Post: #1

One of Japan's greatest authors wrote this in his novel Forbidden Colors:

Women can bring nothing into this world but children. Men can father all kinds of things besides children. Creation, reproduction, and propagation are all male capabilities.

Woman's jealousy is simply jealousy of creativity. A woman who bears a son and brings him up tastes the honeyed joy of revenge against creativity. When she stands in the way of creation she feels she has something to live for. The craving for luxury and spending is a destructive craving.


Red Pill has been around for a while.

Post: #2

According to this writer, Mishima was gay.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscar...ishima.php

I don't mean to be argumentative, but "Red Pill" is a jingoistic oversimplified abstraction that doesn't really provide a good basis for discussing real world policies or laws.

Post: #3

What does it matter if he was gay? Oscar Wilde was gay too, and he wrote many sensible things about women too.

Red pill = common sense. I don't think common sense is not a useful platform for examining the world around us.

Post: #4

(09-29-2013 01:40 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  Women can bring nothing into this world but children. Men can father all kinds of things besides children. Creation, reproduction, and propagation are all male capabilities.

Woman's jealousy is simply jealousy of creativity. A woman who bears a son and brings him up tastes the honeyed joy of revenge against creativity. When she stands in the way of creation she feels she has something to live for. The craving for luxury and spending is a destructive craving.

Seems a bit extreme to me, but whaddya expect from a guy who formed his own private militia with designer uniforms, tried to overthrow the elected government of Japan in favor of returning to absolute rule by the Emperor, and then committed ritual suicide by disembowelment when the coup did not succeed?

Mishima (1985) is a great movie - directed by Paul Schrader. Tells the story.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089603/

Post: #5

More from Forbidden Colors:

Mrs. Kaburagi is a jukujo married to a gay guy. She wants Yuichi, who is protrayed as very attractive and aloof:


Nevertheless, wherever she went, Mrs. Kaburagi felt the gaze of Yuichi's proud contempt following her. That gaze would say: Get down on your knees. At once-down on your knees before me!"
........
No however, drunk with the nectar of submission-pathetically going so far as to believe that this sweetness was the boon of her own cunning-.....


Some good stuff in the novel but overall disappointing.

Post: #6

It would have been difficult for Mishima to write something different as he was openly gay.

Contrary to popular belief dictated by Hollywood and by the modern japanease films the samurai culture that Mishima tried to resurrect was profoundly gay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan

http://www.androphile.org/preview/Cu...apan/japan.htm

Like Spartans marriage was mainly seen only for procreational purposes

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questi...murai-life

"But the indelible fact remains that one of the fundamental aspects of samurai life was the emotional and sexual bond cultivated between an older warrior and a younger apprentice, a love for which the Japanese have many names, as many perhaps as the Eskimo have for snow"

http://asianhistory.tumblr.com/post/8709...-relations

http://www.stthomasu.ca/~parkhill/cj01/irepam.htm

"The tradition of male on male love was greatly encouraged within the samurai class. It was considered useful to boys in teaching them virtue, honesty and the appreciation of beauty. While at the same time the love of women was often devalued for its so called 'feminising' effect."

so Mishima and most of the Tokugawa period samurai wouldn't have joined Roosh Forum for sure

Post: #7

(09-30-2013 01:24 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  According to this writer, Mishima was gay.
[...]

What does that have to do with it?

If anything, many gay men are more red pill than the average straight dude. They have better game than many guys on this forum, and bigger balls while pursuing their targets. They see women clearly and will often put them in their place. That's why many cool gay guys have hot female friends.

I am talking from experience as a bartender and someone who has always gotten a ridiculous amount of attention from them. Seriously, you can learn a lot about direct game by watching them.

They will approach. Doesn't matter if you're straight. They will flirt. They will outright say they think you're hot. Rejection? They laugh it off with genuine not a single care in the world about it.

Now tell me what is so alpha about most straight guys?

Most are blinded and controlled by pussy (terrible quality pussy).
They gays are just horny and follow their dick with impunity.
Gay men: Truly an inspiration!

Post: #8

I have serious doubts about the credibility of Hollywood or even historians who call people from the past gay.

It seems like everyone from the past who doesn't follow our current line of thinking is labeled as a fag to try and stop young men from learning from history. Yeah sure, call the non materialist spartans fags. That way young men will be sure not to live by spartan materialistic standards and stop spending money.

Yeah sure call the ancient Greeks fags so young men won't wonder why we have deviated from their form of Democracy. Can't have them challenging the status quo.

I can't tell you how many history teachers I had try and force feed this fag stuff down my throat in high school. It was ridiculous.

Any guy who didn't get married (Ben Franklyn) FAG.

Any guy who didn't practice Democracy like Americans (Ancient Greece) FAGS.

Serious, what a bunch of bullshit. How can you honestly expect me to believe that you can figure out people from hundreds or even thousands of years ago were fags. I don't buy it. Fuck you.

Post: #9

(10-13-2013 09:22 AM)ralphi Wrote:  I have serious doubts about the credibility of Hollywood or even historians who call people from the past gay.

I, too, have such doubts, but for different reasons.

The idea that ancient Greeks were all gay seems to have started in late 19th century British Oxbridge academics, and the meme spread like wildfire. Why? My guess is that some gays believe that they themselves are defective human beings, and to deal with their demons, they are prone to see gays everywhere they look in any time in history. It probably makes them feel less defective, since they then see themselves as victims of oppression, rather than as victims of biology. Easier to blame others than to blame oneself.

Note, however, that this is merely an hypothesis. Given that I have not been granted access to a time machine, it cannot be verified whether ancient Greeks were all gay or not. However, people who have re-read the ancient scriptures in ancient Greek have commented that the gay lobby has wildly misinterpreted the relations between men in ancient Greece.

The love between a master and pupil can be completely non-sexual. It's natural. The master's life will end someday, and for knowledge to be preserved and passed to the next generation, the master must find a pupil whose personality and spirit are compatible. This is not about sex, it's about spiritual adoption: one can choose one's pupils, but one cannot choose one's biological children. Intellectual compatibility can lead to the creation of very strong bonds. I have no idea why so many modern people fail to understand this. A man's child preserves (part of) his genes, a man's pupil preserves (part of) his knowledge.

Post: #10

(10-13-2013 09:22 AM)ralphi Wrote:  Serious, what a bunch of bullshit. How can you honestly expect me to believe that you can figure out people from hundreds or even thousands of years ago were fags. I don't buy it. Fuck you.

Umm... Ever thought about reading what they wrote. They wrote books.

Post: #11

(10-13-2013 09:52 AM)sixsix Wrote:  Umm... Ever thought about reading what they wrote. They wrote books.

Do you know Ancient Greek? Or Latin?

Post: #12

(10-13-2013 09:58 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 09:52 AM)sixsix Wrote:  Umm... Ever thought about reading what they wrote. They wrote books.

Do you know Ancient Greek? Or Latin?

Are you serious? Since when you need to know ancient Greek or Latin to read books from those eras?

Post: #13

(10-13-2013 12:38 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  Are you serious? Since when you need to know ancient Greek or Latin to read books from those eras?

Even if you do know Ancient Greek or Latin, when reading old books from those eras your thinking will be contaminated by your own biases and beliefs. If you read translations of such books, then it's even worse, since you also have to take into account the biases and beliefs of the translator.

Old books are somewhat incomprehensible. You can read the words they wrote, but you have no way of ensuring that the meaning you assign to those words is the same meaning ancient peoples assigned to them. Which is why it's interesting to read several translations of the same old book, written in different centuries. You average out the biases and beliefs of the translators that way, and have to deal only with your own.

Post: #14

(09-30-2013 10:08 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  Seems a bit extreme to me, but whaddya expect from a guy who formed his own private militia with designer uniforms, tried to overthrow the elected government of Japan in favor of returning to absolute rule by the Emperor, and then committed ritual suicide by disembowelment when the coup did not succeed?

Mishima (1985) is a great movie - directed by Paul Schrader. Tells the story.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089603/

In addition to the fact that this guy was pretty out there mentally, he also won prizes for literature and was heavily into bodybuilding for the last 15 years of his life. He's like the Japanese version of Arnold Schwarzeneggar. I remember reading The Temple of The Golden Pavilion several years ago and really enjoying it. He definitely had a very unique writing style and picks up on certain uncomfortable truths about human nature that you really don't see explored in Western Literature.

Also when you consider the fact that he went out exactly how and when he wanted to because he considered modern culture to be weak compared to traditional ideals, I think he lived a pretty admirable life overall.

He also spoke English fluently, here he is talking about how he didn't want people to think Japanese culture was about peacefulness and flower arrangements and shit:

Post: #15

(10-13-2013 09:22 AM)ralphi Wrote:  I have serious doubts about the credibility of Hollywood or even historians who call people from the past gay.

It seems like everyone from the past who doesn't follow our current line of thinking is labeled as a fag to try and stop young men from learning from history. Yeah sure, call the non materialist spartans fags. That way young men will be sure not to live by spartan materialistic standards and stop spending money.

Yeah sure call the ancient Greeks fags so young men won't wonder why we have deviated from their form of Democracy. Can't have them challenging the status quo.

I can't tell you how many history teachers I had try and force feed this fag stuff down my throat in high school. It was ridiculous.

Any guy who didn't get married (Ben Franklyn) FAG.

Any guy who didn't practice Democracy like Americans (Ancient Greece) FAGS.

Serious, what a bunch of bullshit. How can you honestly expect me to believe that you can figure out people from hundreds or even thousands of years ago were fags. I don't buy it. Fuck you.

if you are such a genius that can rewrite history books publish your data and sources or go trolling somewhere else

Post: #16

(10-13-2013 08:24 AM)callaghan Wrote:  It would have been difficult for Mishima to write something different as he was openly gay.

Contrary to popular belief dictated by Hollywood and by the modern japanease films the samurai culture that Mishima tried to resurrect was profoundly gay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan

http://www.androphile.org/preview/Cu...apan/japan.htm

Like Spartans marriage was mainly seen only for procreational purposes

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questi...murai-life

"But the indelible fact remains that one of the fundamental aspects of samurai life was the emotional and sexual bond cultivated between an older warrior and a younger apprentice, a love for which the Japanese have many names, as many perhaps as the Eskimo have for snow"

http://asianhistory.tumblr.com/post/8709...-relations

http://www.stthomasu.ca/~parkhill/cj01/irepam.htm

"The tradition of male on male love was greatly encouraged within the samurai class. It was considered useful to boys in teaching them virtue, honesty and the appreciation of beauty. While at the same time the love of women was often devalued for its so called 'feminising' effect."

so Mishima and most of the Tokugawa period samurai wouldn't have joined Roosh Forum for sure

Even if those men were gay, Samurai's weren't pushing for ridiculous things like gay marriage.

Post: #17

There's a certain brand of macho homosexual culture that you don't see much of in the media.

You're not going to see it on Bravo or Modern Family.

When you think back to the Greeks, their homosexuality (or pederasty) went right alongside a hyper-masculine culture which relegated women to a very low position indeed. One of the reasons why Greek philosophers talked about taking a "beloved", an adolescent boy as a subordinate sexual partner, was because they so dismissed women that they did not even think romantic attachments with them were worthy of men. Romance was instead between an older man, the lover, and a teenage boy, the beloved.

If you're a macho gay man, unlike a flaming homo, you really have no use for women. It's a similar situation to what you see more commonly among lesbians and their dismissal of men. Hence, you can afford to take a really extreme position on the role that women can play in society. You can dismiss heterosexual couples as "breeders", which really isn't so distant from Mishima's statement here that women are only good for having children.

Post: #18

It's ok callaghan you can come out of the closet now. We won't judge you I swear.

But just because your gay doesn't mean everyone else has to be. So cool it with the history revisionism.

Post: #19

(09-29-2013 01:40 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  One of Japan's greatest authors wrote this in his novel Forbidden Colors:

Women can bring nothing into this world but children. Men can father all kinds of things besides children. Creation, reproduction, and propagation are all male capabilities.

Woman's jealousy is simply jealousy of creativity. A woman who bears a son and brings him up tastes the honeyed joy of revenge against creativity. When she stands in the way of creation she feels she has something to live for. The craving for luxury and spending is a destructive craving.


Red Pill has been around for a while.

Actually, women can be creative and do a lot of that shit.

The real question is: should they?

What does it mean to find happiness in life as a woman?

Post: #20

In the past men used to be a lot more intimate with each other. It wasn't uncommon for heterosexual guys to share beds or to write flowery letters to their friends expressing their dedication and love for them. When historians or amateur readers look at letters and other writings composed by such men in the past they come to the conclusion that these guys must have been gay because they are viewing these works from modern perspectives.

More information here:
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/07/29...affection/

Post: #21

(10-14-2013 05:30 PM)Wutang Wrote:  In the past men used to be a lot more intimate with each other. It wasn't uncommon for heterosexual guys to share beds or to write flowery letters to their friends expressing their dedication and love for them. When historians or amateur readers look at letters and other writings composed by such men in the past they come to the conclusion that these guys must have been gay because they are viewing these works from modern perspectives.

More information here:
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/07/29...affection/

And I propose that this change is at least partly due to the neutering of many traditional male qualities (such as provider) by the state and the elevation of male qualities (not just qualities, but also their external displays) like dominance and power by females. Nowadays no man would dare do one of these historical things out of fear of being seen as a pussy (worse than gay), and thus unattractive to women.



Gay? I don't think so.

Post: #22

AoM had another article that also shined more insight on this subject:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/08/24...iendships/

"In addition to using affectionate language with each other, men during the 19th century weren’t afraid to be physically affectionate. Many men would give no thought to draping their arms around their bud or even holding hands. And while it is quite foreign to our modern sensibilities, it was even common during this era for men to share a bed to save money. For example, The Great Emancipator, Abraham Lincoln, shared a bed with a fellow named Joshua Speed for a number of years. Some scholars have concluded that this means Lincoln was gay. That’s where we get the term “Log Cabin Republican.” However most scholars conclude that there was no nookie going on between Abe and Joshua; they simply enjoyed a close and comfortable man friendship."

Post: #23

I'm glad Yukio Mishima is getting some play on RVF. This guy was one intense dude...no nonsense. Wrote some absolutely beautiful things, but had a dark side, like all great writers. Check out his bio. He took a Japanese general hostage and then eventually committed seppuku.

Post: #24

When I was in Russia in 1993, I was staying with a family and one TV there was an old BW movie. Two macho guys were sitting there at a table drinking. They were having an animated conversation and all of a sudden they just leaned in and planted a mouth-to-mouth kiss on each other. I was shocked. This was obviously a brotherhood, not a gay thing. I think it's cool, it's natural for mammals of all species to be affectionate with each other-- but not with this crowd-- adding "no homo" to every admiring remark lol.

Post: #25

Runaway Horses: Great study of the suicide terrorist mindset
Thirst for Love: Study of the female mindset and the conflict over what is Alpha in their minds
The Sound of Waves: Beta bullshit he wrote to make money and fund his own private army
Sun And Steel: His personal philosophy
On Hagakure: Hardcore
The Temple of the Golden Pavilion: About beauty. Read it and remember what Kashiwagi says about beauty the next time you're rating a woman's looks
Wish they would translate Kyoko's House but it will never happen