Post: #26

Yeah I dont make up stuff that isn't true that is not a good policy. Plus, if you wait until she txt's and cancels and then you respond with "Oh yeah, well its cool, I'm flying to Vegas to party with really cool friends.." it comes accross as fake and lame. Sorry but that is my honest opinion. A true Alpha or guy in demand will have back ups anyways and will not need to reply with something like this.

I know that in some of this game talk dudes start to act like Wolf just described above with the girls. They start to see some message in everything that goes on and sometimes a flake is a legit excuse.

I mean I was chatting up this hot Honduran girl for a while and really I caught myself reading into shit too much. She flaked a couple times and I got pissed, but turns out she really did have 2 jobs, night school and had to take care of her sisters kid sometimes as well..I dissed her but later found out she really doesn't ever go out much and all that she claimed was probably true.

There is a fine line between flaking and bieng busy, but I think a good standard rule is one or two flakes is ok (def. not 2 flakes back to back) if she is really appologetic about it...but if she really wants to see you she will make time.

Post: #27

(09-22-2010 10:02 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  Yeah I dont make up stuff that isn't true that is not a good policy. Plus, if you wait until she txt's and cancels and then you respond with "Oh yeah, well its cool, I'm flying to Vegas to party with really cool friends.." it comes accross as fake and lame. Sorry but that is my honest opinion. A true Alpha or guy in demand will have back ups anyways and will not need to reply with something like this.

I know that in some of this game talk dudes start to act like Wolf just described above with the girls. They start to see some message in everything that goes on and sometimes a flake is a legit excuse.

I mean I was chatting up this hot Honduran girl for a while and really I caught myself reading into shit too much. She flaked a couple times and I got pissed, but turns out she really did have 2 jobs, night school and had to take care of her sisters kid sometimes as well..I dissed her but later found out she really doesn't ever go out much and all that she claimed was probably true.

There is a fine line between flaking and bieng busy, but I think a good standard rule is one or two flakes is ok (def. not 2 flakes back to back) if she is really appologetic about it...but if she really wants to see you she will make time.

Chicks are gullible enough these days to fall for fake and lame. I sometimes catch myself saying the most lame shit ever, it gets them to touch you and have a laugh with you. The more lame and fake shit that comes out of my mouth the more they are all over me. I can't keep it up, the shit makes me want to throw up. I'm too logical and analytical, bullshitting is not one of my qualities.

Post: #28

If she doesn't seem apologetic and offers to reschedule, then thank her for saving you your time and money.

Texting her,, ohh its ok,, and looking like a little puppy dog isn't gonna get the flake or the one who is actually busy to realize that you're the prize not her. You have to act like you're the prize! Not going out with you is actually her loss, and she's missing the boat.

Delay your text, take your sweet time in responding to her... As Roosh says, if she calls you in the afternoon of the date, don't pick up, she's cancelling. Responding to her cancelled message/text, in a bitter way won't work either. Simple answer, don't respond and confirm that you received her cancellation. To eliminate temptation, I usually delete her number, so that I'm not tempted to call /text... (I'm learning self discipline lol)... This can backfire of course, but never did.. So, your only goal is hoping that she will feel bad and/or even better wanted to go out with you. So, she will see that you didn't respond, she will call/text you the next day or so to reschedule. Trick is, to not even respond.

Post: #29

(09-21-2010 09:55 AM)texaschili Wrote:  If a girl is flaking on you she is either not attracted enough or she actually is busy.

On a sidenote, a good resource to reinitiate contact with girls is roosh text messaging guide. I was reading it yesterday and it worked to set up dates with both of the girls that were flaking on me recently right away.

Recently, girls often flake on me, and I wonder why. Typical situation in a club: I approach, I feel that there's a genuine mutual attraction, we exchange numbers, and I timebridge by suggesting a nice bar xyz. She tells me, yes I would really like to go with you there. Yet, they often cancel because they "have to work" or some other excuse. I don't really get what is missing at the moment.

Post: #30

Fuck if its true.. stop being so damn needy and honest.. its naive and really a good indication of your game is weak and you havent gotten out of the Romeo and Julie mindset.. women are cunts.. face it. Im busy anyways, so I give them the cold shoulder if they flake, they usually come back, then I make it clear my time is precious and if we are to meet its a premise that they arent waisting my time...

that works...

Post: #31

I don't worry about a single girl. Just figuring out how to improve the effectiveness of the process from approaching to fucking her.

Post: #32

(09-23-2010 06:15 AM)Chase Wrote:  

(09-21-2010 09:55 AM)texaschili Wrote:  If a girl is flaking on you she is either not attracted enough or she actually is busy.

On a sidenote, a good resource to reinitiate contact with girls is roosh text messaging guide. I was reading it yesterday and it worked to set up dates with both of the girls that were flaking on me recently right away.

Recently, girls often flake on me, and I wonder why. Typical situation in a club: I approach, I feel that there's a genuine mutual attraction, we exchange numbers, and I timebridge by suggesting a nice bar xyz. She tells me, yes I would really like to go with you there. Yet, they often cancel because they "have to work" or some other excuse. I don't really get what is missing at the moment.

Same story here. This is why the flaking situation is getting maddening, it's because its stunting my progress. Even when I feel an interaction went good, nothing is coming of it.

Post: #33

(09-23-2010 06:15 AM)Chase Wrote:  

(09-21-2010 09:55 AM)texaschili Wrote:  If a girl is flaking on you she is either not attracted enough or she actually is busy.

On a sidenote, a good resource to reinitiate contact with girls is roosh text messaging guide. I was reading it yesterday and it worked to set up dates with both of the girls that were flaking on me recently right away.

Recently, girls often flake on me, and I wonder why. Typical situation in a club: I approach, I feel that there's a genuine mutual attraction, we exchange numbers, and I timebridge by suggesting a nice bar xyz. She tells me, yes I would really like to go with you there. Yet, they often cancel because they "have to work" or some other excuse. I don't really get what is missing at the moment.

I was quoting someone's quote.

Post: #34

(09-20-2010 02:14 PM)feomuerto Wrote:  [quote='texaschili' pid='27722' dateline='1284997309']

@speak-definitely flake on her next time. Don't call to tell her you can't make it, just wait until she calls you. And don't just sit home and do nothing..go out and rock and roll. She will be after you more if she calls and you are around a lot of other people.

I think this is partly age related. Most of you are in your twenties I'm guessing-- no-showing within first two meetings ( without calling BEFORE the appointment time) is instant death in the professional class over 30 years old.

I guess some of you suave guys can handle it better, when you're a doctor or lawyer whose time is worth hundreds per hour that kind of crap is completely intolerable. I guess if it's some 19 year old 9+ I could play that game but I'd rather be screwing a 25 year old 8 than play "who can cancel more" with a 19 year old-- especially since I'm over 40 and it's likely she won't last long anyway because age gap will freak her/her friends after a while.

I think the poster who revealed his harsh text game pointed to something-- hanging on to unreliable people just ends up wasting more time -- IF you
compare it to someone who approaches all the time. If you're approaching like crazy and weeding out flakes like crazy ( this is not me, I'm still pretty AFC)
mabe you can get to a set of chicks who have higher standards.

I welcome varying viewpoints from better players. Maybe 9+/10
chicks are very frequently flaky because they get used to getting away with it.

Post: #35

Ask yourselves this; if you had a date with a very attractive girl, would you flake on her? (Ok maybe now but I mean before learning about game principles?). If I had a date with an 8+ before learning about game, I would probably have made it to the date even if someone close to me had been in a carcrash. If she isnt valuing you enough to even show up, why should you even continue to try to date her? Dump her and move on to the next, if she calls you back and begs then fine, maybe.

(09-20-2010 01:42 AM)wolf Wrote:  She offered to reschedule. That's a plus.

I noticed if you live in the city then flaking is part of the culture. Especially LA, you should know that.

I'm thinking of moving somewhere outside the city, some small town. Lower cost of living, less game required ( big city= lots of options= high level of game), people more friendly.

Most girls who flake offer some vague rescheduling. The risk of them flaking next time is big. True stuff about big/small town though.

(09-20-2010 02:38 AM)Kona Wrote:  

(09-19-2010 09:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  She offered to reschedule.

Speakeasy brah,

Whenever your next planned meeting with this girl is, FLAKE ON HER. Sell your excuse well. Make it something cool or tough. Then reschedule for around 3 days later and keep those plans. Trust me, you'll get laid.

Aloha!

Maybe I'll try this sometime though.

(09-20-2010 11:52 AM)adrian_D Wrote:  The best writing on this subject is by Stagetwo in his article, 'Why do women flake? And how should we respond?'

Whole article here: http://stagetwo.wordpress.com/2009/01/27...e-respond/

Good article, but doesnt discuss how we can make it easier to not care about a flake (having multiple options/girls).

(09-20-2010 11:56 AM)zanetti Wrote:  

(09-20-2010 10:41 AM)texaschili Wrote:  For chuckles here is a text conversation I had with a girl when she tried to blow me off for a meetup:

Girl: Hey. I've had a really long day at work. Can we maybe meet up another time?

Me: I have a standard that I only give girls one shot at meeting up and I don't compromise. Either your game tonite or never.

Girl: Sorry not your girl then.

Me: Some guys tolerate flaky behavior. I don't.

Girl: It's not flaky. It's called life & being flexible. I get your point & respect that though. Nice to have met you.

no offense but i don't think this will ever work on a genuine hottie

Maybe it will if that hottie knows you have other hotties in your harem ready to take her place at any time.

(09-20-2010 10:31 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  I think one thing that's telling is that you never hear women complaining about being flaked on. I don't think I can even conjure up a memory of a woman I know saying, "we had a first date set up, then he just totally flaked so he can spent time with his friends!" That scenario sounds not only implausible, it sounds laughable. A dude is going to flake on a chic so he can hang around a bunch of cocks? Yet the reverse happens all the time. Only time guys flake on girls is if she's a clingy, needy girl he's been banging for awhile and he needs space. That's about it.

Reality is, women are more important to men, then men are to women. If men and women assigned equal importance to each other, we wouldn't be talking about this issue.

Let's make them less important, then. Or, rather, lets make each and every single girl less important by having many girls. If you eavesdrop on girls, they often talk about guys flaking on them, think Roosh had a post about this.

(09-21-2010 02:25 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-20-2010 10:41 AM)texaschili Wrote:  For chuckles here is a text conversation I had with a girl when she tried to blow me off for a meetup:

Girl: Hey. I've had a really long day at work. Can we maybe meet up another time?

You: No problem, in fact I can't make it either as my friend just invited me to a house party/I just booked a flight and departing to Vegas in two hours. Sorry for bothering you.

(09-21-2010 09:55 AM)texaschili Wrote:  "Good principle to have, but is bad advice when it comes to women. If a girl is flaking on you she is either not attracted enough or she actually is busy. You have to make her more attract before you take her out. If I closed the door like this on some girls in my past I would have missed out on good times."

I never mind closing the door permanently on a dead end. Every time I have tried to re-schedule I have been flaked on a *second* time. I mean jeez, at least I prevented myself from having that happen. Now or never are the only terms I accept because it is to easy to develop new leads.

Perhaps I'm missing out on later good times but I can never know for sure b/c she started off on the wrong foot which I don't tolerate. It never really bothers me when I alienate a girl like this because now I know for sure she wasn't attracted and she was a dead end.

As of now, I have a zero toleration policy on flaking. It might not always get me the girl, but at least I do get self-respect and respect from others (which in turn might lead to ther girls). The only way for a girl to get a second chance with me after flaking is if she shows up at my doorstep in nothing but panties. Im tired of the power women have had on me. If I can't fuck them, fuck them.

(09-22-2010 10:02 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  Yeah I dont make up stuff that isn't true that is not a good policy. Plus, if you wait until she txt's and cancels and then you respond with "Oh yeah, well its cool, I'm flying to Vegas to party with really cool friends.." it comes accross as fake and lame. Sorry but that is my honest opinion. A true Alpha or guy in demand will have back ups anyways and will not need to reply with something like this.

I know that in some of this game talk dudes start to act like Wolf just described above with the girls. They start to see some message in everything that goes on and sometimes a flake is a legit excuse.

I mean I was chatting up this hot Honduran girl for a while and really I caught myself reading into shit too much. She flaked a couple times and I got pissed, but turns out she really did have 2 jobs, night school and had to take care of her sisters kid sometimes as well..I dissed her but later found out she really doesn't ever go out much and all that she claimed was probably true.

There is a fine line between flaking and bieng busy, but I think a good standard rule is one or two flakes is ok (def. not 2 flakes back to back) if she is really appologetic about it...but if she really wants to see you she will make time.

True, an alpha doesnt even bother to respond.
I've gotten flaked on by girls in developing countries (albeit middle/upper class ones). It was hard to know if the excuses were genuine or not, because of the culture adn economic differences.

The question we should be asking ourselves is; if the girl is really interested then why does she flake? Maybe the answer is that she really isnt that interested and feels you arent good enough for her. If she really is interested but still flakes she has got a f-up distorted idea about social interactions and any kind of contact with her is bound to be marked by her trying to control and manipulate you, even though she will concede the eventual lay just to keep you under her spell (just when you've had it and are ready to break away).

Post: #36

If a girl flakes on me and it bothers me it means I don't have enough rods in the fire. If you have several on the go, you really shouldn't care if one flakes, it's unfortunate, move on. She's basically next'd herself, it's her choice to make it up to you. Communicate that her flaking didn't bother you and that you've got better things to do by not responding. After a flake, saying anything first appears needy or having low standards.
That said, next time I'm flaked, I want to try this: http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/r...g-a-flake/

Post: #37

In traditional game literature they discuss the idea that women see you as an option rather then a plan set in stone.

Post: #38

(04-04-2011 01:32 AM)solo Wrote:  The question we should be asking ourselves is; if the girl is really interested then why does she flake?

You say that you have read what Stagetwo had to say about flaking but maybe it needs repeating the answer he gives to yoir question:-

Why do women flake?

A woman will flake for a combination of two reasons:

(1) She does not know that you have high value to her.

(2) She needs to test your value as a man.

Her uncertainty about your value (1) makes seeing you an option for her, rather than something she definitely wants to do. This may annoy you. After all her agreeing to see you suggested otherwise. You may experience a sense of rejection, as her flaking suggests that you are less important to her than she is to you.

And then again you may wonder if her excuse might simply be true. You may feel that your response should depend on whether her excuse is true or just something she made up. However, we will see below that such thinking is misguided.

First, we need to remember that the reason for her flaking is not that she knows you have low value (in that case you would not be interesting to her to even play games with). The reason is that she does not yet know that you have high value to her.

Her value to you and other men is largely defined by her looks. Thus, her value is obvious and an instant reality in your relations with her. Your value, on the other hand, is not greatly dependent on your looks, but rather on the masculine quality of your mind and actions and on your social status. So unless you have a reputation preceding you (celebrity or local hero status), your value will become a reality in your relations with her only slowly: as she gets to know you.

If we understand this, we no longer take her flaking as rejection: it indicates merely that she knows too little about us. For example, she may have thought you were cute when she met you. But she may not know whether you can take control of her and make her feel exciting and interesting things.

Since she doesn’t know your value (1), she may flake just because she doesn’t feel enough motivation (sexual attraction or a more general form of interest) to follow through on the date. Moreover, not knowing your value (1) may additionally produce a need in her to test your value (2).

Flaking can serve as a test because it will elicit a response from you and that response will define your value as a man and thus her level of attraction to you…

Post: #39

Good post adrian.

So, when she's flaking, now aka testing our value. How are you supposed to raise that value according to her flaking? By not responding? Are you supposed to raise that value over a text/phone conversation until she's got enough proof to actually see you in person?

I don't know man, your points makes perfect sense, but at the same time its just very stupid.

Post: #40

(04-04-2011 04:04 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  How are you supposed to raise that value according to her flaking? By not responding?

Well, according to Stagetwo...

How should we respond to her flaking?

To even ask yourself whether her excuse is true or not is misguided. Most likely it is not true. But whether it is true or not, it functions as a test either way: your response will define her attraction to you.

If you show you assume it’s true, you’re beta: naive.

If you show you assume it’s not true, you’re beta: insecure.

What’s beta in either case is caring whether it’s true.

To see it as an indication of disinterest and to be disappointed or mad is misguided as well. A highly attractive man lives in sexual abundance – making her flaking irrelevant. If you let on that her flaking is not irrelevant, she will feel that you are not highly attractive.

Most likely she’s lying. But if you feel you need to call her on it, it shows your disappointment, thus her weight in your life, thus that you are a lightweight compared to her, thus that you are not worthy of her. She will not be attracted anymore.

She may feel that it’s possible that you are very hot indeed and still flake: because she wants to see if you really are. So my assumption is this: The greater the challenge she presents to me, the hotter she imagines me to be (but she needs to make sure). From this perspective what she is doing is actually a compliment.

The key: demonstrate that her flaking has no weight for you.

One option: no response at all. She will be frustrated because of the lack of effect of her flaking and will likely contact you again to meet up. Otherwise you can contact her — perhaps two weeks later — completely ignoring the incident. (Plans are options, you accepted she was busy, so were you. Say sorry you forgot to txt back, if she asks.)

Second option: text back: “sure. guess what i just saw: [unrelated observation of mutual interest]”

The idea here is: you got her message. It has no weight for you. It has no effect on your mood or on your attitude toward her. Some random observation of mutual interest that you might have shared under other circumstances as well captures your attention more than your date with her.

In sum, positive or negative attention will reinforce her flaking behavior. Option (1) is to not grace her message with a response at all, then continue contacts later as if nothing had happened (but with some plausible rationale: you were busy otherwise anyway). Option (2): skip to another topic, thus explicitly displaying how little weight her flaking has on you.

With either option, she will be disappointed about the lack of success of her attempt to rock you. And she will be more attracted to you for exactly that reason.

Post: #41

How many of the girls that flaked on you at the first date did you fucked or make out with them later? If I remember well, all of the girls that I kissed or sleep with they didn't flake on me, never. The problem is I don't have so many girls in my past to come out with a rule from my experience.

Post: #42

Quote:She may feel that it’s possible that you are very hot indeed and still flake: because she wants to see if you really are. So my assumption is this: The greater the challenge she presents to me, the hotter she imagines me to be (but she needs to make sure). From this perspective what she is doing is actually a compliment.

I like this, sounds very sexy in a twisted way, never really thought about it like that, feels like it answers so many questions.

I'm going to try your advice, I got a feeling that it is indeed the best move you can make when it comes to a flake.

Post: #43

I'd wager that it's #1 99% of the time. If you look like Ashton Kutcher, you won't be getting #2...or #1 for that matter. She'll meet up with your ass.

Post: #44

(04-04-2011 03:19 PM)adrian_D Wrote:  And then again you may wonder if her excuse might simply be true. You may feel that your response should depend on whether her excuse is true or just something she made up. However, we will see below that such thinking is misguided.

First, we need to remember that the reason for her flaking is not that she knows you have low value (in that case you would not be interesting to her to even play games with). The reason is that she does not yet know that you have high value to her.

Her value to you and other men is largely defined by her looks. Thus, her value is obvious and an instant reality in your relations with her. Your value, on the other hand, is not greatly dependent on your looks, but rather on the masculine quality of your mind and actions and on your social status. So unless you have a reputation preceding you (celebrity or local hero status), your value will become a reality in your relations with her only slowly: as she gets to know you.

If we understand this, we no longer take her flaking as rejection: it indicates merely that she knows too little about us. For example, she may have thought you were cute when she met you. But she may not know whether you can take control of her and make her feel exciting and interesting things.

Since she doesn’t know your value (1), she may flake just because she doesn’t feel enough motivation (sexual attraction or a more general form of interest) to follow through on the date. Moreover, not knowing your value (1) may additionally produce a need in her to test your value (2).

Flaking can serve as a test because it will elicit a response from you and that response will define your value as a man and thus her level of attraction to you…

This is gold +1, very well put

Makes perfect sense, in my experience some very hot chicks use flaking as a shit test when they are curious about you, and if you handle it well, you're in.

But I've seen how they also use it as a weapon of revenge. In some personal and friends' cases I've seen how some women reappear, set up the plans themselves or whatever, just to disappear again. It's some sort of game they play when they feel the need to get even somehow, or need to know they still pull guys (when some player broke their heart), or when they just want plain attention. And the more expensive/inconvenient the flake, the better.

So, gotta be careful when girls gone MIA contact you out of the blue, there may be many other reasons aside from the interest they might have.

Post: #45

Duuude just fuck her already. Ignore her for awhile. If she's flaking on you last minute she clearly has no respect for you or your time. CMON. And staging an elaborate flake for her is just a fucking waste of time.

Learn from your mistake, which you did make in not generating enough attraction and apply it for next time. But don't worry about it, happens all the time. Try having a backup plan. I have a date tomorrow but in my head I always imagine it will flake so I don't give a fuck. Because behind door #1 is door #2.

Try ignoring her when she cancels then cancel on her ass! last minute say hey sorry i can't make it something came up. she'll be like what the fuck.
who cares what you say. make other plans

Post: #46

(07-01-2011 09:13 PM)hypesession Wrote:  Duuude just fuck her already. Ignore her for awhile. If she's flaking on you last minute she clearly has no respect for you or your time. CMON. And staging an elaborate flake for her is just a fucking waste of time.

Learn from your mistake, which you did make in not generating enough attraction and apply it for next time. But don't worry about it, happens all the time. Try having a backup plan. I have a date tomorrow but in my head I always imagine it will flake so I don't give a fuck. Because behind door #1 is door #2.

Try ignoring her when she cancels then cancel on her ass! last minute say hey sorry i can't make it something came up. she'll be like what the fuck.
who cares what you say. make other plans

This thread is nearly a year old. Water under the bridge. At this point I have no idea who I was even referring to at the time.

Post: #47

it is nice to see this thread, as learning to deal with flakes is what i have been dealing with a little bit more of lately. the wisdom you guys have shared is valuable and considerably amplifying my growth in gaming. thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Post: #48

If she flakes first time but attempts to reschedule, go for it. If it keeps happening, keep it moving.

If she flakes first time but does not reschedule, keep it moving, she's not interested.

I'm sorry, pre-emptive flaking sounds like a straight up bitch move. I don't have time for games like that. Clearly I didn't amp up the attraction or comfort enough during the initial meet to prevent this. Adjust game and try again with the next one.

Post: #49

Try dating four women at the same time. Your attention is going to be so spread out that you will actually be happy that one didn't show up and you can have the night to do your own stuff.

The reason flaking hurts so much is because most guys are chasing one chick at a time and investing all of their energy into her.

Once you get into the habit of amassing a bunch of phone numbers you really won't care if one number falls off. With this experience you'll be numb to flaking in no time.

Post: #50

(09-04-2011 03:48 AM)wolf Wrote:  Try dating four women at the same time. Your attention is going to be so spread out that you will actually be happy that one didn't show up and you can have the night to do your own stuff.

The reason flaking hurts so much is because most guys are chasing one chick at a time and investing all of their energy into her.

Once you get into the habit of amassing a bunch of phone numbers you really won't care if one number falls off. With this experience you'll be numb to flaking in no time.

Bingo.