Post: #1

I watched something interesting this weekend. I watched as women approached and picked up two different friends of mine. American women, as they become more like men are also becoming the instigators of relationships. They are approaching with a high level of confidence and competence. I was impressed. But here is the most interesting part. They are NOT picking men based on status or money. They are picking men based on looks! Just like men, women today, are picking men based on how good they look - at least to have fun with that night or for a short time. This will completely change the relationship dynamic between men and women.

These guys didn't need to have any Game. They were chosen simply because they were good looking or fit a stereotype. It's like the reverse of being an attractive woman - she doesn't need to have a great personality or know more than one language. As this increases the whole concept of what is Game will need to change. Also when a woman selects you the probability that she will flake becomes very low plus she will make it easy for you in every way. And I see this happening across all age groups, races, and demographics.

PS In one instance a group of women literally mobbed my friend. It was like he was a movie star. While I was completely ignored. Now, just to compete I had to pull out some serious dance game but compared to him, I am always working much harder for everything. So does looks matter? You bet your ass it does - in America today. As a lawyer once told me, I can't take my cars and houses into a bar. Chances are today, even if he could, it wouldn't matter that much...

Post: #2

See it all the time. Girl at the bar will make a comment at a guy who's posting up, ordering a drink. Compliment his hat or clothes or whatever. Give off strong body language that they're interested. But maybe you're talking about something more extreme than this, the girl really picking up the guy - that can happen too. The girl can straight up ask if the guy's going to take her home. That's happened to me, and I'm not great looking. I imagine for good looking guys it must happen pretty regularly if they go out, but probably not usually with the most attractive girls.

These guys need to have some basic level of social skills, sense of humor, and charm, but that's about it. It's "don't fuck up" game - in other words, not really much game at all. It'd be laughable if they tried to use old-school game tactics - that'd actually be a quick way of losing the girl. Just shoot the breeze, escalate, do a couple shots together and bounce.

Girls are becoming like men, isn't that the theme on here?

Post: #3

This has always happened.

You still need to be able to Close.

Post: #4

Future thread title on RVF:
Best makeup to pick up girls?

Post: #5

Yup. I've written about a certain friend of mine on the forum multiple times, the guy doesn't need game at all, women throw themselves at him. It's frustrating winging with him out at the bars, because like Nomad describes, women outright approach him and game him, while I put in the work to approach and spit game, but often feel invisible when they are more interested in my friend. The worst is when I outright approach a chick, and she ignored me, only to ask about "my friend", maybe I will sound like a hater, but I never facilitate hook ups for him in that situation, admittedly it irks me, but I tell them, "if you are really that into him, approach him yourself, just like the way I approached you."

My bro is 6 ft 5 in., naturally built, has green eyes, and what I'd consider "male model looks." The funny thing is he thinks he has game, and when we are chilling with the bros or other random dudes, and he wants to dispel game advise, it's just hilarious. He straight up says, "don't approach women, that just makes you looks desperate", he says just "chill at the end of the bar with your drink in hand, and over the night women will slowly approach you." What he fails to understand is that it only happens to 5-10% of guys like him, the other 90% of us need to put in work and spit game.

I've been with him when a chick just came up to him outright, introduced herself and started flirting with him, he was dating a chick at the time and wasn't interested, but when the interaction ended and she walked away, my buddy was beaming, he went off about "now that's what I call game guys, you see how into me she was?" While I just shook my head and got into it with him about how she was attracted to him on his looks, and it had nothing to do with game. He always tells me my game sucks, and I'll admit I'm not the best, but I know I have better game then my friend, he has no real game, just a bit of confidence, which comes along with good looks and the success the looks will bring you. If I had my friends looks/heights, I can guarantee that I'd crush way more ass than my friend.

Basically if you fit the right ideal of what women want you will get laid no problem with very little effort. If you are between 6 ft 2 to 6 ft. 6 in., have a good strong build, and have well above average facial looks, women will be attracted to you. The holy trinity, looks, height, and muscles. Most of us are only lucky enough to have one of the three characteristics, if you have all three, you should be unstoppable. I got a lot of shit for it, but I made a thread a while back called, "better to get game advice from less attractive men", I don't doubt that there are good looking guys out there with great game you can learn from, however most guys like that have automatic attraction, and can't put themselves in the shoes of a less attractive man.

Post: #6

"But here is the most interesting part. They are NOT picking men based on status or money. They are picking men based on looks! Just like men, women today, are picking men based on how good they look - at least to have fun with that night or for a short time. This will completely change the relationship dynamic between men and women."


This has occurred since time immemorial. The major differences today are, firstly,that there are few religious restrictions on going after a man for sex alone, and secondly, there are lots of government financial programs to assist with female emancipation such that they are less reliant on competent "beta" providers to survive. Of course, this tends to cause a plummet in birth rates for Europeans and will need to be openly countered by the government at some point.

Post: #7

I think that this may also depend on the city you're in and the male-to-female ratios at the bars. When I go back to eastern Canada, meeting women is so easy and yes often times they'll chat you up or present themselves in a way that only a complete moron could fuck it up. Last time I was in Halifax I was standing by the dance floor in a club and this girl basically walked really slow in front of me, all I said was "hey" and she stopped, ended up taking her home later. Contrast this to western Canada where all the dudes from back east move to for work and the bars are total sausage parties, its brutal. The most handsome men will likely always get hit on by women, whether they want it or not, its just the way it is, I also have a few buddies who just show up to the bar and its a complete cake walk.

Post: #8

OGNorcal how built is your friend, are we talking bodybuilder or just in good shape?

Post: #9

This is not happening in Europe. If it would it would make my life much easier.

Post: #10

Maybe I'm too old but this was typical cougar game back in my day. 40+ women throwing themselves as attractive men. This has now changed? The demographic using cougar game is younger now?

Post: #11

I hate to say it, but I've had this happen to me so many times i've lost count.

And they're not always aggressive either, they just look at me, come up and say hello.

More recently since i've started dressing better and doing this prince charming hair poof I've gotten a lot of girls approaching me at bars.

This past weekend, I was out and these two girls said to me, "Chuck Bass!"

For the less incline, Chuck Bass is a character on the show Gossip Girl. I put on the most obnoxious waspy slackjaw ever and threw some canned quote out for them. They loved it.

The point is, you need to dress and look good for girls to want to approach you.

Honestly, I kind of like this. I get to go around and not really put much effort into gaming women or getting laid. I just get to lay back and let them do all of the work. It's fun when the script is flipped. Making fun of girls and rejecting them outright for perceived "flaws" or some social bleh for whatever reason.

Suit game works well for this.

Post: #12

This has happened to me before, but I almost find it off-putting. I know it sounds stupid, but I feel as though a girl that is approaching guys is compensating for some shortfall that she has.
And OGNorCal, your friend is definitely higher than the top 5 or 10%. Top 10% is a guy who works out, is about 6ft and has average or slightly above average facial features.

Post: #13

(10-07-2013 03:00 PM)frenchie Wrote:  Suit game works well for this.

The single greatest thing a guy who is not in the 1% of looks can do for himself to improve his Game.

Undebatable.

Post: #14

So youre saying women like good-looking men?

Post: #15

This has always happened, but I agree it's becoming more common as women get more aggressive

I see it happening a lot and I get approached myself pretty often-sometimes they will turn to you and make a comment as you are ordering a drink, or grab your arm as you're walking by, wave at you, "toast" you with their drink, offer you a sample of their drink, yell" woo-hoo" at you and so on

Mostly it's 5s who do it, with some 4s and 6s, but I have been opened by some real hotties as well, though that's not nearly as common.

It's seldom a true slam dunk though, especially if you want a SNL . You need fuck-up avoidance game at the least; I've lost girls with bad game when I was having an off night and I've seen it happen plenty of times with other guys, the girls start off excited and attracted and you can see the attraction fade when she realizes the guy is a boring beta. But, the better looking the guy the worse game he can get away with. The best technique is "Game-Lite" -be confident and funny, but keep the cockiness and teasing at a moderate level. This is a good time to use the "qualifying" technique-she approached you after all so subtly make her prove why she is worthy of you. This is a better way to show value in this situation than cocky or asshole game.

Scotian is right too, ratio is a big factor here; the fewer guys per girl there are, the more assertive the girls have to be to get attention

Post: #16

(10-07-2013 02:45 PM)XYZ Wrote:  OGNorcal how built is your friend, are we talking bodybuilder or just in good shape?

My bro is certainly not a "bodybuilder" in fact he doesn't even work out, he's just one of these people blessed with good genetics. A lot of guys who are into working out try to downplay genetics or sometimes even call it a "myth", but there are people who are just naturally large, and strong, my friend is one of them. If he got into weightlifting he'd be such a beast it's not even funny. Dude is probably about 240 pounds, he isn't really cut and doesn't have loads of muscle definition, but he isn't chubby either. That said he does have big arms, chest, shoulders, etc. Even though he doesn't work out, he is naturally strong, I've seen him lift heavy bags full of soil like it was nothing. I'm 5 ft 11 in 185 lbs, been going hard at the gym doing the right lifts for about 2 years now, when we stand side by side we look about equally built, although I'm sure I have better definition than him.

That said, like guys are saying on here, a lot of it does have to do with ratios, when there are way more guys than girls, the girls can naturally be selective. Also usually it is older women (cougars) that are the most aggressive, but it's also regular younger girls that are doing it too now.

My buddy gets approached from women all across the board, ranging from 5's who have no business approaching him, to solid 8's, like the chick who he is currently dating that approached him, invited him back to her place, spread her legs that same night.

A lot of it is that hot women want to fuck hot guys, that is common sense, but when some better looking guys may be more aloof and not put in a high amount of effort to approach, the chicks may take the initiative. Maybe she's a strong 8 and most of the guys that have been stepping to her are 7's in her book, she sees a tall, buff, handsome guy that she rates a 9, instead of engaging the less attractive men, she beelines it to the handsome guy, saying hello to him with seductive eyes, giving him the green light to hit on her.

That said, like it has been mentioned here, most guys will need "fuck up avoidance game", but any good looking guy who isn't a complete fucktard with really bad anxiety, psychological issues, or no social skills, will be able to coast by with no problem. Success breeds competance, and confidence. Once a good looking guy knows his stock and has bed a handful of women, he will become more confident and know how to manuever in those situations.

I did know one tall good looking guy who had no game, while he did get laid, still more than most guys, he also fucked it up a lot too. A lot of it was he lacked the awareness of which women were into him, and he also had anxiety, and didn't pull the trigger and escalate when he need to. He also had lower self confidence than he should have, and was too emotional, and would get easily upset by stuff that women would do, he did not have a "thick enough skin" so to speak.

Post: #17

When I say approach I mean approach: girls just walking up and talking to them, asking them to dance, even buying them shots! One group of women was literally jumping on this one guy. He literally had to start pushing them away. The most I ever get from girls is a strong look and even then I still get a lot of shit to deal with. Just as a test I replaced his photo on a profile in Okcupid once and got the same reaction: women was all over that profile. Just handing out their phone number immediately and saying lets meet.

I don't see this happening in Europe and South America.

I understand the appeal of an attractive person but what I am seeing is that women are hitting a new level of aggression going after these guys in the US. On a positive note for the less attractive guys out there, once we start interacting with the girls and they get over that initial attraction I can hold my own and in many cases do just as well or better. Like I said, it just takes more work on all levels.

Also it's not the hottest women that are doing this. In most cases the women are about plus or minus a point from these guys in attractiveness. I don't see really attractive women or ugly women doing it.

Post: #18

(10-07-2013 12:57 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  This has always happened.

+11111111111111111111!

This has been happening since the beginning of time, only most guys can't see when a woman is "Choosing" them. More and More guys are getting more and more clueless about this, so more women are taking the initiative.

Post: #19

(10-07-2013 06:00 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Also it's not the hottest women that are doing this. In most cases the women are about plus or minus a point from these guys in attractiveness. I don't see really attractive women or ugly women doing it.

I figured those girls weren't all that attractive. Good looking girls have too many options in the US. They are basically treated like celebrities. There's no need to approach randoms at a bar.

Post: #20

(10-07-2013 06:28 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 06:00 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Also it's not the hottest women that are doing this. In most cases the women are about plus or minus a point from these guys in attractiveness. I don't see really attractive women or ugly women doing it.

I figured those girls weren't all that attractive. Good looking girls have too many options in the US. They are basically treated like celebrities. There's no need to approach randoms at a bar.

Well, they are not bad either. In general these girls are in the 6 - 8 range.

Post: #21

I get approached a couple of times when I go out, but very rarely that it will be a girl worth banging. Most of the time it's some fat feminist chick, or tipsy chubby Irish tourist, or leathery cougar. No thanks I'm not that thirsty. Usually they open with a compliment on my hat, jacket, shirt or eyes. Cheap bitches never buy me anything though!

Post: #22

(10-07-2013 06:00 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  When I say approach I mean approach: girls just walking up and talking to them, asking them to dance, even buying them shots! One group of women was literally jumping on this one guy. He literally had to start pushing them away. The most I ever get from girls is a strong look and even then I still get a lot of shit to deal with. Just as a test I replaced his photo on a profile in Okcupid once and got the same reaction: women was all over that profile. Just handing out their phone number immediately and saying lets meet.

I don't see this happening in Europe and South America.

I understand the appeal of an attractive person but what I am seeing is that women are hitting a new level of aggression going after these guys in the US. On a positive note for the less attractive guys out there, once we start interacting with the girls and they get over that initial attraction I can hold my own and in many cases do just as well or better. Like I said, it just takes more work on all levels.

Also it's not the hottest women that are doing this. In most cases the women are about plus or minus a point from these guys in attractiveness. I don't see really attractive women or ugly women doing it.

I am pretty sure this does happen to white guys in Peru and to Roosh's Danish roommate in Brasil.

Post: #23

OGNorcal, we've all been there man. No point telling your mate he has no game, when he pulling though - makes you sound like sour grapes. Should be genuinely happy for him.

Hang around him more, the girls he rejects might bounce onto you - I've seen this a few times. Use him as a lighthouse for women. If he's a good friend, he won't care if you make a move.

Post: #24

(10-07-2013 04:05 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  I did know one tall good looking guy who had no game, while he did get laid, still more than most guys, he also fucked it up a lot too. A lot of it was he lacked the awareness of which women were into him, and he also had anxiety, and didn't pull the trigger and escalate when he need to. He also had lower self confidence than he should have, and was too emotional, and would get easily upset by stuff that women would do, he did not have a "thick enough skin" so to speak.

Sounds like good looks can be a double edged sword. When most men look at these guys, they only see one side - namely pretty boy getting approached and laid in the same night - a lot.

But when it comes to getting down to the nitty gritty in the trenches, these guys have little to no staying power. Without the experience or confidence, perhaps they cannot get what they want out of relationships and settle for what they are given.

If all one wants is to be a player - and one night stand it up to the grave - that's fine. But if one wants more or wants to improve - the good looks can be a handicap if mismanaged.

In the end, everything has pros and cons. Just not everyone can see either the pros or the cons.

Wald

Post: #25

Like the posters above stated this has always been happening. Nowadays I think girls are more direct, in the past they would just keep sending signals until the guy wised up and made a move. A lot of good looking guys get snatched up in relationships pretty quickly as well.

Not to derail this thread, but for the rest of us (the 90% of guys who rarely get approached) it's better to focus on what we can do that has us getting approached more. The two big things I've changed in the past few years was my clothing style and gaining muscle mass. We've mentioned it on this board a million times before, but still how many guys are doing it right? It's hard to keep consistency. Nearly every time I've seen girls become aggressive and straight up throw themselves at guys in bars, the guys have been muscular.

I got a style consultation with Tanner at masculine-style.com and the guy is legit. I've gotten complements on my clothing from men and women since I've used his services.

For a tall somewhat lanky guy such as myself, I'm muscular but if I don't wear tighter clothing no one will ever know. Not shirt sizes that are ridiculously too small, but I think even that is better than baggy clothes that show nothing. I had this girl make fun of me at a bar a few months back asking me if I shopped at baby gap because my shirt was tight, but that didn't stop me from banging her later that night and her complementing my chest.

Also vibe is huge, I refuse to be one of those guys who is muscular but seem unfriendly like they aren't having a good time. Friendly, social, and happy is the way I go.