Hello
I am really interested in reading your book, 20Nation. However I don't have a kindle , and can't get one right now...
Could you send me please a pdf, or e-pub version? I know I may be abusing, but don't worry, I will keep it for myself

(11-10-2013 04:03 AM)mikado Wrote:  Hello
I am really interested in reading your book, 20Nation. However I don't have a kindle , and can't get one right now...
Could you send me please a pdf, or e-pub version? I know I may be abusing, but don't worry, I will keep it for myself

You can download the app on your computer or smartphone for free. I can't send out a pdf because I don't want to be giving out free copies that could easily end up all over the internet.

Ok i just started reading it. My first thought is that you are setting yourself up for a massive lawsuit if these stories are true. You stole these women's passwords and then are publishing what you found in a book.

I had a chick I was dating do this to me. I logged in to check my emails and i guess it kept my logins saved and she read my messages and then got mad that I was messaging other women(I was not fucking any of them, but she got mad anyways)

Don't read someone elses emails or private messages and then get mad about what you find.

20Nation, for your sake, I hope these girls don't band together and sue you. I can totally see this turning into a legal nightmare for you.

My big takeaway from reading the first 4 chapters are girls and boys deal with their emotions the same: primitively. If either guys or girls are lonely (even if they're in a relationship bc they're apart) then they seek companionship to alleviate that. The girls fucked around on you when you traveled, but you did the same. We all respond to our sexual urges and emotions in the moment, especially in the beginning stages of a relationship. You are mad that girls lied to you, but if I were in your shoes I'd have lied about fucking a girl when I was traveling too.

We primarily respond to what's "in the moment" and hopefully that is pleasure.

There's an error in the Number Nine's story. Right before you break down her profile, the paragraph before it, you call her Number Eight. You also call Number Ten Number Nine in the 5th paragraph of Number Ten's story. I figured these are just some typos you probably overlooked. There's another one, but I forgot where.


Anyway, as for the book itself, it was pretty good. It wasn't too eye opening since any guy who's been in the game for a while will know about these kind of things. I always did find it kind of disturbing how good some girls can lie, with a complete straight face.

It's always funny when you catch the sloots being sloots. They start crying, throwing tantrums, and begging for forgiveness. It kind of reminds me of how children behave.

Now, in my experience, I only hang out with girls 18-21 years old. These girls are heavy into Facebook and Twitter. Most of them have at least 7+ men in their notch count. They have about 5-7 men in orbit at any given time and she's probably banging one or two of them.These girls are dangerous because many of them want children. I can't tell you how many times I'm banging a girl raw and she's begging me to cum inside her. I obviously don't do it, but I would say wrap it up with these young girls. Anyway, I would advocate the same thing Roosh does here and that's to bang them as quickly as possible. I go for the lay on the very first hangout or "date". At first, I was surprised how girls would still hangout with me even when I couldn't hit the first night. It's like they find it attractive that they know you want it, so she's just making you wait so she won't feel too slooty (lol ) I've also gamed some younger girls in passing, by that I mean 15-17. I didn't bang them for obvious reasons but what I've noticed is these girls are perfect for molding. They haven't been heartbroken yet so they are as "pure" as you can get.

With every single massive sloot I've been with there's always a huge heartbreak that she's been through. In a way, I think we're part of the problem. No doubt, pumping and dumping is damaging for a girl. While girls are born manipulators, this doesn't take full effect until she's been used like some cheap sloot. I'm not making an excuse for girls, but just stating what I've theorized about this whole "girls testing many guys at once". They test (or bang) multiple guys because they don't want to put all of their eggs into one basket. This is because it has proven to be very damaging to her in the past

We are, without a doubt, living in very interesting times.

To the OP, I will drop a review sometime today. Oh, and your book reminds me of this post I read a long time ago: http://www.bristollair.com/2008/inner-ga...out-women/

(11-10-2013 03:37 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  There's an error in the Number Nine's story. Right before you break down her profile, the paragraph before it, you call her Number Eight. You also call Number Ten Number Nine in the 5th paragraph of Number Ten's story. I figured these are just some typos you probably overlooked. There's another one, but I forgot where.

Caught those too.

(11-10-2013 03:37 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  With every single massive sloot I've been with there's always a huge heartbreak that she's been through. In a way, I think we're part of the problem. No doubt, pumping and dumping is damaging for a girl. While girls are born manipulators, this doesn't take full effect until she's been used like some cheap sloot. I'm not making an excuse for girls, but just stating what I've theorized about this whole "girls testing many guys at once". They test (or bang) multiple guys because they don't want to put all of their eggs into one basket. This is because it has proven to be very damaging to her in the past

It's a circular pattern; many times the guys cause heartbreak because they've been heartbroken before themselves by the total sluts, and break the younger girl's hearts after they've learned. Alternatively, they are generally sociopaths or straight up alpha assholes in which the women are simply asking for the trouble.

Really, I find the second the most common (alternatively, the second results from the former); the pumping and dumping is damaging for a girl, but they go after those guys themselves. They pine, and have their hearts break, when they very well know the guy is banging her friends and will never commit to her. That starts in high school or earlier for a select few guys. It's like a guy marrying a total slut and then expecting her to constantly and consistently remain wholly faithful; it's a pipe dream that you have to realize will never come true. Those girls do not realize it and cause their own heartbreak.

And for the former guys who didn't initially start that way; they get that way when their heart was broken and their naive worldview was stripped away.

Anyways: that's off topic, so I'll jump back in. Good book, interesting... depressing in some ways, but I understand it. I'll drop a review for ya.

I'll further add that I'm currently seeing a girl who is a 6 at best and even she has a constant 3-4 orbiters asking for dates, sex etc. I'm sure she has been sexual with many of them (great liar) but I genuinely don't give a fuck nor am I surprised and what's more it's congruent (many guys do care) and it makes her want me more.

Girls like her have no problem rationalizing reasons why they see multiple guys but flip their shit when they find out your doing the same. Most of the ones I've been with even feel entitled to it and once they find out I'm also getting mine they'll cut me off.

(11-10-2013 03:37 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  There's an error in the Number Nine's story. Right before you break down her profile, the paragraph before it, you call her Number Eight. You also call Number Ten Number Nine in the 5th paragraph of Number Ten's story. I figured these are just some typos you probably overlooked. There's another one, but I forgot where.


Anyway, as for the book itself, it was pretty good. It wasn't too eye opening since any guy who's been in the game for a while will know about these kind of things. I always did find it kind of disturbing how good some girls can lie, with a complete straight face.

It's always funny when you catch the sloots being sloots. They start crying, throwing tantrums, and begging for forgiveness. It kind of reminds me of how children behave.

Now, in my experience, I only hang out with girls 18-21 years old. These girls are heavy into Facebook and Twitter. Most of them have at least 7+ men in their notch count. They have about 5-7 men in orbit at any given time and she's probably banging one or two of them.These girls are dangerous because many of them want children. I can't tell you how many times I'm banging a girl raw and she's begging me to cum inside her. I obviously don't do it, but I would say wrap it up with these young girls. Anyway, I would advocate the same thing Roosh does here and that's to bang them as quickly as possible. I go for the lay on the very first hangout or "date". At first, I was surprised how girls would still hangout with me even when I couldn't hit the first night. It's like they find it attractive that they know you want it, so she's just making you wait so she won't feel too slooty (lol ) I've also gamed some younger girls in passing, by that I mean 15-17. I didn't bang them for obvious reasons but what I've noticed is these girls are perfect for molding. They haven't been heartbroken yet so they are as "pure" as you can get.

With every single massive sloot I've been with there's always a huge heartbreak that she's been through. In a way, I think we're part of the problem. No doubt, pumping and dumping is damaging for a girl. While girls are born manipulators, this doesn't take full effect until she's been used like some cheap sloot. I'm not making an excuse for girls, but just stating what I've theorized about this whole "girls testing many guys at once". They test (or bang) multiple guys because they don't want to put all of their eggs into one basket. This is because it has proven to be very damaging to her in the past

We are, without a doubt, living in very interesting times.

To the OP, I will drop a review sometime today. Oh, and your book reminds me of this post I read a long time ago: http://www.bristollair.com/2008/inner-ga...out-women/

Thanks for noting the mistakes. I will go edit them new and upload an edited version. I did my own editing so I'm sure it's not yet perfect.

I'm glad you enjoyed it and I appreciate the review.



To all others that have written reviews on Amazon: Thanks much

I am sorry, if there is anything in this book that is news to you then I don't know what rock you have been living under. Women want relationships and men want sex. Men trade the possibility of a relationship for sex and women sex for the possibility of a relationship. Until a woman feels "secure" in a relationship she has to keep her options open. What is so difficult to understand about this? Just as we do everything we can to get sex they are doing everything they can to get a stable, secure relationship. There is nothing any of these women did that I would consider a surprise under the circumstances. Reverse the situation and no one would be saying anything about 20Nation acting in his best interest.

I did this once and I regret it and never did it again. Looking back, every single time a woman starts talking or seeing other guys while in a relationship with me was because I started giving her reasons to do so. Since a relationship is what a woman wants she is going to think really hard about fucking it up unless we start to give her reasons to feel that we are having issues with her and the relationship. If you start getting the impression that your boss is not happy with you are you not going to start looking around for another job? I wouldn't even call these relationships there were short term affairs and by that standard I don't see these women doing anything we or 20Nation wouldn't do.

Now, I operate from the premise that I don't need to worry about what any woman I am with is doing - period. Whatever happens, I will always be able to find someone as good or better. As long as she is taking care of my needs she can whatever the hell she wants but I do realize that's sort of a unique life/relationship view.

PS The disillusionment of 20Nation and most men, is the inherited but false belief, that we can only have deep feeling for one person at a time. Once you accept the reality that you can love more than one person at the same time relationships becomes a lot easier to understand and accept - because that's the true nature of people. Also what we feel for any person, is never constant, it's varies over time and is reactionary in nature.

Left a review. I wish I'd read something like this when I was 18. Would have saved me a lot of grief and wasted time. Was just thinking, a bit of controversy from feminists or the media might help out with sales so maybe that's something to think about!

Good luck!

(11-10-2013 08:54 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  I am sorry, if there is anything in this book that is news to you then I don't know what rock you have been living under. Women want relationships and men want sex. Men trade the possibility of a relationship for sex and women sex for the possibility of a relationship. Until a woman feels "secure" in a relationship she has to keep her options open. What is so difficult to understand about this? Just as we do everything we can to get sex they are doing everything they can to get a stable, secure relationship. There is nothing any of these women did that I would consider a surprise under the circumstances. Reverse the situation and no one would be saying anything about 20Nation acting in his best interest.

I did this once and I regret it and never did it again. Looking back, every single time a woman starts talking or seeing other guys while in a relationship with me was because I started giving her reasons to do so. Since a relationship is what a woman wants she is going to think really hard about fucking it up unless we start to give her reasons to feel that we are having issues with her and the relationship. If you start getting the impression that your boss is not happy with you are you not going to start looking around for another job? I wouldn't even call these relationships there were short term affairs and by that standard I don't see these women doing anything we or 20Nation wouldn't do.

Now, I operate from the premise that I don't need to worry about what any woman I am with is doing - period. Whatever happens, I will always be able to find someone as good or better. As long as she is taking care of my needs she can whatever the hell she wants but I do realize that's sort of a unique life/relationship view.

PS The disillusionment of 20Nation and most men, is the inherited but false belief, that we can only have deep feeling for one person at a time. Once you accept the reality that you can love more than one person at the same time relationships becomes a lot easier to understand and accept - because that's the true nature of people. Also what we feel for any person, is never constant, it's varies over time and is reactionary in nature.

You didn't read the entire book. The whole point of the book wasn't to be right from the beginning, it was how I slowly figured shit out over the years. In the end of the book the findings are really similar to what you are saying.

"What rock you have been living under?" Have you ever stepped out of your door and talked to normal guys? Do you really think that this is common knowledge? It's meant for the people who haven't gone through that process yet and don't understand that women aren't angels.

No, I didn't, after chapter 4 I figured there is nothing I was going to learn here. The first four stories are basically the same: guy meets girl, thinks he's a special snowflake, then is disappointed to learn that he is just one of a few under consideration for a relationship with the girl. If you are a guy and you are not in an established relationship with a girl (3+ months) and you are surprised that she is talking to, seeing, or even having sex with other men, in today's world, then I don't know what world you are living in. Because, it's certainly not the one on TV, in the newspaper, or anywhere else. Now, if a guy's definition of an angel is a girl that is only dating and talking to one guy at a time then ye, it's going to be tough finding one in today's world - especially in America.

Even, so, this is a clear example of the old double standard that has created the terrible women we have to deal with today. There is nothing any of those women did that you yourself were not doing, maybe not at the same moment, but in general. How would the book have read, had you also included your messages and actions along with the women at the same point in time? Don't you think what you do also impacts a relationship and how a woman behaves? Also, you do not know what the other men in their lives where doing either or how they treat them. What you failed to understand, was that had you not read any of those messages, you not only would have had a great time with most of those women but you might have even had a great relationship with some of them.

Why care about what a woman is doing with anyone else? What matters, is what she is doing with you and how she makes you feel. If a woman can make me happy, she could do whatever the hell she wants - that's how valuable my happiness is to me. Until her actions starts having a negative impact on my happiness, I don't care what she does. And I believe this is a more practical and sensible approach to relationships in general but one that is also unorthodox and iconoclastic. So I don't expect to find a lot of men agreeing with me

PS I once had a very attractive girlfriend that was getting these long love letters from a guy she worked with. She would show them to me but I refused to read them. I told her, you should be faltered that this guy cares enough about you to hand write you these long letters. He doesn't harass you or impose himself on you in any other way. And he keeps doing it even though you never reply to them. Personally, it just shows he has good taste in women. How can I be upset with him for that? Accept the letters and be gracious and polite to him. Someday when your beauty has faded, these letters will remind you of the power it once had.

(11-10-2013 10:34 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  No, I didn't, after chapter 4 I figured there is nothing I was going to learn here. The first four stories are basically the same: guy meets girl, thinks he's a special snowflake, then is disappointed to learn that he is just one of a few under consideration for a relationship with the girl. If you are a guy and you are not in an established relationship with a girl (3+ months) and you are surprised that she is talking to, seeing, or even having sex with other men, in today's world, then I don't know what world you are living in. Because, it's certainly not the one on TV, in the newspaper, or anywhere else. Now, if a guy's definition of an angel is a girl that is only dating and talking to one guy at a time then ye, it's going to be tough finding one in today's world - especially in America.

Even, so, this is a clear example of the old double standard that has created the terrible women we have to deal with today. There is nothing any of those women did that you yourself were not doing, maybe not at the same moment, but in general. How would the book have read, had you also included your messages and actions along with the women at the same point in time? Don't you think what you do also impacts a relationship and how a woman behaves? Also, you do not know what the other men in their lives where doing either or how they treat them. What you failed to understand, was that had you not read any of those messages, you not only would have had a great time with most of those women but you might have even had a great relationship with some of them.

Why care about what a woman is doing with anyone else? What matters, is what she is doing with you and how she makes you feel. If a woman can make me happy, she could do whatever the hell she wants - that's how valuable my happiness is to me. Until her actions starts having a negative impact on my happiness, I don't care what she does. And I believe this is a more practical and sensible approach to relationships in general but one that is also unorthodox and iconoclastic. So I don't expect to find a lot of men agreeing with me

PS I once had a very attractive girlfriend that was getting these long love letters from a guy she worked with. She would show them to me but I refused to read them. I told her, you should be faltered that this guy cares enough about you to hand write you these long letters. He doesn't harass you or impose himself on you in any other way. And he keeps doing it even though you never reply to them. Personally, it just shows he has good taste in women. How can I be upset with him for that? Accept the letters and be gracious and polite to him. Someday when your beauty has faded, these letters will remind you of the power it once had.

dude just read the book. So much of what you are saying is already in the book.

Ok, seems like I owe you an apology 20Nation. I should have read the whole book and I would have had you indicated in the beginning that the stories were really only examples of what you learned from the whole process and that the real information is in the conclusion. In this regard, you may want to add something to this effect as a preface. There is no indication when reading the stories that they are in anyway connected to larger discussion or coming conclusion.

Other than that, great book, and I agree with all of your final assessments. I will write a positive review on Amazon about it and mention this. Sorry about the misunderstanding on my part.

(11-10-2013 11:44 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Ok, seems like I owe you an apology 20Nation. I should have read the whole book and I would have had you indicated in the beginning that the stories were really only examples of what you learned from the whole process and that the real information is in the conclusion. In this regard, you may want to add something to this effect as a preface. There is no indication when reading the stories that they are in anyway connected to larger discussion or coming conclusion.

Other than that, great book, and I agree with all of your final assessments. I will write a positive review on Amazon about it and mention this. Sorry about the misunderstanding on my part.

No problem man, I'm glad we got the misunderstanding cleared up. Yeah maybe I should add something in the beginning to clear those things up. And I appreciate the review

Nomad77 Wrote:(...) Looking back, every single time a woman starts talking or seeing other guys while in a relationship with me was because I started giving her reasons to do so. (...)

That's "player projection". Most relationships don't end up exploring other options for that reason. Actually, I'd say that the most common reason on this planet for the woman exploring other options is the man being Beta and thus unattractive (but making her feel very secure), which is the exact opposite of your case.

Certainly some of 20Nation's experiences could be classified as such, but I'd be extremely wary of transforming it into some kind of global rule.

True, just like men, women will cheat for a variety of reasons but I would say feeling insecure about a relationship would be one of the top 5.

(11-07-2013 07:14 PM)n0000 Wrote:  It is an interesting read, but the problem is one of selection bias. Guys on this forum are going to attract certain girls because they use similar techniques to get these girls. The way you talk to people, your personality and the things you do act like a sieve to channel you into meeting particular types of people. Look at the SEA thread where it turns out that several forum members have had sex with the same girl is a city with millions of people! Guys on this forum are going to be more likely to run into a girl who hits the bars 4 nights a week, and less likely to get to know the girl who is home baking cookies with her grandma and preparing an outfit for church the following morning.

There is such a thing as charm and charisma, but we should not be hasty to think that the entire female population behaves in the exact same manner as girls that are in bars on a regular basis. The extreme attention seeking behavior shown by these girls can manifest both in more time in bars and more time attention whoring and stringing along guys on fb/dating sites. Girls are certainly more perfidious and dishonest than men, but the girls in the book may be somewhat extreme examples.

So, NAWALT, huh?

Fact is, there are NO good girls. ALL girls *are* like that. Some of them act on it more often, some of them indulge more, while some abstain- but when they show better behavior then whorish depravity, its is mostly because they have to- social consequences, etc.- not out of actual self-discipline of strength of character.

Women are depraved creatures, and to suggest otherwise is at your own peril. NAWALT leads to One-itis, which leads to MarkMinterism.

Nobody wants that....

You know what, I wouldn't have a problem with all of this so long as everyone is honest with each other.

Going on a long trip? Break it off and keep each other on ice. Let each other go free and sleep around. Long distance never works. Just be honest and explain the story and be real with each other's expectations and limits.

AWALT, unless you've tied a ring on the finger and then still don't have any expectations for fidelity.

(11-10-2013 11:44 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Ok, seems like I owe you an apology 20Nation. I should have read the whole book and I would have had you indicated in the beginning that the stories were really only examples of what you learned from the whole process and that the real information is in the conclusion. In this regard, you may want to add something to this effect as a preface. There is no indication when reading the stories that they are in anyway connected to larger discussion or coming conclusion.

Other than that, great book, and I agree with all of your final assessments. I will write a positive review on Amazon about it and mention this. Sorry about the misunderstanding on my part.

Nomad77, that was pretty solid of you to finish reading and to clarify your position. Much respect.

Im in the same boat as Nomad,without the apology.
I don't see anything profound or new about this book and Im not impressed with the conclusion or what you learned.

Devils advocate. A woman could have wrote this books and dated men...she would have had the same conclusion.
The ending two chapters were also nothing special. Maybe not common knowledge..but I dont think you need to be part of this forum to know these things.

Take it or leave it.
It seems like you were/are a very insecure person and put lots of women on a pedestal. That insecurity made you trick people an dig into their personal lives (which one user said...in this case is somewhat illegal)
One person above also says that it seems like you elevated your emotions to much.
All the stories have you doing the same experiment,hoping for different results and when your results werent different..you were heartbroken. It took multiple relationships..with women that,( to be honest..probably shouldnt have been on your relationship list to begin with) before you were hit with the idea that nobody is really innocent.
You would be mad at other girls..that see other guys why you take a vacation...to see other chicks?
where is the logic in this?

(11-11-2013 09:44 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  Im in the same boat as Nomad,without the apology.
I don't see anything profound or new about this book and Im not impressed with the conclusion or what you learned.

Devils advocate. A woman could have wrote this books and dated men...she would have had the same conclusion.
The ending two chapters were also nothing special. Maybe not common knowledge..but I dont think you need to be part of this forum to know these things.

Take it or leave it.
It seems like you were/are a very insecure person and put lots of women on a pedestal. That insecurity made you trick people an dig into their personal lives (which one user said...in this case is somewhat illegal)
One person above also says that it seems like you elevated your emotions to much.
All the stories have you doing the same experiment,hoping for different results and when your results werent different..you were heartbroken. It took multiple relationships..with women that,( to be honest..probably shouldnt have been on your relationship list to begin with) before you were hit with the idea that nobody is really innocent.
You would be mad at other girls..that see other guys why you take a vacation...to see other chicks?
where is the logic in this?

This book isn't meant for you, it's meant for the billions of guys who don't know what women are like. Yeah in the book I wasn't smart, I thought with emotions, I constantly wanted to believe that all women were Disney princesses as I had been told all my life.

I'm sure in your youth you learned all this the hard way and that's why it's as you say "nothing new". But there are billions of other dudes out there who haven't figured it out, the idea is that they won't get so emotionally caught off guard when they do find out their wife/gf is cheating on them or sending nude photos to another man.

@ Sourcecode

Not all of us are stonecold players. Honestly, I'm still going through a lot of what 20Nation deals with in the book, even though I'm close to triple digit notches. And it isn't the same when taken from a woman's perspective. Women hide and lie much more than men about sex. You can call it a double standard, but women also have it much easier in other areas. If honesty were factored into the equation, it wouldn't be so bad, but it's the fact that women are so deceptive that makes this issue worth talking about. Most men don't get it..

Some dudes are more prepared to fuck girls, and have emotions of steel, where they just don't care what the girl does. Others get more invested emotionally in certain girls.

The topic of emotions/affections and how you deal with them in the game is probably one of the least covered topics in the niche. Most men don't want to admit they have emotions, that yes, they sometimes do care if the girl fucks another guy. It's an important topic to address, and this book does it well with an interesting premise.

As for people insinuating 20Nation will get sued, I doubt it. First of all, how will the women find out? Secondly, he doesn't really disclose that many details in the book. There's nothing illegal here. There's definitely a lot of hate being directed at the OP here.

I think the book is really good. I'll get around to writing a review of it soon. I read about 4 of the stories, skimmed, then read the conclusion. I lolled about the cuckold story. Reminds me of when I banged girls who were in a relationship.

There are also many other topics of female behavior that I don't think the book touched (that most men also don't know about well). One issue I find is that women enjoy seeing men (lovers, suitors, boyfriends, orbiters) come into conflict with one another. Women derive pleasure from seeing men compete. Frankly, many women are extremely sado-masochistic in that sense. They enjoy seeing men in pain in certain situations. But that's for another book I suppose.

I actually experienced close to the same thing, only with 1 girl.
My thread: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-27048.html

Moral of the story: Don't open the closet if you don't wanna see the monster.

But then again we're red pill guys, we can't be at peace if we don't see the monster.