Post: #1

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Where to Start Your Startup – Best Value Destinations

http://fundersandfounders.com/where-to-s...tinations/

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The number two reason why startups fail is running out of cash. How can you make sure your cash does not run out before you make money?

Recently, I visited Happy Farm, a startup incubator in a small Ukrainian village. Most people do not think about a village as the land of opportunity. So what are startup entrepreneurs doing in a village? Two things – actually working (as opposed to enjoying city life) and reducing their burn rate. And Happy Farm successfully attracts people even from outside Ukraine. But why go abroad to do a startup?

Why Go?

Arguably, if you know what you want to build, you could start your startup anywhere. You could just take your laptop, sit down in your bedroom, shut the door, and build your product. Done. Seems straightforward. But there are good reasons to go somewhere else.

San Francisco – Sure, If You Already Have Your Product

The top place startup founders want to go is San Francisco. Three reasons: more access to capital, early adopter community, and the startup flow. Here is the problem: if you get here without your beta ready, you are will not benefit from the investors and the early adopters since you have nothing to pitch investors and nothing for early adopters to adopt yet. So the flow…again, even if you go to a lot of events and meet the best people – you still won’t be able to show them your beta. So why come to San Francisco? Perhaps, a different perspective? Inspiration? Fair enough. But it will cost you. San Francisco’s 1-bedroom apartments are around $2,000 per month. Monthly cost of living is at least $3,000. And while you are paying $3,000 you are still sitting in your apartment and, hopefully, building the beta. And if you are not, you really should be. That means to bootstrap even for 3 months you need roughly $10,000. Now maybe you want to look at other places to build your product?

Looking for the Perfect Place

The cheapest place may be your parents’ basement or your friend’s couch. These real rock-bottom deals will cost you freedom, though. What we are looking for here, then, is the best value for your money. A comfortable hassle-free life for less than $1000/month.

Recently, as I traveled from San Francisco to London, Dubai and then India, it became clear that seed-stage startups can have a lot more runway in some locations than others. As I finally settled into an Indian village to focus on my own project, I wanted to find out what other bootstrapping-friendly locations there are in the world.

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Why travel when bootstrapping?

Scenario 1. The Savings Burner. You quit your job. You are burning through your savings account. Say, you have $6,000 in the bank. In San Francisco, you will burn through it in 2 months (even without renting office space). In India you can comfortably bootstrap for 6 months (eating out every meal, and even having a cleaner).

Scenario 2. The Get-Away Founder. You want to escape your “normal life” ( your routine, your family, etc.) There are two main benefits to moving. 1. The Immigrant Effect – as a newcomer you won’t know about limitations placed on members in that new society. You are going to act as if those limitations don’t exist. This is one of the reasons immigrants tend to be successful entrepreneurs. 2. The other reason is that your family and friends, neighbors and colleagues, and every other aspect of your “normal life” will not be there – so you can do the abnormal thing – work on your startup, without them constantly checking up on you.

Where to go to start your startup?

There is a difference between business-friendly countries, and bootstrap-friendly countries. If you want to know which countries are in general more conducive to business, World Bank index does the job. But it includes a lot of things that a seed-stage startup does not need – like registering the entity, taxes, etc. Also, we are not talking about fund-raising here. For fundraising, the U.S. and the UK are by far the best, but before you get to the funding stage, you need to build something.

Here are the criteria that matter for choosing your bootstrapping location:

Low burn rate (low rent, low food prices) under $1000/month
Fast and cheap internet
Developed local infrastructure – transportation, access to food and consumer services
Generous visa policy (at least a 3-months visa initially)
In short, the place should be cheap, hassle-free, and comfortable. And it turns out some places can let you have your cake and eat it too.

Startup Bootstrap – Best Value Countries

While the cheapest destinations may be Congo and Iraq, the point is not dirt-cheap existence, but the most bang for your bootstrap buck. $1,700 a month for broadband in Cuba, anyone? Not a joke. Best value usually comes from 3 things: 1. The economy is still developing (or temporarily distressed, like in Portugal); 2. There is a lot of competition, so businesses want to serve you better; 3. There is a culture of good customer service.

Here is my list of the most startup bootstrap-friendly destinations. This is the first edition, and suggestions are welcome.

ASIA

India (Bangalore) – the cheapest city out of the top 20 startup ecosystems in the world, ranked by Startup Genome. The visa is for 6 months. $1000 per month will buy you a very comfortable lifestyle.

Malaysia – visa-free for 3 months for most countries, top-notch infrastructure in big cities. Singapore is just over the bridge.

Thailand (Chiang Mai) – a known heaven for e-entrepreneurs. Affordable, cultural, and exotic.

EUROPE

Bulgaria (Varna, Sofia ) – the best value for money in Europe. Varna is a resort town on the Black Sea, while Sofia has all the infrastructure and culture of any European capital.

Portugal (especially Porto) – since 2008 Portugal’s market has not yet recovered. Rent is affordable, while services are still up to European standards. Porto, by the way, is home of the Port wine.

Poland (Lublin) – competition is high among businesses, and the economy is up and coming. You will find quite a few developers here.

Macedonia (Skopje, Ohrid) – an off the beaten track country that offers services and scenery on par with other modern cities. Ohrid offers beautiful lakeside scenery.

CENTRAL & LATIN AMERICA

Nicaragua (outside Granada) – has become a trendy destination in the past 7 years, but most of the country outside the capital is a bargain.


Ecuador (Cuenca) – cultural, but developed. Cuenca is remarkable, both the scenery and comfort.

Mexico (interior) – while coastal Mexico is no longer cheap, there are plenty of cities in the interior that are.

MIDDLE EAST

Egypt (outside Cairo) – especially, due to the political situation the accommodation prices are low now. As long as you stay out of Cairo, there is not a lot to worry about.

Jordan (Amman) – modern, hassle-free, and rather Westernized. There are plenty of cafes and modern housing.

AFRICA

Morocco (Casablanca) – this year rated the 3rd most welcoming country for outsiders in the world, Morocco is deeply cultural and modern at the same time.

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I love Funders and Founders.

FYI I didn't write this, it's a repost.

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Post: #2

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Other spots they are missing that I would include here:

-Bangkok

-Bali

-Saigon

-Taipei

-Medellin

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Post: #3

Awesome. Presence of co-working spaces and startup/freelance community might be another factor.

Working in the library or a cafe, for example, just doesnt get me pumped and inspire me to take the riskier actions I need to be doing to succeed. Gotta be around other go-getters.

Bangalore is an interesting one... I think it would be pretty exciting to park up there for a couple of months.

Post: #4

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/techno...d=all&_r=0

"Hacker Hostels" - interesting concept and idea.

I don't know if I'd ever live in one of these places. I'm getting too used to cush living in emerging markets. I found a hacker hostel posting on San Francisco Airbnb listings, though.

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/472371

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/1089968

I've always been fascinated by San Francisco - particularly as the startup and innovation hub of the world. The steep costs of living and my high standard of living due to being in Asia are forcing me to keep it at arms length for now.

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Post: #5

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They mentioned Lublin, Poland on there. Anyone been? Comments?

There is a LOT of strong developer talent in Eastern Europe.

I've had only positive experiences working with Romanians. I don't know what Poles are like but I bet they are similar.

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Post: #6

Great post. What business you involved in youngmobileglobal? Apologies if you have already explained elsewhere or wish to keep under wraps.

Post: #7

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Web Design

E-commerce

Mobile Apps

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Post: #8

What Country/City do you live in at the moment YMG?

Post: #9

To that list id add the Philippines, southern China, Cambodia, the DR, interior 2nd and 3rd tier cities in Brasil. To me fun factor is important. Btw, you couldnt pay me to go to India.

Post: #10

VP, one of my close friends visited India and took a bunch of photos on his trip. He showed me them...I was in shock. The dead bodies in their water + their disgusting hygiene. He even told me that one of his friends passed out drunk on a beach and woke up with a bunch of dudes doing a jerk circle around him. I thought he was bullshitting, but he isn't the type of person that makes up things like this. Im sure the country is beautiful in some places, but I don't plan on visiting India either.

Post: #11

(06-23-2013 02:07 PM)InternetMarketer Wrote:  He even told me that one of his friends passed out drunk on a beach and woke up with a bunch of dudes doing a jerk circle around him.

LOL. Do Not Want

Post: #12

I spent a few days in Lublin a while back while Roosh was there.

I can't say I explored much in the way of business, strictly pleasure!

However the level of English was very good, people seemed well educated on the whole.

As a single, young man there's lots of nice feminine, pretty women to choose from.

The city itself is a bit drab and generic looking, but cost of living is very cheap.

Post: #13

I'm looking at moving my app dev company to Poland in the next year, aside from the lower living costs and the seemingly limitless amount of cheery Slavic 7s, it will mean I'll be able to hire twice as many programmers as I could in the UK.

The only things I need to sort out are legal-related. It's ridiculously difficult to find a business lawyer in Poland who speaks good English and isn't colluding with various other service providers.

Post: #14

YMG, may I ask what happened with your prevous startups? If I read here you had one in singapore and another in thailand? Maybe another in Brazil?

Lessons learned?

Post: #15

Spent one month in Sofia. Not hard to see myself living there, actually. Great restaurants, big city vibe.

Patience, persistence and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success.

Napoleon Hill

Post: #16

(06-23-2013 02:40 PM)dk902 Wrote:  I spent a few days in Lublin a while back while Roosh was there.


The city itself is a bit drab and generic looking, but cost of living is very cheap.

1.
That is a feature, not a bug.

Picturesque cities bring families spending tourist money and driving prices up, including the prices of dem hot bishes.

2.

If Northern California gives you a boner, as some SF fans have mentioned, I would suggest two ideas:

1) Go there before you're 40, it is so wealthy that youth-worship is exceptionally intense there. Also, I believe programming is a young man's game, like other languages, it is difficult to acquire fluency after a certain age. If you already know Ruby or whatever they want nowadays, that's different I wouldn't want to be learning a new programming language at 35 there.

2) Consider Sacramento. Very nice city with good culture, girls are less snobby than SF, and nice, pre-war studios can be had for 800-900 on Craigslist and there aren't armies of yuppies fighting for them.

Also, it's a very comfortable 90 minute Amtrak ride to SF downtown, one timed change to an Amtrak bus ( one ticket purchase does it, no second ticket purchase) There's outlets on the train, and slow internet.

Also, share houses in SF aren't too bad but will be screened hard by potential roommates.

Post: #17

(06-23-2013 01:24 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  To that list id add the Philippines, southern China, Cambodia, the DR, interior 2nd and 3rd tier cities in Brasil. To me fun factor is important. Btw, you couldnt pay me to go to India.

Cambodia - unless you want to whore or travel around the country, Cambodia gets boring real quick. I've been there too many times to count and spent weeks at a time there. You can only hit the bars, see the sights, and hang out on the river for so long. Then you're stuck twiddling your thumbs.

The PI - no way. I prefer Thais to Filipinos any day of the week. They're much more laid back and more my style.

(06-23-2013 02:07 PM)InternetMarketer Wrote:  VP, one of my close friends visited India and took a bunch of photos on his trip. He showed me them...I was in shock. The dead bodies in their water + their disgusting hygiene. He even told me that one of his friends passed out drunk on a beach and woke up with a bunch of dudes doing a jerk circle around him. I thought he was bullshitting, but he isn't the type of person that makes up things like this. Im sure the country is beautiful in some places, but I don't plan on visiting India either.

I'd visit India for the wildlife and the food, but I certainly would not want to live there. What about poon? You're going to game Indian chicks? I wouldn't want to bring my wife there as I'd have to watch her like a hawk so she doesn't have a dozen guys raping her.

(06-23-2013 06:59 PM)Avant-Garde Wrote:  YMG, may I ask what happened with your prevous startups? If I read here you had one in singapore and another in thailand? Maybe another in Brazil?

Lessons learned?

Singapore is another place I have been many times but would not want to live there. Something about the business-always atmosphere is irritating as hell. A couple of days for shopping or quick business is one thing, living there is another.

Also, Bangkok over Chiang Mai. The whole thing about Chiang Mai is that it's full of fucking foreigners trying to make a go of it. First, I've already succeeded in living in Thailand long-term, all over the country. Second, I didn't come to Thailand to live among foreigners in little America or little Australia or little Britain. For me, the Chiang Mai vibe is not to my liking. Like I've said before, I'll live in the jungle on my wife's land in Surat before I live in Chiang Mai.



Depending on a couple of projects I'm working on and whether my wife gets the raise she was told she would get (twice already), we may be spending quite a bit more time there. Lot's of positives - like peace and quiet, isolation, very few people around, readily accessible food right on our land, and few negatives - rain, isolation, and the internet connection can be iffy at times.

I would consider parts of Indonesia, Uruguay, the south of France, and a few others places in the world, but it will be a couple of years before we're set and can do so.

Post: #18

downtown Sacto is really nice, has great food and bars and a great music scene. Plus you are that much closer to Tahoe..

(06-23-2013 07:18 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 02:40 PM)dk902 Wrote:  I spent a few days in Lublin a while back while Roosh was there.


The city itself is a bit drab and generic looking, but cost of living is very cheap.

1.
That is a feature, not a bug.

Picturesque cities bring families spending tourist money and driving prices up, including the prices of dem hot bishes.

2.

If Northern California gives you a boner, as some SF fans have mentioned, I would suggest two ideas:

1) Go there before you're 40, it is so wealthy that youth-worship is exceptionally intense there. Also, I believe programming is a young man's game, like other languages, it is difficult to acquire fluency after a certain age. If you already know Ruby or whatever they want nowadays, that's different I wouldn't want to be learning a new programming language at 35 there.

2) Consider Sacramento. Very nice city with good culture, girls are less snobby than SF, and nice, pre-war studios can be had for 800-900 on Craigslist and there aren't armies of yuppies fighting for them.

Also, it's a very comfortable 90 minute Amtrak ride to SF downtown, one timed change to an Amtrak bus ( one ticket purchase does it, no second ticket purchase) There's outlets on the train, and slow internet.

Also, share houses in SF aren't too bad but will be screened hard by potential roommates.

Post: #19

I can attest first hand, that the only place to be if you are an engineer or on the business side in the internet business, right now is NYC.

Post: #20

(06-23-2013 06:59 PM)Avant-Garde Wrote:  YMG, may I ask what happened with your prevous startups? If I read here you had one in singapore and another in thailand? Maybe another in Brazil?

Lessons learned?

PM sent.

Post: #21

(06-23-2013 06:59 PM)Avant-Garde Wrote:  YMG, may I ask what happened with your prevous startups? If I read here you had one in singapore and another in thailand? Maybe another in Brazil?

Lessons learned?

Three total launched. Two are successfully running and one was a horrible and humiliating failure.

LESSONS LEARNED:

1. Avoid Married Partners

If possible, do not partner with someone who has a wife and kids, particularly if you get the impression that the wife wants to veto your venture. You will never win versus the wife.

2. Vet partners carefully to make sure that they are going to work out in the long run and that the person will be committed.

Do due diligence to make sure that if the person has recently left a high-level executive position at a large company, that your new startup does not breach any non-compete clauses in their former contract. This can destroy your startup in a single day. Or, more likely, it'll cause the situation to drag out for months while you burn through cash waiting. This is worse than the first scenario.

3. Get a CTO or Technical Partner

If you are going to be a tech company selling enterprise software, you NEED a CTO or technical partner on board from the start. You NEED "tech in your company's DNA" - do not think you can just ship a project off to India/Cebu and just become a tech company.

Do not be scared to hand over a chunk of your company to someone with technical expertise that you trust and know will be in it for the long haul. Better to own half of a giant pie than 100% of a shitty small unprofitable pie.

If you have to choose between personality/passion fit with your founder and your founder's technical expertise, go for the first. As long as your technical founder has a certain level of base experience and competence, you will be able to toil at your project/product until you pull it off. In contrast, someone highly skilled who is flaky/dishonest is poison. It's much more important that you and your partner are on the same wavelength, have the same goals, and work well together.

Business partnerships are like marriages, for better or for worse. You will spend many of your waking hours communicating, talking, arguing, and progressing together. Do not take this decision lightly.

A good way to test out if you can work well together is to launch a small project together to see if you guys can work together. This is arguably better than bullshitting over skype or picking up chicks. Deliver an actual small tangible project together to understand how you work. The way a guy acts when he's at the club and the way a guy acts when he's in work mode can be totally different. Test this out in real time with a small low-risk project.

4. Hubris and arrogance will be the death of you.

Personally and professionally. Underpromise and overdeliver. Do not come onto RVF and start a thread bragging about how amazing your idea is - all that you will accomplish is making yourself look like a giant douchebag and pissing a lot of people off. Also, I apologize for doing precisely that and apologize to all the people I probably pissed off in the process. Hopefully I've added enough value that I'm at a net positive here.

5. There are a LOT of talented and exceptionally intelligent men on RVF doing interesting things all over the world.

It is possible to find legitimate business partners on RVF. If not full-fledged startups/businesses, then just a small collaboration like a webinar, podcast, guest post, etc etc. Very often, it's guys who have 500 posts or under and were attracted to RVF for reasons that are NOT pickup related. Usually guys who find threads about international business or travel. Sometimes these guys turn into forum superstars. Samseau, Scotian, DK, VP, DonovanVC are guys off the top of my head.

6. Despite popular opinion, Singapore is not really a good startup hub.

It's prohibitively expensive and the culture is sort of sterile and the antithesis of a free-spirited maverick environment that encourages radical startup ideas. You will burn through cash there.

7. Health comes first. Do not sacrifice your health for business or you'll end up with neither. I learned this the hard way.

8. If you are prototyping or bootstrapping, choose SE Asia

Bangkok, Saigon, and Taipei seem to be the best spots for bootstrapping at the moment (in Asia). Especially if you are doing something digital and location independent. I can't speak for Saigon/Taipei personally but I know a lot of entrepreneurs in both of these spots who vouch for their location.

9. Cut negative people out of your life.

You can't afford to waste the mental/emotional energy on soul-sucking backstabbing scumbags who will distract you and talk shit about your behind your back. Think about the five people you spend the most time with per day. You are the average of these people. If they seem like people you aspire to be like, stick with them. If they seem like they will hold you back, you need to ruthlessly replace them with men who will challenge you into improving yourself.

If you are a C player, hang out with B players. If you are a B player, hang out with A players. They will subconsciously set your own personal standard for how you should be living, behaving, and achieving in life. Do not become complacent by being around a bunch of losers and trolls and feeling good about yourself because you are comparatively better than lowlifes. Surround yourself with successful people and you will push yourself hard to do the same.


10. HEALTH COMES FIRST. This is so important that it needed to be said twice.

11. Always be networking

The best opportunities and connections will not happen when you deliberately go to Toastmasters or corporate events and hang out with a bunch of grinning people who want to listen to themselves talk. It's going to be when the bus from Bangkok to Pattaya breaks down and you are sitting in the sweltering heat with a Dutch entrepreneur who introduces you to a cool new product or service.

It happens when you randomly meet the son of a Vietnamese/Chinese government official while you are kicking it at the Hainan Yacht Club to pick up high end chicks and are invited to do a drunken karaoke rendition of Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" and get invited to sit at their table.

Opportunities will spring up when you least suspect them. "Happy Accidents" is another good way to put it.


12. Outsource to automate, not solve problems

There will never be a situation in which you say "I have no idea how to solve this problem, so maybe if I send it to the Philippines or Argentina someone will solve it for me"

You should outsource processes/systems in your own business when you are already profitable and have a system down and need to replace yourself as a cog in the system. Not because you have no idea what to do and just need someone to bail you out of that particular quandary.

Do not hire until the VERY LAST MINUTE. Do not hire unless you absolutely, positively are sure that you need to.

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I am sure there are things I am leaving out as I have learned a lot of things the hard way. But I gotta get back to work.

On that note:

13. RooshVForum will be an entertaining time suck that will destroy your productivity. If you need to get serious work done, do not log on! haha.

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Post: #22

(06-23-2013 09:19 PM)puckman Wrote:  I can attest first hand, that the only place to be if you are an engineer or on the business side in the internet business, right now is NYC.

I'd love to hear more about this. NYC has been gaining more prominence as a startup hub and I'm rooting for it to rise and potentially rival Silicon Valley. America wins if that happens.

Post: #23

I wouldn't put Bangalore one as cheapest.

You can live 'cheap' but it means average Indian tandard of living in a shithole cheap. The type of existence that put "10. health comes first" at too much risk.

Other than food, if you want to live in anything resembling civilisation, it's going to cost you in Bangalore.

I've met one western location independent dude in India,and he picked Cochin/Ernakulum, the latter being more developed.

Post: #24

I had thought about asking here on RVF, about cities and ambition, around the world, but this thread I am sure, will deliver much of the answers that I was looking for.

No one here mentions Santiago - is the only reason this could be attractive, the government founded Start-up Chile program?

How about Austin, Texas - no personal experience about the place, apart from having been there a single night. But I think I heard or read somewhere, someone recommending it. Anyone here with thoughts about that place?

Post: #25

(06-24-2013 02:47 PM)FitAsFuck Wrote:  No one here mentions Santiago - is the only reason this could be attractive, the government founded Start-up Chile program?

Yeah heard about this here and there - can you break it down briefly?