Post: #1

Hey guys, no troll here. I'm genuinely curious why there's a culture of slut shaming in much of the manosphere and what's behind it. Because I honestly don't get it.

Fat shaming, I get. Maybe it's not the most elegant way to bring about social change but the idea of a bunch of fat chicks running around and proud of it is gross to any guy who's honest with himself and has a pair.

Back to the slut thing.

From an evolutionary perspective, I can see why you wouldn't want your current woman to be with other dudes, since that reduces that chance that your swimmers will fertilize the egg and pass on your genes.

On the other hand, and my grasp on this topic is amateur, YOUR genes as such aren't really relevant, are they? Isn't that why a woman seeks out many mates while she's ovulating? To get several sources of sperm, who then literally duke it out with each other for the chance to fertilize? (source: Sperm Wars)

So my understanding is that it's to the overall benefit of the human race that a woman fucks a lot of guys because that means the most robust genes get passed on.

The main argument I hear in the affirmative for slut shaming is that when a woman sleeps around, it reduces her value as a long term prospect.

I don't understand that position because:

1) if she has a lot of practice having sex, she'll know what the fuck she's doing.

And

2) what percentage of guys actually want exclusive LTRs? And if they do, then #1 would apply doubly!

I'm also totally opposed to the you go girl crap that exhorts women to do anything they want without any repercussions. But then again, I meet some very promiscuous girls here in Thailand but other than a big sexual appetite, they generally don't let themselves behave as monstrously as Western girls, so I don't think it's reasonable to conflate sluttiness with anything-goes-ism.

I'd like to wrap my head around this topic better so please share your thoughts.

Post: #2

Post: #3

Several different points:

Slut shaming because she's a slut for everyone but you, is the song of the bitter beta and chaste women.

It also isn't as common as the feminists want you to believe. Guys want easy sex. Most guys are fucking pussy that dream of the girl approaching and leading them towards sex. When guys start slut shaming, I think it's often after they have fallen for a girl and see her go for the asshole that's just gonna fuck and chuck.

Girls are the slut shamers, because the sluts ruin their power position by giving it away for free.

The slut shaming in the manosphere is interesting though. It's the double-think of guys on a Sexual Revolution 2.0 Forum that somehow want to be a part of the conservative side that despises them, because patriarchs were alpha. See: the religious threads.

Not dating sluts, is just having standards.

Sluts aren't better in bed. Being with ten guys for one time is not going to teach them something. It's just gonna make sure they will compare their current guy more and find flaws. A girl being with one guy for three years will have more experience and will have discovered a lot more dimensions in depth.

The past is a good predictor of the future. If you don't want her to cheat, don't pick a girl that sees sex as no big deal, or that uses sex as a tool (to manipulate, to fill a void). Chaste girls will value sex more, they see it as something special.

It's status lowering to be the man that wifes up the town bike. And for a reason. Everyone used her for free, and you pay a hefty amount for the leftovers.

Girls love discriminating men: They want the possessive man that carefully selects and protects his property.

***

Another thing about evolution:

Quote:So my understanding is that it's to the overall benefit of the human race that a woman fucks a lot of guys because that means the most robust genes get passed on.

Group selection is not a thing. Evolution doesn't work in terms of what is better for the species. If many guys fuck one woman, it's only beneficial for the guy who impregnates her (and the woman). When every individual strives for their own success, the species will often benefit as a whole by extension.

If you care more about the species than yourself, you should let your girl get fucked by other men. Just give me a call.

Post: #4

If a woman sleeps with so many men, it means she is a bad judge of character of what she wants in males and does not care of the consequences of her actions. Possibly due to some underline issues. Avoiding sluts is a good way of finding a woman who is not crazy. Then again, if you want lays, then sluts are not a bad thing.

Post: #5

I think this has been covered many times before, but can't bother to dig up the links, so:

A) Allowing and encouraging sluthood results in extreme Alpha/Beta divide as far as sexual resources (women) go. Currently, 25% of men get 75% of sex, which is extremely high, close to prehistoric era when (by some estimates) less than 40% of men ever reproduced.

B) When sex (and reliable progeny) is impossibly hard or dangerous to come by for most men, then most men will turn to extremes: being herbivores, porn, masturbation, suicide on one end, or violent (rape) and murderous (killing the Alpha) behaviour on the other.

C) Genetics don't feed the bulldog. Improving genes is a valid point, but good-looking doesn't mean shit as far as the human race goes. Good genes might improve strength by 10% or reduce susceptibility to some illnesses, but they won't build buildings, grow food, invent and run technology and do all other sorts of useful stuff needed for living beyond a caveman level. Besides, epigenetics and environmental pressures have a huge influence, as big as simple genetic mixing.

D) Thus, there is no sustainable civilization with such a huge sexual divide.

E) In lieu of above, most men have an understanding that it's generally better for them to have one stable wife who was a virgin and won't dump and rob them as soon as she feels unhaaaappy, than engage in a zero-sum game for a chance to have two. While, given endless resources and power, most men would prefer a harem, most men also have a sense of reality and will settle for just one woman if it means significantly reducing the risk of not reproducing at all because they were killed / impoverished / outgamed by Alphas.

F) Humans are not naturally monogamous, but they are very capable of being adaptively monogamous, as has been the case for the last 5-10 000 years.

Conclusion: absence of slut shaming is devastating to civilization.

Now, you as an aspiring red-pill individual might go about this information in a number of ways.

1) You might go the MRA route and try to peacefully change the system before it's too late.
2) You might go MGTOW, decide that it's not worth it and just wait until the society collapses.
3) You might go the full player route and rack up bangs. In the latter case, encouraging sluts might be helpful to you to rack up more bangs, but I think it's a very nihilistic point of view. I couldn't do that in good faith, no matter how many more additional bangs it might bring me. It seems to me that most posters here belong to group #3.
However, while they are non-judgemental on the surface (i.e. don't shame sluts they come into contact with), they also have extremely high criteria and thus end up punishing the sluts anyway - simply by not offering any commitment to them. Most have also adopted some mixture of MRA and MGTOW beliefs on action/lack of action, with a few extremes here and there, and do not hesitate to shame sluts in all sorts of occasions and refuse to help them with the consequences of their awful choices.

I'm of a mind all of us can rack up notches, have fun and enjoy the decline no matter our views on whether the personal benefit of encouraging sluts is worth the cost to civilization. I'm personally all for slut shaming, but I understand that it might not be everyone's cup of tea. And even if everyone did it, it might already be too late. From that point of view, all of these negative changes might be the product of exactly the lack of slut shaming, with toxic you-go-girlism being just the cream on top of our decaying cake of a society.

Post: #6

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I think this has been covered many times before, but can't bother to dig up the links, so:

A) Allowing and encouraging sluthood results in extreme Alpha/Beta divide as far as sexual resources (women) go. Currently, 25% of men get 75% of sex, which is extremely high, close to prehistoric era when (by some estimates) less than 40% of men ever reproduced.

B) When sex (and reliable progeny) is impossibly hard or dangerous to come by for most men, then most men will turn to extremes: being herbivores, porn, masturbation, suicide on one end, or violent (rape) and murderous (killing the Alpha) behaviour on the other.

C) Genetics don't feed the bulldog. Improving genes is a valid point, but good-looking doesn't mean shit as far as the human race goes. Good genes might improve strength by 10% or reduce susceptibility to some illnesses, but they won't build buildings, grow food, invent and run technology and do all other sorts of useful stuff needed for living beyond a caveman level. Besides, epigenetics and environmental pressures have a huge influence, as big as simple genetic mixing.

D) Thus, there is no sustainable civilization with such a huge sexual divide.

E) In lieu of above, most men have an understanding that it's generally better for them to have one stable wife who was a virgin and won't dump and rob them as soon as she feels unhaaaappy, than engage in a zero-sum game for a chance to have two. While, given endless resources and power, most men would prefer a harem, most men also have a sense of reality and will settle for just one woman if it means significantly reducing the risk of not reproducing at all because they were killed / impoverished / outgamed by Alphas.

F) Humans are not naturally monogamous, but they are very capable of being adaptively monogamous, as has been the case for the last 5-10 000 years.

Conclusion: absence of slut shaming is devastating to civilization.

Now, you as an aspiring red-pill individual might go about this information in a number of ways.

1) You might go the MRA route and try to peacefully change the system before it's too late.
2) You might go MGTOW, decide that it's not worth it and just wait until the society collapses.
3) You might go the full player route and rack up bangs. In the latter case, encouraging sluts might be helpful to you to rack up more bangs, but I think it's a very nihilistic point of view. I couldn't do that in good faith, no matter how many more additional bangs it might bring me. It seems to me that most posters here belong to group #3.
However, while they are non-judgemental on the surface (i.e. don't shame sluts they come into contact with), they also have extremely high criteria and thus end up punishing the sluts anyway - simply by not offering any commitment to them. Most have also adopted some mixture of MRA and MGTOW beliefs on action/lack of action, with a few extremes here and there, and do not hesitate to shame sluts in all sorts of occasions and refuse to help them with the consequences of their awful choices.

I'm of a mind all of us can rack up notches, have fun and enjoy the decline no matter our views on whether the personal benefit of encouraging sluts is worth the cost to civilization. I'm personally all for slut shaming, but I understand that it might not be everyone's cup of tea. And even if everyone did it, it might already be too late.

I support this statement.

A lot of bad things are said about Beta's here. I consider myself to be physically beta ie: not a six foot plus professional athlete.

But Betas run all of the most important mechanisms of society.
Oil worker
Coal miners
Farmers
Engineers
Carpenters
Plumbers
Electricians
Etc...

All these guys including me would be considered the betas by women. We don't have political power, we aren't top tier athletes, we aren't rich.

Some of us have decided here not to fall into the beta stereo type for reasons to do with self preservation (avoiding divorce) and fun (getting laid).

When only the top tier are allowed consistent access to female attention you start to get a lot of male social problems. Excessive drinking, drug addiction, crime, lack of ambition. Marriage was designed to give men a purpose to produce in excess of what the needed for themselves. Now that marriage is declining men are becoming apathetic.

Why work 90 hours a week when i can survive off of 40 hours a week.

Do I really need to buy another bmw? the last one didn't get me laid. Fuck it I'll buy a Honda and spend the difference in Thailand. Or buy nothing at all and live in Eastern Europe for two years.

This type of stuff is bad for the country of origin. This is what is happening in the west.

If you fuck with the beta to much then things turn to shit and fast.

Take it for what it's worth but if guys consider it easier to fly half way around the world to date then something is wrong. I shouldn't have to go to Eastern Europe to look for a discount, the women in the United States should make sure of that but alas here we are.

Post: #7

The whole premise of your question is flawed, slut shaming isn't now, nor has it ever really been, a problem. The issue is that people don't want men having any preference or selection when it comes to mating, it all resides around removing female responsibility again. When you see a girl getting pounded out by ten dudes, you probably don't want to be dude number eleven. Maybe it's biology, maybe it's socialised, perhaps it's even a matter of personal taste. The reason isn't important, the reality is that some(the majority I suppose) men don't desire women of low social and sexual value, the idea that slut shaming is an issue is an attempt to pervert men's tastes into something evil.

Instead of accepting that men have a set of desires and encouraging women who want men to fit them, instead it's wrong to not want a Girl who's been with a thousand dudes. You're engaging in slut shaming by refusing to make out with a girl who sucked off ten dudes in the club, how dare you judge her. 'you look like a slut' as in 'you're dressed in a way that suggests you're sexually easy and this makes me want you less' is suddenly a terrible affront to the politica correct.

You notice that girls often mock men then don't desire with small penis comments, check out the fat shaming week for examples. In an attempt to be little men they use an insult that suggests they aren't sexually attracted to the man, yet no-one is calling girls out for small dick shaming, it's seen as entirely natural for some girls to have a preference for larger penises. However when men express a natural preference against women who are sluts suddenly it's an attempt to control women. You're buying into a premise that doesn't exist. Some men love sluts, some men are cuckolds and love studding out their wife, some girls love small cocks, however when any man expresses a preference that gives him strength, that shows he has control when it comes to romance suddenly it's an issue.

When guys want girls to be sluttier 'don't be such a prude, just fuck the football team, it's alright no-one cares it's all fun and everyone is doing it' it's bad 'stop trying to pressure women to have sex that aren't ready(stop showing a preference and rejecting girls who aren't sluts!). When guys want girls to be less slutty 'nah, I'm not interested, you fucked the whole football team' it's an issue too. The same people who complain about slut shaming also complain about pressuring virgins. It's bullshit man, it's not about sluts being evil or not, it's about stopping men having any control in romance.

To expand further since you made the comparison to fat shaming. While the majority of men move in one direction, preferring skinny girls, this is only an issue when you express the preference. 'fat chicks are disgusting, you gotta lose some weigh' -fatshaming, 'skinny chicks are disgusting, you gotta put weight on'-skinny shaming'(yep, it exists, some of this girls tired of skinny shaming are tweeting with us for #fatshamingweek). It's not about fat people or skinny people being evil, although there is plenty of evidence that rationally being fat sucks for health and suchlike, it's all about preventing men from having any self control and preference.

Post: #8

It's a primal fear.

One of the many primal fears that undergirds most of the manosphere philosophy.

WIA

Post: #9

(10-13-2013 11:55 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  It's a primal fear.

One of the many primal fears that undergirds most of the manosphere philosophy.

WIA

I can't tell you how many times I've heard women say that men are insecure. I think it's a fine line between being insecure and being grossed out.

I had this conversation with my friend regarding his wife. He said her number 10 guys before they got married. So I tell him ...yeah that's what she told you but you'll never really know because there's no way to prove it. His face went blank because he knew I was right.

So here we have the dilemma. There's no way to know if a woman has been with 1 guy or 1 million guys. You can only tell if she's a virgin or not. And that would require an examination from a doctor to confirm.

So here lies the problem we all have. Any woman that is known to not be a virgin is automatically classified as a slut in our minds and we are deemed as insecure by women.

So what do we do?

1. We can become stone cold players and smash away with reckless abandon.
2. We can be winy little pussies and jerk off to porn for the rest of our lives.
3. We can suck it up and give in to women and let them run the relationship.
3. Or we can become Muslims and get a 9 year old child bride that's a guaranteed virgin.

Post: #10

I never shame sluts. I encourage girls to be sluts. I like sluts.

I think God designed girls to be "sluts".

The word "slut" is just a man made creation probably rooted in religious extremism.

Don't hate. Encourage sluttiness!

Post: #11

I believe that Gio perfectly illustrated the nihilist point of view I was talking about: he likes sluts (as do all men), but he likes them so much that he has no problem speeding everyone else towards these dire consequences if it means he can get just a few more.

Not hating, of course, it's everyone's right to choose his own way of swimming in this current pool of chaos.

Post: #12

(10-13-2013 01:14 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I believe that Gio perfectly illustrated the nihilist point of view I was talking about:

Nihilist point of view???

I didn't read your post but I will.

I don't think sex is pointless or nihilist. I think sex is a spiritual act.

Without sex, mankind would perish.

Looking forward to reading your post after lunch.

"Dire Consequences" -- This sounds fascinating.

Post: #13

Personally I think its more the culture of sluttiness and how women start acting once they start fucking more dudes. A girl who frequently goes out looking for dick is going to start adopting traits that a good player has. This is not attractive to men.

Another thing is that from experience most girls who fuck indiscriminately do just so. The best players fuck women on their own terms, because they enjoy the pleasures and company of a beautiful women. More often than not sluts fuck tons of guys because they have daddy issues, insecurities, are doing it to prove something, doing it to experiment etc.

As for the monogamy issue: fuck that shit, monogamy isn't natural. Its good to have a main girl, but eventually shes going to feel that something is lacking and go seek that out in the form of a new man.

Judging girls for their life choices is some beta shit. You can either try and change them or work with the type of girl they are. Theres always another one out there.

Post: #14

(10-13-2013 01:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 01:14 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I believe that Gio perfectly illustrated the nihilist point of view I was talking about:

Nihilist point of view???

I didn't read your post but I will.

I don't think sex is pointless or nihilist. I think sex is a spiritual act.

Without sex, mankind would perish.

Looking forward to reading your post after lunch.

"Dire Consequences" -- This sounds fascinating.

I agree that sex is a spiritual act, but there is an important note: you're talking about survival of the mankind. I'm talking about survival of the civilization.

Absolutely do read my post. Its point could be summed up as "Giovonny has a good point, but if everyone thought like Giovonny we we would still be living in caves". Your ethos is great - and personally I find it very enjoyable! However, it's only possible because generations before you did not share it. It's a classic example of a tragedy of the commons.

Again, I mean no insult to you - yours is also a valid opinion.

Post: #15

Sex is not a spiritual act I think dirty thoughts when I'm fucking not "Spritual" thoughts. It's more along the lines of robbing a bank and not getting caught than it is about singing the praises of Jesus.

Post: #16

sigh...[edit]

Post: #17

(10-13-2013 02:01 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Sex is not a spiritual act I think dirty thoughts when I'm fucking not "Spritual" thoughts. It's more along the lines of robbing a bank and not getting caught than it is about singing the praises of Jesus.

I think sex can be a "spiritual act", but 99% of the time it isn't, it's lust not love. How can sex be a spiritual act when you're banging out some bar skank that you just met an hour prior, there is nothing spiritual about that in my mind.

For it to be more spiritual act I think there needs to be a deep emotional connection involved, you have to be in "love" with the person. Collectively RVF guys are more concerned with getting notches, fast/easy sex, and variety, not developing a deeply emotional connection, like you might with a long term relationship.

I like Gio's posts, but in my mind he seems kind of contradictory by saying he loves sluts, encourages girls to be sluts, but then experiencing sex as a "spiritual act", maybe I'm being square, but something doesn't add up to me.

How spiritual is it if she's just a fuck buddy, and fucking other dudes concurrently while she's fucking you? I don't think there is anything spiritual about me fucking her in the ass, her licking my balls, and swallowing my nut.

Then again, I guess it all comes down to perspective, and how you "frame things". I'd be curious how Gio frames casual sex with girls that he's not deeply involved with, as "spiritual".

Post: #18

Look at America - the land of sluts. Do you need another reason for slut shaming?
Here's one more: commiting to a slut is like paying for a used 15-year old slow Prius with the same amount of money you could've used to buy a new Audi A3 with the best equipment and engine.

Post: #19

Statsi had a great viewpoint that I think has been largely ignored.

He's right, there's no problem with dislike sluts or fat women

I think men don't like sluts because they claim ownership over women, a slut is "damaged property" A slut is a daughter you cant marry off. In fact in room a person who fucks your daughter before marriage had to either her or pay a fine to the father

I think disliking sluts is rooted in biology(not wanting to father someone else's child). What happenes when an alpha silverback sees one of his harem girls fucking someone else? He gets angry

I disagree with OP's argument 1. training a girl is very enjoyable and doesn't take that much effort

Also from a practical point of view slutty women are more likely to have STDs, less likely to form stable relationships, and more likely to cheat.(the last two are verified with non biased scientific surveys). After about 3 partners the likelihood of a woman cheating on you skyrockets. STD wise the total number of partners you get into contact with also increases logrothmically, do the math.

Post: #20

(10-13-2013 01:02 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I never shame sluts. I encourage girls to be sluts. I like sluts.

I think God designed girls to be "sluts".

The word "slut" is just a man made creation probably rooted in religious extremism.

Don't hate. Encourage sluttiness!

Do you ever intend to have children one day?

Wald

Post: #21

(10-13-2013 04:08 PM)mental Wrote:  Look at America - the land of sluts. Do you need another reason for slut shaming?
Here's one more: commiting to a slut is like paying for a used 15-year old slow Prius with the same amount of money you could've used to buy a new Audi A3 with the best equipment and engine.

I don't see a single reason to commit to any girl, slut or not.

It's like paying for a single ride in a cab the amount of money you can buy a nice car of your favorite model with bucket load of gas.

The size the bucket is a direct result of how good of a player are you.

Post: #22

I'm probably wrong. But..

I will respectfully disagree on a few points:

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  A) Allowing and encouraging sluthood results in extreme Alpha/Beta divide as far as sexual resources (women) go.

How would you know this? What is this theory based on?

There is already a huge divide between alpha and beta.

I think more sluts would make it easier for betas to get laid.

More betas getting laid would REDUCE the alpha/beta divide.

But.. It's hard to say exactly what would happen. We are both just speculating. Right?

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  [b]B) When sex (and reliable progeny) is impossibly hard or dangerous to come by for most men, then most men will turn to extremes: being herbivores, porn, masturbation, suicide on one end, or violent (rape) and murderous (killing the Alpha) behaviour on the other.

I respectfully disagree again.

I think if more betas are getting laid -- Murder, rape, suicide, shootings, porn -- will GO DOWN.

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  C) Genetics don't feed the bulldog.

I think more sluts = more betas having sex = improved creativity/productivity for betas

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  D) Thus, there is no sustainable civilization with such a huge sexual divide.

Again, I'm not sure what evidence, data, examples, etc., that this is based on?

I think we are just having a big "thought experiment" or "thought debate".

Its impossible to predict what would happen if women got 10-20% more slutty.

It is interesting to think about sometimes..

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  E) In lieu of above, most men have an understanding that it's generally better for them to have one stable wife

Isn't this a trend that is rapidly changing?

Nowadays, men are not so eager to find one stable wife.

They want to play the field for as long as possible. They want sexual options and variety.

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  F) Humans are not naturally monogamous, but they are very capable of being adaptively monogamous

I agree.

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Conclusion: absence of slut shaming is devastating to civilization.

What civilizations have been devastated due to a lack of slut shaming?

This is just how you see it in your imagination right?

Or is this based on some other research?

(10-13-2013 10:09 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Now, you as an aspiring red-pill individual might go about this information in a number of ways.

Right now, I am just conducting my thought experiment.

I am open to anything.

Post: #23

I couldn't care less if a girl is slutty or not. A slut expecting me to treat them the same as I would a virgin, on the other hand...

Post: #24

(10-13-2013 01:47 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  you're talking about survival of the mankind. I'm talking about survival of the civilization.

"Civilization" is a very subjective term. It can mean many different things.

I think our current "civilization" is already Orwellian and many times insane. I don't feel a strong need to preserve it. I think it might do mankind some good to become less "civilized" and return to a more primal way of living.

"Civilizations" come and go. I would like to like in a civilization where sex was not such a labor intensive chore!

The collapse of civilization is not a worry of mine.

(10-13-2013 01:47 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  "Giovonny has a good point, but if everyone thought like Giovonny we we would still be living in caves".

Living in caves with a harem of young girls!

I think "Slut Encouraging" already happens on a mass scale. Young girls are already brainwashed with images of sex 24/7 in the western world. They often define themselves based on sexual value and sex appeal.

At this point, I say -- "Let the sluts be sluts!"

The world is hard enough. Men should at least be able to get laid!

(10-13-2013 01:47 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  It's a classic example of a tragedy of the commons.

Fascinating.

My response is..

If everyone thought like me, I would probably change my thinking.

I think the way I do because I am aware that few people agree with me.

If everyone all of the sudden agreed with me, I would have to rethink the situation.

(10-13-2013 01:47 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Again, I mean no insult to you

No insult taken.

Pleasure debating with you.

(10-13-2013 03:51 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  I'd be curious how Gio frames casual sex with girls that he's not deeply involved with, as "spiritual".

Just the fact that I woke up in the morning means that I am having a spiritual experience. At least, thats how I feel. Life is precious and filled with so much potential, I think most of us take it for granted.

I have been dedicating myself to self improvement and making myself into a man that would attract an 18/19yo girl.

I have made this my "spiritual journey", investing all of my being into it.

When it happens I feel that I have reached my potential. A beautiful angel was sent to communicate with me.

She confirmed my energy transformation from potential to physical experience. She made my thoughts and visions a reality.

It is a very deep experience that causes me to grow and evolve and learn more about myself.

Game is one of my spiritual practices.

(10-13-2013 04:21 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  Do you ever intend to have children one day?

I don't know..??

For the sake of this discussion, I will say "yes"

Post: #25

I think for Gio, he finds it spiritual because he's created his own self purpose in life, and when that's fulfilled he feels self actualized

working hard towards something and fulfilling that gives you a spiritual satisification