Post: #151

(08-15-2013 12:57 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  testosterone

Mike,

Where does this testosterone come from?

I think in another thread you mentioned that you get it from China..

How do they get it?

Dead bodies? Aborted babies? Animals?

The substance has to come from someones body, right?

Or, can it just be made artificially in a laboratory? I wonder what they use to make it?

Post: #152

It also has to be taken for life, not always covered by insurance unless you're basically a eunuch, and is expensive on its own. The gels are a mess they say and if even the slightest amount of residue gets on a woman it can affect her.

The shots are the same thing that bodybuilders take. Having worked as a personal trainer before, I think every amateur bodybuilder I've asked has told me they regret taking testosterone. Most of them were men of average testosterone who wanted that extra boost, now they aren't into bodybuilding anymore, but have to take it for life.

There's a lot of stuff out there, total T vs free T vs bioavailable T. It's possible to have high free T, average total T, vice versa.

An interesting thing, men in prison usually have some of the highest across-the-board T levels of anyone.

Post: #153

(08-15-2013 12:57 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-14-2013 01:21 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I posted on this topic yesterday, in this thread, and really I think that anyone, at any age, better be really careful when beginning to supplement with testosterone... b/c even doctor get this shit wrong and give people testosterone and screw them up. Part of the problem in taking testosterone is that it thereafter down regulates your own production b/c your body begins to think it has enough from the supplement.. then when you stop taking the supplement, you are worse off than before you started. I would be very careful about taking any testosterone supplement, no matter what your age...

Please stop spreading ignorance.

Exogenous testosterone is not a "supplement." It's a drug that has been clinically proven to enhance a man's life.

Of course using T shuts down the body's natural production. That's why a man shouldn't start taking T until his own levels are already declining.

Mike: I'm using the word supplement to say that if you take testosterone, then you are taking it to supplement your body's own production.

I do not want to get into an argument with anyone regarding these kinds of health choices b/c we can have a variety of sources and opinions, and I realize that people's validation of sources can vary quite a bit. Personally, I tend to be skeptical of some mainstream sources, and I do not want to knock anyone for relying on mainstream sources, but sometimes I am especially skeptical of links to the drug and pharmaceutical industry. I tend to trust sources like Dr. Joseph Mercola... which i link to below - though I read anything with a grain of salt, and get what I can from it.

Below is a couple of recent articles from Dr. Mercola concerning supplementing with testosterone and ways to naturally push towards increasing testosterone, which i think could help members to consider upside and/or downside of supplementing your body with testosterone. I, also, would concede that there may be some instances in which some men may have some medical condition that requires some form of testosterone supplementation. Hopefully, at least, this helps to show some sources for my previous comments.

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness...evels.aspx

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness...evels.aspx


@ la mode - That is interesting about the prisoners' testosterone levels. It may be a survival matter, once in that situation, that the prisoner engages in behaviors like exercise to boost testosterone. Although, of course, maybe there was something that caused the T to be high, already, before being placed in prison.

Post: #154

(08-15-2013 01:28 PM)la_mode Wrote:  The shots are the same thing that bodybuilders take. Having worked as a personal trainer before, I think every amateur bodybuilder I've asked has told me they regret taking testosterone. Most of them were men of average testosterone who wanted that extra boost, now they aren't into bodybuilding anymore, but have to take it for life.

There are many ways to restore the body's natural testosterone production. The whole purpose behind post-cycle therapy is to restore the body's natural T production.

Many men who have been on TRT for years or even a decade or more go off of it when they want to have kids. There are many ways to restore the body's natural T output.

Do you even know what HCG is?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but you don't even have the facts down.

Educate yourself before talking about this stuff, please, as there is enough misinformation and ignorance in the world.

Post: #155

(08-15-2013 01:28 PM)la_mode Wrote:  It also has to be taken for life, not always covered by insurance unless you're basically a eunuch, and is expensive on its own. The gels are a mess they say and if even the slightest amount of residue gets on a woman it can affect her.

A 10 ml vial of testosterone cyponiate from a pharmacy is $100.

A vial comes 200 mg/ml.

Most guys on TRT are going to take around 125 or so mg a week, with 200 mg a week being at the high end.

Do the math. That's, at most, $10 a week.

Or $40 a month.

Is that expensive?

Please stop posting. You don't have a clue.

UPDATE:

Testosterone cyp at Costco is:

TESTOSTERONE CYP 200 MG/ML (WAT)
Generic Alternative $65.65

A 10 ml bottle is going to last 2 or 3 months.

That's expensive?

In what world?

Post: #156

(08-15-2013 01:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Below is a couple of recent articles from Dr. Mercola concerning

Mercola is a quack.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html

His entire site is devoted to shilling supplements.

A guy could either spend $25 to $40 a month getting pharm grade testosterone...or spend hundreds of dollars at Mercola's site.

Gee...I wonder why Mercola is so anti-testosterone and pro-supplement?

Post: #157

Um, why would a normal male want to take testosterone?

Post: #158

Gio: I don't know where it would come from but I can think of a few different ways it could be made.

1. Synthesis from cholesterol in the lab. Probably the cheapest/most straight forward method, mix a bunch of shit up and poof some testosterone.

2. Production by bacteria. The same way its done to make insulin scientists could probably or have probably engineered bacteria to produce the stuff.

3. Extraction from live/dead animal tissues.

Post: #159

(08-15-2013 01:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 01:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Below is a couple of recent articles from Dr. Mercola concerning

Mercola is a quack.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html

His entire site is devoted to shilling supplements.

A guy could either spend $25 to $40 a month getting pharm grade testosterone...or spend hundreds of dollars at Mercola's site.

Gee...I wonder why Mercola is so anti-testosterone and pro-supplement?

Mike:

I do recognize that mainstream medicine is really out to denigrate Mercola, and that anyone performing a Google name search on Mercola would find that quack reference that you pointed out. But, merely b/c Mercola is labelled by that website and by mainstream medical industries as a quack does not make him a quack.

Mercola has made a lot of good contributions to the study of health in terms of science studies and information that is based on science, and he is not the only source that i could cite regarding problematic nature of supplementing your testosterone levels, and this is no personal attack towards anyone who may make that choice to supplement their testosterone levels. I would prefer trying to boost your natural production as suggested by Mercola... I mean, is there anything wrong with Mercola's suggestions in this regard?

I do not buy any of Mercola's supplements, and i have not researched into taking his supplements. Generally, i am not too keen on taking supplements; however, currently, I take magnesium, fish oil and vitamin D, and even though I have my reasons for taking these, i am not really into trying to convince anyone else to take these supplements. I know that there are potential downsides to any supplements, but one argument is that we may not be able to get some micro nutrients from our diet, and in that regard may need to supplement.

If it is true that Mercola is biased in providing information by his selling supplements, then that should definitely be used against any arguments that he makes.

I don't really want to persuade anybody, and if people are comfortable with their life choices regarding supplementing your testosterone levels, then all the more power to you. Caution in this direction seems warranted, but people have a right to differ in their personal choices.

Post: #160

I have no interest in taking advice on how to boost testosterone from someone who obviously has low testosterone:



I got no hate for skinny and geeky guys.

But if that's how you look, you don't get to be an authority on testosterone.

It's all about staying in your lane.

Practice what you preach.

Now if a man is in his late 60s/70s and looks like this, then I am all ears.

Post: #161

That's the cenegenics guy, isn't that some kind of HGH though?

Post: #162

(08-15-2013 01:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 01:28 PM)la_mode Wrote:  The shots are the same thing that bodybuilders take. Having worked as a personal trainer before, I think every amateur bodybuilder I've asked has told me they regret taking testosterone. Most of them were men of average testosterone who wanted that extra boost, now they aren't into bodybuilding anymore, but have to take it for life.

There are many ways to restore the body's natural testosterone production. The whole purpose behind post-cycle therapy is to restore the body's natural T production.

Many men who have been on TRT for years or even a decade or more go off of it when they want to have kids. There are many ways to restore the body's natural T output.

Do you even know what HCG is?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but you don't even have the facts down.

Educate yourself before talking about this stuff, please, as there is enough misinformation and ignorance in the world.

Yes, I know what it is. There's several of these lesser-known hormones (FSH, LH) that all play a role in T.

The general consensus is that it can be boosted by eating certain foods and lifting heavy weights combined with certain supplements, but nothing is going to get it nearly as high as actually taking T.

All I'm saying is, taking it does have some risks which many try to ignore. Men react differently when they stop taking it. I've personally known amateur bodybuilders who have regretted taking it.

Now, for a man in his mid 40s and up who really needs it, that's a different story. It's also being prescribed now more than ever, which does seem a bit strange.

http://www.livescience.com/37101-testost...rease.html

Post: #163

Quote:

(08-15-2013 02:59 PM)Vicious Wrote:  That's the cenegenics guy, isn't that some kind of HGH though?

Yes, I've seen this guy on tv selling HGH.

Is there a difference between hgh and testosterone???

What exactly is in this medical HGH?

What exactly is in this medical testosterone?

I just want to know the ingredients??

And, I wanna know if they get it from dead bodies and/or animals???

Post: #164

(08-15-2013 02:59 PM)Vicious Wrote:  That's the cenegenics guy, isn't that some kind of HGH though?

Both. HGH by itself doesn't do much of anything. It'll improve skin texture and help some nagging injuries heal (that's how Tiger Woods and other pro athletes heal up so quickly after surgery). But if a 40 year old man took HGH, he wouldn't get jacked.

Test + HGH = Stallone, Dr. Life, etc.

Post: #165

My two cents : I have been using Sustanon (test) for the last couple of years, I usually take it 2x a year as a little "turbo" boost. I simply love the stuff, it gives me no side effects. What it does for me is make me stronger, feel younger, makes my dick feel thicker, shoot bigger loads, better recovery in the gym and during sex. All in all, I feel more manly and believe you me people notice and make comments.
When I am on the stuff I can easily walk into my gym, put 45 llb plates on a big bar and do arm curls. My favourite exercise is incline bench press, I get cheap thrills from putting two plates aside and benching. Most dudes in my gym stay away from that exercise.
I am in my mid 40s and black, luckily my genetics allows me to shave 10-12 years of my age. I still have to maintain myself more regularly, trim my grey nose hairs, shave the grey out of my beard area, shave the grey out of my pubes and maintain my bald head.
I have been juicing (fruits) for a few months now and have noticed a difference in my skin, the other day I had a spinach shake for lunch and a berry shake for breakfast which filled me up most of the day. Once I get the Vitamax this will be a lifestyle change for me - thanks to MikeCF excellent thread.
I also have started using Coconut oil on my skin, I smell nice and it is a great moisturizer.
I have been taking ZMA, haven't noticed much difference other than my poop stinks.
I have started taking Glucosamine for my joints.
Anybody use Tongkat ali?
I have been diagnosed with gout (hereditary), had a bout of it the other day after a heavy drinking night. Seems my days of alcohol might be coming to an end.
The drawback is that I seem to have trouble sleeping, which can give me raccoon eyes sometimes.
Any recommendations?
Socially, getting attention from girls in their 20s does not seem to be a problem. Some new hottie at the gym seems to be orbiting around my circle, she is very fit and the type of girl who only talks to the juiceheads in the gym. Of course there is always one chump who is on her hard, talking to her while she is on the treadmill. If I can somehow conquer that I will deserve an award, she is half my age easily.
Most of my peers look like crap or act like idiots. They are happy chasing women in their mid 30's to mid 40s, they are quick to argue with me when I make fun of them.

Post: #166

(08-15-2013 02:22 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I have no interest in taking advice on how to boost testosterone from someone who obviously has low testosterone:



I got no hate for skinny and geeky guys.

But if that's how you look, you don't get to be an authority on testosterone.

It's all about staying in your lane.

Practice what you preach.

Now if a man is in his late 60s/70s and looks like this, then I am all ears.

Mike:
I know the top image is Mercola. I haven't seen Mercola with his shirt off, so I would not know how his physique looks but I will give it to you that he does look kind of skinny and geeky in that picture.

I don't know who is the muscular guy in the other picture (and probably, i should b/c it seems that i have seen that picture somewhre before). The muscular guy looks like he is in his eighties with a body of an in good shape 35 year old. If i knew who he is I could look him up and read his story to see how supplementing with testosterone may have played into his overall physique and/or health. BTW, my understanding is that steroids may make someone look real good on the outside, too, but that looking good on the outside would not necessarily be determinative of overall health, and sometimes we cannot tell the health condition of a person, exactly, from outward appearance.

RudeB: it is good to hear your personal experience, and when you say you only take the testosterone twice a year, is that only two doses or two periods of time that you take it?

BTW, Mike, are you saying that you are not going to read, at all, anything that Mercola has to write, possibly in part based on how he looks? Mercola has a lot of good ideas and science to support it and a lot of the points made on this thread in terms of ways to naturally improve your testosterone production and even the two articles that i linked above are good examples of a lot of good ideas that Mercola has. I would feel better making an argument about various ideas rather than the person.. b/c arguing about people may lead us to just arguing without real substance. Certainly, personal testimonies can be helpful regarding this.

Also, I have nothing against beautiful people; however, I have found that sometimes beautiful people talk a lot of nonsense about something that they believe is universally applicable to others b/c it worked for them and their genetics - even though likely it would not work for others, so even if Mercola does not look the greatest, he still has a lot of good ideas. I am not opposed to seeing what beautiful people have to say, as well.

Post: #167

So Mike you believe that anyone over 40 should be taking hgh and T? You know how hangovers get worse with age will this counteract this?

Post: #168

Do these thoughts account for the fact that a young woman (around 20) is more valuable, and thus even a slight difficulty in getting young women can't be offset by the increased access to women around 30 and 40? Or do you think the difference isn't so profound?

Post: #169

(08-15-2013 03:24 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I have been diagnosed with gout (hereditary), had a bout of it the other day after a heavy drinking night. Seems my days of alcohol might be coming to an end.

Try cherry juice for gout or blend cherries into a smoothie.

Post: #170

(08-15-2013 03:42 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  BTW, Mike, are you saying that you are not going to read, at all, anything that Mercola has to write, possibly in part based on how he looks?

Some of my favorite youtube channels are from raw vegans. I get a lot of juicing tips and salad recipes from the vegans.

But I'd never listen to what they have to say about boosting testosterone.

Same with Mercola.

Now if he posts lab results showing how he is raising people's testosterone levels, then cool.

But where are the lab results?

I just got some lab results. It costs $52 and takes about 5 minutes to get your male hormone levels measured.

So if he knows so much, why not get a bunch of people on his methods and then show how their labs improved?

I am a scientific minded person. Unless I see lab results (and I posted mine when some idiot said that eggs fuck up your cholesterol levels), then I don't give a fuck what some supplement salesperson has to say about anything.

Post: #171

(08-15-2013 05:02 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  So Mike you believe that anyone over 40 should be taking hgh and T? You know how hangovers get worse with age will this counteract this?

Get some injectible B Vitamins - B12 at the least, but a B complex would be best. You can buy them on Amazon.

There are lots of YouTube videos showing how to inject.

Post: #172

(08-15-2013 06:24 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 03:42 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  BTW, Mike, are you saying that you are not going to read, at all, anything that Mercola has to write, possibly in part based on how he looks?

Some of my favorite youtube channels are from raw vegans. I get a lot of juicing tips and salad recipes from the vegans.

But I'd never listen to what they have to say about boosting testosterone.

Same with Mercola.

Now if he posts lab results showing how he is raising people's testosterone levels, then cool.

But where are the lab results?

I just got some lab results. It costs $52 and takes about 5 minutes to get your male hormone levels measured.

So if he knows so much, why not get a bunch of people on his methods and then show how their labs improved?

I am a scientific minded person. Unless I see lab results (and I posted mine when some idiot said that eggs fuck up your cholesterol levels), then I don't give a fuck what some supplement salesperson has to say about anything.

Mike,
Mercola is a juicing advocate.

From my understanding Mercola believes that we all need some meat in our diet.. or if not meat, then at least some dairy and/or eggs. I do not know whether i agree with everything that Mercola says regarding health, and certainly, I am not inclined to buy supplements from him or anyone else. Anyhow, I am pretty sure that Mercola, based on his claims, is not really an advocate of veganism and/or vegetarianism- even though Mercola definitely is into advocating juicing.

I agree that lab results may be helpful in exploring claims about effects of testosterone. I do not know whether Mercola would be a good source for lab results in regard to supporting his various testosterone claims. I would want to look further into that, and if Mercola has any lab results, then that would be good to know and how those results, if they exist, are used in support of his claims about testosterone.

Also, I agree about eggs and that many times false claims are made about eggs being bad in regards to cholesterol. Some of these false claims about eggs and cholesterol may be being made by drug companies trying to sell statin drugs - which is definitely a current problem with information that we receive about cholesterol and diet. Some people are beginning to realize that eggs are very nutritious, but there remains a lot of fear about eating eggs - though not with me.

Post: #173

JayJuan - I run two cycles twice a year, summer is coming to an end so I might start the the second cycle soon. I have some possible "targets" and I would like to put on a good performance, I don't touch Cialis or Viagra. In the past I have used chinese supplements but not for any period of time. My friends and I have a saying "test is best" and "sustie is a mustie", they are younger guys than me so forgive the silly humour.

MikeCF - I am already on the black cherry juice, thanks for the heads up.

Post: #174

Any chance of someone posting a testosterone datasheet?

Im still pretty young (25) but would be nice to know for the future.

Thanks for all the info Mike has already dropped. +1 from me.

Post: #175

(08-09-2013 02:15 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 01:49 PM)Sugar Wrote:  most avg guys ~35+ are going to be too scared of the social stigma of hitting on a 18-21 yo girl. I am curious what other guys think.

I am 37. I only go for girls 18-21. Nothing about it scares me. In fact, it is invigorating for me.

Many of them tell me that they like older guys.

Definitely. I'm older than you and I took out a very hot 19-yr old last night, first time since i got her #. We were out drinking for about 3 hrs, and when she left to use the restroom, these 2 relatively hot ~30-yr olds next to us asked me questions about us/her.

The interesting thing was that they were not negative at all about the situation even though they were clearly single, more impressed with me for pulling it off, and agreed that older guys were better.
We noticed many people and couples checking us out all nite. So I guess if that makes you uncomfortable it may not work for you.