Post: #1

I've turned a corner...

While we casually use the term "manwhore" to describe a guy who sleeps around, the term more aptly applies to a man who wastes his time on women intent on wasting it. See while a woman's most valuable asset is her body, a man's is his time.

Recently, I was talking to this girl who had asked me for my number, would text me wanting to meet up all the time, told me how attractive she found me, and when we did meet up she was quite warm with me. However, when it came time to escalate, she'd shy away. When I tried to kiss her, she'd give me her cheek. So the first couple times this happened I didn't fret too much as it was in public at the place she works (she's a bartender, but this was always during closing time when the bar was nearly empty or empty). However, she invited me to her place one night and wanted me to massage her back with lotion. She took her top off in a fashion that I couldn't see her tits and laid down. While rubbing her back I started to escalate again but the same thing happened, she averted my advances. So we go to sleep and the next morning before I leave she reminds me of a beach date I said we'd go on and to text her the day before to let her know when we'd go at.

I smiled and left. On that drive home however, I realized then and there that she was wasting my time based on a few things. A) She didn't respond when I escalated, B) She'd mentioned her "asshole" ex a few times, and C) she'd talked about a friend of hers she'd fucked in front of me while at a party at her house the same night I slept over. With regard to C, I don't care about her sleeping around as I had no intention of dating her, but it goes to show she's not against casual sex, she's just against it with me.

This is where things change. She's a very attractive girl, and in the past my ego would persuade me to continue chasing this but my recent ego death had allowed me to see things more objectively. I accepted that she's not into me, which sucks for a split second until you realize how liberated you are. As a result of me accepting this, I didn't schedule the date with her and went to another beach party with a mixed group of people I know. My time with them resulted in very good progress with some girls I had previously only knew on the fringe.

So what I'm getting at is that had I let my ego get in the way, I would've wasted more of my valuable time. My need to "win" or be the best would have resulted in nothing more then time wasted ("whored out" if you will). Instead, I objectively weighed my options and chose the one that seemed better, which turned out to be correct. Humility will take you far in the dating world and life itself. Carry it with you as it will free you to see things objectively. Hope you found this post useful guys.

Post: #2

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  I've turned a corner...

While we casually use the term "manwhore" to describe a guy who sleeps around, the term more aptly applies to a man who wastes his time on women intent on wasting it. See while a woman's most valuable asset is her body, a man's is his time.

Recently, I was talking to this girl who had asked me for my number, would text me wanting to meet up all the time, told me how attractive she found me, and when we did meet up she was quite warm with me. However, when it came time to escalate, she'd shy away. When I tried to kiss her, she'd give me her cheek. So the first couple times this happened I didn't fret too much as it was in public at the place she works (she's a bartender, but this was always during closing time when the bar was nearly empty or empty). However, she invited me to her place one night and wanted me to massage her back with lotion. She took her top off in a fashion that I couldn't see her tits and laid down. While rubbing her back I started to escalate again but the same thing happened, she averted my advances. So we go to sleep and the next morning before I leave she reminds me of a beach date I said we'd go on and to text her the day before to let her know when we'd go at.

I smiled and left. On that drive home however, I realized then and there that she was wasting my time based on a few things. A) She didn't respond when I escalated, B) She'd mentioned her "asshole" ex a few times, and C) she'd talked about a friend of hers she'd fucked in front of me while at a party at her house the same night I slept over. With regard to C, I don't care about her sleeping around as I had no intention of dating her, but it goes to show she's not against casual sex, she's just against it with me.

This is where things change. She's a very attractive girl, and in the past my ego would persuade me to continue chasing this but my recent ego death had allowed me to see things more objectively. I accepted that she's not into me, which sucks for a split second until you realize how liberated you are. As a result of me accepting this, I didn't schedule the date with her and went to another beach party with a mixed group of people I know. My time with them resulted in very good progress with some girls I had previously only knew on the fringe.

So what I'm getting at is that had I let my ego get in the way, I would've wasted more of my valuable time. My need to "win" or be the best would have resulted in nothing more then time wasted ("whored out" if you will). Instead, I objectively weighed my options and chose the one that seemed better, which turned out to be correct. Humility will take you far in the dating world and life itself. Carry it with you as it will free you to see things objectively. Hope you found this post useful guys.

I've had this revelation too, saves a lot of time.

Post: #3

I normally give women two chances for stuff like that. After mistake 2 i would have just gotten up and left with out a single word.

She was trying to make you an orbiter. Classic web of bs one can find himself in.

Post: #4

There are no creatures in this world who needs more self-affirmation than woman. I mean, even the real cute ones carry a deep and profocund insecurity with them, simply because they want to be seen as more than just a pretty face. Point is many of them haven`t developed either perspective or interesting personalities because their life is mainly focused on the perception other people have about them. She obviously was just into getting a power-trip from controlling the situation with you. And honestly, that is the only power woman have. The pussy.

Post: #5

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  When I tried to kiss her, she'd give me her cheek.

However, she invited me to her place one night and wanted me to massage her back with lotion.

Wow.

(05-28-2013 07:51 AM)The Pirate Wrote:  She obviously was just into getting a power-trip from controlling the situation with you. And honestly, that is the only power woman have. The pussy.

She completely loses that power when she is never going to give it.

There are online time vampires who will correspond, but never meet. There are dinner whores, who have overblown expectations that they will get wined and dined. This one is an affection whore, who want a gay best friend masseuse. It seems hopeless. But after she goes topless, it is time for a make-out, a reciprocal massage, or a freeze-out. I like the OP's cavalier ego control. But I don't like give her a free night of cuddling after her manipulative behavior.

Post: #6

Any chick that invites you home, takes off her top in front of you, and lets you get hands on rubbing lotion on her (face it...you let a dude get his hands on you that way, it's sexual for him), and then rebuffs advances is playing games with you, or trying to turn you into a personal servant. It's like that joke - What's the difference between a bitch and a ho? A ho fucks everybody. A bitch fucks everybody except you. This one fits into the bitch category...HA HA! It was smart to walk away.

Post: #7

I'm not really sure where the term manwhore comes into play at all. This should be a thread titled, "Look at things objectively, don't let your ego get in the way"

This thread has nothing to do with being a manwhore as evidenced by him going elsewhere and getting prospects with multiple women afterwards.

A manwhore is not someone who wastes their time. Otherwise every single beta orbiter and friendzoned loser would be a manwhore. No need to reinvent the wheel here.

Post: #8

I like this post.

I have adopted a similar mentality.

I am now turning down more pussy then I am getting. I am having less sex.

Why?

Because if I can't have it on my terms, I DON'T WANT IT. PERIOD.

These girls are not worth it. I will not do things that I don't want to do, I will not go places that I don't want to go, I will not stay up until 4am just because I need sex.

That seems like desperation to me. I'm not desperate

I will only do things with girls that I would otherwise already be doing, by myself.

Cute girls are welcome to join me in my life, but, I will not be joining theirs.

It's my way or the highway.

Pussy just ain't worth it.

For too many guys, pussy is a chain around their neck, pulling them around town, pulling them to do things that they really shouldn't be doing or that they really don't want to do. Pulling them to spent large amounts of time, energy, and money trying to have sex.

Stop chasing pussy. Make pussy chase you or make money or just go workout or do your hobby.

Pussy is the greatest waste of time in a mans life.

Get power. Pussy will come and find you.

Post: #9

(05-28-2013 01:45 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Pussy just ain't worth it.

For too many guys, pussy is a chain around their neck, pulling them around town, pulling them to do things that they really shouldn't be doing or that they really don't want to do. Pulling them to spent large amounts of time, energy, and money trying to have sex.

Stop chasing pussy. Make pussy chase you or make money or just go workout or do your hobby.

Pussy is the greatest waste of time in a mans life.

Get power. Pussy will come and find you.

Great post Gio, and great thread so far, but I got to say that this seems like a slight departure or shift from attitudes that you seemed to have expressed in the past.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought you valued game (pussy) > over money, now I know things aren't always black and white and you promote a holistic approach to these things... However, am I wrong or have you shifted to more of an M.O.B. perspective?

Plug for my classic thread M.O.B. (money over bitches):

/thread-2303.h...er+bitches

Post: #10

Time and again I've seen so many dudes tell me of some (weak) intimacy they had with a girl, albeit cuddling (this word makes me nauseous), massages, or a make-out. They then spend the next three months trying to negotiate with this one chick to have sex with them. 99% if the time it fails miserably.

I usually try to help a buddy out by just straight up telling him to drop her, she's a waste of time. I'll get a "Yeah, you're right man she's a bitch" only to hear about how they hung out (no sex of course) the next week. Another slave to the pussy.

Post: #11

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  I've turned a corner...

While we casually use the term "manwhore" to describe a guy who sleeps around, the term more aptly applies to a man who wastes his time on women intent on wasting it. See while a woman's most valuable asset is her body, a man's is his time.

Recently, I was talking to this girl who had asked me for my number, would text me wanting to meet up all the time, told me how attractive she found me, and when we did meet up she was quite warm with me. However, when it came time to escalate, she'd shy away. When I tried to kiss her, she'd give me her cheek. So the first couple times this happened I didn't fret too much as it was in public at the place she works (she's a bartender, but this was always during closing time when the bar was nearly empty or empty). However, she invited me to her place one night and wanted me to massage her back with lotion. She took her top off in a fashion that I couldn't see her tits and laid down. While rubbing her back I started to escalate again but the same thing happened, she averted my advances. So we go to sleep and the next morning before I leave she reminds me of a beach date I said we'd go on and to text her the day before to let her know when we'd go at.

I smiled and left. On that drive home however, I realized then and there that she was wasting my time based on a few things. A) She didn't respond when I escalated, B) She'd mentioned her "asshole" ex a few times, and C) she'd talked about a friend of hers she'd fucked in front of me while at a party at her house the same night I slept over. With regard to C, I don't care about her sleeping around as I had no intention of dating her, but it goes to show she's not against casual sex, she's just against it with me.

Post: #12

@ Divorco:
There's a little more to the story that I left out in haste. She had been texting with me trying to get me to go over there for about a week, but I was busy the whole time. The night I went over, she'd invited me over earlier that night to come over to her party but I was out with friends. She kept texting me later and I told her I was gonna head home but I realized that it was late, I was too drunk to drive home, and she lived much closer to the bar I was at than I, so I went over there pretty much to crash and avoid a DUI. So I didn't really consider it much of a lost investment on my part. However, while over there, she wanted to go to her room and watch a movie so I figured "I guess she wants to screw". I was tired but I was down. During the movie though, one of her friends came in, saw we were on the bed, was about to leave, but the chick invited her to stay (first bad sign), after the movie she was getting friendly and wanted a massage so that's when that all went down. While giving her the massage, she asked me "Do I make you nervous". I chuckled and said no, but I'm pretty sure her asking me that is a bad sign. So while I figured it wasn't going anywhere, it's not like I planned my night around it, I just fell into it at the end of the night. Plus her bed was comfortable and it helped avoid a potential DUI.

@Aneroid Ocean
I understand the common meaning of manwhore, and perhaps 'manslut' would be a more apt term, but the point I was trying to get across is that a slut/whore is a women who gives away her most valuable asset (her body) without any return on investment from a man with his most valuable asset (a man's time). A man who gives his time without sex is the same as a woman who gives her sex without a man's time/effort. When you said "Otherwise every single beta orbiter and friendzoned loser would be a manwhore" that was the point I was getting at. From a functional/transactional standpoint, the orbiter is to the male what the slut/whore is to the female.

@Giovonny:
Simply awesome. I think in scarface the guy talks about how you get power, then women, not the other way around. Girls love to chase. They may not make 100% of the effort, but they'll make most of it if they are actually, sexually, attracted to you.

@Theblacknarwhal:
See these guys you're talking about aren't slaves to the pussy, they're slaves to women. Hell if a women is breakin me off a piece and it's good gettin, I can make some concessions, but these guys aren't getting any. They're scared of being alone and they need validation.

Some other background:

I recently went through a semi-dry spell (I had some one nighters, but nothing consistent) and that cleared me of the fear of being alone and/or not getting any. So what? It won't kill me for a girl to like me or for me to not get some. If she's not into me no big deal. I don't need the ego stroke of getting inside her. I'd like to fuck her, I still like sex, I like to bust, but objectively it's not gonna happen, so I stop. Why guys still pursue while the writing is on the wall is because of ego, validation needs, delusion, and/or desperation. One of the best comments I ever read on a manosphere blog was this: "The takeaway from the manosphere is that while everyone cannot be Alpha, no one has to be a victim". I accept that most women aren't going to see me as their dream guy or top guy, but I'm not going to allow my time to be wasted.

Post: #13

Nek, I like your mindset, but you should also consider you are failing her shit tests. A girl inviting you over for a platonic massage is a massive shit test. She is seeing if you will be an orbiter or if you have some dignity and a spine. Then she reminds you about a beach date. She is taking the lead and she is not going to respect you as long as you are not taking the lead. Finally, she talked about fucking your friend right in front of you. Another shit test. Seeing if you will be a compliant beta orbiter.

Also, you were trying to kiss her at her workplace, the bar, a bad idea on its face.

If you had to do this all over again, some ideas:
1. Be coy at her workplace, try to move her somewhere discreet where she will be less inhibited and more willing to kiss. Do not linger long at her bar.
2. Reject the massage invite - disqualify yourself - saying you're not that type of guy, you have to be wined and dined, not that easy etc.
3. Do not reward her for not sleeping with you by staying the night with her. If you absolutely can't go home make an excuse about how you can't share a bed and sleep on her couch, or roll over and sleep back facing her like a lump.
4. If you are less compliant I doubt she will rub her fucking your friend in your face, but if she does this is outright rude - pump and dump if you can or vaguely cut her off and don't spend time with her.

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  I've turned a corner...

While we casually use the term "manwhore" to describe a guy who sleeps around, the term more aptly applies to a man who wastes his time on women intent on wasting it. See while a woman's most valuable asset is her body, a man's is his time.

Recently, I was talking to this girl who had asked me for my number, would text me wanting to meet up all the time, told me how attractive she found me, and when we did meet up she was quite warm with me. However, when it came time to escalate, she'd shy away. When I tried to kiss her, she'd give me her cheek. So the first couple times this happened I didn't fret too much as it was in public at the place she works (she's a bartender, but this was always during closing time when the bar was nearly empty or empty). However, she invited me to her place one night and wanted me to massage her back with lotion. She took her top off in a fashion that I couldn't see her tits and laid down. While rubbing her back I started to escalate again but the same thing happened, she averted my advances. So we go to sleep and the next morning before I leave she reminds me of a beach date I said we'd go on and to text her the day before to let her know when we'd go at.

I smiled and left. On that drive home however, I realized then and there that she was wasting my time based on a few things. A) She didn't respond when I escalated, B) She'd mentioned her "asshole" ex a few times, and C) she'd talked about a friend of hers she'd fucked in front of me while at a party at her house the same night I slept over. With regard to C, I don't care about her sleeping around as I had no intention of dating her, but it goes to show she's not against casual sex, she's just against it with me.

This is where things change. She's a very attractive girl, and in the past my ego would persuade me to continue chasing this but my recent ego death had allowed me to see things more objectively. I accepted that she's not into me, which sucks for a split second until you realize how liberated you are. As a result of me accepting this, I didn't schedule the date with her and went to another beach party with a mixed group of people I know. My time with them resulted in very good progress with some girls I had previously only knew on the fringe.

So what I'm getting at is that had I let my ego get in the way, I would've wasted more of my valuable time. My need to "win" or be the best would have resulted in nothing more then time wasted ("whored out" if you will). Instead, I objectively weighed my options and chose the one that seemed better, which turned out to be correct. Humility will take you far in the dating world and life itself. Carry it with you as it will free you to see things objectively. Hope you found this post useful guys.

Post: #14

(05-28-2013 06:56 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  Nek, I like your mindset, but you should also consider you are failing her shit tests. A girl inviting you over for a platonic massage is a massive shit test. She is seeing if you will be an orbiter or if you have some dignity and a spine. Then she reminds you about a beach date. She is taking the lead and she is not going to respect you as long as you are not taking the lead. Finally, she talked about fucking your friend right in front of you. Another shit test. Seeing if you will be a compliant beta orbiter.

Also, you were trying to kiss her at her workplace, the bar, a bad idea on its face.

If you had to do this all over again, some ideas:
1. Be coy at her workplace, try to move her somewhere discreet where she will be less inhibited and more willing to kiss. Do not linger long at her bar.
2. Reject the massage invite - disqualify yourself - saying you're not that type of guy, you have to be wined and dined, not that easy etc.
3. Do not reward her for not sleeping with you by staying the night with her. If you absolutely can't go home make an excuse about how you can't share a bed and sleep on her couch, or roll over and sleep back facing her like a lump.
4. If you are less compliant I doubt she will rub her fucking your friend in your face, but if she does this is outright rude - pump and dump if you can or vaguely cut her off and don't spend time with her.

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  I've turned a corner...

While we casually use the term "manwhore" to describe a guy who sleeps around, the term more aptly applies to a man who wastes his time on women intent on wasting it. See while a woman's most valuable asset is her body, a man's is his time.

Recently, I was talking to this girl who had asked me for my number, would text me wanting to meet up all the time, told me how attractive she found me, and when we did meet up she was quite warm with me. However, when it came time to escalate, she'd shy away. When I tried to kiss her, she'd give me her cheek. So the first couple times this happened I didn't fret too much as it was in public at the place she works (she's a bartender, but this was always during closing time when the bar was nearly empty or empty). However, she invited me to her place one night and wanted me to massage her back with lotion. She took her top off in a fashion that I couldn't see her tits and laid down. While rubbing her back I started to escalate again but the same thing happened, she averted my advances. So we go to sleep and the next morning before I leave she reminds me of a beach date I said we'd go on and to text her the day before to let her know when we'd go at.

I smiled and left. On that drive home however, I realized then and there that she was wasting my time based on a few things. A) She didn't respond when I escalated, B) She'd mentioned her "asshole" ex a few times, and C) she'd talked about a friend of hers she'd fucked in front of me while at a party at her house the same night I slept over. With regard to C, I don't care about her sleeping around as I had no intention of dating her, but it goes to show she's not against casual sex, she's just against it with me.

This is where things change. She's a very attractive girl, and in the past my ego would persuade me to continue chasing this but my recent ego death had allowed me to see things more objectively. I accepted that she's not into me, which sucks for a split second until you realize how liberated you are. As a result of me accepting this, I didn't schedule the date with her and went to another beach party with a mixed group of people I know. My time with them resulted in very good progress with some girls I had previously only knew on the fringe.

So what I'm getting at is that had I let my ego get in the way, I would've wasted more of my valuable time. My need to "win" or be the best would have resulted in nothing more then time wasted ("whored out" if you will). Instead, I objectively weighed my options and chose the one that seemed better, which turned out to be correct. Humility will take you far in the dating world and life itself. Carry it with you as it will free you to see things objectively. Hope you found this post useful guys.

Appreciate the input. She didn't invite me over for the massage (sorry if it came off that way), that just evolved later in the night. She'd been asking me to hang out at her place the whole week and said she was going to keep inviting me till I said yes, which I didn't, and only got the idea of finally going to her place once I realized how hammered I was. When trying to kiss her at the bar, it was always in a discreet spot (typically the back of the bar by ourselves at closing time on a week day night, no one around). with regard to the friend-fucking talk, she wasn't talking about a friend of mine, but hers. The night I went to her house, her and her roommates were having a party and when I went over there, there were still people left so we were just bullshitting with them for a while (I didn't know any of them). Her and this male friend of hers were talking about this other guy they knew and she was talking shit about the guy in a joking manner but she did say she fucked him almost as a side note. She had tried to convince me earlier in the week that she only sleeps with guys she's dating (which I knew was B.S. from the get-go), but this little exchange confirmed otherwise. While it wasn't a shock to me, it put me in the mindset that if she doesn't respond to my advances tonight, she simply doesn't want to fuck. Which is fine, I just know that she's not that into me and ergo it's a waste of my time. While I don't think she was into me, one thing I could've done better was to have her come to my place first before ever setting foot at her spot. And that thought had occurred to me, but that was on one of the nights where she "turned her cheek" so that threw me off. Thanks for the feedback though, definitely some things to think about.

Post: #15

(05-28-2013 06:56 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  2. Reject the massage invite - disqualify yourself - saying you're not that type of guy, you have to be wined and dined, not that easy etc.

...or, you can negotiate here. Ask her if she's going to reciprocate the massage. Put her on the spot. If she fumbles or hesitates, NO THANK YOU.

Post: #16

I don't know whose 'song' I should dance to

A lot of guys here 'sing' about keep contacting her even after she flaked out and went silent.
Isn't it about ditching your ego?

A lot of guys also 'sing' about ditching her if she doesn't put out by 2nd or 3rd date and ditching her if she doesn't act in a way he wants.

I think both are too extreme. Keep contacting her like a stalker and Ditching her like '2 strikes, you are out'

IMO, you need to pursue her by a reasonable amount and you need to be bit patient for her to open her legs.
eg)
you are a damn idiot if you run advertising once and give up. Plus you can't keep sending out the flyer to the same person who will never buy. you are a retard too if you expect the person to sign the contract right after they sat down with you.

I am sure OP was very frustrated with her. If she is that attractive, you will totally regret later 'what if I was more patient with her and saw her few more times.....' I agree you didn't have to cancel the social circle thing to see her. But you don't have to give her the attitude of 'fuck you wasted my time bitch, see ya'
Let's be honest. your time is not that precious. (you know all the girls acting really busy on online dating are huge pain in the ass)
I am just saying you do plenty of things by yourself. you can just have her as a company when you go to coffee shop, go to bookstore, go to park, go to shopping etc.
If she is not giving you any sexual pleasure like GF does, you don't have to treat her that way either.
Don't buy things for her, just hangout with her like a guy friend and see how it goes.

Post: #17

(05-28-2013 10:07 PM)Sebastian Wrote:  I don't know whose 'song' I should dance to

A lot of guys here 'sing' about keep contacting her even after she flaked out and went silent.
Isn't it about ditching your ego?

A lot of guys also 'sing' about ditching her if she doesn't put out by 2nd or 3rd date and ditching her if she doesn't act in a way he wants.

I think both are too extreme. Keep contacting her like a stalker and Ditching her like '2 strikes, you are out'

IMO, you need to pursue her by a reasonable amount and you need to be bit patient for her to open her legs.
eg)
you are a damn idiot if you run advertising once and give up. Plus you can't keep sending out the flyer to the same person who will never buy. you are a retard too if you expect the person to sign the contract right after they sat down with you.

I am sure OP was very frustrated with her. If she is that attractive, you will totally regret later 'what if I was more patient with her and saw her few more times.....' I agree you didn't have to cancel the social circle thing to see her. But you don't have to give her the attitude of 'fuck you wasted my time bitch, see ya'
Let's be honest. your time is not that precious. (you know all the girls acting really busy on online dating are huge pain in the ass)
I am just saying you do plenty of things by yourself. you can just have her as a company when you go to coffee shop, go to bookstore, go to park, go to shopping etc.
If she is not giving you any sexual pleasure like GF does, you don't have to treat her that way either.
Don't buy things for her, just hangout with her like a guy friend and see how it goes.

If sex within a particular window is your goal, yes, this particular chick was wasting his time. She gave enough clues as to who she was (talking about an ex, talking about fucking one of his boys, etc.), and how much time should be invested. This particular chick doesn't warrant a lot of patience. I agree that he shouldn't completely cut her off - he should be pursuing other chicks, and touching base with this one at his convenience, not hers. Turn her into HIS orbiter, not the other way around. If she's in his presence, attempt to escalate. If she rebuffs again, it's no big deal because you'll have others you're working on. From his description, this is a chick to be fucked, not wined, dined and dated.

Post: #18

I think guys who get a decent amount of fresh pussy reach a point where they don't want to play games or wait long for it like before. I used to have no problem driving far, meeting up with a girl I hadn't fucked yet and her friends, meeting a girl's parents, getting a 5 am booty call and taking a shower to wake myself up and going over, etc. I was doing shit that I wasn't really comfortable with because I was so obsessed with getting some. I might give a girl 3 dates if she looks really good or I enjoy being around her before I cut her off if she wont give it up, but I refuse to jump through loops or do dumb shit anymore.

The most important thing I've learned over the years concerning girls is that pussy will always be there. There's new girls turning legal every year that need and want an older guy to dick them down.

Post: #19

Depends. If OP is on a dry spell and really want to get laid, it would be advantageous to re-open this chick with a new approach. I agree that OP shouldn't be bitter with a "fuck you" attitude - just depends on if this girl is worth the investment or not. I would not recommend hanging out with her as a friend, this will place OP further in the friend zone trench. Best thing to do would make a strong move with clear sexual intent - invite her on a date at a decent lounge one-on-one and run date game. Or maybe sushi and then a lounge. Try to take her back to the crib. If she refuses to go on the date or evades she is not worth the time.

(05-28-2013 10:07 PM)Sebastian Wrote:  I don't know whose 'song' I should dance to

A lot of guys here 'sing' about keep contacting her even after she flaked out and went silent.
Isn't it about ditching your ego?

A lot of guys also 'sing' about ditching her if she doesn't put out by 2nd or 3rd date and ditching her if she doesn't act in a way he wants.

I think both are too extreme. Keep contacting her like a stalker and Ditching her like '2 strikes, you are out'

IMO, you need to pursue her by a reasonable amount and you need to be bit patient for her to open her legs.
eg)
you are a damn idiot if you run advertising once and give up. Plus you can't keep sending out the flyer to the same person who will never buy. you are a retard too if you expect the person to sign the contract right after they sat down with you.

I am sure OP was very frustrated with her. If she is that attractive, you will totally regret later 'what if I was more patient with her and saw her few more times.....' I agree you didn't have to cancel the social circle thing to see her. But you don't have to give her the attitude of 'fuck you wasted my time bitch, see ya'
Let's be honest. your time is not that precious. (you know all the girls acting really busy on online dating are huge pain in the ass)
I am just saying you do plenty of things by yourself. you can just have her as a company when you go to coffee shop, go to bookstore, go to park, go to shopping etc.
If she is not giving you any sexual pleasure like GF does, you don't have to treat her that way either.
Don't buy things for her, just hangout with her like a guy friend and see how it goes.

Post: #20

(05-28-2013 06:56 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  Nek, I like your mindset, but you should also consider you are failing her shit tests. A girl inviting you over for a platonic massage is a massive shit test. She is seeing if you will be an orbiter or if you have some dignity and a spine. Then she reminds you about a beach date. She is taking the lead and she is not going to respect you as long as you are not taking the lead. Finally, she talked about fucking your friend right in front of you. Another shit test. Seeing if you will be a compliant beta orbiter.

Also, you were trying to kiss her at her workplace, the bar, a bad idea on its face.

If you had to do this all over again, some ideas:
1. Be coy at her workplace, try to move her somewhere discreet where she will be less inhibited and more willing to kiss. Do not linger long at her bar.
2. Reject the massage invite - disqualify yourself - saying you're not that type of guy, you have to be wined and dined, not that easy etc.
3. Do not reward her for not sleeping with you by staying the night with her. If you absolutely can't go home make an excuse about how you can't share a bed and sleep on her couch, or roll over and sleep back facing her like a lump.
4. If you are less compliant I doubt she will rub her fucking your friend in your face, but if she does this is outright rude - pump and dump if you can or vaguely cut her off and don't spend time with her.

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  I've turned a corner...

While we casually use the term "manwhore" to describe a guy who sleeps around, the term more aptly applies to a man who wastes his time on women intent on wasting it. See while a woman's most valuable asset is her body, a man's is his time.

Recently, I was talking to this girl who had asked me for my number, would text me wanting to meet up all the time, told me how attractive she found me, and when we did meet up she was quite warm with me. However, when it came time to escalate, she'd shy away. When I tried to kiss her, she'd give me her cheek. So the first couple times this happened I didn't fret too much as it was in public at the place she works (she's a bartender, but this was always during closing time when the bar was nearly empty or empty). However, she invited me to her place one night and wanted me to massage her back with lotion. She took her top off in a fashion that I couldn't see her tits and laid down. While rubbing her back I started to escalate again but the same thing happened, she averted my advances. So we go to sleep and the next morning before I leave she reminds me of a beach date I said we'd go on and to text her the day before to let her know when we'd go at.

I smiled and left. On that drive home however, I realized then and there that she was wasting my time based on a few things. A) She didn't respond when I escalated, B) She'd mentioned her "asshole" ex a few times, and C) she'd talked about a friend of hers she'd fucked in front of me while at a party at her house the same night I slept over. With regard to C, I don't care about her sleeping around as I had no intention of dating her, but it goes to show she's not against casual sex, she's just against it with me.

This is where things change. She's a very attractive girl, and in the past my ego would persuade me to continue chasing this but my recent ego death had allowed me to see things more objectively. I accepted that she's not into me, which sucks for a split second until you realize how liberated you are. As a result of me accepting this, I didn't schedule the date with her and went to another beach party with a mixed group of people I know. My time with them resulted in very good progress with some girls I had previously only knew on the fringe.

So what I'm getting at is that had I let my ego get in the way, I would've wasted more of my valuable time. My need to "win" or be the best would have resulted in nothing more then time wasted ("whored out" if you will). Instead, I objectively weighed my options and chose the one that seemed better, which turned out to be correct. Humility will take you far in the dating world and life itself. Carry it with you as it will free you to see things objectively. Hope you found this post useful guys.

THISSSS

Post: #21

It does't take long when actually "gaming", not just going out collecting worthless numbers, to understand that

if pussy is what you seek then start searching for what the pussy seeks.

Women want guys that have things down pack.

Just how we can tell when a girl is approachable women can tell when a guy is doing what he suppose to in life.

There are guys out there with a lot less game than most of the guys on the forum but they get laid just as much. These guys go by the names of

The Dj at the club
The owner of the club
The club promoter
The bartender at the club
The personal trainer
The model
The photographer
The cab driver
The "sophisticated" drug dealer
The youtube celebrity
The self famous instragram user
The self famous twitter user

In the first stages of game everyone in my opinion should approach like crazy. Go out like crazy. Have all kinds of dates with all type of women.

Learn the ropes.

But once the ropes are learned it is better to take a hobby or a job that can put you in the position to have pussy while putting very minimal effort.

I always image the older me being a club owner or a high end promoter, but if I can't reach that goal, trust me, I will be a cab driver.

It will take less effort to get into a position of power than to start from scratch with every single girl.

If you are a club owner, some girls will know who you are even if you have never said a word to them. Your winning already.

I have this philosophy that even if two men have the same tools available to them, one of them will build a masterpiece while one will build something that creates masterpieces for him.

Post: #22

(05-28-2013 04:32 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  Great post Gio, and great thread so far, but I got to say that this seems like a slight departure or shift from attitudes that you seemed to have expressed in the past.

My perspective has evolved a little.

But, not in terms of "M.O.B.". I have always preached "m.o.b".

(05-28-2013 04:32 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought you valued game (pussy) > over money

No, I don't think I have ever said that.

I went back to your classic "M.O.B." thread..

Here were my responses:

(07-03-2010 03:55 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  If your still asking yourself this question, you just need to fuck a few more chicks, the answer should be obvious.

Notice the date: This was back in 2010.

I thought it was obvious to everyone.

Money > pussy

The rich guys have been saying this forever.

(12-13-2011 05:46 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches) is a term that was created by rappers right?

Didn't Tupac make this famous?

He could have banged different women everyday of his life. He also could have focused on business and making money. His advice was money over bitches. What does that tell you? A man who had women throwing themselves at him is telling us to choose money over hoes.

When you literally have millions of dollars and thousands of hoes, I will listen carefully to your opinion.

When you are not getting girls, they seem priceless. When you are fucking a few of them, they seem worthless for anything except sex. I guess it just comes down to individual preference. Some guys need the security of money to be happy, others would rather have a steady supply of p*ssy to be happy. I like a healthy balance of both.

When it comes to this topic, I listen to the guys that have BOTH.

Rich guys who have banged alot of girls, those are the best people to talk to about this.

Most of them say $ > sex.

(12-14-2011 02:58 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I am only highlighting the fact that he made alot of money and banged many, many women. And, after all that, he said "money over bitches". This leads me to believe that money is more important women. The only guys qualified to speak on this issue are guys who have made alot of money and banged alot of girls. If a man hasn't experienced both in large amounts, how would he know which is more important...?

Tupac did experience both in large amounts. That why I respect his opinion on this subject. His financial decisions, lifestyle, and music are different topics all together..

So, you can see that I have always been "m.o.b."

The shift in my perspective is this..

I no longer want to work for pussy. In the past, I would invest time and energy into learning game. I knew I needed to do 1000-2000 approaches in order to learn the skills and gain the confidence. Now, I have the skills and the confidence. So, now, my strategy has changed..

Now, I try to make girls chase me. I bait them. I set traps for them. I try to invite them into my world. I am dressing better, speaking better, looking better. I want them to open me.

I have gotten a lot of pussy. I know I have game. I don't need to prove it to myself anymore. I know I can do it.

So, now, I have stopped spending time, energy, and money chasing pussy.

If she doesn't want to travel and come and see me on my terms then I'm not interested.

In the past, I would invest my time and energy because I was still learning, I needed the practice. Now, I don't need the practice. I want convenience. I want it my way. I will not adjust my schedule or rearrange my life. She has to be the one to sacrifice. I am the prize.

I guess my confidence has just gone up and I no longer need to invest time and energy for "practice".

I have gone to a higher level.

I have had plenty of sex with plenty of girls. I am not desperate about it. It's my way or the highway.

I feel really good about this new attitude.

I hope this answers your question.

Post: #23

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  I've turned a corner...

SOME OTHER BULLSHIT

So what I'm getting at is that had I let my ego get in the way, I would've wasted more of my valuable time. My need to "win" or be the best would have resulted in nothing more then time wasted ("whored out" if you will). Instead, I objectively weighed my options and chose the one that seemed better, which turned out to be correct. Humility will take you far in the dating world and life itself. Carry it with you as it will free you to see things objectively. Hope you found this post useful guys.

So the op said he's turned a corner, but many in here are giving advice about not just turning the corner, but getting on that next level shit.

Until you've been opened by a girl who is dying to know more about you, until you've had an attractive girl wake her ass up, go pick you up some food and bring it back for you because you're hungry, until you've had a hot girl lay you down in her bed so she can give you a lengthy massage (not some bullshit ass massage) just because she wants to make you feel good and take care of her man, until you've done any of that, you would also think that the next level shit is bogus.

It's not. Turn a corner, but be ready and open to turn more corners and push yourself further. It's about catching those signs on the drive home and then realizing that he should've caught the earlier signs before wasting his time in the first place. It's about eventually being in a position that the girl never even CAN waste his time, because she's acquiescing to his request, not the other way around.

Post: #24

In the end your ego got stroked by publicly posting this thread. Either the girl or "likes"/replies from the internet, the ego doesn't care how it's fed.

Post: #25

(05-27-2013 07:55 PM)nek Wrote:  So what I'm getting at is that had I let my ego get in the way, I would've wasted more of my valuable time. My need to "win" or be the best would have resulted in nothing more then time wasted ("whored out" if you will). Instead, I objectively weighed my options and chose the one that seemed better, which turned out to be correct. Humility will take you far in the dating world and life itself. Carry it with you as it will free you to see things objectively. Hope you found this post useful guys.

Things did not go very well in your last date... getting hammered and asking her to stay with the excuse that you're uncapable to drive may work, but can also put you also in a fragile position, specially if she's not as hammered as you (been there, done that...).

When things get messed up, I also think it's much better to leave. If she's interested, she will ask you to meet her again. Then, you don't spend time: date with escalation and no hesitations. If she rejects your approach, at least she will know what you're in for.

I know many guys who are orbiting girls for months, sometimes for years... It may work in some cases, but usually this only leads to big failures and frustration. And lots of anger towards the girl.