Post: #1

http://www.techpageone.com/business/stud...dGf4ZyPx2E


First comment slams the entire field, says don't go into it.

Other comments are by women lamenting poor management and being shunned.

One female warns of foreigners from male dominated cultures making things worse.


One called io has this:

Interesting replies above, and when I was younger, I used to assign blame to the factors mentioned above as well. Now, I have more perspective. There is actually an influx of young female talent every year in high tech, but their ranks thin out quickly. Many either head towards management, or simply look somewhere else. After being subjected to the biases the PP mentioned, those women who managed to forge ahead, will at some point start a family. Chances are, they will have found a great spouse, someone responsible, bright and with an equally sparkling career. Problem. In many STEM jobs, the salaries are sufficient to support a family on a single income. Many folks in the industry are men, with home maker wives. They can afford to stay late and sometimes skip vacations. They can also demand the same from their employees. The problem for many women is that a family cannot survive with two parents away from home for 10 hours a day each. And since the father usually makes more (usual pay bias), it’s easy to fall into the more traditional roles after a few heroic years of effort.

Notice how there are hardly any principal software engineers that are women? By the time their skills reached that level, other obligations started to apply the pressure. And high tech jobs are unforgiving.

So if you want to see more women in STEM career, the machismo of over-scheduled projects has got to stop. It’s not a matter of brains or even of education. The fact is, there are not enough mid-career choices for the women who currently train for STEM careers. Why would I encourage my daughter to follow such a narrowly focused education when I know that her career choices down the line will dwindle to a trickle?

This is not about giving omen a pass and a shorter day. It’s about distributing work evenly, so that both women AND men can attend that band concert after school, and creating a culture where such activities do not jeopardize your reputation and career.

Post: #2

...and men avoid nursing careers.

In other news, grass is green.

Post: #3

Translation: I don't like that my career is metered on things like ability and time spent in the office.

You can have a family and work in STEM, but your career will be stunted much in the same way I'd expect a man who leaves for a 2 year paternity leave to.

Engineers are few remaining real bastion of male ingenuity. Let the ladies in, but keep 'em held to the same standards as men. If you can't compete than boo hoo.

Post: #4

Most women that go into STEM fields in college go to become teachers.

The whole notion 'less women in X means bias and discrimination' is a joke.

Post: #5

There were approximately 4 bangable girls that started their engineering study at the same time I did. Too bad I didn't have any game when I saw these girls on a regular basis..

I want to add more to this, but I can't think of anything. It's just not a subject that needs any attention.

Post: #6

Heh who is "Jim Mac"? Some good comments there.

Post: #7

Men avoid it too. I considered quitting my STEM major at least once. Probably 40-50% of my class dropped out to study english or geography or some such nonsense.

Post: #8

I was in STEM classes almost exclusively for two years in college. Last semester of the last year I took an education class.

The walk up the hill to the education building the first day of class was like surmounting Mt. Hotness.

I had forgotten that there were hot women at the university.

I went out with one super hot Asian woman who failed O chem 3 times, which cut her med school chances considerably. She ended up getting a job as a phlebotomist. They actually put her on the commercial for the "Sell your blood here" clinic. I felt sorry for her because I'm guessing every bum who needed dough for his precious bodily fluids would hit on her. I bet some guys saw the commercial and went there to see her she was so hot.

Second hottest woman in STEM classes I took kept trying to hook herself an engineer husband. All she cared about was future cash flow and that the guy was at least presentable.

Third hottest was cuckoo for cocoa puffs and I don't know how she ended up. She liked guys a lot though.

Fourth hottest bailed for some social science.

After that it was slim pickin's.

Post: #9

The article is such a sham. The studies and facts are there, just bent to align with gender politics. I have two problems with the article:

1. The author tries to equate 'skill' with 'math and science test scores'. This is a huge glaring non sequitur. Women are not developing an interest in math and science skill, they are just testing better. I wonder why. Boys are dropping out completely and propping average female scores.

2. “These choices could be due to social structures that are pervasive and lifelong and that are shaping their preferences and ideas about what girls do versus what boys do. One of the most fascinating questions to answer is why and how some females resist cultural expectations and do pursue degrees in engineering.”

This is bullshit heresay. These choices could be due to fucking unicorns and Lisa Frank.

Post: #10

This commenter nailed the female replies pretty well:

don says:
06/23/2013 at 1:14 am
The female responses here are interesting – especially given the current bias strongly against boys. They are interesting, too, for their content” :”…haled”. (Nope, “”hailed”), and “I SCREAMED…”, as well as “Gender discrimination (against males) – too bad!” Yep, interesting for ignorance, emotion, bias, and foolishness.

What do you suppose would have happened if a male instructor had “SCREAMED” at girls – or minority students? Or told girls “Yes I’m discriminating – too bad.”

Bit of a chip, there? Covering some fundamental incompetence? Or just insecure?

This nation is supposed to be a meritocracy. Where *actual* bias exists, efforts should be made to negate it. Otherwise, let kids learn, help everyone do their best, (no matter race, religion, or gender) – - – and stop the whining.

Post: #11

There is a big difference between science class and science workplace.

The STEM recruitment efforts do everything they can to hide the reality of the STEM workplace from the future wage slaves the companies want to suck in.

"Spend 4-5 brutal years that should be some of your best with your nose in a book. Engineers go to work, then got tossed after 20 years or so. Scientists can work now and be treated like a beast of burden or they can be an indentured servant for a professor. Should you choose this path you'll be putting in 60-90 hour weeks for 4-8 years and will leave the professor's lab under his control for years to come because of the letter of recommendation issue. The degree will turn off some employers because they think you'll be bored with the job. If you do get a job you'll be obsolete after 5-20 years and will be discarded. No effort will be made to help you retrain because we'll just recruit more young people who don't have a clue about what they're getting into."

Anybody who thinks that science is about discoveries is naive. It's a business now, like any other. Autistic jerks, racism, discrimination, alcoholics, druggies, deviant sex maniacs are your coworkers. Or you get lucky and get SWPL or the Most Boring Man in the World. Your bosses steal your ideas and claim them as your own.

No wonder they have to outsource to foreign lands to get workers. No Americans want to do farm work either.

If you like STEM go into a startup where you know the founders and trust them.

Post: #12

JimNortonFan - Excellent post right here.

Post: #13

(07-01-2013 10:42 AM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  So if you want to see more women in STEM career, the machismo of over-scheduled projects has got to stop.

So to get more women in stem, she thinks companies need to purposely become less productive? Interesting ...

Post: #14

These kind of articles are pure BS. In Canada, one of our mainstream newspapers, Globe and Mail has an article at least once a week about women facing "discrimination" in the workplace. They churn out articles about discrimination, male-dominated workplaces, and the "poor women" like jezebel talks about rape culture every single day.

Funny thing is that when hell froze over and the Toronto School Board actually said that they need to hire more men, they wrote editorials saying how this was "problematic" when they actively support quotas and discrimination against men to hire more women in the corporate world.

I always reply to these sort of articles and have people agreeing with me when I say I will agree with these articles when there are active movements to get more men into nursing and teaching: two professions dominated by women and at least in Canada they are really well paid. Moreover, where is the push to get more women into the dirty jobs like plumbing, garbage collectors, or other physical labour jobs? Women just want to shooed in to the corporate world and cry about discrimination in these lucrative fields.

Post: #15

(07-01-2013 03:13 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 10:42 AM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  So if you want to see more women in STEM career, the machismo of over-scheduled projects has got to stop.

So to get more women in stem, she thinks companies need to purposely become less productive? Interesting ...

It's arguable whether the over-scheduled projects she refers to actually increase productivity (to say nothing of profit). But then it's arguable whether she's referring to an observed (or observable) phenomenon or just ranting ambiguously.

Post: #16

All prospective and current STEM grad schoolers go here:


http://rezaghadiri.net/

Post: #17

(07-01-2013 03:13 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 10:42 AM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  So if you want to see more women in STEM career, the machismo of over-scheduled projects has got to stop.

So to get more women in stem, she thinks companies need to purposely become less productive? Interesting ...

Yeah, most feminists want the bar lowered all around. They're not content with just sitting back letting success happen if they feel that women aren't digging their meathooks into it. They want to lean in.