Post: #26

(07-06-2013 12:31 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  didn't roosh write an article about it. in order to become faithful and invested to one girl you have to kill all your alpha/player beliefs are replace them with beta,

Link?

--------

I just read about the Madonna–whore complex.

I don't think that really fits me.

Quote:Freud argued that the Madonna–whore complex is caused by oedipal castration fears which arise when a man experiences the affection he once felt for his mother with women he now sexually desires. In order to manage this anxiety, the man categorizes women into two groups: women he can admire and women he finds sexually attractive. Whereas the man loves women in the former category, he despises and devalues the latter group.

I don't really despise and devalue the latter group. I like them too.

Quote:This earlier theory is based not on oedipal-based castration anxiety but on man's primary hatred of women, stimulated by the child’s sense that he had been made to experience intolerable frustration and/or narcissistic injury at the hands of his mother. According to this theory, in adulthood the boy-turned-man seeks to avenge these mistreatments through sadistic attacks on women who are stand-ins for mother.

I have zero hatred of women.

Quote:According to Freudian psychology, this complex often develops when the sufferer is raised by a cold and distant mother.

My Mother was the opposite of that.

Post: #27

(07-07-2013 08:57 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 03:25 PM)Menace Wrote:  We say that banging lots of guys ruins girls, but why isn't the same true of guys? It may take many more, but over time, can't the constant turnover of women corrode us on the inside? Marriage, family, children, these are all very mundane in a real sense...the antithesis of the lifestyle.

This is very true if we're honest with ourselves. When you think about it, there's a reason traditional societies want people to be virgins when they marry and promiscuity is discouraged. If practiced on a wide scale it has a degenerative effect on the stability of society. Men that don't want to settle down and women riding the cock carousel until menopause. This only works if a relative few number of people do it. If it crosses a critical threshold you'll then have social collapse.

The truth is, the fewer sex partners men and women have, the more likely you are to have stable marriages.

I agree with this post somewhat. A lot of us learn game and come to boards like this because initially, we weren't very good with women, at least not in creating sexual attraction. I think a lot of us wanted to find that one right girl to eventually settle down with. Society kind of pushes you in that direction as a youth with all the disney movies and teen movies and sitcoms. Yet that one girl always alluded many of us and led to heartbreak. After failing, many of us probably said "screw it, I'm going to learn how to really attract women and sleep with them with no consequences, and never take all the bullshit from them again." Well, a lot of us got good at game and now, enjoyed our lives and enjoyed women. After fighting so hard for something, it's hard to just give up what you've struggled for and go back.

Think about. You were putty in some woman's hands. You were nice to her, did shit for her, knew you would be always true to her, and she responded by ignoring you or using the power of her vagina to manipulate and use you for whatever it was she wanted. Life sucked big time. Oneitis because an infectious disease.

What was the cure to oneitis? Banging lots of chicks. Never get focused on just one.

As you get older, you get wiser, you get wealthier, you get more life experience... and you get more attractive in the eyes of most woman. The women who rejected you on the other hand get older and less attractive. And, they get replaced by younger, more attractive girls. You travel outside your neighborhood and to other countries and realize that there are just so many gorgeous, feminine girls that understand a man's true nature and accept it, and you go crazy.

You finally learn the system, the true nature of the world, the red pill so to speak. You are in control now of your life and surroundings...you now have the skills to attract beautiful women, play with their minds, manipulate them for your own means if you want, and of course, sleep with them.

Why, after so long, so much struggle, gaining so much self-knowledge, would you want to give that up?

That's the question that comes into my mind now. I went through pain. I learned to deal with it and improve myself to get to a stage where, though not Cassanova, I'd say I do pretty well for myself. I then see friends of mine who I grew up with with girls who were decent when they got married and now 20 lbs. heavier. Some of them are separated or divorced. Others miserable and on the way there. Of course to be fair, there are others who are quite happy and content in their marriages. Sure, they may not have married beauty queens, but still happy and have a good family life.

One childhood friend of mine, a doctor now, married a woman who in my opinion I would rate a fat 4. Had he had some game, being a physician, he could have scored at least an 8 or above. The guy is a radiologist, making at least 500K at year in SoCal. I'm sure that he was also a virgin until he got married. Yet, he's happy with his fat 4 woman and has two kids together. Their marriage is working great. Of course he doesn't know any better. He's never had his choice of women or banged anything close to a C-rated model, but he is happy.

After knowing what I know now and banging the girls I have, I could never go back to where he is or even my old self. I've struggled too hard and come too far. So I tell myself.

This is probably why also when I meet someone who is wife material, after a while I start to get bored of her. I've had too much and perhaps it's ruined me to a bit. Time will tell...

This was good question to post...

Post: #28

I would actually argue that this may be lingering Blue Pill baggage manifested as a crisis of conscience. Our hard-coded, hard-wired Blue Pill past lives on in so many mysterious and unpredictable ways.

This Blue Pill part of you is still actively running under the idea that marriage+children is the ultimate end all be all. But the Red Pill part of you is in conflict with this way of thinking. So you have to realize why this conflict exists.

Even to an ultra alpha, marriage+children can still be Ok. But when you meet these girls who are "good looking, sweet, good family, class, money, would be a great mother, the kind of girl you actually would marry etc" your Red Pill self kicks in to counter the initial Blue Pill desire of marriage+children (as we now relate the desire for marriage/children with Blue Pill mentality).

And this is the great struggle of our time: we forsake the notion of an LTR when we turn from blue to red because feminism has forced us to associate the marriage+children lifestyle with being Blue Pill (destruction of home/family unit). And that IS where feminism has really fucked with our heads. The fact is that marriage+children can also be Red Pill/Alpha.

In your case, you've probably just kept your engine running too hot for too long. Your whole lifestyle is based around pulling chicks for the one night. Of course you're going to have issues with any prospect of commitment

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I decided to start a new thread because I was getting this other thread: /thread-25459-...#pid483612 off topic.

I said this, and I would like to know your guys thoughts:

Quote:Does this ever happen to you guys:

You meet a great girl (good looking, sweet, good family, class, money, would be a great mother, the kind of girl you actually would marry etc) and after you date her a while you completely lose sexual attraction to her.

Am I alone on this one?

MikeCF gave some great insights already.

This has really been a "problem" for me. It has happened to me at least three times in my life where I meet a phenomenal girl, and I really get into her.

But once I put her in the "potential wife/potential mother of my children" role, I lose all sexual attraction to her.

Keep in mind, she is the same girl, didn't get fat, nothing like that. Hell, I like her even more than ever. But then I am not sexually attracted to her.

Is this normal?

Is there anyway around this?

Or if you do meet a girl like this to have kids with, do you just have to cheat?

Is that the only option?

Any thoughts/insights would be greatly appreciated.

Post: #29

Have had this 'dilemma' since I can remember. I've had 3 relationships where the girls were great
wifey material and ironically went on to marry immediately after me and are happily married last time I checked.

I married the Game. Doesn't mean I can't get married one day, but I know I'll never be monogamous. It's simply not natural for me to be.

I think a solution is to have a main chick and your side girls. You get stability + variety.

Lastly, let's not lie, the allure of a sexy slut in a club or lounge with her bedroom eyes is extremely tantalizing and offers a 'high' that I think destroys any drug. The girl who you KNOW is good for you long term is safe and therefore boring.

Post: #30

The Italians have it figured out. You wife up and then have side dishes, on the DL so that the fabric of society can be maintained.

Women are all about the community. You violate that, and you disrespect their nature.

Whatever happens, you have to keep their community vibe good.

They know in the back of their mind that your are with other women, but you do it with class, so it is ok.

Post: #31

(07-09-2013 02:23 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  The girl who you KNOW is good for you long term is safe and therefore boring.

You're referring to an Alpha Male and a Beta Female?

Post: #32

(07-09-2013 04:25 PM)soup Wrote:  The Italians have it figured out. You wife up and then have side dishes, on the DL so that the fabric of society can be maintained.

Women are all about the community. You violate that, and you disrespect their nature.

Whatever happens, you have to keep their community vibe good.

They know in the back of their mind that your are with other women, but you do it with class, so it is ok.

Yeah you're right. It's a lot of working cheating though. And it can blow up in your face if you're not careful.

The Italian guys that I know do exactly what you said. They keep up the family man image and go to all family social gatherings. The problem is the side pussy they get is usually a rub'n tug from the Asian massage parlor or just straight up hookers from Backpage. Not very Alpha if you ask me. It's not exactly like it looks on the Sopranos.

Post: #33

I'm not sure what the answer to your dilemma is, G.

I do know that unlike many of the men on this forum, I do appreciate relationships with females. I enjoy having female friends. I cook meals for female friends, I spend quality time with female friends, I give them advice and listen to their problems. I have grown this way because it helps me relate to and understand women and because female interactions are something I enjoy outside of just sex.

When I'm dating a girl I don't mind if she sleeps over most of the time and I enjoy having a naked female sleeping on my chest or little-spooned into my embrace. My friends with benefits I actually enjoy just doing friend-type stuff with her from time to time and don't have to fuck to enjoy my time with her.

I don't know exactly where I'm going with this, but I can definitely see losing sexual attraction for a woman and not wanting it that much. It's not bad, it just means you're in a different stage in your relationship with her. Just gotta deal with the current reality like most of life.

Post: #34

(07-09-2013 02:23 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  ........a sexy slut in a club or lounge with her bedroom eyes is extremely tantalizing and offers a 'high' that I think destroys any drug...

I'm not lying when I say a girl with no makeup on, cruising around on her bicycle is a whole world more attractive to me than someone who wants to hang around in an alcohol-centered environment, where everyone has the same shallow conversations over and over again.

I presume (sometimes incorrectly I'm sure) she's emotionally shallow and within 3 days of banging her she would show herself to be completely without anything passionate or interesting about her, and to be actually more an extension of her iPhone than her iPhone is an extension of her.

Post: #35

Like many other things on RVF....glad to know I'm not the only one.

Post: #36

(07-10-2013 03:09 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 02:23 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  ........a sexy slut in a club or lounge with her bedroom eyes is extremely tantalizing and offers a 'high' that I think destroys any drug...

I'm not lying when I say a girl with no makeup on, cruising around on her bicycle is a whole world more attractive to me than someone who wants to hang around in an alcohol-centered environment, where everyone has the same shallow conversations over and over again.

I presume (sometimes incorrectly I'm sure) she's emotionally shallow and within 3 days of banging her she would show herself to be completely without anything passionate or interesting about her, and to be actually more an extension of her iPhone than her iPhone is an extension of her.

Show me a girl on a bike by the beach during the day and I'll show you the same girl at the club at night. I would say 95-98% of attractive girls between 21-25 go out at night.

Don't let daily activities you see a girl doing cause you to pedastalize her.

Post: #37

(07-09-2013 02:23 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  Have had this 'dilemma' since I can remember. I've had 3 relationships where the girls were great
wifey material and ironically went on to marry immediately after me and are happily married last time I checked.

I was skyping with my ex the other day and she was talking about how it feels to be pregnant by another man when she always thought it would be my baby she would have.

Then she went on to talk about how the women who have loved me the most ended up married, pregnant, or both soon after being in a relationship with me.

Not sure what to make of that, but I know it ties in to commitment issues. Not that I cant commit to a woman, I just cant commit in all the ways they want. Mostly monogamy, but also children and her family.

I need to know that her family is going to good. I come from a tight family that is very close and to think about having in laws or a mother in law I didnt like around my children would be a nightmare.

Post: #38

(07-11-2013 08:54 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 03:09 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 02:23 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  ........a sexy slut in a club or lounge with her bedroom eyes is extremely tantalizing and offers a 'high' that I think destroys any drug...

I'm not lying when I say a girl with no makeup on, cruising around on her bicycle is a whole world more attractive to me than someone who wants to hang around in an alcohol-centered environment, where everyone has the same shallow conversations over and over again.

I presume (sometimes incorrectly I'm sure) she's emotionally shallow and within 3 days of banging her she would show herself to be completely without anything passionate or interesting about her, and to be actually more an extension of her iPhone than her iPhone is an extension of her.

Show me a girl on a bike by the beach during the day and I'll show you the same girl at the club at night. I would say 95-98% of attractive girls between 21-25 go out at night.

Don't let daily activities you see a girl doing cause you to pedastalize her.

I don't know if I'm pedastalizing.

The more important question is are they all out to fuck players, and incapable of falling in love, like players are?

Post: #39

I hear ya...

My last girlfriend woulda made a great wife and she loved me. But damn, i craved the game. I got bored.

It is what it is I guess.

Post: #40

(07-09-2013 07:43 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 12:31 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  didn't roosh write an article about it. in order to become faithful and invested to one girl you have to kill all your alpha/player beliefs are replace them with beta,

Link?

--------

I just read about the Madonna–whore complex.

I don't think that really fits me.

Quote:Freud argued that the Madonna–whore complex is caused by oedipal castration fears which arise when a man experiences the affection he once felt for his mother with women he now sexually desires. In order to manage this anxiety, the man categorizes women into two groups: women he can admire and women he finds sexually attractive. Whereas the man loves women in the former category, he despises and devalues the latter group.

I don't really despise and devalue the latter group. I like them too.

Quote:This earlier theory is based not on oedipal-based castration anxiety but on man's primary hatred of women, stimulated by the child’s sense that he had been made to experience intolerable frustration and/or narcissistic injury at the hands of his mother. According to this theory, in adulthood the boy-turned-man seeks to avenge these mistreatments through sadistic attacks on women who are stand-ins for mother.

I have zero hatred of women.

Quote:According to Freudian psychology, this complex often develops when the sufferer is raised by a cold and distant mother.

My Mother was the opposite of that.

"I just read about the Madonna–whore complex.

I don't think that really fits me." Yes, from your forum persona I never thought you would suffer from M/W complex in strict pathologic sense, hence I wrote "some aspect of said dynamics." Never the less, I think the dynamic is there and, to some extent, influences our interaction with girls we dig. The solutions are, I think, be a Alpha/Beta and take the risk or just Marry the game like McQueen stated.

Post: #41

(07-09-2013 01:10 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  I would actually argue that this may be lingering Blue Pill baggage manifested as a crisis of conscience. Our hard-coded, hard-wired Blue Pill past lives on in so many mysterious and unpredictable ways.

This Blue Pill part of you is still actively running under the idea that marriage+children is the ultimate end all be all. But the Red Pill part of you is in conflict with this way of thinking. So you have to realize why this conflict exists.

[...]

In your case, you've probably just kept your engine running too hot for too long. Your whole lifestyle is based around pulling chicks for the one night. Of course you're going to have issues with any prospect of commitment

Good points, though I'm going to differ.

I cannot speak for G, however as for myself, I do not think a desire to have a long-term partner / wife / family is Blue Pill. The Blue Pill as I understand it is a lie, indeed the Big Lie, we've been told about women and relationships. The actual women and relationships are not Blue Pill, they are something you can perceive and live / manage either the Blue Pill or Red Pill way.

Can a player lifestyle damage one's capability to enjoy LTR or being a family man? Possibly, though if you really want it, you will make it work..

Post: #42

(07-10-2013 03:09 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 02:23 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  ........a sexy slut in a club or lounge with her bedroom eyes is extremely tantalizing and offers a 'high' that I think destroys any drug...

I'm not lying when I say a girl with no makeup on, cruising around on her bicycle is a whole world more attractive to me than someone who wants to hang around in an alcohol-centered environment, where everyone has the same shallow conversations over and over again.

I presume (sometimes incorrectly I'm sure) she's emotionally shallow and within 3 days of banging her she would show herself to be completely without anything passionate or interesting about her, and to be actually more an extension of her iPhone than her iPhone is an extension of her.

I am going to endorse this view, knowing full well the risks of "not every girl is like that" argument. Because some in fact aren't.

Post: #43

I think it's normal even for blue pill guys. Before I discovered game, I bounced from LTR to LTR. The best girl I dated was a cute, trilingual pianist who loved to cook. She was decent in bed too, but I never could get into it. It can't be explained.

Post: #44

You know once you've done this for a long enough time I think it almost ruins your ability to be in a regular relationship again.

I was out this weekend with a girl I've been off and on with for a couple of months, she's moving soon and could sense "I didn't care".

Needless to say she was spot on.

My brain is just wired to b-line it as fast as possible to the hook up and moving on after that.

I agree with theG that it brings up a lot of questions, I just brush them under the rug. No real point though, once you know the truth you know it's going to pass within a couple of days.

"Sad but true" I guess.

Post: #45

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Does this ever happen to you guys:

You meet a great girl (good looking, sweet, good family, class, money, would be a great mother, the kind of girl you actually would marry etc) and after you date her a while you completely lose sexual attraction to her.

Am I alone on this one?

MikeCF gave some great insights already.

This has really been a "problem" for me. It has happened to me at least three times in my life where I meet a phenomenal girl, and I really get into her.

But once I put her in the "potential wife/potential mother of my children" role, I lose all sexual attraction to her.

Keep in mind, she is the same girl, didn't get fat, nothing like that. Hell, I like her even more than ever. But then I am not sexually attracted to her.

Is this normal?

Is there anyway around this?

Or if you do meet a girl like this to have kids with, do you just have to cheat?

I very recently had this problem with a girl I was going out with. I saw legitimate potential in her, but as I grew during the relationship and improved myself over 1.5 years, I found myself less and less attracted to her.

She kept herself in great shape, long legs, tight body, nice ass, but I simply started to crave variety. I cheated on her once, and broke up with her to pursue a couple other girls who were more attractive (but less LTR potential).

It's been too long to the point where that door has closed now, (she found a beta that showers her with affection and her ego has inflated) but I am having the same doubts as you. I have found and been with more attractive girls, but I am not sure if these girls have the same potential.

Try to focus on what went wrong in the relationship, and why you felt you had to break out. You may be putting her on a pedestal once you want to wife her, or you may be scared of getting 'oneitis'.

I think the wife/mistress route guys are talking about is probably a good idea. Go on some business trips and get it out of your system, that's what would work for me, but I did not lose all sexual attraction to the girl, just some tapered off.

Post: #46

(07-15-2013 04:45 PM)RustyShackleford Wrote:  It's been too long to the point where that door has closed now, (she found a beta that showers her with affection and her ego has inflated) but I am having the same doubts as you. I have found and been with more attractive girls, but I am not sure if these girls have the same potential.

Yeah, it is kind of strange (or maybe not so strange) that they almost always end up with "betas".

Post: #47

Very tough question. I don't really count my relationships from when I was younger, although I was with some great women, but I was young and inexperienced in life. The thing is that when I was younger I think that I had more of an idealized version of love, romance, and marriage. It was when I was younger that I dreamed of the married life with my then girlfriends, kids, the whole 9 yards...

As you get older, you start to see things for what they are. I am 41 now, but still very much into the game. On the one hand, I have friends who were the ultimate players who I never thought I'd see married. They fell. Some are happy, some not. I think that they wanted the stability of a partner, and more importantly, the chance to have a family. Nothing wrong with that. Some regretted it after the fact, despite the fact that they love their kids to death.

I had the chance to marry 2 great girls. One is married now to somebody else, and the other I am sure must be married. Both very pretty, good bodies, professional girls. I dated both of them for a total of 3 years, back to back. I lived with both of them for 1 year. I remember being in my bed, in the same position with both of them, when I realized that I just couldn't do it. I saw them more like I saw my sister, than sexual partners. I tried to fight against it, until I just couldn't lie to myself any longer. Both of them would have made excellent wives and mothers. Beyond that, both of them had their own money and did not expect a free ride. One of them even comes from a very wealthy Swiss family.

As I've gotten older, I suppose I've gotten more selfish. Selfish with my time. Selfish with my hard earned money. I want to enjoy my life. I'm not getting any younger. I love the possibility of being able to fuck multiple girls guilt free, and have no real responsibilities toward them. Call it superficial. Works for me. Who's to say that's any worse then getting involved in a marriage/long term relationship just for stability/kids, when you are miserable on the inside? Not even miserable, but just "blah", or "ok". Is one thing better than the other?

You have to figure out what you want. That may change daily, monthly, or yearly. But I don't think you have to over-analyze it, or feel bad for it. It is what it is. Many men like the variety of fucking different girls. My father who is the greatest guy in the world had an affair. Several affairs at that! No matter how great the girl, or how sweet the p, you WILL get tired of them sooner or later. That's life. It's up to every guy to determine if the other things the relationship brings to your life are worth you staying around or not. That may be companionship, money, kids, etc..., whatever. Or you just may have a strong conscience that you can't shake that tells you it's your responsilibity to stick around. Some guys feel the need to take care of girls. I feel sorry for those kinds of guys, because they must be miserable as shit.

I may not have the stability of many guys, and I may be alone in my old age, but I'm going down swinging. I'm still having fun, in shape, lots of energy, and some cash in my pocket. I made the ultimate investment this year to make sure I don't get trapped...a vasectomy. I finally feel like I'm 100% good to go. Settling is not an option for me!

Post: #48

It's perfectly normal. All girls have the same thing to offer and once you get it they're basically buying your time with their unwavering loyalty and submissiveness. If they can't offer that then there's no point in keeping them around.

Post: #49

Won't this happen with any woman if you're fucking her long enough? I've experienced it in all of my LTRs. Variety is a motherfucker. I think that it might only seem to happen with wife material chicks, because the others aren't going to have enough staying power or spend enough time with you to get to the point where sexual habituation sets in. The cold part is that after they're gone for a while, the sex appeal comes back, and you feel like an idiot for not appreciating/enjoying the sex as much as you could have when you had easy access to it.

Anyway, I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't. I haven't figured this one out either. Maybe main dish side piece is the way to go? Maybe try to spend a few weeks apart every once in a while?

Post: #50

(07-05-2013 02:54 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Thanks MikeCF.

Yeah, this is literally f*cking with my head.

It is heavy, because it uproots everything you "think" you are about.

It is like you don't even know who you are or what you want in life.

I really don't like it.

G - I wonder how I missed this thread. The RAW lust is one thing and LOVE is another.

I went through a lot of complex feelings and awareness and separation between Love, Lust, Infatuation, Caring etc.. Mix of it all in varying ratios and dynamic.

For a moment forget about her and become aware of what all is happening inside of you.

What we feel, how we feel is all a game of SUBTLE ENERGIES in our Chakras.

People can give you the Biochemistry explanation cooked by the recent 50 years of western medecine..

Or You look into the ancient sciences of Subtle Body and Energies inside of us.

You can read more and more about Chakras and become aware of how the energy flows up and down in chakras.

e.g. Base of Spine chakra: Survival, Inertia, etc.
2nd Chakra: Raw Lust, Sexuality, Creativity etc.
3rd Chakra: Navel ...
Solar Plexus
Heart Chakra: Love, Fear, etc.

Your energies change and maybe that is when you think of this woman as more than just a Sexual Object (2nd chakra) and your feelings for her go to Heart Chakra.. (more satisfying, better feeling, always better feeling than just raw lust)..
The positive is.. the times you do have sex it can have deeper sensual and gratifying overall feeling..

Again the flavor changes.. it goes from Raw Street Tacos to Fine Dining.. to Home cooked mother made favorite meal.

Each are tasty and fill you up but have different feelings.

Let me leave you with a little lovely piece of wisdom - 'The mind seeks the new, the heart seeks the old'.

What it means.. you will always want to try new things and they will excite you... that is the MIND.. you need some of that.. so Newness with the person you have to create.. instead of looking at them as old..

At the level of HEART.. you will miss old friends, family, and things that took deeper seat in you/ your heart/ consciousness.

Again.. its subtle.. and needs a bunch of internal stuff to sort through... I had this happen big time when I was doing this hot girl doggy style, and was really excited and almost ready to come.. and could not.. had some wierd disconnect my own self and a part of me felt empty and a part was missing the love I felt for someone else before..