Post: #26

(08-06-2013 08:57 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  ^ good shit bro.

The bigger question why didn't you open ?????

Too much of a shock to the system I think.

I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about the fact that I can goto the gym for 10 weeks, get jacked, level of effort 7/10 and it barely measures a blip on the value radar with a lot of chicks.

Or I can go and buy some clothes, level of effort 2/10 and see instant value changes.

I get it that it's like you're fitting a totally different stereotype, but it still seems unfair lol. It's just my dumb reptilian brain stuck in a guy way of thinking attraction (good body) vs a girls way of seeing attraction (value).

Post: #27

Ok, I'm gonna get with the program this week and update the thread.

Post: #28

I bought Day Bang on sale Sunday and listened to about 4 chapters. So now I am incorporating day game into my approaches, did 3 today at the gym. Details later, but I am still stuck on 'elderly chat.' Might be different outside the gym.

Post: #29

Day Bang is one of the better audio books I have ever heard. My conversations are already evening out by a lot. I was throwing too many hail mary's before and expecting way too much interest from girls too soon.

It's interesting doing it this way. It's like I have to completely forget about my looks, which I normally just expect girls to be attracted to- and just focus on the conversation.

Like he said, just pretend you're an elderly man, and this shit works.

Post: #30

Hail Marys like asking for a number even when it wasn't on?

Post: #31

(08-09-2013 04:33 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Hail Marys like asking for a number even when it wasn't on?

More so expecting the girl to be interested sooner than she is ready. Like expecting her to work too hard.

Assuming that her interest is growing at the same rate as yours, when in fact girls sometimes take longer to get in to it.

Post: #32

(08-07-2013 12:37 AM)Sugar Wrote:  I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about the fact that I can goto the gym for 10 weeks, get jacked, level of effort 7/10 and it barely measures a blip on the value radar with a lot of chicks.

Or I can go and buy some clothes, level of effort 2/10 and see instant value changes.

I get it that it's like you're fitting a totally different stereotype, but it still seems unfair lol. It's just my dumb reptilian brain stuck in a guy way of thinking attraction (good body) vs a girls way of seeing attraction (value).

This is a terrific insight I think newbies should see as what value working out really means.

I used to be a big gym rat in college squatting, deadlifting etc... tons of protein. To be honest if you don't have great genetics for building muscle putting a bunch of time into isn't worth it for attracting girls. You are better off getting your girl value hobby, style, social scene together that will pay vastly higher dividends. Taking the time to throw a house party every 2 weeks and put some effort into it is much better than being at the gym every day for 1-2 hours.

Working out should be about raising your health, testosterone and inner game. When you are wearing clothes when meeting girls 99% of the time the only thing they see is a lean jaw line, broad shoulders, and a thin waist. If you have those everything is is so much lower on their radar it is barely a concern. She doesn't give a fuck you just up'ed your deadlift PR and your lower back is slightly buffer.

And the 1% on a beach or a pool for meeting it is far more important to have < 9% bodyfat than a sturdy core/thighs for squats. Girls don't give a shit about that and your 12-14% bodyfat at the beach.

Post: #33

(08-09-2013 04:46 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 04:33 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Hail Marys like asking for a number even when it wasn't on?

More so expecting the girl to be interested sooner than she is ready. Like expecting her to work too hard.

Assuming that her interest is growing at the same rate as yours, when in fact girls sometimes take longer to get in to it.

I have started to see my day game blossom over the last few months. I keep saying it feels like a PG-13 movie when it is going right and ends in a solid connection that leads to a bang.

It usually is not fast or exciting or many times even that humorous. You just chip away and see them slowly shift their body language. When they cross one leg over the other while standing, touch their hair, and laugh like a school girl, it is time for an instant date.

The elderly shit truly does work. I only go direct when there is eye fucking or no time on the shot clock.

Post: #34

I went to Union Square on Saturday. Saw a hot Asian chick, an 8. She had a dog. I sat near here, then asked about the dog. What kind is it? How old? Boy or girl? etc. I ended up talking to her for about an half hour. She told me she once suffered from Social Anxiety but she pretty much licked it. She said she used to take medication for it and everything. I said, really? Are you taking medication now because you don't seem anxious at all? She said, no medication "I'm just excited." (from me approaching her? I guess so.). She had a fat friend with her, who she turned her back on and was out of the loop the whole conversation. I probably should have tried to include her.

I went for the digits. Told her I had to go but she seemed cool and we should hang out again. She said "oh, I'm sorry I have a boyfriend." I said "no problemo, hey maybe we'll run into each other again here." She said "definitely."

A couple lessons and observations:

1. Women love being approached during the day. I think she slipped when she said she was excited, but I sensed she was really enjoying it before she said that. Newbies - don't be afraid to approach - girls dig it.

2. I need a better response to "I have a boyfriend." I'm thinking a humorous response along the line "he'll never find out, we'll keep this illicit affair on the DL, you can trust me." If I can get her laughing and playing along, I'll shove the phone in her face and get her to put in the digits.

3. I think 8's are in some ways easer to open than 6's. See # 1. They are flattered and enjoy the attention. They know what they got. Some 6's get all shifty eyed and suspicious when they get approached.

Post: #35

Dusty, I completely agree with your last statement. I have always been wildly more successful day approaching 8+s than 7-s and you're right, 6s tend to react with a lot of skepticism, kinda like we would react to a telemarketer saying we won a brand new car.
There are many, mostly contextual, ways to quickly reassure these 6s though, but in general I don't find this worth my time unless there's a shortage of cuter girls around.

Post: #36

(08-09-2013 08:04 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(08-07-2013 12:37 AM)Sugar Wrote:  I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about the fact that I can goto the gym for 10 weeks, get jacked, level of effort 7/10 and it barely measures a blip on the value radar with a lot of chicks.

Or I can go and buy some clothes, level of effort 2/10 and see instant value changes.

I get it that it's like you're fitting a totally different stereotype, but it still seems unfair lol. It's just my dumb reptilian brain stuck in a guy way of thinking attraction (good body) vs a girls way of seeing attraction (value).

This is a terrific insight I think newbies should see as what value working out really means.

I used to be a big gym rat in college squatting, deadlifting etc... tons of protein. To be honest if you don't have great genetics for building muscle putting a bunch of time into isn't worth it for attracting girls. You are better off getting your girl value hobby, style, social scene together that will pay vastly higher dividends. Taking the time to throw a house party every 2 weeks and put some effort into it is much better than being at the gym every day for 1-2 hours.

Working out should be about raising your health, testosterone and inner game. When you are wearing clothes when meeting girls 99% of the time the only thing they see is a lean jaw line, broad shoulders, and a thin waist. If you have those everything is is so much lower on their radar it is barely a concern. She doesn't give a fuck you just up'ed your deadlift PR and your lower back is slightly buffer.

And the 1% on a beach or a pool for meeting it is far more important to have < 9% bodyfat than a sturdy core/thighs for squats. Girls don't give a shit about that and your 12-14% bodyfat at the beach.

I guess it depends on your body type, age etc. I have a good frame for building muscle, but not necessarily the best genes for it. I still work out, because it makes a major difference. I can't get a girl to notice me at 175lbs regardless of my fitness/bf levels, cant get them to look away at 195lb.

Post: #37

(08-11-2013 10:26 PM)Dusty Wrote:  2. I need a better response to "I have a boyfriend." I'm thinking a humorous response along the line "he'll never find out, we'll keep this illicit affair on the DL, you can trust me." If I can get her laughing and playing along, I'll shove the phone in her face and get her to put in the digits.

Dusty:
On several occasions, I have tried that line about he (the boyfriend) will never find out, and most times i got a response like you anticipated... like the girl was not making any significant response or objection and going along with my framing of the situation of having a secret. And, I would take that to be a decent sign. On more than one occasion, and probably the more frequent response, I would get some kind of line(s) like: "oh, I tell him everything. We share everything with each other. We don't have secrets." Usually, I would follow up some kinds of joke about the girl and the guy telling each other when they are in the bathroom or some other trivial thing just to make my point that they probably do not tell each other everything.... and then see how she responds to that.... ; however, I have never felt that those kinds of responses from the girl about not having any secrets from the BF were very good for me being in the picture, and sometimes you can be a little bit prepared for a follow-up response in the event that she comes up with such, just to test her a little further or to make it playful.

Post: #38

^^^Check the Press Club in SF for some high-end girls. Just don't drink too much there, as drinks are 14 dollars starting.

PS- Dont forget to suit up (I personally would ditch the tie, and puff a pocket square in there for style points)

Post: #39

There used to be a french guy on the SF lair who swore by the press club. Claimed that it was a great spot and also to be somewhat of a natural.

Post: #40

Sugar, any updates on your 100 approaches?

Post: #41

(08-25-2013 05:19 PM)Sugar Wrote:  the SF lair

What is the SF lair???

Post: #42

There was a lair since about 2006-7, it changed names a couple times. It's been mainly defunct since November of last year when the admin quit paying for hosting.

Post: #43

(08-25-2013 06:04 PM)pointbreak Wrote:  Sugar, any updates on your 100 approaches?

I don't have an approach by approach breakdown, but I definitely have some observations after 2 weeks of night game (I was out of town for 10 days visiting family, with less opportunities to game)

- General approachability and openness of girls is dramatically influenced by clothing. I've been around a lot, and I can't think of another city where dressing well is as important as it is here.

- You need to always be on your game here. In southern california it doesn't seem to matter as much if you don't shave one day, wear some lame t-shirt, or open weak. Grooming, fitness, clothes that fit, tight game, all factor in to whether you're taken seriously or not.

- Strike while the iron is hot - I've had a few opportunities that I missed because I was stuck in my head for 5 seconds too long. A pretty solid girl (7-ish) was cruising for dick around 1am the other night and I didn't open her when she gave me a look. A few minutes later I saw her leave with a random dude palming her ass.

- I suck after 4+ drinks. I was slow to open the girl above, and other sets, because I was slamming double vodka and tonic.

- When girls do give you a blatant opportunity to open and you don't take it, they will channel that into contempt for you, or worse, pity.

- These are basics, but they're slowly coming back to me, body language, strong and relaxed, head high, eye contact, humor and strong emotions on the opener, especially with 2+ sets.

- open more more more, everywhere, every time I miss a clear opportunity I feel a little bit bad, and every time I open, I feel a little bit good. Building momentum socially is key.

Post: #44

Great observations. It's ironic that SF people constantly hate on LA for being image-obsessed yet you've witnessed that reception from girls there is even more appearance-influenced. Have you found that you have to sport a different style based on the neighborhood you go out in or all it matters is that your clothes fit well? Have you gone out suited down yet?

Post: #45

(08-07-2013 12:37 AM)Sugar Wrote:  

(08-06-2013 08:57 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  ^ good shit bro.

The bigger question why didn't you open ?????

Too much of a shock to the system I think.

I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about the fact that I can goto the gym for 10 weeks, get jacked, level of effort 7/10 and it barely measures a blip on the value radar with a lot of chicks.

Or I can go and buy some clothes, level of effort 2/10 and see instant value changes.

I get it that it's like you're fitting a totally different stereotype, but it still seems unfair lol. It's just my dumb reptilian brain stuck in a guy way of thinking attraction (good body) vs a girls way of seeing attraction (value).

Dude, with a good body you can wear much better fitted clothing. It's synergistic. A lot of fitted clothing looks like crap if you have a belly. It's too easy to hide a good body with shit clothing.

Post: #46

(08-26-2013 03:01 PM)Sugar Wrote:  There was a lair since about 2006-7

What exactly is a "lair"?

Just a group of guys sitting and talking about meeting girls???

Did you bring girls back to this "lair"?

Did they charge a fee to join?

Was food, drinks provided?

Was it just at some guys house?

I'm thinking of doing something similar.

Post: #47

(08-27-2013 01:16 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 03:01 PM)Sugar Wrote:  There was a lair since about 2006-7

What exactly is a "lair"?

Just a group of guys sitting and talking about meeting girls???

Did you bring girls back to this "lair"?

Did they charge a fee to join?

Was food, drinks provided?

Was it just at some guys house?

I'm thinking of doing something similar.

A lair is exactly like roosh v forum, expect it is centralized on the guys who go out in a certain city. Usually you need to live there and also sarge to contribute to the lair.

A house where a bunch of guys bring girls is something different, but I think that's a good idea.

Post: #48

So now I've banged 3 girls in a week, so I must be doing something right. I met one girl at a house party on 4th of July and kept in touch with her on FB. Met another girl at a bar on Polk and California area, and the third girl was from OKC.

I would say my biggest changes in what I'm doing right is dominance. Being loud and even aggressive with my speaking, using the "man" voice. Lots of BT Spikes. I was way too quiet and passive before in a way that I thought was being "the cool guy" but I was just coming off as not dominant enough I guess. Women crave that.

I'm also coming to realize shit tests a lot more. I am guessing it's mostly unconscious on their part but you are constantly getting shit tested even more so when the girl's becoming attracted to you.

Post: #49

(08-27-2013 03:09 AM)pointbreak Wrote:  Great observations. It's ironic that SF people constantly hate on LA for being image-obsessed yet you've witnessed that reception from girls there is even more appearance-influenced. Have you found that you have to sport a different style based on the neighborhood you go out in or all it matters is that your clothes fit well? Have you gone out suited down yet?

I haven't gone out in a suit yet, but I have frequently worn dress shirts and lighter jackets. I don't really dress neighborhood appropriate, because SF is so population-dense and such a hodgepodge of different people that it would be difficult to find a place where it's a totally homogeneous dress.

I've found some neighborhoods are better than others, because some parts of town are really insular. I'm convinced most neighborhoods are good, but so far haight (lower and upper) suck giraffe balls.

Post: #50

What kinds of shit tests have you been seeing? Nice work with 3 in one week, that is g as fuck