Post: #26

What is TRT's affect on your ability to get work done?

Are you more focused, able to work longer, etc.?

Post: #27

200 mg is a high dose for TRT, assuming you're getting it from a doc. If it's underground stuff, it'll be underdosed so 200 mg is more like 125 to 150 mg. But if it's pharm grade, that's a lot.

Most TRT is gonna be 125 mg or so. 200 mg is great, though, if that's what your doctor will write. Most docs (even anti-aging clinics) won't.

If you need an AI at TRT doses, then your bodyfat is too high.

HGC is fine for ball volume, but my balls have always been big. Past a certain age, they just hang down low. It looks gross and also makes riding the exercise bike hard. YMMV.

As for fertility...Most guys just go off, restore their natural production, and then have kids. Hell, some guys bought into the hype that TRT is a male birth control pill and still knocked up their wives/girlfriends. You can still get a girl pregnant if on test and not running hcg.

Some guys bloat on cyp. For them, prop is better. Despite Internet chatter, most guys are just fine pinning prop 2x week.

Prop can have more PIP (pain at injection point). Other guys don't have any issues with PIP.

Cyp means an inject every 5 days or so. So cyp is fewer injects but can bloat. Prop is more injects and maybe some PIP but might not bloat.

Most docs don't know the difference between cyp and prop and will only rx cyp. If you educate your doctor (or go to one who actually know what he's doing), he can write you a script for prop. There are compounding pharmacies that will make your prop and mail it to you.

Generic cyp is like $65 at Costco. Prop is gonna cost more, though not that much more.

As with a lot of things, it's hard to generalize and is discovered through trial and error on one's self.

Post: #28

(10-13-2013 11:05 AM)MHaes Wrote:  What is TRT's affect on your ability to get work done?

Are you more focused, able to work longer, etc.?

It's like this.

I hated being in my early 20s. Hormones are raging and your myelin sheaths havent closed, so your prefrontal context isn't fully developed.

I wasn't fully mature as a man until my late 20s, when my brain was fully developed.

(Male brain is not fully developed until 25-27. That's why young guys fuck up so much.)

Raging hormones + an undeveloped prefrontal cortex = poor impulse control.

Well, imagine you've lived a few years on this earth. You have judgment. You have discretion. You don't have FOMO because you've seen a few things and can just "walk away" if something looks wrong.

Now imagine your hormones (which are largely responsible for male energy) are in check.

It shouldn't be too hard to see how this is a game changer for men in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

Post: #29

(10-13-2013 09:33 AM)ralphi Wrote:  I foresee another male hair loss thread popping up. I think shooting test is gonna make you guys go bald if you do it too young. bad idea.

the voice of the uninformed.

Baldness isn't dictated by test, conversion of test to dht can speed up the balding process if one is predisposed to hair loss, if you aren't predisposed then adding test to the mix isn't going to do anything but possibly add some hair to places you dont want it lol.

Post: #30

Hey bro, I use insulin pins and inject subcutaneously (into the fat), I find this way really smooth and it really reduces the spikes in the blood.

For me personally the mixture of fulvic/humic acid and humanofort is THE best supplement combo I have ever taken bar non. I cannot put a price on the wellbeing and health benefits that they both bring.

Typically I'll run 75mg of test enanthate per week for around 10 weeks and I'll then do 175mg per week for 6 weeks all year round. Taking small 25mg shots into the fat keeps the conversion to estrogen to almost nil and mimic more closely the bodies natural pulses of testosterone.

For ball size I take these supplements and doses.
Fulvic/humic acid - 1 shot(fluid oz) or 300mg per day (humicin brand is the best)
200mg of humanofort
1000mg of tribulus (make sure it has a high saponin content)
6 raw eggs per day
dim - 100mg per day(prostate protection)
1teaspoon pumpkin seed oil (prostate protection)
1 tablespoon high strength fish oil (brain and cholesterol health)

This supplement regime keeps my balls bigger and fuller than before I was on trt.

This is what's been working for me and my blood work comes back perfect, hope it helps.

(10-13-2013 08:56 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 10:05 AM)007 Wrote:  Bro, maybe you should consider starting with a slightly lower dose. I take 75mg of test enanthate per week injected split into 3 micro doses. This has brought my test up from 500 to 900-950. And because of the very small 25mg doses hardly any of the test converts to estrogen, no anti-e's required. I'm a bjj/westling guy and having my test up to maximal physiological range is just amazing. As far as the nuts go, I keep mines nice and plump with the following supplements: fulvic acid, humanofort, bulgarian tribulus/daa and six raw eggs per day. My balls are actually bigger than when I started the test injections. I find that for me personally hcg spikes my estrogen too much. Or you could try adding clomid to your trt regime .

I think that injections are superior to gels and patches. You just never know how much is getting absorbed through your skin and it can vary on a day to day basis. With injections you atleast know hoe many mg's you are getting in each shot that you take.

And be careful about how much anti estrogen you are taking, you might be overdoing it.

what needles do you use?

and you've really seen a nice boost from humanofort? i went through a whole bottle and didnt notice much.

i have the same problem with hcg, huge esto spike and like 10 lbs water gain with even a 250 iu shot

what doses do you use for your 'ball size supplements' ?

Post: #31

(10-12-2013 07:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 04:12 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I am not on any treatment but I take Sustanon every third day, looking at the benefits is there an argument against using this stuff?

If you are under 35 I am not sure I would mess with the stuff, I am in my 40s and feel more manly when I am on the stuff.

You have to learn to become your own doctor.

Get your own labs done. This is not optional.

Understand what CBC and blood counts mean.

Learn about liver function and kidney function.

Learn about estradiol.

Learn about how HDL levels and how TRT can impact them.

Then get labs done, monitor your biomarkers, and make sure everything is golden.

The irony about calling steroids unhealthy is that real users (not dumb ass teenagers) get more lab work done, understand what labs mean, and are actually healthier than most people because great attention and care is given to health biomarkers.

But you gotta put the work in.

It's worth it.

Thank you for this info. Appreciate it a lot. I will be 30 in a year and really want to start knowing this stuff because I honestly don't know to much right now. Any good links you can send me to where I can get my study on.

I'm thinking about starting TRT even though a year ago a urologist told me I didn't need to when I tested around 500. He said it was a 'normal' level for my age.

I think it was more a denial thing for me and now I'm finally putting my ego aside and ready to get the good stuff.

Post: #32

(10-13-2013 12:57 PM)007 Wrote:  Hey bro, I use insulin pins and inject subcutaneously (into the fat), I find this way really smooth and it really reduces the spikes in the blood.

For me personally the mixture of fulvic/humic acid and humanofort is THE best supplement combo I have ever taken bar non. I cannot put a price on the wellbeing and health benefits that they both bring.

Typically I'll run 75mg of test enanthate per week for around 10 weeks and I'll then do 175mg per week for 6 weeks all year round. Taking small 25mg shots into the fat keeps the conversion to estrogen to almost nil and mimic more closely the bodies natural pulses of testosterone.

For ball size I take these supplements and doses.
Fulvic/humic acid - 1 shot(fluid oz) or 300mg per day (humicin brand is the best)
200mg of humanofort
1000mg of tribulus (make sure it has a high saponin content)
6 raw eggs per day
dim - 100mg per day(prostate protection)
1teaspoon pumpkin seed oil (prostate protection)
1 tablespoon high strength fish oil (brain and cholesterol health)

This supplement regime keeps my balls bigger and fuller than before I was on trt.

This is what's been working for me and my blood work comes back perfect, hope it helps.

(10-13-2013 08:56 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 10:05 AM)007 Wrote:  Bro, maybe you should consider starting with a slightly lower dose. I take 75mg of test enanthate per week injected split into 3 micro doses. This has brought my test up from 500 to 900-950. And because of the very small 25mg doses hardly any of the test converts to estrogen, no anti-e's required. I'm a bjj/westling guy and having my test up to maximal physiological range is just amazing. As far as the nuts go, I keep mines nice and plump with the following supplements: fulvic acid, humanofort, bulgarian tribulus/daa and six raw eggs per day. My balls are actually bigger than when I started the test injections. I find that for me personally hcg spikes my estrogen too much. Or you could try adding clomid to your trt regime .

I think that injections are superior to gels and patches. You just never know how much is getting absorbed through your skin and it can vary on a day to day basis. With injections you atleast know hoe many mg's you are getting in each shot that you take.

And be careful about how much anti estrogen you are taking, you might be overdoing it.

what needles do you use?

and you've really seen a nice boost from humanofort? i went through a whole bottle and didnt notice much.

i have the same problem with hcg, huge esto spike and like 10 lbs water gain with even a 250 iu shot

what doses do you use for your 'ball size supplements' ?

Can you send me some links of the brands you take of that stuff. I'd like to look into them. Have never taken those acids before. Thanks.

Right now im on some solgar korean ginseng and it has me feeling really good at the gym and in the bedroom.

Post: #33

Hoping to get some feedback on some T related changes I am considering instituting.

Supplements

-Increase Vit D-3 intake to 10,000 units once daily (up from 5,000)
My Vit D 25-OH level was 39.6; normal range [30-100]

-Add Vitamin K2, Menatetrenone 5mg once daily
Supposed to be beneficial along with Vit D-3

-Start Methylcobalamin (methyl B12) 5,000 mcg lozenge once daily
My Vit B-12 level was 422 [200-950]

-Start ZMA once daily (Vit B6 15mg / Magnesium Aspartate 450mg / Zinc L-methionine 30mg)

-Start Iodoral 12.5mg once daily (5mg Iodine + 7.5 mg Potassium Iodide)
My TSH level was 3.74 [0.5-4.5]; free T3 and free T4 levels were within normal range. More recent thinking suggests that TSH >3 is suggestive of hypothyroidism. My thought is that Iodine supplementation may help.


Testosterone

Recently visited with a local HRT doc; who it seems is willing to allow me to concoct my own HRT formulation.
His usual Rx cocktail includes Testosterone injection, Anastrozole, HCG, and Clomiphene.
[No HGH unfortunately]
He had suggested a 12-wk program consisting of 10-wks on Test + AI (no HCG); followed by 2 wks of no Test, with HCG + clomiphene.
However, given my background and display of more-than-novice knowledge of the subject he is willing to allow me to tailor my therapy.

Some relevant bkgrnd:
31yo
6'0" 188lbs

Total Testosterone 504 [348-1197]
Free Testosterone 16.1 [8.7-25.1]
Estradiol 37.3 [7.6-42.6]
LH 4.6 [1.7-8.6]
FSH 3.2 [1.5-12.4]
SHBG 34.2 [16.5-55.9]
DHT 35 [30-85]
Pregnenolone 116 [<151]
Prolactin 18.1 [4.0-15.2]
Progesterone 1.5 [0.2-1.4]

I'd be interested to hear comments, and more importantly advice from you guys, as to how to precisely and ideally tailor the start of my TRT.
My personal proposal right now is:
-Testosterone Cypionate 50mg subQ every 3 days
-hCG 250iu subQ every other day
-Anastrozole 0.25mg every other day

I don't see the benefit of a 10-week on Test / 2-week off Test protocol, and instead am leaning towards simply staying On Testosterone indefinitely.
As there will be no Off Testosterone period, I don't see the need for Clomiphene. Does that sound about right?

My plan would be to get bloodwork done after being on a HRT protocol for 4 weeks, and then make necessary adjustments to Test and AI dosage at that time. (Not sure what, if any labs, could help guide adjustments necessary to the hCG dosage.)

Lingering HRT questions:
-what ester of Testosterone should I opt for? (cypionate, enanthate, propionate ... knowing that prop may be complicated by PIP)
-should i opt for a brand name Aromatase Inhibitor (i.e. Arimidex) instead of a generic AI (i.e. anastrozole)?
-what types of syringes and needles should i request an Rx be written for?
-should i adjust Testosterone dosage to every other day so as to allow for easier coordination with concurrent hCG dosing? (i.e. being able to remember all injections on the same day instead of overlapping pattern)


Eagerly await thoughts regarding my plans for Supplements and Testosterone.

Post: #34

MikeCF (or anyone else), have you heard of something called "bio-identical pellet therapy."

http://www.myhormonetherapy.com/bioident...erapy/men/

They appear to implant some pellets containing test into you, which presumably slowly releases it into your blood stream.

Quote:If you are deemed an appropriate candidate for testosterone therapy (and after baseline blood work and appropriate consultation), you will have a small area of skin at your waist line below the “love handle” area numbed with a local anesthetic. A small cut in the skin of about a 16th of an inch (3 millimeters) is made in the numb area. A tiny metal tube with a plunger then painlessly inserts the testosterone pellets into the deep fat where you won’t be able to feel it. A steri-strip skin tape is used to cover the small skin opening which falls off in 4 or 5 days after the skin heals closed. That’s it! Come back every 4 months to repeat the process. For 5 days after the insertion. You should not do high impact activities or put direct pressure on the pellets (by performing sit-ups on a hard floor for example). If you want to stop treatment – stop when you are willing to feel the way you did before treatment.

This doctor charges $1000/insertion, so basically $3000/year. Seems rather expensive compared to the injections, even with the obviously greater convenience.

Post: #35

007: thanks for the info

do you back load the insulin pins? i've found it takes forever and a fucking day to pull through even small amounts of oil into those pins

i may make the switch, i've read good things about subq injections and i'm already having scar tissue issues on various injection sites. if i hit it with an injection seems like damn near half of it will shoot right back out and leak everywhere.

i'd be happy to go subq for a while

Post: #36

Yes bro, I back load everything. For trt purposes I'll never go back to intra muscular.

(10-14-2013 11:06 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  007: thanks for the info

do you back load the insulin pins? i've found it takes forever and a fucking day to pull through even small amounts of oil into those pins

i may make the switch, i've read good things about subq injections and i'm already having scar tissue issues on various injection sites. if i hit it with an injection seems like damn near half of it will shoot right back out and leak everywhere.

i'd be happy to go subq for a while

Post: #37

Fuck destroying your natural T levels with injections.... look up a drug called Clomid which is actually also a female fertility drug.

http://www.ergo-log.com/clomid-testosterone.html

If you have low T - a low dosage of 25mg Clomid a day will give a huge boost to low testosterone levels and best of all it will all be naturally produced and not synthetic and not destroying your sperm count and shrinking your balls

Post: #38

(10-14-2013 08:11 PM)KanyeWest Wrote:  Fuck destroying your natural T levels with injections.... look up a drug called Clomid which is actually also a female fertility drug.

http://www.ergo-log.com/clomid-testosterone.html

If you have low T - a low dosage of 25mg Clomid a day will give a huge boost to low testosterone levels and best of all it will all be naturally produced and not synthetic and not destroying your sperm count and shrinking your balls

Are you gonna let Mike finish?

Fuckin Kanye West, always interrupting.

Post: #39

^ Another no (or one) rep wonder.

Never met a guy on the forum.

Never dropped any legit data worthy of recognition.

But he's gonna come in and condescend to us all.

Loser.

Post: #40

Here's how to use a slin pin. You gotta back fill the slin pin using a normal syringe.

Post: #41

(10-13-2013 06:10 PM)sthesia Wrote:  Total Testosterone 504 [348-1197]
Free Testosterone 16.1 [8.7-25.1]

My question would be why you think you need TRT with those numbers.

Not judging, but above 500 is still pretty good. (Obviously 1100 feels MUCH better.)

If you're willing to make the commitment with a doc, cool. 500 is the "cut off" for a lot of anti-aging clinics so it's not like 500 isn't low enough.

For the first 4 weeks on TRT, you'll be a beast and feel like you're on gear.

Your body won't be shut down yet, so you'll have the natural 500 levels + TRT.

So you'd be better off seeing how you feel after 6 to 8 weeks.

An AI is an AI. Generic is as good as brand name. It's the same stuff.

Needles depends on how you're gonna shot.

You can go 5/8", 25 gauge needles if you're going into your delt.

If you're gonna hit the glute, you'll need 1.5" needles.

If you're gonna use a slin pin (per the video I just posted), then you'll just need a big enough gauge needly to draw the test from the vial.

"slin pin" = insulin syringes. They are going to be 29 or 30 gauge. Just say insulin syringe and your doc will know.

There are lots of good YouTube videos showing how to give an intramuscular injection in the delt and glute. Check 'em out and see if that's the route you wanna take.

Post: #42

The only time I've ever got an abscess was from back filling an insulin syringe. I stopped pinning test via subq because draw time is so freaking slow with a needle.

Post: #43

I don't know how much of a good idea longterm clomid use is. Your body knows exactly what to do with testosterone, but clomid. To be honest I have tried it and I got every side effect in the book: bitch ass mood swings, floaters in the eyes, it was just terrible. Clomid does have it's uses though and when combined with hmg and some high quality herbal extracts is great for getting your sperm count nice and high. But then again, I once got a girl knocked up whilst I was on a 3 steroid combo.

Post: #44

(10-13-2013 06:10 PM)sthesia Wrote:  Hoping to get some feedback on some T related changes I am considering instituting.

Supplements


-Start Iodoral 12.5mg once daily (5mg Iodine + 7.5 mg Potassium Iodide)
My TSH level was 3.74 [0.5-4.5]; free T3 and free T4 levels were within normal range. More recent thinking suggests that TSH >3 is suggestive of hypothyroidism. My thought is that Iodine supplementation may help.

Eagerly await thoughts regarding my plans for Supplements and Testosterone.

Bro, be careful with iodine supplementation, it's very powerful.

I supplemented on Iodoral for a year. At first things were fine, and I noticed my hair thickening.

Then it all went to shit.

I would get depressed easily, cold all the time, constipation, etc.

Doctor checked my TSH levels twice over eight months, both times very elevated (over 6).

While not confirming, doctor guessed that I have Hashimoto's disease. Apparently supplementing with iodine increases the immune system's attack on the thyroid gland, i.e., it's akin to dousing a fire with gasoline. I just got my TSH levels checked again (along with test levels) and will be going on Armour if my TSH is still out of whack.

While YMMV, supplementing with iodine may cause lasting damage to your thyroid. I'd therefore stop supplementing if I were you. If you think something's up with your thyroid, go to a naturopath who is more likely willing to run a full thyroid panel and put you on Armour if something's amiss. Iodine supplementation could at best help a little and at worst permanently damage your thyroid.

I was taking 7,000iu of Vitamin D per day, and only could get up my levels to 27. As I said, I just got blood work done again, and if my Vitamin D level is still below 30 even after supplementing 7,000iu per day, then I'm going to bump it up to 12,000iu per day.

Your Vitamin D level should be above 50 in order to start gaining the full benefits. If I were you I'd take a Vitamin D test again in a month, and if it hasn't moved above 50, then I'd bump up the dosage.

Post: #45

What kind of vitamin d are you using. Bio forte is the truth and gets into the system very well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bio+fort...ent=safari

Post: #46

I would love to start off with some hgh at a low level over 4-6 months followed by some doc prescribed trt. I just don't know where to even begin to obtain the hgh. Sucks. I'd rather spend my money on that than all the other dumb shit I buy.

Post: #47

If your D levels aren't increasing, your supplement is bunk. Get a reputable brand like Carlson's.

You can order your own Vitamin D test at Private MD Labs (linked to above). It's like $60 before the coupon.

Post: #48

(10-15-2013 08:18 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  I would love to start off with some hgh at a low level over 4-6 months followed by some doc prescribed trt. I just don't know where to even begin to obtain the hgh. Sucks. I'd rather spend my money on that than all the other dumb shit I buy.

What do you think the hgh will accomplish?

Post: #49

(10-15-2013 08:30 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 08:18 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  I would love to start off with some hgh at a low level over 4-6 months followed by some doc prescribed trt. I just don't know where to even begin to obtain the hgh. Sucks. I'd rather spend my money on that than all the other dumb shit I buy.

What do you think the hgh will accomplish?

Mostly from all the good stuff I've read about it. And I've heard some good things from some guys I played college ball with.

I'm 29. 6' 3" and fluctuate from around 210-220.

I've been lifting off and on (more on) for about 9 years. I think I've got a good base and some good potential.

What I'm looking for is the fountain of youth aspect. The strength increase and the fat loss. I'm big and muscular but not exactly ripped. I look ripped when I'm flexing or sprinting but not just standing doing nothing. For me to be ripped I have to go really low carb and I sacrifice strength. I've come a long way though. People who knew me in high school see me now and ask me what I'm on. Even though I'm all natural.

I'm really looking for those anti aging benefits. Nice skin, thick hair, good fat loss, more energy, sex drive and more strength and well being.

I'm getting blood work Friday and going to a trt doc Tuesday. I read that gh15 blog you recommend and he spoke of going on hgh low dose before starting test.

That's really what made me write that comment.

I also still play semi pro and I would like to see what some gh and test can do.

Post: #50

GH can heal chronic injuries. It takes mega doses to get muscle gains and is a waste of money for the average guy if that's the goal.

GH + test/tren = potentiate the test/tren.

GH can get expensive. Riptropin (there were some legit kits going around) is $2.90 per iu. At 2 ius per day, it adds up.

Pharm grade is $12-18/iu.

But 2 ius (even of the Chinese stuff, if you find good Chinese stuff) will heal up a lot of chronic injuries and get rid of aches and pains from a lifetime of athletics.

The huge problem is with fakes. Even guys who have a "source" are careful not to give it out because....Even if the last batch bought was good, it doesn't mean that the new batch will be.

China can fake everything. They can do boxes with serial numbers, set up websits to authenticate the product (i.e., "Go here to make sure you have legit Kintropin," when it's really just a "legit fake.")

But you can go to eroids to read reviews of vendors. Then find a reputable vendor and do what everyone does....

Place your order and hope for the best.