 BTC, it would have been a little more difficult to consider that to be play money b/c in my thinking, the larger the amount, the more difficult it becomes to continue to consider it play money. … The more volatility, the more that a guy of modest means will want to cash some of it out… unless he happens to be independently wealthy…

Let's say, for example (I am NOT saying this is you, EL MECH, b/c I am NOT really sure) a guy started to invest in BTC with $5,000 of “play money” in April/May or so when the price was around $100/BTC. That means around 50 BTC. And, the guy considered his investment purely play money – because he had NO idea what he was doing.
From the below linked charts, it looks as if that guy would have had to ride out his initial investment all the way until about November before profits would have begun to soar in any kind of large way. If he had sat on his BTC, his $5,000 would have gone to $60,000.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD...10zm2g25zv

Maybe since that guy was attempting to be practical and did NOT really know what he was doing, he may have decided to play it and to withdraw about 10BTC to take some profits, when the price was around $500.. But the price kept going up. In that regard, the guy would NOT have wanted to pull out during the upward streak. That guy may have pulled out and got back in, but it does NOT seem likely to be able to play it very well, but maybe he would have been able to get in and then out and to increase his initial investment back up to 50 BTC, even though he took out 10BTC?

I do tend to agree with El Mech that the alt coins are more of a long shot than BTC and alt coins are pretty UNLIKELY to play out very well... even though quite a few of them were playing out fairly well about two weeks ago, as long as a guy got in and then out in the right kind of timing.

(12-07-2013 07:34 PM)Pyre Wrote:  What im going to do is wait to see what happens and if it goes up and seems to keep going up, buy in and sell at another peak.

This described plan does NOT seem very solid in describing any meaningful action or suggestion about what a guy is supposed to do, and when he is supposed to do it b/c in this particular application, NONE of us can really predict whether BTC is going up or going down or whether we are at a trough in the price right NOW or whether the trough is down the road at a certain price point.

In this regard, a guy is supposed to buy while the investment price is going down and he is supposed to sell while the investment price is going up... but that is the safe strategy... the less safe strategy to become more rich or to lose more is to go balls to the wall and to go all or nothing.

Don't worry about offending me. I really know I have no clue what I'm doing or care too much.

Alt coins: will drop when btc ( there ruler) does so don't bother buying in on any decline.

Village mentality : don't ever under estimate it. The Chinese have it. But are less jealous than Greeks I think. If Greece was a major player here I'd be able to predict the outcome 100% correct. I'm saying the village Greeks are buying coins because they don't understand them but the metropolitan Greeks could be but when it comes to money they revert to village mentality. I'm not dissing them but I'm dissing them. The Chinese are the same probably but not as lazy. The Greeks would rather hate on bitcoins than invest.

(12-07-2013 02:33 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  The haters of bitcoin are the emotional ones. Even if bitcoin never becomes a currency, it has value as a payment network (think of a cheaper, faster paypal).

Can you explain me in few words how you can use something that moves more than 50% in the same day as a payment method? The seller can loose half of his money instantly!

(12-07-2013 07:34 PM)Pyre Wrote:  What im going to do is wait to see what happens and if it goes up and seems to keep going up, buy in and sell at another peak.

So we have 2 pro strat here:
Buy high sell higher or average down until you are at the support.

Guys, if you want gamble money, buy penny stocks, at least your account wont be hacked or your wallet go offline.

(12-08-2013 05:36 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 02:33 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  The haters of bitcoin are the emotional ones. Even if bitcoin never becomes a currency, it has value as a payment network (think of a cheaper, faster paypal).

Can you explain me in few words how you can use something that moves more than 50% in the same day as a payment method? The seller can loose half of his money instantly!

L'Et:

This comment of yours sounds like a typical hater comment. As you already know, right NOW, and even moreso in the last couple of months, lots of people are speculating and following BTC values like a get rich quick scheme... and gambling and investing into it.

Really BTC is like an IPO.. we, and members of the public, just learned about it in the last couple of months...or at least the concept is spreading more and more to regular people who are thinking about getting in... and/or ways to get in.

So, at the moment, BTC is NOT a great vehicle for a rest-assured payment system, b/c the value of the Bitcoin remains in flux and volatile on a daily basis b/c, as you know, the value is NOT settled b/c also a lot of people, are just hearing about it and getting into it to invest and speculate.... and even those who are already in are probably playing the market aspects of this current investment vehicle.

It is likely that the volatility is NOT a long term status, and that should be obvious to you based on the current circumstances... thus making your comment sound like pure hating b/c you are asking us lay people to argue about obvious problems that exists in the short-term and in a weekend seeing one of the largest collapses and NO ONE can really control that level of volatility or even defend it or even know where it is going to go for sure. That current level of volatility does NOT take away from the long term potential of this bitcoin as a payment system.

L'Et: Are you in or NOT, or are you just mad and angry at some of those lucky people who invested early and became quick (and likely undeserving) millionaires? Sure a bunch of young kids and undeserving investors are likely going to get rich off of this BTC phenomenon. some have already made fortunes, and if BTC were to take off, then some of them would become increasingly rich and wealth will transfer from old institution to a lot of these geeky undeserving types..


Also your comment/question sounds like a hater comment b/c you are attempting to set the parameters to answer in "a few words" a matter that really cannot be answered - especially when there will likely be quite a bit of volatility until this payment system were to be adopted by some major players such as a govt or some large institutions. Those major players are NOT likely to adopt it soon or to buy into it soon without a fight and various continued sabotage efforts, first... so I predict that this BTC value system will be quite volatile for quite a while b/c also (besides the speculation matter) those who are invested in the status quo are going to engage in a variety of efforts to sabotage it and to work against it.. and this battle of existence and valuation could be long and drawn out.. especially the longer that more and more people get invested into BTC systems.

What advocates of the payment system are hoping for is that its value will stabilize, and that will NOT likely happen soon... and accordingly any payment agreement is going to have to take into account the volatility risk.. and consider how and who is bearing such volatility risk(s).

(12-08-2013 05:36 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  Guys, if you want gamble money, buy penny stocks, at least your account wont be hacked or your wallet go offline.

Are you really trying to help anyone out with these snarky remarks? Surely, some of us are also investing in BTC b/c we are taking various gambles and we think that there are potential up financials. Yes, we need to account for various risks and we ALSO need to take certain precautions...

L'Et:

In the end, I DO NOT get your contribution, HERE, except to maybe point fingers at some of us who are trying to engage in meaningful discussion about investing in BTC... and possibly some of us may lose our asses and we are taking those kinds of chances investing and trying to study the market in order to know how to invest and when to be in or to be out..

And YOU? Are YOU in or NOT or just pointing fingers and judging the rest of us? That's right, in one of your earlier postings, #558 above, you already said that you were NOT in.

Accordingly, what's your contribution to this thread, exactly - besides various kinds of amorphous hating?