Post: #26

I think Kerouac's definition of an alpha is better than Lumiere's. Yes I agree with Lumiere though that I actually think there's a very fine line between what our society considers a criminal act and being alpha. G Manifesto can attest to that.

Lumiere says that an alpha is defined thusly:

"Your masculinity. Your strength as a person. Your positivity and warmth."

Masculinity is a complex concept that nobody will agree fully what it means, but Sheen's "I dont give a fuck what you think" attitude towards life and sex sure seems to make him pretty masculine to me. Also, whether or not he is paying his lays is irrelevant since many women WANT him.


His unwavering confidence is a sure sign of his strength as a person. He controls his frame and doesn't live the way other people expect him to. He's his own man.


Positivity and warmth are now alpha traits? Debatable at best. These are a helluva lot more feminine traits than masculine ones. The man takes on the world, the woman provides the warmth and comfort at home.

Post: #27

(03-03-2011 02:30 AM)kerouac Wrote:  He married Denise Richards

Having a failed marriage to a chick who describes you as a 'stranger' despite having kids with you and is now more interested in banging Richie Sambora makes you alpha?

Post: #28

i love the bit in the howard stern interview where he talks about mel gibson

i always thought charlie was a good actor although that 2.5 men show annoys the fuck out of me

Platoon, Hot Shorts part deux: how much better can it get???

Post: #29

Does it matter? If he pays for chicks, if hes a alpha male or beta. if he does coke or anything else people dissagree with. He might be going down hill or he might not. From the looks of it hes living a life he wants. Also it looks like hes lived more in a week then most people ever will.

Post: #30

(03-03-2011 03:22 AM)gringoed Wrote:  Sheen's "I dont give a fuck what you think" attitude towards life and sex sure seems to make him pretty masculine to me.

You can arrive at such an attitude a number of ways for example.

1) Being a hardcore dude who's has healthy and strong self-esteem and radiates a magnetic vibe that draws people into their world. A world where you set the rules.

2) Naricism and ego fuelled by drugs and celebrity

3) Psychosis (like the serial killer / stalker example)

Watch any interview with him you want and all that comes across is 2 and 3 and NEVER 1.

People in category 1 have a natural swagger about them, not bombast.

(03-03-2011 03:22 AM)gringoed Wrote:  Also, whether or not he is paying his lays is irrelevant since many women WANT him.

No it is not irrelevant. A chick insisting that she be paid 10k to tolerate your presence over dinner or for sex - and you paying her - is buying into her frame that you yourself are totally worthless and somebody who must pay people just to tolerate your company. Weak. Weak. Weak.

Ask yourself one question. The two chicks he is with now. How long do you think they would stick around if all his cash disappeared and he became broke and un-employable.

(03-03-2011 03:22 AM)gringoed Wrote:  His unwavering confidence is a sure sign of his strength as a person

Nobody with 'unwavering confidence' constantly extolls to the world all the time that they are a 'winner' and that they are 'winning'. The only people that do that are doing that because they are dealing with their own out of whack ego and self esteem.

In a recent interview he stated he was 'not bi-polar but bi-winner'. Erm, they does not make any sense does it?

(03-03-2011 03:22 AM)gringoed Wrote:  Positivity and warmth are now alpha traits? Debatable at best. These are a helluva lot more feminine traits than masculine ones. The man takes on the world, the woman provides the warmth and comfort at home.

You are confusing being positive with being nuturing. Sure being nuturing is a female trait far more than a male one but you yourslef have met many dudes in the comminity. Some good with women, some bad.

How many dudes have you been impressed with that were fundamentally negative people?

All the dudes I have met and have been impressed with in the community all have one thing in common. They are positive people.

Their positivity and warmth are not given to women that have not earnt it however.

Being connected to your masculinity + strong frame but negative person = douchebag.

Sheen isn't even a dochebag because his frame is too weak.

As for his twitter feed, giving that guy twitter is like giving a megaphone to a Tourettes sufferer.

Post: #31

Lots of alpha revisionism in this thread. With some of your nitpicky and specific definitions of alpha, maybe five guys in the world would be considered one.

Post: #32

(03-03-2011 03:22 AM)gringoed Wrote:  Also, whether or not he is paying his lays is irrelevant since many women WANT him.

No it is not irrelevant. A chick insisting that she be paid 10k to tolerate your presence over dinner or for sex - and you paying her - is buying into her frame that you yourself are totally worthless and somebody who must pay people just to tolerate your company. Weak. Weak. Weak.


The way you phrase that you make it sound like he doesnt know up front theyre hookers. He knows full well and actively seeks these type of women out because he knows he can treat them poorly if he wants and do a shit ton of blow in front of them without worrying about them selling the story as quickly as some regular chick although one of the chicks he paid has been talking alot. Most regular girls arent just gonna sit there for a week while some madman goes on a drug induced bender waiting at his beck and call to fuck him when hes finally ready theyre going to get the fuck out of there but if Im paying you 10 Gs youre going to sit your ass on the couch until Im good and ready to fuck. Its got NOTHING to do with his frame of being worthless. When youre talking about high end prostitution for rich people its a convenience issue for them bought just like anything else in their life.

Post: #33

Hello? Winning anyone?....rhymes with winning

Post: #34

(03-03-2011 01:43 PM)Jack Frost Wrote:  

(03-03-2011 03:22 AM)gringoed Wrote:  Also, whether or not he is paying his lays is irrelevant since many women WANT him.

No it is not irrelevant. A chick insisting that she be paid 10k to tolerate your presence over dinner or for sex - and you paying her - is buying into her frame that you yourself are totally worthless and somebody who must pay people just to tolerate your company. Weak. Weak. Weak.


The way you phrase that you make it sound like he doesnt know up front theyre hookers. He knows full well and actively seeks these type of women out because he knows he can treat them poorly if he wants and do a shit ton of blow in front of them without worrying about them selling the story as quickly as some regular chick although one of the chicks he paid has been talking alot. Most regular girls arent just gonna sit there for a week while some madman goes on a drug induced bender waiting at his beck and call to fuck him when hes finally ready theyre going to get the fuck out of there but if Im paying you 10 Gs youre going to sit your ass on the couch until Im good and ready to fuck. Its got NOTHING to do with his frame of being worthless. When youre talking about high end prostitution for rich people its a convenience issue for them bought just like anything else in their life.

You're not listening to the other people in the thread.

You're right that he actively seeks hookers, the part you're missing is WHY he does it (re-read Mikey Mike's reply). Do you really think he has trouble picking up hot chicks at a bar? Do you think if you were at a bar with him that you could win girls away from him? Of course not.

Besides, now he's living with two "goddesses" (side note: is calling them Charlies Angels too obvious?) that seem to just be into him and along for the wild ride. Saying that he's buying into their frame is ridiculous. He's in total control.

This is a Hugh Hephner lifestyle. Is Hephner an Omega because he throws a lot of money around and part of the reason his bunnies act as his slave is for the career advancement opportunities. Of course not, he's his own man. Self-made and living exactly as he wants to, just like Sheen. Pure alpha.

Post: #35

Let's do a thought experiment. Would Sheen be Alpha if he didn't have money or fame and carried on the way he does now? Let's say he made the avg American income.

I think he would be called a loser and I doubt many women would want to fuck him IMHO.

You guys deciding that he's alpha probably aren't considering the laundry list of pathetic shit he's done like beating girls (I think he had a gf that mysteriously disappeared and don't forget trying to stab his wife with a knife), and his ridiculous liberal rants. I've realized that "Alpha" doesn't seem to have a universal definition. I'll just submit to you that an Alpha doesn't have addictions (in sheen's case, drugs, whores) and is respected (if not liked) by his peers and the people he comes into contact with. I get the sense that most people think he's a moron.

Post: #36

You ever been drunk or high or both with a beautiful woman in a nice location and you just get that feeling of "nirvana".

Everything just slows down and the whole world seems crystal clear. You are in "The Zone". Your speech slows down and everything you say makes perfect sense, in a deep, poetic, sexy, primal kind of way. You really don't even have to talk to girls because when you look at them they smile and giggle.

You could talk the panties off of a fucking supermodel right now. You feel like you are on top of the world, because at that moment, you are.

Now multiply that by a fucking billion! I think thats about where Charlie is right now.

Is he an "alpha"?

He is sure living like one right now.

But its more about the words "Celebrity", and "Movie Star" ,then it is about "alpha" and "beta".

If he does something stupid and goes to prison we might have to start calling "bitch".

Great fucking interview tho.

Post: #37

(03-03-2011 06:38 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Let's do a thought experiment. Would Sheen be Alpha if he didn't have money or fame and carried on the way he does now? Let's say he made the avg American income.

I think he would be called a loser and I doubt many women would want to fuck him IMHO.

You guys deciding that he's alpha probably aren't considering the laundry list of pathetic shit he's done like beating girls (I think he had a gf that mysteriously disappeared and don't forget trying to stab his wife with a knife), and his ridiculous liberal rants. I've realized that "Alpha" doesn't seem to have a universal definition. I'll just submit to you that an Alpha doesn't have addictions (in sheen's case, drugs, whores) and is respected (if not liked) by his peers and the people he comes into contact with. I get the sense that most people think he's a moron.

1000% Winning

Post: #38

The way I look at it if I was Sheen id fuck pornstars and hookers. In his world money has no value and it would be the easiest way to get the end result.

Hey fisto, your a alpha male. Im assuming your saying that Sheen doesnt have the confidence with out those outside factors? As far as pathetic list and people thinking the dude is a idiot. Cant that be said about anyone?

Post: #39

(03-03-2011 08:33 PM)BazzookaBalls Wrote:  The way I look at it if I was Sheen id fuck pornstars and hookers. In his world money has no value and it would be the easiest way to get the end result.

Hey fisto, your a alpha male. Im assuming your saying that Sheen doesnt have the confidence with out those outside factors? As far as pathetic list and people thinking the dude is a idiot. Cant that be said about anyone?

No, mostly trolls on forums tho.

Post: #40

(03-03-2011 06:38 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Let's do a thought experiment. Would Sheen be Alpha if he didn't have money or fame and carried on the way he does now? Let's say he made the avg American income.

Fisto, you know youre my boy but I disagree with the thought process here. You cant play the "what if" scenario because that can be applied to anything. What if shaq wasnt 7'1 what if bill gates wasnt so smart what if Roosh couldnt write. Theres a million what ifs they just dont matter because he does have that much money.

Now with that being said I dont exactly believe in the things hes doing and I think hes batshit crazy. My argument was essentially on the thought process of because someone fucks hookers theyre not Alpha and I just dont believe that at all.

We need to roll out one day by the way.

Post: #41

(03-03-2011 01:43 PM)Jack Frost Wrote:  

(03-03-2011 03:22 AM)gringoed Wrote:  Also, whether or not he is paying his lays is irrelevant since many women WANT him.

No it is not irrelevant. A chick insisting that she be paid 10k to tolerate your presence over dinner or for sex - and you paying her - is buying into her frame that you yourself are totally worthless and somebody who must pay people just to tolerate your company. Weak. Weak. Weak.


The way you phrase that you make it sound like he doesnt know up front theyre hookers. He knows full well and actively seeks these type of women out because he knows he can treat them poorly if he wants and do a shit ton of blow in front of them without worrying about them selling the story as quickly as some regular chick although one of the chicks he paid has been talking alot. Most regular girls arent just gonna sit there for a week while some madman goes on a drug induced bender waiting at his beck and call to fuck him when hes finally ready theyre going to get the fuck out of there but if Im paying you 10 Gs youre going to sit your ass on the couch until Im good and ready to fuck. Its got NOTHING to do with his frame of being worthless. When youre talking about high end prostitution for rich people its a convenience issue for them bought just like anything else in their life.

I did hear a quote attributed to him once that I liked about hookers. "I don't pay them for sex, I pay them to leave." hahaha

The guy is pretty fucking funny.

Post: #42

(03-03-2011 06:38 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Let's do a thought experiment. Would Sheen be Alpha if he didn't have money or fame and carried on the way he does now? Let's say he made the avg American income.

I think he would be called a loser and I doubt many women would want to fuck him IMHO.

You guys deciding that he's alpha probably aren't considering the laundry list of pathetic shit he's done like beating girls (I think he had a gf that mysteriously disappeared and don't forget trying to stab his wife with a knife), and his ridiculous liberal rants. I've realized that "Alpha" doesn't seem to have a universal definition. I'll just submit to you that an Alpha doesn't have addictions (in sheen's case, drugs, whores) and is respected (if not liked) by his peers and the people he comes into contact with. I get the sense that most people think he's a moron.

I have no idea where being alpha means you have to be respected. Be respected by who? Other alphas? I'm sure you note how circular this is.

Anyway, Charlie Sheen without the fame/money would be my friend Karl: http://www.rooshv.com/the-medellin-diaries-1

For those of you who say that Charlie Sheen is no alpha, you're going to have to provide examples of who you think is alpha, and if you use Sean Connery my head will explode.

Post: #43

(03-03-2011 10:17 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-03-2011 06:38 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Let's do a thought experiment. Would Sheen be Alpha if he didn't have money or fame and carried on the way he does now? Let's say he made the avg American income.

I think he would be called a loser and I doubt many women would want to fuck him IMHO.

You guys deciding that he's alpha probably aren't considering the laundry list of pathetic shit he's done like beating girls (I think he had a gf that mysteriously disappeared and don't forget trying to stab his wife with a knife), and his ridiculous liberal rants. I've realized that "Alpha" doesn't seem to have a universal definition. I'll just submit to you that an Alpha doesn't have addictions (in sheen's case, drugs, whores) and is respected (if not liked) by his peers and the people he comes into contact with. I get the sense that most people think he's a moron.

I have no idea where being alpha means you have to be respected. Be respected by who? Other alphas? I'm sure you note how circular this is.

Anyway, Charlie Sheen without the fame/money would be my friend Karl: http://www.rooshv.com/the-medellin-diaries-1

For those of you who say that Charlie Sheen is no alpha, you're going to have to provide examples of who you think is alpha, and if you use Sean Connery my head will explode.

Well Roosh, have you ever noticed that even when there are no girls around and it's just a group of guys, one emerges as the leader of what is going to be done for the evening/event/place of venue? Even if it's circular, I think that's a good measure.

Rampage Jackson is an Alpha. He quietly controls a situation through humor and presence. He says, "Let's go over here" and everyone is happy to do it. Everyone that knows the guy respects him. That guy is a self made man. I just can't get behind Sheen because he grew up with his daddy's success and connections. Plus, I've known a few actors and they're all insecure prima donnas who act like spoiled children when they don't get their way . I can't help but think sheen is one of these types. Frost said that his money and fame are a part of him but, I don't think they are since he was privileged with connections in Hollywood. Shaq was gifted with a physique (among other attributes) that gave him a physical advantage. Bill gates (not even close to an alpha IMO) had access to a computer (when few at the time did) and spent 1000s of hrs programming and also had a mind for it. You have a work ethic and a desire that has made you good with women. Do you really think you could hang out with this guy for 6 hrs and listen to him tell you how great he thinks he is in between bumps in the bathroom stall? I think he's worth looking at the same way a trainwreck is. I like an anti hero too, but I don't think Sheen is alpha. My 2 cents.


Other Alphas IMO:

Randy Couture, Forrest Griffin, Jason Miller, Tito Ortiz, Dana White, Clint Eastwood, Robert Duvall, Tommy Lee Jones, 50 cent, Ice Cube. Just to name a few off the top of my head.

Post: #44

Harrison Ford.

Post: #45

I wasnt listing those people as being Alpha I was just listing them as people that you could apply a what if scenario to and they wouldnt be where they are which is applicable to everyone. My point was that theres no point in playing or thinking what if scenarios.

With that being said Bill Gates is damn for sure Alpha. Hes consistently ranked in the top 3 richest people in the world and is self made, he has or can get the ear of any # of the most important people on the planet. He would command any room he walked into.

The definition of Alpha is very liquid in its definition as is evident in this thread we all have very different beliefs in what is truly Alpha. In this day and age its not all about being the biggest and strongest as we dont live in prehistoric times. Technology and the evolution of society has leveled the playing field for smarter guys with drive to become just as alpha as a lot of the guys you listed.

Post: #46

(03-04-2011 12:24 AM)Jack Frost Wrote:  I wasnt listing those people as being Alpha I was just listing them as people that you could apply a what if scenario to and they wouldnt be where they are which is applicable to everyone. My point was that theres no point in playing or thinking what if scenarios.

With that being said Bill Gates is damn for sure Alpha. Hes consistently ranked in the top 3 richest people in the world and is self made, he has or can get the ear of any # of the most important people on the planet. He would command any room he walked into.

The definition of Alpha is very liquid in its definition as is evident in this thread we all have very different beliefs in what is truly Alpha. In this day and age its not all about being the biggest and strongest as we dont live in prehistoric times. Technology and the evolution of society has leveled the playing field for smarter guys with drive to become just as alpha as a lot of the guys you listed.

I was just listing guys who I think of as being well rounded, not because of their physical prowess but because of their well roundedness (something I think Gates lacks, for instance I doubt many women stay attracted to him), They're successful and alpha in their professional lives and they are massively attractive to women. Also, I think if Sheen pulled some of his antics around these dudes, they'd wind up donkey konging him. Again, I just think some are looking at Sheen and enjoying the sound bites without considering what that turns into when it's 24/7 "I'm winning!" Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if he had foreknowledge of the interviewers questions. At any rate, I'm not hung up on whether Sheen is or isn't an alpha and I know most here aren't either. I reckon this is a good exercise to figure out how we want to mold our own lives.

Post: #47

BTW, Roosh, your buddy Karl seemed like a very entertaining/fun guy.

Post: #48

(03-04-2011 01:14 AM)Fisto Wrote:  At any rate, I'm not hung up on whether Sheen is or isn't an alpha and I know most here aren't either. I reckon this is a good exercise to figure out how we want to mold our own lives.

The great thing about this whole "fiasco" is that it's the first celebrity news story that is actually entertaining to watch, and he's taking full advantage of it to act as crazy and funny as possible.

This whole break-down is funnier than any episode of 2 1/2 men. They might as well forget the show and just put him on for a half hour every day.

Post: #49

The problem with judging the alpha-ness of celebrities is that their celebrity masks their natural abilities. Any guy that earns celebrity and wealth can live a playboy lifestyle in the fast lane. His money and fame alone will cause people to follow. But what happens when that celebrity factor is taken away? Does the light still shine? Hugh Hefner is a perfect example. He's actually pretty beta when you read more about him, but he's carved out a niche and a cult of personality was built around him. And now he has 20 year old blonds wanting to suck his viagra flavored cock because...well, he's Hugh Hefner, and that's what they are supposed to do, right? Take away his celebrity status and how is that old fart going to be banging nubile blonds? Not on his personality.

Post: #50

Want an example of non celeb alpha?

Jesse James

Dude has had porn stars (Janine Lindemulder) and A list celebs (Sandra Bullock) queueing up to marry him and all he did was run a motorbike shop in LA (a job he describes on his blog as 'glorified welder')

Dude is seriously alpha if you read about him and his blog.

Put him in a bar with Charlie Sheen, remove Sheens money and celebrity and there is just no contest.

Actually even if you let him keep his money and celebrity there would not be a contest. Charlie would get all the gold diggers and hookers, sure, but that makes him a mug and nothing more.