Post: #1

Let me start off by saying that I'm still at a newbie level with night game. I've barely gotten a number close and no make outs yet. BUT, I really think I've made some significant progress recently.

First, let me bring up "negging." If any of you have ever read anything by Mystery or Neil Strauss, you should already understand the purpose and usage of the "neg."

Basic example of Mystery's negs:

"where's her off button."
"wow, you just poop words."
"Is your hair real? looks nice anyway."

These aren't bad, but I don't think they're really worth remembering. I think negs should be a little more improv, otherwise it comes out awkward. Let me explain. I was at this bar near the campus of the University of Delaware, and I saw this hot, drunk college girl, standing in a cornor, surrounded by 5 older guys that were obviously trying to game her. This was objectively the hottest girl at the bar, by all the attention she was receiving. I weaseled my way in the group (or set) by isolating one guy and just having a chill conversation with him. This brought me into their set.

Soon I was talking to all the guys in this group, 2 guys at a time, just having a chill conversation about where everyone is from. I'm not talking to the hot girl yet though, because I was too distracted by the chill conversation I was having. As a result, I sort of took the spot light away from her. About 4 minutes after talking with the guys I looked at her and used Roosh's line, "you look like you're having more fun than anyone else here." She responded with something, but whatever came out of her mouth just went right through one ear and out the other. I quickly responded with Roosh's follow up line, but I modified it a bit. The convo went as follows:

Opener on girl: "you look like you're having more fun than anyone else here."
Girl: "blah blah blah"
Me: "Right, so let me guess, you're an Italian girl, from NJ."
Girl: "huh?" ::with a wtf look on her face::
Me: "Well yeah, you're tanned, and kinda loud. You talk with your hands too.." <== neg

Girl: "What!? You... asshole! I'm from PA and I'm Irish, you fucking ass.. blah blah blah.."

Me: "You should be proud. Just accept that you're... blah blah"

As you can see, I just sent the neg straight at her, heating things up quickly. I delivered this with a playful smirk on my face. Not only did I get a reaction out of her without visibly trying to, she couldn't stop talking about me and what an asshole she thought I was. She started pointing her finger in my face, accusing me of this and that...

I threw in another minute of teasing, letting her have just a little bit more, only this time with a slightly more mocking smirk on my face (being careful not to over do it of course).

Me: Really? So you're really not Italian from NJ?
Girl: I'm NOT! You're sooo wrong! Blah blah
Me: But those hands... It's like you're tossing an invisible pizza when you talk. There's no way you're Irish.
Girl: Shut up, you're soo wrong.
Me: Hey guys? You like Italian? pshhhhh
Girl: You know you're just... Blah blah blah

After that minute of verbal exchange, my facial expressions and body language were conveying something like, "hey, this girl is kinda obnoxious, she just can't take a joke. crazy stuff, I'm just havin' fun." So basically, I expanded on that neg, making it look as though she was being the buzzkill (her fault!). She couldn't stand it!

I left her with that expression, turning my back toward her with that sardonically playful grin still on my face, like I had just about had enough of her. I just turned my back, and tried to restart that chill conversation I was having with those guys. I was genuinely more interested in the conversation for some reason, even though I could still hear her talking about me being an asshole. I never reacted to anything she said, I just smirked when I heard her inane insults. A minute goes by, when I notice she's points her finger at me again, and I just responded with that fun smile. All the sudden, she grabs me!

As she's grabbing me, she continues yapping on about how I'm all wrong about her and just some asshole. At this point, things are getting to be fun in my view. I get in her face, with a look that says "don't mess with me honey," this time in a playful yet kinda challenging/sexual way. I grab her hip for a second, remove my hand from the hip for 3, then grab again for 4 seconds, then remove for another 3, then grab and keep them there. While I'm doing this on/off hip grabbing procedure, I'm sarcastically agreeing with her remarks. This goes back and forth for about 20 seconds, with her touching me as well. At the 20 second mark, I said, "you've got a weird piece of fuzz in your hair" and slowly run my fingers across her hair (I've used this line before, works every time).

And that's when my lips were only half an inch away from her lips. Pacing 2 or 3 times back and forth from her lips, coming to that half-inch gap between our lips each time. Building that tension by pacing (thanks Roosh).

But guess what? I WUSSIED OUT.

Conclusion: that aggressive state I put her in (thanks to that condescendingly powerful, teasing, expanded neg) combined with instant sexual tension from touching, created the ultimate hot/cold experience that she'll never forget.

Post: #2

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying you were doing by grabbing her hips. Pushing her away? Pulling her closer?

I agree with you on one point though-improv. Using the same line over and over again can only take you so far. I've actually had quite a bit of luck picking up girls with the "palm-reading" technique, not even intending to. After my weekend bar-hopping extravaganzas I usually drop by I-Hop or Waffle House for a quick bite to eat (and soak up some of the alchol) during which I read. The past couple of months I've become interested in palm-reading. Got two numbers last weekend doing that, though it mainly ended up functioning as an ice breaker.

Only thing...you should have went for the close. If it's anything like you described, you should have definitely went for the kiss (and shut up her simulatenous stream of insults as well). Though I can't help but think what you just described might have went a bit better if she was a bit closer to sober. Surprised she didn't slap you-the alcohol probably didn't help her aggression level and she wasn't seeing where you were joking. Maybe it's just southern women, but usually when I drop my neg (and am clearly teasing her), she doesn't start a steady stream of insults.

Post: #3

(05-29-2009 01:01 AM)eXpatriated Wrote:  I'm not sure I understand what you're saying you were doing by grabbing her hips. Pushing her away? Pulling her closer?

It's just to get the touching started. Touching definitely makes it sexual.

Yeah, I've been touching women on the hips. I think it's best to start with the shoulders at first, though I wouldn't make that the rule. After a few touches on the shoulders, I'll try putting my hand on one the hip for a second. All this as I'm talking, just to see how she reacts. I'll remove my hand for a few seconds, up to a minute maybe, only to return my hand to her hip. I'll do this several times, increasing the time length of each touch. This is how I gauge her reaction, until she's ready for my hands to stay on her hips. It's a hot/cold sort thing too, builds up tension and a little doubt.

(05-29-2009 01:01 AM)eXpatriated Wrote:  I agree with you on one point though-improv. Using the same line over and over again can only take you so far. I've actually had quite a bit of luck picking up girls with the "palm-reading" technique, not even intending to. After my weekend bar-hopping extravaganzas I usually drop by I-Hop or Waffle House for a quick bite to eat (and soak up some of the alchol) during which I read. The past couple of months I've become interested in palm-reading. Got two numbers last weekend doing that, though it mainly ended up functioning as an ice breaker.

Yeah, I need to try palm reading again. I'm going BS the whole thing next time. "...and this is your money line. It says you've done too much shopping"

(05-29-2009 01:01 AM)eXpatriated Wrote:  Only thing...you should have went for the close. If it's anything like you described, you should have definitely went for the kiss (and shut up her simulatenous stream of insults as well). Though I can't help but think what you just described might have went a bit better if she was a bit closer to sober. Surprised she didn't slap you-the alcohol probably didn't help her aggression level and she wasn't seeing where you were joking. Maybe it's just southern women, but usually when I drop my neg (and am clearly teasing her), she doesn't start a steady stream of insults.

I think her drunken state actually helped, with escalation at least.

Post: #4

Your observations aren't bad, but you can know nothing about negs and still do very well with women. I find that most guys are using it on average or cute girls. They are meant for the hottest of the hot, which 99% of guys don't interact with.

Post: #5

(06-07-2009 09:36 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Your observations aren't bad, but you can know nothing about negs and still do very well with women. I find that most guys are using it on average or cute girls. They are meant for the hottest of the hot, which 99% of guys don't interact with.

Hmmmm... Please explain that some more.

The basic rule behind negs has always been that the hotter the girl is, the harder you have to neg. Supposedly you have to neg the hotter girls more because guys are always complimenting her. However, that rule was established by a guy that wears eye liner and does magic tricks for sex, so I'm more than willing to break it.

Post: #6

(06-08-2009 06:41 AM)busther Wrote:  [quote='Roosh' pid='4748' dateline='1244428563']
However, that rule was established by a guy that wears eye liner and does magic tricks for sex, so I'm more than willing to break it.

It's good to remember that once information becomes public, it's public. Meaning that hottest girls might be aware of tricks like that since guys try to get them in whatever ways we can, including using negs on hottest of the hot.

Post: #7

Roosh knows.. I've noticed that average looking girls (below 8.5 on the scale) are much more difficult to game because I'm still used to negging. That girl I negged in this situation was uber hot.

Hangover, I don't use Mystery's negs, and I never get called out. Most people are too stupid to properly use negs, much less come up with their own.
Me: Where did you go this summer? To the beach right?
Girl: No. I was here in *middle-of-no-where* Delaware, working : (
Me: Well it looks like you just got back from the beach, cause you're seriously tan, or just Italian.

Post: #8

Bottom line is I don't remember the last time I had to use a neg, and I have gotten with some very cute girls. I tease a lot, but the end result of teasing is to make her laugh and show confidence, not necessarily to make her feel insecure.

Post: #9

Now that I think about it I may be negging unconsciously. I'll get back to you on this subject.

Post: #10

(06-08-2009 04:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Now that I think about it I may be negging unconsciously. I'll get back to you on this subject.

As long as it comes out naturally it won't make her call you out on it. Making her feel slightly insecure is OK, I think, but at the same time making her laugh at herself in a good way is definitely a deal sealer, imho.

Post: #11

First of all props for approaching a group and delivering your lines.

But in general this post is a mess.

1. A neg hit is a part of the (old school) Mystery Method, which is an indirect style of game. It's usually the first thing newbies/feminazi journalists cling to, cause it's so counter-intuitive. It's also very misunderstood.

Neg's aren't negative statements designed to hurt the girl you're talking to.

A lot of the old school negs were merely observations of flaws.
- those nails are nice, are they real?
- ooh, you're so cute, your nose wiggles when you talk

Little innocuous statements that may or may not have the desired effect. The fact that women are so accustomed to hearing nothing but a guy's resume and copious compliments is why so many people are up in arms about it.

Negs also have a secondary effect on the guy because he's now taking chicks off the pedestal that he puts them on.

The whole point of the neg was not to insult her, but to do a lot of things
- show that you're observant
- suggest that you have standards, and she may not meet them
- crack her eggshell of confidence when she's wearing her sexiest clothes, in a world where she normally runs things
- increase your value in her eyes, and in her mind, you've decreased her value - and this is important, because her social position in the the social hierarchy of groups is the most important thing to a chick.

And you used negs, sparingly. Only for the upper echelon of flawless chicks. You didn't talk to a 7 and say, "ooh your shoes look comfy".

What would be the point? A 7 knows she's a 7 (of course, if she doesn't, you may need to bring her back down to earth, but we'll save that for a diff convo)

You broke out "is that some lint on your jacket" for the chick that was too cool for school, the club queens, the Paris Hilton's, and off duty strippers. You humanize her in essence.

2. What you did, was playfully (?) insult her, and then go physical. This is much more of the direct/improv style that is much more "normal". This is standard Jock/asshole/alpha game. I think they used to call this Cocky and Funny.

Direct Game - she knows that you're trying to talk to her, in order to fuck her. Indirect, she's not sure (although in most cases she'll have an inkling)

And improv game as opposed to canned game is a useless distinction, as anyone who's been out in the field, tells the same stories and also responds to situations as need be. Nobody comes up with 100% new material with every chick he speaks to. And nobody has every part of the interaction scripted out.

Direct/Improv/Asshole game doesn't need to use negs, per se, cause it's usually so over the top.

The neg was supposed to cause that little moment of insecurity, a quick look back to her awkward days. You could throw one in in the midst of busting her balls, but it's supposed to instill those same indirect game sort of ideas.

3. This isn't a new way to look @ negs at all. It's pretty old hat to stir up some trouble and then take advantage of her emotional state/social situation. You could learn this from watching the Keanu Reeves classic, Speed. Get a chick in a dangerous/exciting situation, and you can take advantage of her. That's why you drive a fast car and look like a bad ass. She wants to be thrilled.

It seems that you're doing fine with out knowing all of this theory. You should probably concentrate your efforts on what is getting results for you, rather than try to incorporate other people's ideas.

Post: #12

Broken, should I be using these classic negs then?

I busted her for talking with her hands too much, I thought it was a pretty good neg. Help me think of some better negs.

Post: #13

(06-12-2009 11:37 PM)busther Wrote:  Broken, should I be using these classic negs then?

I busted her for talking with her hands too much, I thought it was a pretty good neg. Help me think of some better negs.

A better question is
- do your targets have too much self confidence?

If they do, use the classics.
If you don't like the classics, develop your own "go to" negs.
If you've completely internalized picking up women - then you improvise as you go.

If your targets do not have super high over the top self confidence, focus on the next part of your approach.

Post: #14

I have used a lot of negging game in my upcoming years but the majority of the time i was doing it unconsciously and it was after fucking the girls, i never used this as being game(actually i did, story coming soon on this post) but recently i decided to use some negging game before the bang and it worked perfectly fine (i got the idea from the forum).

I was texting this girl back and forth. She told me that her friends say that she is a prude..after few texts she asked me why i approached her..i told her that i liked her style and thats why i approached her but i didnt know i had a thing for prudes..she lol and tells me that she is not really a prude..every now and then, after a certain text, i would tell her, "you prude"..she will txt back.. "im not a prude".

When i was fucking her, i was asking her..are you a prude?lol

I am gonna start using more negging game and i think Roosh is right, negging game should be for the hottest chicks.

This thread should have more ideas.

I have got this date with this super hot chick in DR. I have met with her twice and i have spoken to her on the phone several times. I think she MAY thinks that im the good guy type that is madly into her, but she needs to know that i am a boss and she needs to play under my rules.

Any ideas on some negging game i could use before the bang when i meet up with her?

Few ideas i have in mind

" you were looking better two years ago"
"you are not really my type but i like your personality"
I could just act like im not that happy to see her.

Obviously i want to do this but still get the bang.

Let me just share this negging story that happened years ago with me.

We met from the internet (blackchat.co.uk)..she was really hot on the pic..when she got to my train station, she was even hotter..she was a 9 in my book..i saw her and i acted like she didnt look good..i told her "hey" and i started walking really fast towards my house as if i didnt want to be seen hanging out with her..i just told her is this way and i was looking kinda upset..even though i wasnt looking behind, i could tell she was mad that i didnt like her and when i felt she was going to say something (she was trying to say that she was going home, i quickly stopped her), i quickly turned around and gave her this wonderful smile..hey im sorry for walking too fast, i was cooking at home and i left my oven on..and then we started walking right next each other and everthing was cool..when we got home, i banged her without hesitation.

Back on this DR chick, she thinks there is a possibility of us dating seriously, i could continue on using beta game on her till i get the bang or i could just alpha the whole situation as soon as she sees me again. Any ideas? I would appreciate some negging game, i am sure negging game works well on her personality.

Post: #15

I actually work around UD. I did not know any rooshies besides DeathtoFatties hung around the area. My car was towed at the parking lot on mainstreet one time I was down, there haven't been heading down there as much after that. Stay around Trolley now if I get time to go out.

I think you were very close to a kiss. I

Post: #16

(06-08-2009 06:41 AM)girllover Wrote:  

(06-07-2009 09:36 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Your observations aren't bad, but you can know nothing about negs and still do very well with women. I find that most guys are using it on average or cute girls. They are meant for the hottest of the hot, which 99% of guys don't interact with.

Hmmmm... Please explain that some more.
However, that rule was established by a guy that wears eye liner and does magic tricks for sex, so I'm more than willing to break it.

GL, you're like a psychology undergraduate attempting to glibly mock Freud; who constructed a whole new model of the mind ("But he smoked a PIPE!"); while you don't even understand the basics of what you're dismissing.

But don't worry, guys who are arrogant and over-estimate themselves do well with women!

Post: #17

(09-07-2012 12:15 AM)deepcov3r Wrote:  

(06-08-2009 06:41 AM)girllover Wrote:  

(06-07-2009 09:36 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Your observations aren't bad, but you can know nothing about negs and still do very well with women. I find that most guys are using it on average or cute girls. They are meant for the hottest of the hot, which 99% of guys don't interact with.

Hmmmm... Please explain that some more.
However, that rule was established by a guy that wears eye liner and does magic tricks for sex, so I'm more than willing to break it.

GL, you're like a psychology undergraduate attempting to glibly mock Freud; who constructed a whole new model of the mind ("But he smoked a PIPE!"); while you don't even understand the basics of what you're dismissing.

But don't worry, guys who are arrogant and over-estimate themselves do well with women!

He hasn't visited the forum in two years dude, he's never going to see that, this thread was created in 2009...