Post: #1

Fortunately, this doesn't happen too frequently at work, but how do you guys deal with getting called out work (during a meeting). I happen to work with a few abrasive guys who are first to point fingers of blame, yet never take responsibility for their own actions.

To be fair, this guy had a point and it was my mistake. There are three possibilities that I see for myself:

- Let it go and move on to the next thing
- Stew and figure out the areas where he made mistakes, basically stoop to his level and make him pay on each instance that there is an issue
- Something else?

I need your advice in dealing with this matter. I know that everyone goes through BS at work, how do you deal with it?

Post: #2

Quote:I know that everyone goes through BS at work, how do you deal with it?

Throw them out or kick ass.

Post: #3

(03-29-2013 10:05 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:I know that everyone goes through BS at work, how do you deal with it?

Throw them out or kick ass.

I wish I could El Mech.

I realize that I am sounding like a little bitch at the moment, but until I can find something credible for an income source, I'll have to continue to put up with this nonsense.

Post: #4

If he makes a valid point, accept it. The best thing to do when you fuck up is to own it.

If he's a nitpicky bitch then call him on it, especially if he's passive aggressive about it. The best thing to do with passive aggressive people is to be actively aggressive in response.

Post: #5

(03-29-2013 10:03 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:  Fortunately, this doesn't happen too frequently at work, but how do you guys deal with getting called out work (during a meeting). I happen to work with a few abrasive guys who are first to point fingers of blame, yet never take responsibility for their own actions.

To be fair, this guy had a point and it was my mistake. There are three possibilities that I see for myself:

- Let it go and move on to the next thing
- Stew and figure out the areas where he made mistakes, basically stoop to his level and make him pay on each instance that there is an issue
- Something else?

I need your advice in dealing with this matter. I know that everyone goes through BS at work, how do you deal with it?

I suggest drinking the kool aide, playing the corporate game, and raising your game to avoid being called out. Take it as a learning experience.

Post: #6

(03-29-2013 10:16 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  If he makes a valid point, accept it. The best thing to do when you fuck up is to own it.

If he's a nitpicky bitch then call him on it, especially if he's passive aggressive about it. The best thing to do with passive aggressive people is to be actively aggressive in response.

Sounds fair. The thing is: I'll have PLENTY of opportunities to highlight his mistakes, so the best approach might be to just wait for the right opportunity to pounce.

Post: #7

(03-29-2013 10:19 AM)jvent68 Wrote:  

(03-29-2013 10:03 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:  Fortunately, this doesn't happen too frequently at work, but how do you guys deal with getting called out work (during a meeting). I happen to work with a few abrasive guys who are first to point fingers of blame, yet never take responsibility for their own actions.

To be fair, this guy had a point and it was my mistake. There are three possibilities that I see for myself:

- Let it go and move on to the next thing
- Stew and figure out the areas where he made mistakes, basically stoop to his level and make him pay on each instance that there is an issue
- Something else?

I need your advice in dealing with this matter. I know that everyone goes through BS at work, how do you deal with it?

I suggest drinking the kool aide, playing the corporate game, and raising your game to avoid being called out. Take it as a learning experience.

This is what I'm thinking. I am just trying to focus on getting my stuff in order at this point. Thanks for the advice!

Post: #8

Let it blow over and try not to make another mistake.

Post: #9

Get a few guys to break his legs

Easy

Post: #10

Pointing out someones mistake is bush league. It means they are scared of losing their job.

Also being defensive when it is clearly wrong just makes you look dumb, own it in a positive manner.

1. When someone calls you out and its legitimately wrong admit fault and find a way to make sure it never happens again.
2. If there are errors in person 2's work (same level as you), let someone higher up catch it.
3. If someone continues to do passive aggressive stuff to you, continue to play the higher hand of being unphased.

Here's the thing, if the work is seriously fucked up like misspelling CEO's name or sending docs to wrong clients yeah you're not good at your job. Now if its stupid nit picky stuff, the person who calls all that out is looking more and more insecure.

In terms of levels, basically you never talk back to someone above you unless you're getting ready to jump their spot and get promoted. Ex. You + level 1 guy + level 2 guy. NEVER EVER be critical of level 2. You will look like an idiot and burn your own spot.

Another good rule, if you're not being criticized they don't give a shit about you. If you're getting comments from a very high up person then they actually care about your long-term performance. To be honest 99% of people don't realize that critcism is not the way to motivate people, so just accept that they don't understand that concept and realize they are being critical for a positive reason, they want you to improve.

Work game is actually quite fun. Remember this when comparing yourself to other people are the same level. The first person to anger is the first person to lose his job, he cannot control his emotions.

Post: #11

(03-29-2013 10:41 AM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  Let it blow over and try not to make another mistake.

Agreed. I'm also trying to go back and reviewing everything to make sure that there are no errors.

Post: #12

(03-29-2013 11:38 AM)TheCool Wrote:  Get a few guys to break his legs

Easy

Believe me, I wish I could be gangsta like that at my job.

Post: #13

(03-29-2013 11:56 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  Pointing out someones mistake is bush league. It means they are scared of losing their job.

Also being defensive when it is clearly wrong just makes you look dumb, own it in a positive manner.

1. When someone calls you out and its legitimately wrong admit fault and find a way to make sure it never happens again.
2. If there are errors in person 2's work (same level as you), let someone higher up catch it.
3. If someone continues to do passive aggressive stuff to you, continue to play the higher hand of being unphased.

Here's the thing, if the work is seriously fucked up like misspelling CEO's name or sending docs to wrong clients yeah you're not good at your job. Now if its stupid nit picky stuff, the person who calls all that out is looking more and more insecure.

In terms of levels, basically you never talk back to someone above you unless you're getting ready to jump their spot and get promoted. Ex. You + level 1 guy + level 2 guy. NEVER EVER be critical of level 2. You will look like an idiot and burn your own spot.

Another good rule, if you're not being criticized they don't give a shit about you. If you're getting comments from a very high up person then they actually care about your long-term performance. To be honest 99% of people don't realize that critcism is not the way to motivate people, so just accept that they don't understand that concept and realize they are being critical for a positive reason, they want you to improve.

Work game is actually quite fun. Remember this when comparing yourself to other people are the same level. The first person to anger is the first person to lose his job, he cannot control his emotions.

Westcoast: I appreciate your comprehensive response. Since you're a finance guy, I'm in an FP&A role, and this guy would be considered on an equivalent level. A real North Jersey Dbag. My mistake was not following a newly enacted internal process. I didn't follow the internal process and jumped ahead and did my thing (quicker). No one got hurt, no $ lost, no clients upset.

Now here is the thing: I have evidence of several instances where we have lost money, upset the clients, etc with this guy and his group. I have been playing it cool for a while, but I'll admit this thing ticked me off. While he was right in calling me out for not following an internal policy, he could have done it after the meeting.

Also, I should mention that I have recently gotten a promotion and a few direct reports along the way, yet this guy still can't treat me with respect. He on the other hand, has gotten a new manager in the past 6 months.

I like your point about letting others find out about his mistake, but in this one particular instance, he has not gotten client sign off for the work that we have done for them and they are refusing to pay us. What's the best way to bring this to light?

I feel like I'm swimming with sharks, so I am trying to get my house in order first.

Post: #14

Never argue with a nobody. A farmer doesn't bother telling a pig his breath smells like shit.

Post: #15

(03-29-2013 12:25 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(03-29-2013 11:56 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  Pointing out someones mistake is bush league. It means they are scared of losing their job.

Also being defensive when it is clearly wrong just makes you look dumb, own it in a positive manner.

1. When someone calls you out and its legitimately wrong admit fault and find a way to make sure it never happens again.
2. If there are errors in person 2's work (same level as you), let someone higher up catch it.
3. If someone continues to do passive aggressive stuff to you, continue to play the higher hand of being unphased.

Here's the thing, if the work is seriously fucked up like misspelling CEO's name or sending docs to wrong clients yeah you're not good at your job. Now if its stupid nit picky stuff, the person who calls all that out is looking more and more insecure.

In terms of levels, basically you never talk back to someone above you unless you're getting ready to jump their spot and get promoted. Ex. You + level 1 guy + level 2 guy. NEVER EVER be critical of level 2. You will look like an idiot and burn your own spot.

Another good rule, if you're not being criticized they don't give a shit about you. If you're getting comments from a very high up person then they actually care about your long-term performance. To be honest 99% of people don't realize that critcism is not the way to motivate people, so just accept that they don't understand that concept and realize they are being critical for a positive reason, they want you to improve.

Work game is actually quite fun. Remember this when comparing yourself to other people are the same level. The first person to anger is the first person to lose his job, he cannot control his emotions.

Westcoast: I appreciate your comprehensive response. Since you're a finance guy, I'm in an FP&A role, and this guy would be considered on an equivalent level. A real North Jersey Dbag. My mistake was not following a newly enacted internal process. I didn't follow the internal process and jumped ahead and did my thing (quicker). No one got hurt, no $ lost, no clients upset.

Now here is the thing: I have evidence of several instances where we have lost money, upset the clients, etc with this guy and his group. I have been playing it cool for a while, but I'll admit this thing ticked me off. While he was right in calling me out for not following an internal policy, he could have done it after the meeting.

Also, I should mention that I have recently gotten a promotion and a few direct reports along the way, yet this guy still can't treat me with respect. He on the other hand, has gotten a new manager in the past 6 months.

I like your point about letting others find out about his mistake, but in this one particular instance, he has not gotten client sign off for the work that we have done for them and they are refusing to pay us. What's the best way to bring this to light?

I feel like I'm swimming with sharks, so I am trying to get my house in order first.

If I were in your position, I would consider coming up with some suggestion or at least re-packaging of some sort of protocols for dealing with clients who refuse to pay. Present to someone with power to act on it. Don't mention the douchebag's situation yourself, but eventually the topic will come up of how the new method can be applied or why it's needed, or what the current status of client accounts is and then boom, you can say "for example Jersey dbag's client...."

It will not come off vindictive as you will only bring it up when asked about it, (or even better, someone else will mention the guy's mistake) because you're not presenting the mistake affirmatively. Instead, your spotlighting it indirectly by bringing up a closely related topic which inevitably will lead to the guy's mistake being highlighted. Even better, if done right, you should come off as a helping hand, trying to bring solutions.

The key is to absolutely resist the temptation to bring up Dbag's mistake in any context other than a direct question from a superior, the direct answer to which should include Dbag's mistake.

Post: #16

Boston BMW, I will come back with another response soon.

One word of advice though.

Your worst enemy could be made into your best asset.

I had a psycho VP do this shyly to me before. We got into one meeting where there was a huge error in the book (done by VP). Immediately when caught I threw myself under the bus to snag all the blame. "My fault guys" raise hand.

6 months later = best review from him. Why? Because now everyone in the office likes you. In your spot first thing to find out is if the guy is just being hard on you. If he is then it's okay. If he was actually trying to get you fired, yeah time to start being a dick and calling him out if he is one level above you. But usually you can win a dick over with an olive branch.

Anger is a tool for the weak.

Post: #17

(03-29-2013 12:11 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(03-29-2013 11:38 AM)TheCool Wrote:  Get a few guys to break his legs

Easy

Believe me, I wish I could be gangsta like that at my job.

Violence is underrated..lets see how the dynamic changes when he walks in the office with a black eye or better yet when arrives to the office in a wheel chair.

Your in Boston right?

I Think you'd be suprised how easy you could arrange an accident to happen.

The next morning at work you'll say "Hey Bob, damn what happened...you ok?"

Post: #18

I'm in a similar situation, but he doesn't call me out in meetings, he questions something that an outside agency has to fix, I go tho them, and when it's not resolved in 15 minutes he goes to the CEO and starts going on that I've had weeks to get it done (really?). This individual has been this way since the day I started. I've got my next gig lined up and am moving to a much better city and climate in August. Just have to ignore him till then.

Post: #19

Don't get reamed.

You should be the one doing the reaming.

Make your own business.

Post: #20

(03-29-2013 01:19 PM)soup Wrote:  Don't get reamed.

You should be the one doing the reaming.

Make your own business.

I reamed the guy out that works for me today again. The other day I looked at him and opened his tool box and said " If someone looked in here at your job interview guess what? " What? It's obvious you are an idiot! Which is far from the truth because he's well equipped. I was fucking around but it got to him.

Anyway, Boston when people come in my office and talk shit I blow smoke up their ass as in tell them whatever they want to hear that will make them leave my office while I'm obviously busy on the RVF. Then deal with it later.

Post: #21

I've got some solid input here I think...

As a chef, I'm responsible for the actions of some of the stupidest, most useless members of society. My work force consists of immigrants, legal and illegal, high school dropouts, ex-prison inmates, you get the picture. Getting these people to produce consistent results is a task more difficult than pulling teeth.

At any given moment, if I turn my back for even a second, they'll do the stupidest most idiotic thing imaginable. Something as simple as toasting bread. They burn half of it and send it out the pass thinking that somehow it's okay. This, at a high end boutique hotel in L.A. We get celebs here all the fucking time; imagine them getting a plate of burnt toast in front of them.

The end result of this is I gotta hear about everything at the manager's meetings. I've ironed out most of the kinks in this place but when I first started here I was like a fucking punching bag. I'd read the 48 Laws of Power and got to put some of those principles in action.

Basically, kill them with kindness. It's presumed that your job is safe and that you're reasonably good at what you do. If that's the case, then there's never any reason for defensiveness. If people want to trash on you or your performance, you give them impression of taking them very seriously. Do it with a good-natured spirit. Pretend that "you" are just a heap of trash in the corner, and you're on your accusers side, even joining in and agreeing with his assessments. This requires some practice, but it is the best way to defuse the situation and improve your stature in everyone's eyes. If higher managers are present, this move goes a long way.

This isn't to say be a pushover. If someone comes at me with an assertion that is false, I correct them firmly and keep it all about the facts.

Example (this conversation actually happened a few months ago):
Managers: "Thedude3737, it seems like you don't care about this job."
Me: "Nothing can be further from the truth. I bring my experience and passion for cooking to this position on a daily basis. It's been a fulfilling process to rise to the daily challenges presented here. While I may seem frustrated at times, it's only because I care."

Note how I didn't even address their concern at first, and ended my response with "...I care."

Another real world example:
Managers: "The food isn't coming up correctly. We had a VIP table and we were out of lamb for them. The staff meal is cold. Your employees are rude."
Me: "I agree with everything that's being said. As manager of the culinary department, it is absolutely my duty to ensure the quality of speed, service, and food to reach the highest standards, and we are currently not meeting these standards. I've begun an intensive training process that will correct these deficiencies, weed out the riff-raff, and build a team that can execute job duties to the standards that I set forth. "

100% of what I tell them is bullshit. I ride my cooks, sure, but to meet MY standards. Fuck the hotel standards.

Now, I've walked the walk. I actually accomplished what I say I'm going to. But what's important is how you handle yourself when shit's being thrown your way. Nothing is corrected overnight, but you can't tell that to managers. You can't say, "Well I just haven't had enough time!" That's a bitch answer. A politician answers with, "We are on a clear path to acheive our objectives. We know what must be done, the standards are clearly outlined, and it's simply a matter of following a critical path to acheive those standards." Keep spewing shit like this and you can take as much time as you need. Think about presidents and generals.

It's all a game.

Post: #22

Jeez yeah listen to thedude3737 as well, no need for me to go further into this work game stuff.

Basically you know the drill, if someone is making you upset = the wrong answer is to respond with anger.

People here saying to pick fights and all that are just idiots, ignore them. That is never the correct answer in a work environment.

Anger in a grown man is the equivalent of a crying baby. Don't let them control your emotions, control theirs.

Post: #23

Read 48 Laws of Power.

Post: #24

Great point. Once you pass their shit tests and stay un-phased when they blow their shit, they start to think of you as calm, collected, and a valuable asset.

(03-29-2013 12:45 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Boston BMW, I will come back with another response soon.

One word of advice though.

Your worst enemy could be made into your best asset.

I had a psycho VP do this shyly to me before. We got into one meeting where there was a huge error in the book (done by VP). Immediately when caught I threw myself under the bus to snag all the blame. "My fault guys" raise hand.

6 months later = best review from him. Why? Because now everyone in the office likes you. In your spot first thing to find out is if the guy is just being hard on you. If he is then it's okay. If he was actually trying to get you fired, yeah time to start being a dick and calling him out if he is one level above you. But usually you can win a dick over with an olive branch.

Anger is a tool for the weak.

Post: #25

Westcoast: I appreciate your comprehensive response. Since you're a finance guy, I'm in an FP&A role, and this guy would be considered on an equivalent level. A real North Jersey Dbag. My mistake was not following a newly enacted internal process. I didn't follow the internal process and jumped ahead and did my thing (quicker). No one got hurt, no $ lost, no clients upset.

Now here is the thing: I have evidence of several instances where we have lost money, upset the clients, etc with this guy and his group. I have been playing it cool for a while, but I'll admit this thing ticked me off. While he was right in calling me out for not following an internal policy, he could have done it after the meeting.

Also, I should mention that I have recently gotten a promotion and a few direct reports along the way, yet this guy still can't treat me with respect. He on the other hand, has gotten a new manager in the past 6 months.

I like your point about letting others find out about his mistake, but in this one particular instance, he has not gotten client sign off for the work that we have done for them and they are refusing to pay us. What's the best way to bring this to light?

I feel like I'm swimming with sharks, so I am trying to get my house in order first.
[/quote]

Report back in a week. Try to have face time with your boss. See if he seems fazed by it. If nothing else, just talk about the Knicks or something. Probably what will happen is nothing.

But I think you might a problem and threat on your hands. Certainly you got a challenge in the "dominance hierarchy". What did this guy have to gain by dissing you in a meeting if there was no cost to him by your actions?

But like West Coast says, anger displayed at work will fuck you up worse than anything else. It certainly was the worse thing I ever did and it can cost you, if not immediately then eventually.

So pay very good attention this next week. Maybe even write down impressions and then come back in week and let us know. If he is acting like he alpha'd you and pushed you down a number in the dominance hierarchy, then tell us.

Let me make clear what I think you are saying. A peer, at the same level as you, made a negative statement about you in a meeting because you followed a process other than the prescribed/proscribed process for doing something. and your boss was present when he said what he said? And the thing he called you out on had nothing to do with him directly? And he was more or less "ratting" on you?