Post: #1

Ok...I have a bit of an interesting situation regarding one of my best friends. I've known the guy since we were kids, and he's a cool guy. Always has been.

When we got to college about 10 years ago, he was one of those people who couldn't balance school/partying well, and did not graduate as a result of that.

Then, he made some stupid legal mistakes like stealing money from his employer (nothing much - like $200 but still a stupid choice).

So, he's only been working odd jobs the past few years and living at home again. Because of his past, he has trouble finding a normal job and his last job was as a pool table installer, which he did not last long at.

He's late 20s now, and living at home. He is constantly texting me stuff like "can't even smoke", "can't drink", "can't have women over", "going crazy", "mitigating insanity", etc. It's one of those households where rules are in place, it's not like some guys who live at home and can drink/smoke/bang women whenever they want in their basement.

He doesn't have a car right now, so he's basically stuck at home and can sometimes use the family car on weekends, but not often. He's currently in an exurban community (a super far-flung suburb basically) so there's no nightlife nearby or anything for a young single guy, and he says it's very strange because a lot of the neighbors are not much older than him. I get the impression his parents are fed up with him, but at the same time, won't really help him move out.

I had a period shortly after college when I moved back home, and I can obviously relate to some of it. I mean, it is kind of weird when you are worried about getting caught jacking off like you're in middle-school.

So, he's asking me to co-sign an apartment lease since he does have some money saved up. I told him I wouldn't do that, but would help him with his rent just the first month (only rent - no utilities or outside costs), but he has to find a month-to-month apartment deal and after the first month he's on his own. Fair trade-off I'd say.

I care about him, and I think he could really turn things around given a bit of help.

Would you do this?

Post: #2

If you want to stay friends, no. If you don't want to stay friends, no.

He is where he is because of his decisions. Don't let him take you down with him.

Post: #3

I really think just a small push might get him in the right direction. I told him he wouldn't have to pay me back anything, and he knows I won't go above $500. He can cover the rest if he wants something more expensive, and I'm only helping out the first month, that is it. I told him it has to be month-by-month.

I'd like to see him "get a place" though, , I think that would really help him out a lot.

Post: #4

(06-05-2013 02:53 AM)DiorHomme Wrote:  I really think just a small push might get him in the right direction. I told him he wouldn't have to pay me back anything, and he knows I won't go above $500. He can cover the rest if he wants something more expensive, and I'm only helping out the first month, that is it. And, I told him it has to be month-by-month.

I'd like to see him "get a place" though, I think that would really help him out a lot.

Sounds like you already made your decisions which makes one wonder why you are asking us.

Look, if you want to mess up your credit with late payments, non payments and possible eviction, it is up to you.

Post: #5

That wouldn't happen though, I told him I'm not co-signing anything. The most I will do is help him the first month's rent and that is it. I also told him it has to be a month-by-month place, or a room from someone who isn't looking to put him on the lease.

Post: #6

(06-05-2013 03:00 AM)DiorHomme Wrote:  That wouldn't happen though, I told him I'm not co-signing anything. The most I will do is help him the first month's rent and that is it. I also told him it has to be a month-by-month place, or a room from someone who isn't looking to put him on the lease.

Ah, I misread that you said you wouldn't co-sign. Just some first month cash, sure, I would help if I thought he could afford living there.

If he couldn't afford living there, I wouldn't give him the money.

Post: #7

What value is he adding to your life?


I have learned that relationships between a giver and a receiver are similar to relationships between a man (biological giver) and a woman (biological receiver). If you as a giver give something of non-negligible value for free just to show how nice you are, without interest or any tradeoff, other then hoping that the receiver will like you more and feel gratuitous the receiver WILL start to hate you and rationalize why you are a bad person. In the game we know this well but I have observed that this is true also in other areas of life.

Post: #8

People usually turn their lives around the most when they’re not given help by others.

It’s not like his alternative is going homeless. Living at home a while longer is often a wise choice. Besides, why can’t he afford it himself if he has money saved?

Post: #9

(06-05-2013 03:07 AM)Atilla Wrote:  People usually turn their lives around the most when they’re not given help by others.

It’s not like his alternative is going homeless. Living at home a while longer is often a wise choice. Besides, why can’t he afford it himself if he has money saved?

Needs that money to buy a cheap car. It's a tough choice, one of the few people I really care about, and has been there for me as a friend.

Post: #10

If he's a really close friend and you actually do think it will help him, I see nothing wrong with throwing him a couple hundred bucks. Do you have the extra cash? To be honest though, with his track record, how much do you think it will help? Does he really seem like he's willing to change? When he's texting you thinks like, "Can't even drink" or "Cant even smoke" it's not a good sign. I understand his situation sucks, but that should be the last of his worries if that's the situation he's in. He should be texting you more something like, "Just went looking for a better job" or "Saved $200 this week to go towards a place."

I've tried helping multiple close friends and have come to the conclusion that the only way you can help is if they are willing to help themselves. A couple of my friends got into drugs. I tried hanging out and calling them to get them away from that shit, but they wouldn't answer a lot of the time because they were high and knew I wasn't about that. They got so deep that they would rather hang out with their loser druggy friends that didn't give a shit about them and would probably rob them blind given the chance than to hang out with their long time homie. They didn't want to be helped, so there was nothing I could do.

I've posted about this one else where on the forum, but I tried telling my boy his girl was cheating on him, tried letting him know what was up. He didn't believe me, told me to fuck off, and a year later, not to anyone's surprise, he catches her cheating. A couple years later, she fucks his dad and he knocks her up.

Moral of the story, if you can help someone and it's not too much of a burden to you and they are willing to be helped, great. But don't go out of your way to give this kid a grand just so he can get kicked out of his house in a couple months. It really just depends how you feel. You have to feel out the situation. At the end of the day though, you have to look out for number one (yourself).

Post: #11

I agree with what you said. I do think over the years he has changed, but has not had steady employment. It can definitely be difficult when you want a cigarette and can't have one, or just want to go out for a drink but have no means of doing so. I know sometimes he will drink a little bit by himself in his room to fall asleep. He's never been into drugs to my knowledge, besides smoking weed here & there in college.

Post: #12

(06-05-2013 03:23 AM)DiorHomme Wrote:  I agree with what you said. I do think over the years he has changed, but has not had steady employment. It can definitely be difficult when you want a cigarette and can't have one, or just want to go out for a drink but have no means of doing so. I know sometimes he will drink a little bit by himself in his room to fall asleep. He's never been into drugs to my knowledge, besides smoking weed here & there in college.

Wait, is this going to be a monthly commitment on your part? Or is he at least going to get a steady job?

If not, I don't think there is any point in getting him an apartment for a month and having him move back in with his parents the month after...unless you wanna torture him haha jk

Post: #13

You have a friend who is his own enemy. Don't expect the money back and give what won't hurt you. Have you ever lend anybody money before? Don't expect the money back and dont expect your friend to change. When he loses the apartment don't help him with anything else.

Post: #14

He says if he can start a normal life, he'll be fine and start working. I think it's really getting to him not being able to have women over. I can see how having that option would probably do him some good. I don't care about getting the money back so much, it's something I want to do to help him get a jump start in his life. He's one of those few friends who would be there if you needed him, that's why it's a tough choice.

I told him I'd help him out a bit, maybe not as much as he'd like, but at least enough to help him find a room.

Post: #15

Read/listen to Adam Carolla about his loser friends.

Losers are losers for a reason. They have to change what makes them a loser. If he has, he may be able to benefit from a hand up, not a hand out.

Post: #16

If he's your best friend and you have high hopes for him you help him out no matter what until he proves he's not really your friend. That may only take one let down, or two or three, however many you allow and talk yourself into until there's no longer any doubt he's squandered your friendship.

It's very tough but if you guys are late 20's then there is hope. That's an age where guys who have been struggling find their niche.

Keep us updated!

Post: #17

Good friends are hard to come by. If he is really your good friend,you shouldn't even ask this question. If you have the money and you think he would help you if you were on his shoes, give him that 500 bucks and tell him you wont be able to do any more than that.

Don't count too much on your friends. Help them if you can but don't have high expectations of them.

Post: #18

I would do anything to help my best friends because I know if I were in the same position they would do the same for me and all will rinse out in the wash in the end.

Post: #19

Cash might be the last way I would help a friend (unless its to pay off some guys to not break his legs).

Free rent means he has the time to get a decent job, one where he doesnt hate getting up for every day. He needs a car to get to that job.

Then after a few months of work, he should move out. Not long after that he can start hitting up bars for pussy (he will be feeling unstoppable by that point). In the mean time he needs to show diligence and focus. Prove to himself he can win the small battles (no drinking, smoking, etc).

Help him buy a car.

Giving him money to get an apartment so he can sit around and be miserable in a place that is costing him money he does not have is ass backwards.

Post: #20

Your friend is a fuckup. I will rub my crystal ball and tell you how this story ends if you give him money for an apartment.

He moves in to his new apartment. He's very happy. He says he's going to turn things around. You're happy for him.

Your friend starts enjoying all the things he wasn't able to do at home, like drinking, smoking and having girls over. He starts going out and behaving like an adult man again instead of a boy. He feels liberated.

He will find another shitty job and work at it for a few weeks, then get himself fired or quit. Because he is a fuckup, and that's what fuckups do.

You will then get a phone call from your friend. He will tell you that he needs help covering the rent because his no-good boss fired him for some bullshit reason. He'll lay the guilt trip on you and tell you it's just a one-time thing, and that if you don't give him the money he's afraid he will have to live at home again and start all over. You will give him the money because you think you're being a loyal friend.

This pattern will repeat itself until you realize that your "friend" is a fuckup and that any help you give him is just enabling his fuckup behavior. You will then stop giving him money, and he will throw a fit at first, and then once he realizes you're serious, he will call you an asshole and a bad friend, and will sever ties with you.

If you're really his friend, you would call him out for being such a fuckup and tell him to have some self-respect and get his life together.

He doesn't need help. He's an able-bodied young man. What he needs is a firm kick in the ass. Tough love is the best love. He's a man, not a boy. Time to start acting like one.

Post: #21

This line of thinking is all crazy talk.

He has a place to live, but no car..but wants to get an apartment that he cannot afford instead of a car, which he actually probably needs?

He needs to stay at home if its free. Having boundaries and rules are actually good for him because it appears that he doesn't have any. Don't help him out. Maybe buy him a few book or take him on a weekend out and have him crash at your place, maybe that will motivate him to get his life together.

Post: #22

Scorpion's hit the nail on the head.

I would help out my two best friends in a heartbeat because I know they can get their shit together and currently have their shit together. If something happened and they needed help to get back on their feet, I'd happily help them out without blinking an eye because I know they would be telling the truth and what they're like.

This guy, as Scorpion said, is a fuck up. Let him sink or swim on his own and do something better with your money like investing it in something which will get you a return.

I recently dropped one of my best friends from high school because he was adding no value to my life and was holding me back. Don't help this dude out for old time's sake. The skin is off your back, not his.

Post: #23

Buy him a $100 bike off craigslist and a cheap suit from JCPennys. He can get a job with that. He doesn't need a car, he needs to get his ass in line.

Post: #24

What scorpion said.

Post: #25

Giving money in this situation isn't helping, it's enabling. Just like a bunch of others have already said.

If you can't be accountable for your shit, then you have no reason to be enjoying the luxuries of hard work and discipline.

Helping him would entail maybe proofreading his resume, giving advice on how to ace an interview, providing moral support and the occasional beer to help keep his spirits up, a professional reference, and the like.