Post: #1

This is something I have learned and benefitted greatly from through my own experience. There are many ways to become more attractive, and you probably know some of them. Workout, dress well, get a quality haircut. These things help but sometimes what is really necessary to become more attractive is to change your belief system.

This ties to confidence. Knowing you are attractive makes you confident. Being confident is attractive. It's a cycle.

Some new guys that may have just discovered game may not have that confidence. They might not have that belief that they are generally attractive to women.

This is something I experienced when I first started just over a year ago. And back then I had been working out for some time already and was in decent shape, and dressed reasonably well (not very hard to out dress college aged peers). Despite this, I still didn't think girls in general found me attractive. I needed to fix this, and I found a solution.

I kept a journal, and I detailed situations or times I received interest from girls.

Every single time I had a girl show interest in me, either through body language, physical actions, or verbal interest, I'd jot it down.

At first it was slow. I'd probably add in only a couple or so additions a week, with the date and brief point of what type of interest she gave me. My first points were along the lines of:

- girl introduces herself to me in a class
- girl standing beside me in line for food asks me what I am going to get
- girl locks eye contact with me several times across the room in the library

Eventually, as I started to take these down, I noticed that overtime these became more frequent and more intense. Before I'd be writing down points where girls I didn't know made lots of eye contact with me, and later I was writing about how girls would outright approach me in social situations. I made sure to write down every time I got make out at the club, and made a note of how attractive I thought the girl was and how long the interaction turned out.

I wrote down dates I had, and how attractive and fun the girls were. I wrote down my first few successful pulls and lays. I noticed that the more journal entries I made, the more often I was having to make them, and the more novel the situations were. I wrote down some of my most flattering verbal comments I could have never dreamed of when I had first started this, ones that come to mind:

- girl tells me 'I found out why I'm so awkward around you. You're so confident with yourself its intimidating.'
- girl asks me if I can pose nude for her while she attempts to draw me
- girl tells me she likes my scent and I ask her why and she says I smell like 'sex appeal'

It got to the point where it became too much of a burden to continue this journal. After every night out I'd have too many entries that I was forgetting and it was a pain to jot everything down. Its important to note however I'm not walking into clubs and having hot girls swarm over me asking me to take them home. I don't get approached very often but the amount of approach invitations can be insane, depending on the night and the venue. If I had tighter logistics and tighter closing game which I'm still working on, my pull rates would be much higher. I've had many strong attraction displays and pull attempts, I'm still working on increasing my conversion rates.

It never was like this when I first started.

I learned to internalize that I am generally attractive to women, and the more you believe it, the more it becomes true, and the more often you will find success. Positive thinking breeds success.

This is something quality players already have. They already know they are the shit and that any girl should value their presence because they know they are a high quality man and won't settle for less.

But this belief might be something new guys might struggle with. And that's where you can do something about it.

Just take this with a grain of salt. Constantly looking towards validation from women isn't healthy. And you should be obviously improving yourself in other areas. Combining multiple factors together will increase your success. I feel this is something that isn't talked about too often and is a factor you can definitely work on and use to your advantage.

Post: #2

Secret Self

Post: #3

(11-25-2013 04:51 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  This is something I have learned and benefitted greatly from through my own experience. There are many ways to become more attractive, and you probably know some of them. Workout, dress well, get a quality haircut. These things help but sometimes what is really necessary to become more attractive is to change your belief system.

This ties to confidence. Knowing you are attractive makes you confident. Being confident is attractive. It's a cycle.

Some new guys that may have just discovered game may not have that confidence. They might not have that belief that they are generally attractive to women.

This is something I experienced when I first started just over a year ago. And back then I had been working out for some time already and was in decent shape, and dressed reasonably well (not very hard to out dress college aged peers). Despite this, I still didn't think girls in general found me attractive. I needed to fix this, and I found a solution.

I kept a journal, and I detailed situations or times I received interest from girls.

Every single time I had a girl show interest in me, either through body language, physical actions, or verbal interest, I'd jot it down.

At first it was slow. I'd probably add in only a couple or so additions a week, with the date and brief point of what type of interest she gave me. My first points were along the lines of:

- girl introduces herself to me in a class
- girl standing beside me in line for food asks me what I am going to get
- girl locks eye contact with me several times across the room in the library

Eventually, as I started to take these down, I noticed that overtime these became more frequent and more intense. Before I'd be writing down points where girls I didn't know made lots of eye contact with me, and later I was writing about how girls would outright approach me in social situations. I made sure to write down every time I got make out at the club, and made a note of how attractive I thought the girl was and how long the interaction turned out.

I wrote down dates I had, and how attractive and fun the girls were. I wrote down my first few successful pulls and lays. I noticed that the more journal entries I made, the more often I was having to make them, and the more novel the situations were. I wrote down some of my most flattering verbal comments I could have never dreamed of when I had first started this, ones that come to mind:

- girl tells me 'I found out why I'm so awkward around you. You're so confident with yourself its intimidating.'
- girl asks me if I can pose nude for her while she attempts to draw me
- girl tells me she likes my scent and I ask her why and she says I smell like 'sex appeal'

It got to the point where it became too much of a burden to continue this journal. After every night out I'd have too many entries that I was forgetting and it was a pain to jot everything down. Its important to note however I'm not walking into clubs and having hot girls swarm over me asking me to take them home. I don't get approached very often but the amount of approach invitations can be insane, depending on the night and the venue. If I had tighter logistics and tighter closing game which I'm still working on, my pull rates would be much higher. I've had many strong attraction displays and pull attempts, I'm still working on increasing my conversion rates.

It never was like this when I first started.

I learned to internalize that I am generally attractive to women, and the more you believe it, the more it becomes true, and the more often you will find success. Positive thinking breeds success.

This is something quality players already have. They already know they are the shit and that any girl should value their presence because they know they are a high quality man and won't settle for less.

But this belief might be something new guys might struggle with. And that's where you can do something about it.

Just take this with a grain of salt. Constantly looking towards validation from women isn't healthy. And you should be obviously improving yourself in other areas. Combining multiple factors together will increase your success. I feel this is something that isn't talked about too often and is a factor you can definitely work on and use to your advantage.

The power of thought and how it can shape you is powerful.
- "As you think, you shall become."

Realizing the fact that how you perceive things VASTLY affects you and the power of perception (and how you can learn to perceive things differently), is a VERY strong tool I recommend new guys to look into or learn about.

I would also say this EASILY goes hand in hand with body language. If you're back is up straight, you're not slouching, and you walk confidently-you will FEEL powerful.

This furthermore goes hand in hand with how you dress/style and your fitness.

Now combine/work on all the above, along with meeting a decent wing or others in the game-and you will not only become a deadly assassin in the game but also pick things up MUCH faster.

Stay gaming my friends!

Post: #4

+1 for clever tech with low investment.

Your idea matches academic research indicating that simply recording "performance" ( in this case when women IOI'd) improves performance.

You don't even have to know what you're changing; it will just change in the right direction.

Post: #5

Nice tip. I'm going to implement that.

Post: #6

This thread is very useful. For that reason I'm giving this thread a:

Post: #7

(11-25-2013 04:51 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  This is something I have learned and benefitted greatly from through my own experience. There are many ways to become more attractive, and you probably know some of them. Workout, dress well, get a quality haircut. These things help but sometimes what is really necessary to become more attractive is to change your belief system.

This ties to confidence. Knowing you are attractive makes you confident. Being confident is attractive. It's a cycle.

Some new guys that may have just discovered game may not have that confidence. They might not have that belief that they are generally attractive to women.

This is something I experienced when I first started just over a year ago. And back then I had been working out for some time already and was in decent shape, and dressed reasonably well (not very hard to out dress college aged peers). Despite this, I still didn't think girls in general found me attractive. I needed to fix this, and I found a solution.

I kept a journal, and I detailed situations or times I received interest from girls.

Every single time I had a girl show interest in me, either through body language, physical actions, or verbal interest, I'd jot it down.

At first it was slow. I'd probably add in only a couple or so additions a week, with the date and brief point of what type of interest she gave me. My first points were along the lines of:

- girl introduces herself to me in a class
- girl standing beside me in line for food asks me what I am going to get
- girl locks eye contact with me several times across the room in the library

Eventually, as I started to take these down, I noticed that overtime these became more frequent and more intense. Before I'd be writing down points where girls I didn't know made lots of eye contact with me, and later I was writing about how girls would outright approach me in social situations. I made sure to write down every time I got make out at the club, and made a note of how attractive I thought the girl was and how long the interaction turned out.

I wrote down dates I had, and how attractive and fun the girls were. I wrote down my first few successful pulls and lays. I noticed that the more journal entries I made, the more often I was having to make them, and the more novel the situations were. I wrote down some of my most flattering verbal comments I could have never dreamed of when I had first started this, ones that come to mind:

- girl tells me 'I found out why I'm so awkward around you. You're so confident with yourself its intimidating.'
- girl asks me if I can pose nude for her while she attempts to draw me
- girl tells me she likes my scent and I ask her why and she says I smell like 'sex appeal'

It got to the point where it became too much of a burden to continue this journal. After every night out I'd have too many entries that I was forgetting and it was a pain to jot everything down. Its important to note however I'm not walking into clubs and having hot girls swarm over me asking me to take them home. I don't get approached very often but the amount of approach invitations can be insane, depending on the night and the venue. If I had tighter logistics and tighter closing game which I'm still working on, my pull rates would be much higher. I've had many strong attraction displays and pull attempts, I'm still working on increasing my conversion rates.

It never was like this when I first started.

I learned to internalize that I am generally attractive to women, and the more you believe it, the more it becomes true, and the more often you will find success. Positive thinking breeds success.

This is something quality players already have. They already know they are the shit and that any girl should value their presence because they know they are a high quality man and won't settle for less.

But this belief might be something new guys might struggle with. And that's where you can do something about it.

Just take this with a grain of salt. Constantly looking towards validation from women isn't healthy. And you should be obviously improving yourself in other areas. Combining multiple factors together will increase your success. I feel this is something that isn't talked about too often and is a factor you can definitely work on and use to your advantage.

Was there any changes in posture, speech or presentation that you think you implemented that might have made you appear more confident?

Post: #8

Quote:But this belief might be something new guys might struggle with. And that's where you can do something about it.

Just take this with a grain of salt. Constantly looking towards validation from women isn't healthy.

True. I might add that in the beginning one's self perception is so low, one cannot even imagine one may be attractive to girls. In that case it may help to ask-- "What if I were attractive, how would I handle that."

Post: #9

In fewer words, just be confident. Obviously, your results and attention from women will vary depending on how good looking you are.

Post: #10

One of the pitfalls of being confident is to not become a show off or not be able to emotionally connect with others. Those two aspects are important to gaming girls as we all know and faking confidence can result in being a turn off to other people. I think that for this to be successful, the confidence has to come from within.

Post: #11

(04-27-2016 09:28 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  Was there any changes in posture, speech or presentation that you think you implemented that might have made you appear more confident?

Maybe subconsciously.

There's a huge difference in behaviour between a man who's comfortable and confident around women and one who is not.

Post: #12

(04-29-2016 08:42 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 09:28 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  Was there any changes in posture, speech or presentation that you think you implemented that might have made you appear more confident?

Maybe subconsciously.

There's a huge difference in behaviour between a man who's comfortable and confident around women and one who is not.

I agree to that 100%. And I think girls pick up on that very quickly. I still feel unease when hanging out with girls esp if its a very large group and guys are the minority. How do you handle that? What is your attitude(conversational style/actions) like in those situations?

I sometimes feel that I have to keep on talking something to maintain her/their interest although I am trying to resist that urge and comment only sparingly now. This kind of thing can definitely give off a needy vibe.

Post: #13

(04-30-2016 12:12 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  I agree to that 100%. And I think girls pick up on that very quickly. I still feel unease when hanging out with girls esp if its a very large group and guys are the minority. How do you handle that? What is your attitude(conversational style/actions) like in those situations?

I sometimes feel that I have to keep on talking something to maintain her/their interest although I am trying to resist that urge and comment only sparingly now. This kind of thing can definitely give off a needy vibe.

Just realise that it's a situation where you'll feel more nervous than usual. And that's okay. Accept it.

If there's a girl in that group (or two) that like you, they will be more nervous than you. How does it feel to know that there's a cute girl there that's thinking about every action beforehand, because she doesn't want to do something embarrassing or off-putting in front of *you*?

Sometimes, it's best to stay quiet than try to bring attention to yourself in these situations.

Also, it helps to have a lot of experience with women in many situations. Obviously you could work on this. The more confident you feel about your ability to attract them, the less you'll care about trivial situations where at the moment it can be hard to see them for what they are.

Post: #14

(04-30-2016 09:30 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 12:12 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  I agree to that 100%. And I think girls pick up on that very quickly. I still feel unease when hanging out with girls esp if its a very large group and guys are the minority. How do you handle that? What is your attitude(conversational style/actions) like in those situations?

I sometimes feel that I have to keep on talking something to maintain her/their interest although I am trying to resist that urge and comment only sparingly now. This kind of thing can definitely give off a needy vibe.

Just realise that it's a situation where you'll feel more nervous than usual. And that's okay. Accept it.

If there's a girl in that group (or two) that like you, they will be more nervous than you. How does it feel to know that there's a cute girl there that's thinking about every action beforehand, because she doesn't want to do something embarrassing or off-putting in front of *you*?

Sometimes, it's best to stay quiet than try to bring attention to yourself in these situations.

Also, it helps to have a lot of experience with women in many situations. Obviously you could work on this. The more confident you feel about your ability to attract them, the less you'll care about trivial situations where at the moment it can be hard to see them for what they are.

Being quiet would be the safe way to do it but it seems to run contrary to game which is more active than passive especially for someone new to game. If I am quiet, chances are she wont initiate the conversation either while the other guys around me have the chance to get her attention. Perhaps you were referring to the belief that speaking less after a while when it's clear that she is into you, results in her investing more into you and thus raise your value?

In all honesty, I dont think girls in general 'like' me. As an example, I was out yesterday to a club, met a friend who had brought along a few uni girls I havent met. I introduced myself to them and did the usual rambling about the environment we were in, her course, where she lived, her family. Maintaining eye contact, listening to her, agree & amplify etc. After a while their eyes just sort of glazed over and they started looking past me to scan the horizon. They had some friend come over and I waited for them to restart the conversation and when they didnt, I just left. Did this on two separate girls but got the same reaction from both. And, I wasnt feeling nervous at all maybe because I had a bit to drink and also because they were friends of friends.

At the end of the day I think that if a girl 'likes' you, she will want to continue interacting with you in some way and if she doesnt then, probably game isnt on point yet. That's why I was wondering if you can shed some light on how did the confidence you feel translate into your conversations with women?

Post: #15

(04-30-2016 11:39 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  Being quiet would be the safe way to do it but it seems to run contrary to game which is more active than passive especially for someone new to game. If I am quiet, chances are she wont initiate the conversation either while the other guys around me have the chance to get her attention. Perhaps you were referring to the belief that speaking less after a while when it's clear that she is into you, results in her investing more into you and thus raise your value?

In all honesty, I dont think girls in general 'like' me. As an example, I was out yesterday to a club, met a friend who had brought along a few uni girls I havent met. I introduced myself to them and did the usual rambling about the environment we were in, her course, where she lived, her family. Maintaining eye contact, listening to her, agree & amplify etc. After a while their eyes just sort of glazed over and they started looking past me to scan the horizon. They had some friend come over and I waited for them to restart the conversation and when they didnt, I just left. Did this on two separate girls but got the same reaction from both. And, I wasnt feeling nervous at all maybe because I had a bit to drink and also because they were friends of friends.

At the end of the day I think that if a girl 'likes' you, she will want to continue interacting with you in some way and if she doesnt then, probably game isnt on point yet. That's why I was wondering if you can shed some light on how did the confidence you feel translate into your conversations with women?

My apologies, just saw this message now.

(I'll get to the bolded part in a minute.)

It's hard for me to accurately understand your situation without actually being there--seeing the interaction, your vibe around girls, etc.

You're right. If a girl likes you, she will find a way to continue the interaction, assuming you started it. At the very least she will give you signals to continue it.

Know that even when you become more attractive than you *already are* to women, you still won't attract them all. You'll rock a sexy girl's world you'll meet daygaming, only to later get rejected by an inferior girl in a harsh manner which will leave you scratching your head.

I just emphasized with "*" the point you need to pay attention to. You're certainly attractive to women already, and you know this to some degree, but you feel it's a much lower level than it really is. The part I bolded in your post tells me that at least.

The OP I wrote in this thread should help. But also, I'd recommend looking into the book Psycho-cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. It's hands down the best manual out there on correcting poor self-image, which is your issue it seems. Trust me, I had the same problem... I felt invisible to girls as a teenager. And even when I got in shape, I didn't feel like I made any significant strides forward.

The visualization techniques I used in the book changed my life in this regard. It sounds silly, but I would close my eyes and imagine myself walking down a street filled with dozens of gorgeous girls, all blatantly staring and smiling at me. I'd visualize random girls coming up to me and grabbing me, kissing me. These were surreal imaginations at the time, but then this stuff all eventually started happening. (Except the street bit.)

Then, I implemented the technique I outlined in this thread to cement my new beliefs even further (I am attractive to women).

Honestly I can't stress enough the difference it's all made. It's literally night and day. And it's all mindset, too. Now, with a clear mind, I can recall times in high school where I had girls just about throwing themselves at me, but I was too naive and self-conscious about my appeal to them at the time to notice.

Hope this helps.

Post: #16

(04-27-2016 07:13 PM)Razor Beast Wrote:  In fewer words, just be confident. Obviously, your results and attention from women will vary depending on how good looking you are.

I don't think that's his point, really. Everyone knows confidence helps, I think he is more giving a suggestion as to growing your confidence, given that it's quite a difficult thing to do.

Post: #17

(05-12-2016 05:23 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 11:39 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  Being quiet would be the safe way to do it but it seems to run contrary to game which is more active than passive especially for someone new to game. If I am quiet, chances are she wont initiate the conversation either while the other guys around me have the chance to get her attention. Perhaps you were referring to the belief that speaking less after a while when it's clear that she is into you, results in her investing more into you and thus raise your value?

In all honesty, I dont think girls in general 'like' me. As an example, I was out yesterday to a club, met a friend who had brought along a few uni girls I havent met. I introduced myself to them and did the usual rambling about the environment we were in, her course, where she lived, her family. Maintaining eye contact, listening to her, agree & amplify etc. After a while their eyes just sort of glazed over and they started looking past me to scan the horizon. They had some friend come over and I waited for them to restart the conversation and when they didnt, I just left. Did this on two separate girls but got the same reaction from both. And, I wasnt feeling nervous at all maybe because I had a bit to drink and also because they were friends of friends.

At the end of the day I think that if a girl 'likes' you, she will want to continue interacting with you in some way and if she doesnt then, probably game isnt on point yet. That's why I was wondering if you can shed some light on how did the confidence you feel translate into your conversations with women?

My apologies, just saw this message now.

(I'll get to the bolded part in a minute.)

It's hard for me to accurately understand your situation without actually being there--seeing the interaction, your vibe around girls, etc.

You're right. If a girl likes you, she will find a way to continue the interaction, assuming you started it. At the very least she will give you signals to continue it.

Know that even when you become more attractive than you *already are* to women, you still won't attract them all. You'll rock a sexy girl's world you'll meet daygaming, only to later get rejected by an inferior girl in a harsh manner which will leave you scratching your head.

I just emphasized with "*" the point you need to pay attention to. You're certainly attractive to women already, and you know this to some degree, but you feel it's a much lower level than it really is. The part I bolded in your post tells me that at least.

The OP I wrote in this thread should help. But also, I'd recommend looking into the book Psycho-cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. It's hands down the best manual out there on correcting poor self-image, which is your issue it seems. Trust me, I had the same problem... I felt invisible to girls as a teenager. And even when I got in shape, I didn't feel like I made any significant strides forward.

The visualization techniques I used in the book changed my life in this regard. It sounds silly, but I would close my eyes and imagine myself walking down a street filled with dozens of gorgeous girls, all blatantly staring and smiling at me. I'd visualize random girls coming up to me and grabbing me, kissing me. These were surreal imaginations at the time, but then this stuff all eventually started happening. (Except the street bit.)

Then, I implemented the technique I outlined in this thread to cement my new beliefs even further (I am attractive to women).

Honestly I can't stress enough the difference it's all made. It's literally night and day. And it's all mindset, too. Now, with a clear mind, I can recall times in high school where I had girls just about throwing themselves at me, but I was too naive and self-conscious about my appeal to them at the time to notice.

Hope this helps.

I dont really know how attractive I am to girls in my current location because I am a coloured guy in a mostly white town. Perhaps, they seem interested because I am 'exotic' in a sense but something almost always changes when I start speaking for a while. Whatever attraction they have fizzles out. And that is clearly evident because she is not looking to prolong the convo like you said although she looked interested at the start. I am applying the threads on convo advocated in Bang and the forum here but something is missing and I am still figuring out what it is. I dont think my confidence is a big problem at least in daytime approaches because some of these are social situations.

Post: #18

(05-12-2016 05:23 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 11:39 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  Being quiet would be the safe way to do it but it seems to run contrary to game which is more active than passive especially for someone new to game. If I am quiet, chances are she wont initiate the conversation either while the other guys around me have the chance to get her attention. Perhaps you were referring to the belief that speaking less after a while when it's clear that she is into you, results in her investing more into you and thus raise your value?

In all honesty, I dont think girls in general 'like' me. As an example, I was out yesterday to a club, met a friend who had brought along a few uni girls I havent met. I introduced myself to them and did the usual rambling about the environment we were in, her course, where she lived, her family. Maintaining eye contact, listening to her, agree & amplify etc. After a while their eyes just sort of glazed over and they started looking past me to scan the horizon. They had some friend come over and I waited for them to restart the conversation and when they didnt, I just left. Did this on two separate girls but got the same reaction from both. And, I wasnt feeling nervous at all maybe because I had a bit to drink and also because they were friends of friends.

At the end of the day I think that if a girl 'likes' you, she will want to continue interacting with you in some way and if she doesnt then, probably game isnt on point yet. That's why I was wondering if you can shed some light on how did the confidence you feel translate into your conversations with women?

My apologies, just saw this message now.

(I'll get to the bolded part in a minute.)

It's hard for me to accurately understand your situation without actually being there--seeing the interaction, your vibe around girls, etc.

You're right. If a girl likes you, she will find a way to continue the interaction, assuming you started it. At the very least she will give you signals to continue it.

Know that even when you become more attractive than you *already are* to women, you still won't attract them all. You'll rock a sexy girl's world you'll meet daygaming, only to later get rejected by an inferior girl in a harsh manner which will leave you scratching your head.

I just emphasized with "*" the point you need to pay attention to. You're certainly attractive to women already, and you know this to some degree, but you feel it's a much lower level than it really is. The part I bolded in your post tells me that at least.

The OP I wrote in this thread should help. But also, I'd recommend looking into the book Psycho-cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. It's hands down the best manual out there on correcting poor self-image, which is your issue it seems. Trust me, I had the same problem... I felt invisible to girls as a teenager. And even when I got in shape, I didn't feel like I made any significant strides forward.

The visualization techniques I used in the book changed my life in this regard. It sounds silly, but I would close my eyes and imagine myself walking down a street filled with dozens of gorgeous girls, all blatantly staring and smiling at me. I'd visualize random girls coming up to me and grabbing me, kissing me. These were surreal imaginations at the time, but then this stuff all eventually started happening. (Except the street bit.)

Then, I implemented the technique I outlined in this thread to cement my new beliefs even further (I am attractive to women).

Honestly I can't stress enough the difference it's all made. It's literally night and day. And it's all mindset, too. Now, with a clear mind, I can recall times in high school where I had girls just about throwing themselves at me, but I was too naive and self-conscious about my appeal to them at the time to notice.

Hope this helps.

This is an incredible book. I've read about 100 pages so far and it's absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for the recommendation, I truly appreciate it. +1