Post: #1

There has been much discussed on dealing with mistakes/rejections. We all know that you have to harness the energy and make some lemonade. But sometimes you just feel like SHIT. It appears that nothing you do or say seems to make a difference.


Nothing revolutionary here, but thought I'd share my recent experiences.

A couple days ago, I was on a date with a girl I had met the other week (after turning down another to pursue this one). Everything went well, except she works full-time and was hard to pull her back to mine on a weeknight. I figured, no problem, ask her out again on a Fri/Sat. The following day, she sent a message along the lines of 'I've just recently started seeing another guy and I don't want to lead you on anymore. I have to end things here.'

This stung quite a bit, despite being rejected thousands of times before, sometimes it still catches you off-guard.

I was literally this close to staying at home, watching some porn, ordering some take-away chinese and having a couple beers by myself (my usual remedy). I compare this route to the drug user, who escapes reality for a short-term fix, only to feel like shit afterwards.

At the last minute (at 9pm), I decided fuck it - put on my gym shorts, there was still an hour left until the gym closes. I ended up smashing out one of my best sessions in a long while and went home to cook up some salmon with a bit of salad. Felt about 80% better just from doing that.

The following day I got up early (7am), worked on my online business, and went to nearest university to day-game. Ended up on insta-dating a cute 19yo. I'm now about to see an amazing DJ tonight And feel better than before.

I can guarantee if I had succumbed to my comfortable and passive coping strategies I would still feel horrible and not make the effort tonight.

I don't ever think we are immune from rejection. Whether it is getting fired from your job, crushed by a girl or diagnosed with an illness. You have to really fight those deep urges that enslave you into the comfort zone and will provide only temporary relief.

I see it ALL the time in the clinic as well. People who don't take responsibility for their injuries and rely on others to help them, recover MUCH slower than someone who adopts a more active approach. There is also evidence to suggest those with an external locus of control (passive coping strategies, relying on others to heal them) experience much more pain for a longer duration than the active copers (rely on themselves). The same applies to real-life.

bring on MOBY tonight!

Post: #2

(09-19-2013 03:34 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  A couple days ago, I was on a date with a girl I had met the other week (after turning down another to pursue this one). Everything went well, except she works full-time and was hard to pull her back to mine on a weeknight. I figured, no problem, ask her out again on a Fri/Sat.

When a chick is trying to get fucked, and she wants you to be the one to do it, what she has going on is irrelevant. Chicks will ignore texts and phone calls from Mom and BFF, skip doctor appointments, and even make up bullshit excuses to get out of work if it means getting some sex, so the fact that it was a weeknight is completely irrelevant. The truth is, and I'll go into on the next point...

(09-19-2013 03:34 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  The following day, she sent a message along the lines of 'I've just recently started seeing another guy and I don't want to lead you on anymore. I have to end things here.'

This girl had no intentions of ever fucking you. Let me translate what she said:

"I've recently started fucking another guy, and while I could continue to use you for date nights, I would rather not waste my time spending it with a guy that I don't like very much and that I have no plans to fuck, so take care."

Recently to a woman is not the same as recently to a man. For all you know, she could have been seeing the guy before she met you, was already fucking him, he finally decided that he wanted to take it to the next level, and she was down for that. The flip side is she met him after she met you, he made the move she didn't feel you were going to make, he hit it and hit it right, so she decided she was done wasting her time with you.

I'm not sure what you're doing with these girls on dates, but where I live, a date is, pick her up, take her to a club, dance with her, liquor her up, take her home, bang her, drop her off. I don't really take girls on "traditional" dates until after we've fucked and it has been established that the vibe between us is cool.

The incident with the girl was cold, but obviously she didn't take it seriously, and neither should you have since it sounds like you only went out with her once, so there wasn't an emotional or physical attachment on either end for there to be hurt feelings. It's more that your ego was hurt, and one of the lessons for all players who are going to be in this game, is that you have to leave your ego out of it.

Good job bouncing back and moving on to the next one, that's all you can do.

Post: #3

Well done to the OP for getting over the rejection fast I tend not to care about rejection too much as it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things when you actually think about it. I like to use the "its her loss" thought when I get rejected as even though it's your male hamster at work what you're really doing is stopping your ego/confidence from being knocked.

Post: #4

In my opinion, this, along with approach anxiety is the Male Hamster..

If you care about rejection, you care too much.

If you have an emotional reaction to rejection, you are being too emotional.

A rejection is a lesson in how to improve. You should welcome this.

Care less, have more fun!

Post: #5

There's almost infinite variation in human taste, including women's taste in men.

Is lobster "bad" because some people don't like it?

That's the way I think of rejection. If a girl doesn't like me, it says little about my desirability in general, just like if she doesn't like lobster it doesn't make lobster a less desirable dish overall. Just one broads opinion.

I was once rejected by a chick, then months later saw her walking down the sidewalk holding hands with this white dude with dreadlocks who looked like he hasn't bathed in weeks. She went for a different type than me (and I like my type better than a Rastafarian burning man type). No harm in having different tastes.

Post: #6

Most of the times when things go wrong, one can learn from those situations. Besides, if you have many options, one rejections should not be bad enough.

Post: #7

(09-19-2013 03:34 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  A couple days ago, I was on a date with a girl I had met the other week (after turning down another to pursue this one). Everything went well, except she works full-time and was hard to pull her back to mine on a weeknight. I figured, no problem, ask her out again on a Fri/Sat. The following day, she sent a message along the lines of 'I've just recently started seeing another guy and I don't want to lead you on anymore. I have to end things here.'

Maybe y'all didn't click? I think everyone has had a date where they felt everything was going right and she responds well but it ends for some odd reason. I'll be honest, I don't think she was that into you.

Quote:This stung quite a bit, despite being rejected thousands of times before, sometimes it still catches you off-guard.

Of course. You invested time, money and energy in her. What should've been an easy lay turned into some bullshit. It happens EVERYONE. Don't dwell on it.

Quote:I was literally this close to staying at home, watching some porn, ordering some take-away chinese and having a couple beers by myself (my usual remedy). I compare this route to the drug user, who escapes reality for a short-term fix, only to feel like shit afterwards.

The reason why you wanted to escape was because you thought the problem was you. She hurt your self-esteem by choosing another man. Fuck that! Look at it from a different perspective. She was being honest when she could've lied and led you on to make you waste more time, energy and money.

There's a reason why they call it "The Game." You win some and you lose some. The uncertainty, or "the chase" as some people call it, is what keeps us coming back.

Quote:At the last minute (at 9pm), I decided fuck it - put on my gym shorts, there was still an hour left until the gym closes. I ended up smashing out one of my best sessions in a long while and went home to cook up some salmon with a bit of salad. Felt about 80% better just from doing that.

Beautiful! Endorphins from working out and a healthy meal to fuel your body is way better than Chinese, alcohol and feeling sorry for yourself. On top of that, you just made yourself that much tougher emotionally and mentally because you had to the discipline to go to the gym instead of quit when you felt bad.

Quote:The following day I got up early (7am), worked on my online business, and went to nearest university to day-game. Ended up on insta-dating a cute 19yo. I'm now about to see an amazing DJ tonight And feel better than before.

Quote:I can guarantee if I had succumbed to my comfortable and passive coping strategies I would still feel horrible and not make the effort tonight.

I don't ever think we are immune from rejection. Whether it is getting fired from your job, crushed by a girl or diagnosed with an illness. You have to really fight those deep urges that enslave you into the comfort zone and will provide only temporary relief.

I see it ALL the time in the clinic as well. People who don't take responsibility for their injuries and rely on others to help them, recover MUCH slower than someone who adopts a more active approach. There is also evidence to suggest those with an external locus of control (passive coping strategies, relying on others to heal them) experience much more pain for a longer duration than the active copers (rely on themselves). The same applies to real-life.

bring on MOBY tonight!

Very good thread. Be ACTIVE.

Post: #8

(09-19-2013 03:03 PM)Dusty Wrote:  There's almost infinite variation in human taste, including women's taste in men.

Is lobster "bad" because some people don't like it?

That's the way I think of rejection. If a girl doesn't like me, it says little about my desirability in general, just like if she doesn't like lobster it doesn't make lobster a less desirable dish overall. Just one broads opinion.

I was once rejected by a chick, then months later saw her walking down the sidewalk holding hands with this white dude with dreadlocks who looked like he hasn't bathed in weeks. She went for a different type than me (and I like my type better than a Rastafarian burning man type). No harm in having different tastes.

The handful of times I've discussed this with women I like to use the apples and oranges analogy. Nothing wrong with either, but most people have a preference.

Really, that's how you should see rejection. Sure, if you fucked something up, address that absolutely, but ultimately if you're on point and a girl still doesn't want you? Who cares, plenty of others will. The whole POINT of approaching or pursuing is to figure out if she wants you or not, not to "trick" her into wanting you. Rejection is inherently possible in any proposal involving someone else's choice.

Post: #9

(09-19-2013 02:58 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  In my opinion, this, along with approach anxiety is the Male Hamster..

If you care about rejection, you care too much.

If you have an emotional reaction to rejection, you are being too emotional.

A rejection is a lesson in how to improve. You should welcome this.

Care less, have more fun!

This is a great mindset to have. However it is much easier said than done.

Many people make a clear dichotomy that girls are emotional/guys are logical. This is too simplistic IMO. We ARE emotional beings whether we like it or not - just look at problem gamblers/drug addicts - men are affected equally, if not more-so than women in these realms. The frontal lobe (logical) cannot always over-ride the deeper, more primitive side to our brains.

Understanding and accepting that sometimes you will feel like shit, despite all logical arguments as to why you shouldn't is important. What defines us, is the ensuing actions and behaviours that are harnessed from this 'down' state.

Post: #10

Completely eliminate the possibility of finding eternal happiness with any one woman from your mind. Understand that all relationships come to the end. Either through death, or she becomes too ugly for you over time, or she finds another man.

Then it is impossible for rejection to hurt you.

Post: #11

I have a unique perspective on rejection. Note: sometimes rejection will be nothing. It will be a joke!

Other times it will hurt. But I think a lot of guys are going to see that hurt as self generated, when it is often generated by the female. It can linger and takes a few hours (at least) to get over it. I can't say I've figured it out, but a lot of females have no qualms about pulling that trigger at will. (and they can also do it at a distance)

I think, once I accepted this, AA largely disappeared, and I understood the rejection was often not my "stuff", but quite often what the female was doing to me via her "mysterious powers!"

But the hurt often still remains. It also gives you a greater respect for yourself and other guys who do cold approach. It can be a jungle out there! Healthy respect of that is I think healthy!

Post: #12

(09-20-2013 02:48 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 02:58 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  In my opinion, this, along with approach anxiety is the Male Hamster..

If you care about rejection, you care too much.

If you have an emotional reaction to rejection, you are being too emotional.

A rejection is a lesson in how to improve. You should welcome this.

Care less, have more fun!

This is a great mindset to have. However it is much easier said than done.

I slightly disagree. I think "much easier" is a gross exaggeration.

I don't think it's that difficult to acquire the mindset that I describe.

You simply need to experience a few hundred rejections with the right perspective.

This shift in perspective can happen in 30-60 days depending on how many approaches you are doing.

If you are not getting rejected on a regular basis, then you are not giving yourself a chance to improve in this area.

(09-20-2013 02:48 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  Many people make a clear dichotomy that girls are emotional/guys are logical. This is too simplistic IMO. We ARE emotional beings whether we like it or not

I agree.

This is a great point that many of us overlook.

(09-20-2013 02:48 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  Understanding and accepting that sometimes you will feel like shit

I like your post. You make some interesting points.

But, I must say..

When you feel like shit, I don't think its because of what the other person did.

It's because of YOUR REACTION to what the other person did. Your emotional reaction.

I'm not saying that men should not be emotional. I'm saying that men should not be a slave or a victim to their emotions.

You are not your emotions, you are the awareness who observes them. At least, thats how I conceptualize it.

Choose your emotions wisely. Yes, I do think we have to power to choose them.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I enjoyed your post.

She is giving you an opportunity to improve your game. You could also welcome this with a positive attitude. You could simply laugh it off. You can be amused by the whole thing. It's your choice.

I think the most important question here is this..

How many girls have you approached in the last 30 days?

This is what will determine how quickly you get over your pains of rejection.

Don't give women power over your emotions. They can't even control their own. Don't expect them to be delicate with yours.

Don't ever lose your sense of humor when it comes to this stuff!

Post: #13

(09-20-2013 01:02 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  You are not your emotions, you are the awareness who observes them.

I like this. A lot.

Post: #14

(09-20-2013 01:02 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  When you feel like shit, I don't think its because of what the other person did.

It's because of YOUR REACTION to what the other person did. Your emotional reaction.

I'm not saying that men should not be emotional. I'm saying that men should not be a slave or a victim to their emotions.

You are not your emotions, you are the awareness who observes them. At least, thats how I conceptualize it.

Choose your emotions wisely. Yes, I do think we have to power to choose them.

I agree since I think you cannot control what another person does but you can control (at least to a certain degree) your reaction/emotion to it.

Post: #15

(09-19-2013 12:23 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-19-2013 03:34 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  A couple days ago, I was on a date with a girl I had met the other week (after turning down another to pursue this one). Everything went well, except she works full-time and was hard to pull her back to mine on a weeknight. I figured, no problem, ask her out again on a Fri/Sat.

When a chick is trying to get fucked, and she wants you to be the one to do it, what she has going on is irrelevant. Chicks will ignore texts and phone calls from Mom and BFF, skip doctor appointments, and even make up bullshit excuses to get out of work if it means getting some sex, so the fact that it was a weeknight is completely irrelevant. The truth is, and I'll go into on the next point...

I agree with commenter:
1) Never believe excuses 2) Never believe excuses 3) NEVER BELIEVE EXCUSES, DAMMIT ( To self in mirror)

But big respect to OP for detailed account reminding us, and for resorting to Salmon, Salad, and working out!!

Be ripped, get bitches!! Carry on bro!

Aslo, cognitive reframing is great: She didn't reject you, you found out the massive set of girls who will fuck you doesn't include her.

Post: #16

To carry on with the workout cure...

Rejection sting is like the DOMS you get from gym training. First time hurts badly and you feel crippled for a week BUT funny thing is, if you don't get back to the gym soon enough for more tries, the next time will hurt just the same. That's when the weak quits. If you keep going regularly despite the pain, your body will adapt, the soreness and aches go away and you realise that as you recover each time, you get stronger. Eventually you hardly notice it, although it's always there like a simple fact of life.

Post: #17

(09-20-2013 01:02 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I slightly disagree. I think "much easier" is a gross exaggeration.

I don't think it's that difficult to acquire the mindset that I describe.

You simply need to experience a few hundred rejections with the right perspective.

This shift in perspective can happen in 30-60 days depending on how many approaches you are doing.

If you are not getting rejected on a regular basis, then you are not giving yourself a chance to improve in this area.

(09-20-2013 02:48 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  Many people make a clear dichotomy that girls are emotional/guys are logical. This is too simplistic IMO. We ARE emotional beings whether we like it or not

I agree.

This is a great point that many of us overlook.

(09-20-2013 02:48 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  Understanding and accepting that sometimes you will feel like shit

I like your post. You make some interesting points.

But, I must say..

When you feel like shit, I don't think its because of what the other person did.

It's because of YOUR REACTION to what the other person did. Your emotional reaction.

I'm not saying that men should not be emotional. I'm saying that men should not be a slave or a victim to their emotions.

You are not your emotions, you are the awareness who observes them. At least, thats how I conceptualize it.

Choose your emotions wisely. Yes, I do think we have to power to choose them.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I enjoyed your post.

She is giving you an opportunity to improve your game. You could also welcome this with a positive attitude. You could simply laugh it off. You can be amused by the whole thing. It's your choice.

I think the most important question here is this..

How many girls have you approached in the last 30 days?

This is what will determine how quickly you get over your pains of rejection.

Don't give women power over your emotions. They can't even control their own. Don't expect them to be delicate with yours.

Don't ever lose your sense of humor when it comes to this stuff!

Some great stuff Gio.

Around 2,000 years ago the Stoic philosophers figured this out. The Stoic philosopher Epictetus said :

"Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them."

Like you said Gio, you have a lot of choice in your emotions. You can choose to get upset or choose to shake it off and move on.

Admiral James Stockdale was shot down in Viet Nam and held in a prisoner of war camp for 7-8 years. He studied Epictetus and other Stoics at Stanford, and put these philosophies into practice in the POW camp. They tortured him routinely, but he trained his mind not to fear the torture and to not show the fuckers who were doing it to him that they were pushing his buttons. It's how he survived those 7 years. The power he got from demonstrating to himself and his captures that they could break his body but not his mind and spirit gave him the morale and strength to make it through the worst conditions imaginable.

It's quite an inspirational story. What we face approaching women pales in comparison to what he faced so we can much easier train ourselves to have the mental strength and toughness to handle whatever these bishes throw our way . After all, what we are doing is called "game" not "torture."

Post: #18

(09-20-2013 11:59 PM)Dusty Wrote:  Around 2,000 years ago the Stoic philosophers figured this out. The Stoic philosopher Epictetus said :

"Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them."

Thanks for posting that Dusty.

I'm gonna study that guy.

(09-20-2013 11:59 PM)Dusty Wrote:  Admiral James Stockdale was shot down in Viet Nam and held in a prisoner of war camp for 7-8 years. He studied Epictetus and other Stoics at Stanford, and put these philosophies into practice in the POW camp.

Being tortured in a POW camp is something I don't even want to think about.

I'm pretty resilient in bouncing back from day game rejections but I have never been tested like Admiral Stockdale was tested.

Some guys experience things that make my life seem like a big joke.

The mental power and self-belief that Admiral Stockdale exhibited is beyond words.

I have read a lot of "Mans Search for Meaning" and I think the author has a similar perspective about the ability choose ones attitude.

Those guys were literally facing torture and death and yet they still found a positive meaning in the experience.

Great post Dusty!

Post: #19

(09-20-2013 06:05 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Also, cognitive reframing is great: She didn't reject you, you found out the massive set of girls who will fuck you doesn't include her.

"Cognitive Reframing"

Thanks for adding that. Thats exactly what this is.

I actually try to avoid the need to "re" frame. I want my frame right the first time.

I strive to have my frame optimized before I enter an interaction.

I would call it "Pre-Interaction Frame Setting/Establishing"

My frame is set before I enter the interaction so if she rejects me, my mind is already prepared to process it in a way that benefits me.

Of course, this doesn't always work and I often have a bit if "reframing" to do.

Post: #20

Thanks Gio.

I wrote on another thread I am writing a book about Approach Anxiety, and applying the work of Albert Ellis’ Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT). Ellis was heavily influenced by Epictetus as well. Ellis was a shy, nerdy, but horny teenager who was studying philosophy in college, when at age 19 (in the 1930’s) he decided he would apply philosophy to his approach anxiety and conquer it once and for all. He did, and he became a legendary ladies man. He wrote an autobiography in his 90s right before he died, and in it he wrote about all the pussy he got in his life. Lol. He talked about how he likes strange (he calls it being a “varietist”). He said he got so good at pulling women, he often had to turn down new pussy because there were only so many hours in the day. He lived with a girlfriend for 30 years, but in an open relationship, and he was getting all kinds of strange on the side.

He did it by having such a strong frame. He simply would not let anyone shake his self-perception of himself. He was in complete control of his self-identity and self-worth. He became fearless with women, and of course a lot of them got gina tingles from the confidence and self-security he exuded.

Here’s one of his books where he describes his philosophy and therapy:

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Rational-Liv...bert+ellis

Post: #21

There is no question it would be good for you if you decide to hit the gym, climb the mountain and do other healthy recreational things after you are frustrated with some chicks.

But how about going out at night to forget about her or to learn more about game?

Obviously, if it went well, you would feel good about yourself but if you fail, you will feel horrible 2x.

Post: #22

(09-21-2013 03:12 PM)Dusty Wrote:  Thanks Gio.

I wrote on another thread I am writing a book about Approach Anxiety, and applying the work of Albert Ellis’ Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT). Ellis was heavily influenced by Epictetus as well. Ellis was a shy, nerdy, but horny teenager who was studying philosophy in college, when at age 19 (in the 1930’s) he decided he would apply philosophy to his approach anxiety and conquer it once and for all. He did, and he became a legendary ladies man. He wrote an autobiography in his 90s right before he died, and in it he wrote about all the pussy he got in his life. Lol. He talked about how he likes strange (he calls it being a “varietist”). He said he got so good at pulling women, he often had to turn down new pussy because there were only so many hours in the day. He lived with a girlfriend for 30 years, but in an open relationship, and he was getting all kinds of strange on the side.

He did it by having such a strong frame. He simply would not let anyone shake his self-perception of himself. He was in complete control of his self-identity and self-worth. He became fearless with women, and of course a lot of them got gina tingles from the confidence and self-security he exuded.

Here’s one of his books where he describes his philosophy and therapy:

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Rational-Liv...bert+ellis

Tremendous find!

Post: #23

Yeah thanks Dusty, I had never heard of him before. I listened to a lecture of his on youtube, awesome stuff. It's about conquering the need for love and relates directly to dealing rejection. He talks about how irrational it is that we want everyone like us

Post: #24

What is it that is being rejected?

This is all a game.

It's your bad game that's being rejected, not you, so don't take it personally. If your game keeps getting rejected, try some different approaches until you strike on something that works. Be persistent.

Post: #25

Why rejection hurts is probably also chemical. T- shots might help to bear the feeling of failure.

Quote:The function of the elevated T following a win and the drop in T following a loss is not known. One possibility is that winners are soon likely to face other challengers; the high T may prepare them for this eventuality. The drop in T among losers may encourage withdrawal from other challenges, thus preventing further injury.

http://cogprints.org/663/1/bbs_mazur.html