Post: #76

(06-30-2013 09:51 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  There are really two different components that go into how you're perceived racially, at least for those that are fairer skinned with straighter hair. There are your looks, and how you were brought up culturally.

A Spanish woman I used to see out in California was a prime example of how your looks are perceived, and how it changes when other factors present themselves. She's a petite blond, with hazel/green eyes. When American women see her, they perceive her to be one of them. But the moment she speaks, they immediately react differently to her, because it becomes apparent that she ISN'T one of them. For this reason, most of her friends aren't Americans, and she largely still considers herself a Spaniard living in America, even though all three of her kids were born here.

Ive had a similar experience Timoteo. I remember a year ago I met up with three friends in college for dinner at a restaurant in Chicago. One girl was Argentinian, another girl was from Spain and one guy was from Mexico but was of European descent. So we are there at the restaurant talking in Spanish when this stupid American girl who was our server comes to our table and says "I know what you guys are talking, is it French?" We looked at her with confusion and said "No, its spanish". She then goes on a temper tantrum and tells us "No, you guys are talking some European language because I know what spanish sounds like", and we just told her "um, well its spanish, sorry". She did gave us a dirty and nasty look like she was offended. We were very shocked.

Post: #77

The real problem is it is simply not cool to be white in America, so no light-skinned Latinos or blacks want to identify as white. Add to that the fact that the "one drop rule" actually existed and that the government has an incentive to track racial groups accurately, and you have a situation where people will naturally identify with their "exotic side" more than their white side.

Like a black friend used to say to me in high school: Nobody wants to be a cracker.

Post: #78

(06-30-2013 11:52 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  The real problem is it is simply not cool to be white in America, so no light-skinned Latinos or blacks want to identify as white. Add to that the fact that the "one drop rule" actually existed and that the government has an incentive to track racial groups accurately, and you have a situation where people will naturally identify with their "exotic side" more than their white side.

Like a black friend used to say to me in high school: Nobody wants to be a cracker.

I see where you're coming from as far as cultural cache goes, but when the U.S. Census comes around every ten years or when social scientists come knocking, most Hispanic people in America want to identify as Caucasian.

In other words, they identify more as European than as Amerindian or African.

Middle Eastern people and South Asians in the U.S. can also exhibit the wanna-be white attitude. This is why the Indian race troll exists. It's understandable in a way - the old lexicon of racial categories, which divided mankind into three races: Caucasian, Negroid, and Mongoloid, put Turkish, Arab, Persian, and Indian peoples in the Caucasian category.

Lighter skinned black guys don't want to be white anymore, that's true. A few generations ago, they would have aspired to pass. The black literary critic Stanley Crouch had a great story of seeing an apparently white guy on a train as a kid. His dad then gestured to the man to his son and said something like:

"See that guy over there?"

And young Stanley said: "That white guy?"

And his father replied: "He's not white! He knows, that *I* know, that he's not white."

And Crouch all these decades later recounts how mystified he is to this day about such distinctions.

Post: #79

(07-01-2013 12:11 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 11:52 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  The real problem is it is simply not cool to be white in America, so no light-skinned Latinos or blacks want to identify as white. Add to that the fact that the "one drop rule" actually existed and that the government has an incentive to track racial groups accurately, and you have a situation where people will naturally identify with their "exotic side" more than their white side.

Like a black friend used to say to me in high school: Nobody wants to be a cracker.

I see where you're coming from as far as cultural cache goes, but when the U.S. Census comes around every ten years or when social scientists come knocking, most Hispanic people in America want to identify as Caucasian.

In other words, they identify more as European than as Amerindian or African.

Middle Eastern people and South Asians in the U.S. can also exhibit the wanna-be white attitude. This is why the Indian race troll exists. It's understandable in a way - the old lexicon of racial categories, which divided mankind into three races: Caucasian, Negroid, and Mongoloid, put Turkish, Arab, Persian, and Indian peoples in the Caucasian category.

Lighter skinned black guys don't want to be white anymore, that's true. A few generations ago, they would have aspired to pass. The black literary critic Stanley Crouch had a great story of seeing an apparently white guy on a train as a kid. His dad then gestured to the man to his son and said something like:

"See that guy over there?"

And young Stanley said: "That white guy?"

And his father replied: "He's not white! He knows, that *I* know, that he's not white."

And Crouch all these decades later recounts how mystified he is to this day about such distinctions.

The reason a lot identify as white is because of how complicated the US Census form can get for someone of mixed race, and especially for someone of Hispanic mixed race.

For instance, I am 7/8 Spanish and 1/8 Central American Indian. On the US Census form, there is no box for mestizo, so I have to first check the Hispanic box under ethnicity, and then I have to check both the white box AND the Native American - other box under the race category as well. Thus, on the US Census, I am classified as Hispanic, Amerindian and as "white" since there is only a convoluted way to claim that I am mestizo.

I think the US Census should include a box that says mestizo in the race categories, and this would make the "white" Hispanic numbers according to the US Census shrink dramatically.

Post: #80

(06-30-2013 05:45 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 05:32 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 05:25 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  If you are brunette and have a Latin name (or hell, even if you speak fluent Spanish), you are not "white" by White America.

That may be true, but from what I see on this forum and on boxing forums that I lurk...A lot of the ignorance is also perpetuated by black Americans and also the Latin Americans themselves, confused as to what they 'are' if you know what I mean. I.E "I'm not white, I'm Puerto Rican" etc.

To be honest, I think some of it (as evidenced in the Jessica Alba on George Lopez clip) is that 'white' is seen as uncool and status-quo, so they want no part of it, hence Alba's reaction and the SWPL crowd's response in hearing the ungodly news that she is a white person.

The best one was Mariah Carey asking George Lopez where the 'Latino' section was on the DNA test. I'd laugh if it wasn't such a tragic display of utter stupidity.

When I hear Mariah Carey blaring on about how having one drop of African blood makes you black, it doesn't really ring true. Is it a generational thing, or is she just attention whoring? Maybe in parts of the South that's the case, but not in the circles I travel in. Sure, people want to know what you are, but they're not running around saying "you're an octroon? You're as black as Manute Bol!"

Fair or not, the one drop rule is still pretty much in effect.
Mariah understands that the only thing that really matters is what "officialdom" thinks you are. your teachers, friends, employer, media, the police. Every biracial kid out there who can't pass as 100% White, gets reminded sooner rather than later that they are Black. Case in point, Tiger Woods.

If I was part of the European descended elite in any country in Latin America with sizable Amerindian and Black population, I would be against the "one drop" rule as well.

Post: #81

(06-30-2013 12:38 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  The thing is that you will not get discriminated in Argentina because there is very few mexican living in the country, and thus, perople still does not have a solid image of that nationality. You will be welcome, and you will be an interesting conversation topic, but it will not gave you unlimited access to pussy compared to anybody else.

Foe example, colombians were like that some years ago, but now, as there is a solid number of Colombians living in Buenos Aires, people have created a image of that nationality (colombians in BA beign or university students or thiefs (yeap, there is a noteworthy number of colombians doing crimes here in BA).

Sometimes that's all I need Mekorig:

Post: #82

(06-29-2013 12:21 AM)Hispanic_Reasoning Wrote:  

(06-28-2013 09:08 AM)Scarecr0w Wrote:  

(06-28-2013 04:40 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(06-28-2013 12:33 AM)Hispanic_Reasoning Wrote:  II don't consider myself Latino (an invention made by some french king who wanted to justify invading Mexico),

Not to hijack the subject but can you break that down a bit? I get annoyed by the PC surrounding the word "Latino" and how people will be offended if you say "Hispanic" instead.

Latino and Hispanic terms are cultural not racial. For example most people from quebec, argentina or uruguay have their roots in europe and are white, but they also fit the term latino.
Most bolivians, mexicans, peruvians,etc also fit the term latino, but they are not white, they are mostly from native american descent....
got the idea?

correction, most mexicans are of mixed ancestry while peruvians and bolivians are of the majority of cases, of amerindian ancestry.

Most mexicans are mixed but learning more to the amerindian side.

A lot of them caim to be mestizo in census but look mostly amerindian.

The same goes for peruvians.

Only guatemala and Bolivia self-recognize as majority amerindian countries, however I think Mexico and El salvador are pretty darn close.

Post: #83

Mestizo has a very broad spectrum, Colombian mestizo is generally different than Mexican mestizo (applies to every country). In Latin America, the white minority has always been the upper class, even with the occasional indigenous president like Morales or Humala.

So, the minority has more power, similar to South Africa in a way.

Post: #84

oh looky !!! another race thread !!!

Post: #85

(10-02-2013 07:08 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  oh looky !!! another race thread !!!

Haha. The rule is one cannot start a new one, but pre-existing threads can be opened up again.