Post: #1

HI,

I did a search of threads and couldn't find what I was looking for. The "travel - life is better abroad" monster has surfaced and I just wanna get out. I was just thinking about actually owning a piece of real estate abroad and how it could at least lock down some expense from rising in the future if I were to be on a fixed cash flow.

So has anyone bought a piece of property abroad and do you regret it? I know some have.

Also, of anyone is willing to share what was the cost to get in and were you able to get clean title or did you need a local to help you buy it (and they may on paper actually own part of it).

Thanks.

Here are some of the links I have found during my search but nothing specifically about being happy with having bought a piece of real estate.
/thread-20566.html
Buying real estate in Mexico/Argentina/Uruguay
/post-28128.html
Real Estate in other countries (mainly it was about SA)
/thread-3943.html
Buying a cheap Condo abroad

Post: #2

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Post: #3

I totally agree it could probably be pretty cheap. I saw something on HBO called "Vice." This past episode was about Spain and Greece and the impact of the economy. A little too crazy for me lol. It might get vene cheaper in a few years with the way their economies are going.

Post: #4

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Post: #5

I'v been scouting the net for the same thing last days.

I want a beach house with a good wave not far from it.

http://internationalliving.com/2012/03/t...s-in-2012/

Post: #6

Pants, thanks for the link.

A lot of people say it is easy to rent when not there etc. But is it really that easy? Based on my life experiences, nothing is as easy as someone else says it is.

DickDastardly: Think it will get worse in Europe? The HBO show hinted at that.

I get I would need to see a lot of places first to really think it is a good idea to buy something abroad. Need to hit the road.

Post: #7

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Post: #8

I do.

And I've gotten all my tenants through Craigslist.

And I've had no vacancies.

And they pay me via bank transfer.

So far, so good.

Post: #9

(05-01-2013 02:39 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  You could probably pick up a place in Spain or Greece for peanuts now. Certainly worth checking out. In Spain they turn a blind eye to people buying with cash they are trying to hide from the taxman. Black money is what they call it.

Is this pure speculation, or have you seen deals? Can you link some up?

Can you elaborate a little?

Post: #10

I own a 2(3 ROOM)bedroom in Odessa,Ukraine. I bought for 34k in 2003. Before the crash it was worth 120k. Now 50-60K. i would wait to see whats going on in the market.When interest rates move up I see home values dropping again.

Post: #11

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Post: #12

(05-01-2013 05:37 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  Sure man, I have a 3 bed villa on the Costa Blanca near Alicante.

Can you break down what you paid, and when and what it was worth at it's peak?

Do you mind saying where? Coastal town or inland?

Quote:Know a lot of Irish and British that invested heavily there during the boom and who are now struggling and are offloading the property for a lot less than what they paid for it.

An example?

Quote:Apartments are going crazy cheap, as low as 30grand in places when they would have been nearer 90grand 5-6 years ago.

Where?

Post: #13

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Post: #14

DickDastardly,

What are your monthly expenses on it? In the US if you are in a condo, you pay HOA fees for the common area stuff.

jimukr104,

For a foreigner is it possible to even own the property outright? Or do you need to work with a local to own it? In respect to rates rising, is it even possible for a foreigner to obtain a mortgage?

Thanks for the info everyone!

Post: #15

(05-01-2013 05:43 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  Actually I just remembered this one site because they also sell yachts haha


http://www.z-yachting.com/en

Cool site.

Why is there no Alicante on it?

I have been to Altea. Here is a one bedroom. http://www.z-yachting.com/en/for-sale?vi...rty&id=139

$210,000 Euros. Not really that cheap for a one bedroom.

Post: #16

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Post: #17

Cool, yeah I saw better pricing in Torrevieja.

Altea is not cheap on that site. And for some reason there is no Alicate, which are the two places I have been.

How is Torrevieja? Can you bust out a little sheet on that place?

The coasts of Spain has always been one of my favorite places.

Post: #18

I own 4 houses in Cabarete, Dominican Republic. I built them in 2007. What I didn't realize is there is no real financing in this country. The good thing is the upkeep cost are really low. No property tax. I have a guy that lives on the property and takes care of the pool, etc and he makes $125 month.

I need to focus more on renting it out and generating money. Right now, I usually bring girls there for the weekend.

Post: #19

i heard a good story in Ukraine about a pretty smart Brit biz guy I trust who explained how his property changed hands in a mistrustful, paranoid, cash-oriented culture.

His hired muscle ( 2 guys) , the attorneys, the sellers, and him showed up at the bank which had been alerted beforehand to insure they'd have the whole sale price in cash on hand for the transaction.

1) The buyer (my friend) had the required money in an account at that bank.

2) They all went to a conference room, the attorneys looked at the contracts.

3) The money was withdrawn from my friend's account into stacks of cash and the deal was done in the room.

4) The cash was handed over in the bank to the sellers.

5) The sellers deposited the money into that same bank so:
a.) the cash never had to be carried anywhere in public
b) the bank was obligated to accept the notes ( banks will sometimes/often refuse worn notes. here they were dealing with notes they themselves had given out so they couldn't easily do that)

6) So the buyer walked in to the bank carrying no cash, left with the key, and was able to do a cash buy without anyone carrying cash in public.

As far as I know, there is no property tax in Ukraine. Some are so poor, they might not be able to pay any appreciable amount; although they inherited apartments when apartments were given away to their holders at the end of the FSU.

There are a LOT of weird catches to property there. Everyone puts off maintenance of roofs and sometimes there is huge hidden damage. I have no idea how title insurance works. I've heard it takes several years to sue someone, so don't count on that.

Post: #20

Man, maybe renting is better. Would love to hear about Poland. Through the vast knowledge on this board, I am thinking Poland may be the place for me...once again, I should visit it first. lol.

Post: #21

Maybe this thread would be better if people that own property would tell a little story about how they did it.

IE, process, red tape, cost, how it has worked out, pros, cons, taxes, fees etc.

I would be interested in that information.

Post: #22

(05-01-2013 07:05 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Man, maybe renting is better. Would love to hear about Poland. Through the vast knowledge on this board, I am thinking Poland may be the place for me...once again, I should visit it first. lol.

Have you looked into Hungary?

Some pretty good prices and loads of properties for sale there.

Post: #23

(05-01-2013 05:50 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  DickDastardly,

What are your monthly expenses on it? In the US if you are in a condo, you pay HOA fees for the common area stuff.

jimukr104,

For a foreigner is it possible to even own the property outright? Or do you need to work with a local to own it? In respect to rates rising, is it even possible for a foreigner to obtain a mortgage?

Thanks for the info everyone!

YES foreigners can own FLATS and houses. Back then they couldn't own agriculture land.
Paid cash. US banks will not give mortgages for overseas property as far as i know.
Monthly my fees average about 50 dollars a month. $35 in months when no heating and $65 in winter months. The way it works is that the city bills you for heat, you have no control if you use it or not. I am not there so i have no electric bill but Electricity is dirt cheap in Ukraine due to lots of nuclear plants and coal. 3 cents per kwh I believe. There is no payment for common area because if you have been to FSU you will notice the common area is not taken care of. lol. You pay a fee to an organization that fixes common stuff called ZHEK. my wife was with me when i bought it BUT IT IS NOT MARITAL PROPERTY.I paid with non marital funds. Most of my assets are non marital , as well as most of my pension(disability)You should always protect your property rights that means doing things the legal way. Most Ukrainians skip the legality issues when purchasing apts and have trouble later on.
For 15 bucks a month you can get fast speed internet (50 mb speed) and phone. Satelite tv 10 bucks and cell phone is cheap. Ukraine is expensive but things like fast internet, cable tv, etc are cheap due to competition. I think there are like 2 dozen ISP's in Odessa.\
If you own a flat you can probably live on 500 bucks a month in Ukraine.i know guys who spend 300 a month.Odessa is the second most expensive city in Ukraine after Kiev and number 1 expensive in the world if you are dating DUE to the mercenary chicks there BTW lol.

Post: #24

(05-01-2013 06:54 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  i heard a good story in Ukraine about a pretty smart Brit biz guy I trust who explained how his property changed hands in a mistrustful, paranoid, cash-oriented culture.

His hired muscle ( 2 guys) , the attorneys, the sellers, and him showed up at the bank which had been alerted beforehand to insure they'd have the whole sale price in cash on hand for the transaction.

1) The buyer (my friend) had the required money in an account at that bank.

2) They all went to a conference room, the attorneys looked at the contracts.

3) The money was withdrawn from my friend's account into stacks of cash and the deal was done in the room.

4) The cash was handed over in the bank to the sellers.

5) The sellers deposited the money into that same bank so:
a.) the cash never had to be carried anywhere in public
b) the bank was obligated to accept the notes ( banks will sometimes/often refuse worn notes. here they were dealing with notes they themselves had given out so they couldn't easily do that)

6) So the buyer walked in to the bank carrying no cash, left with the key, and was able to do a cash buy without anyone carrying cash in public.

As far as I know, there is no property tax in Ukraine. Some are so poor, they might not be able to pay any appreciable amount; although they inherited apartments when apartments were given away to their holders at the end of the FSU.

There are a LOT of weird catches to property there. Everyone puts off maintenance of roofs and sometimes there is huge hidden damage. I have no idea how title insurance works. I've heard it takes several years to sue someone, so don't count on that.

You cant trust insurance companies BUT unless building blows up(known to happen) not much worries .the walls are thick concrete. When one apt catches on fire the other apts are fine.
The above situation of buyer/seller is pretty much how it went when i bought the flat. NO one trusted the other. There was a sales tax. I apid it , most don't but I wanted to be in the legal right to avoid potential issues later on. For exampLE by law the seller had to contact his ex wife, etc/
This year property taxes have started on flats over 120 sqm. My flat is half of that so i don't pay. If you sell flats there is a tax also. 15% for locals , 25% for foreigners I think. it only effects apts sold after 2005.If I SOLD MINE THE TAX WOULD BE 1%.

Post: #25

Oh yeah avoid buying flat on top floor. If roof has an issue you will be the one stuck paying to get it fixed. Also if the building has many floors and an elevator do not buy above floor 5 or 6. Alot of time elevators stop working. You want to be on a floor you can easily walk up and down from. Also avoid the first floor. You will get broken into more often if on the first floor. They are even known to crash though the outside wall to get to you. 4th and 3rd floor are safest floor. Of city is old like Odessa avoid buying I the center. The buildings are so old that yOu will at one poin have alot of renovation to do. I mean expensive structural stuff. I bought in the summer nightclub area for that reason. It's where the rich live. I saw flats in the center where my foot literally went though the wooden floor as I walked on it. Remember the countries are not America. They don't have building codes etc.