Post: #26

(02-14-2013 04:21 PM)WhiteFang Wrote:  Teedub & Krauser — No doubt. My point is that the language used when addressing an insular community like this is not necessarily indicative of how a person speaks IRL.

el mechanico — A true statement to be sure. But so what? As Asaxon pointed out above one of the fundamental principles of this community is that "human interactions are indeed exchanges of goods/ emotions". Legit whores are at least up front about it; most girls are oblivious to their own nature.

I'm not trying to do you down. I think its totally normal for guys to prioritise getting laid over everything else and go hog-wild, letting everything else fall by the wayside. As you get more success and wilder adventures it's very positively reinforcing and you get even more into it. That's how you get good.

Much of this requires breaking with bad habits or routines from your less-successful past. That's why I agree with lots of the earlier replies you got. You need creative destruction.

I'm just saying its easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater and lose some things that seemed at the time to be holding you back but that you later regret ditching. How much of it applies to you, I don't know. But certainly with myself, I had to rediscover certain things that I'd undervalued during my most hog-wild phase.

Post: #27

You are bringing unstable hookers back to the house you share with your mates.
Now more power to you, but I can also see where they are coming from, especially if they are walking the straight and narrow themselves.
On top of that you lecture Krauser on jargon ...yes you might be crushing life, but just maybe your head is up your arse a little bit too?

Post: #28

(02-14-2013 04:51 PM)Starbuck Wrote:  On top of that you lecture Krauser on jargon ...yes you might be crushing life, but just maybe your head is up your arse a little bit too?

Maybe a little bit. :-)

Post: #29

(02-14-2013 11:04 AM)Krauser Wrote:  You're so focused on being a cooler / dominant / assertive player that you are likely losing some of the things that make you the good human being that they want to be friends with.

(02-14-2013 03:21 PM)WhiteFang Wrote:  Sure, my friends are not wrong — from their perspective. And I think you are on-the-nose re: what their perspective is. But frankly I don't see things the same way and I told them as much and they're not listening to me. So fuck them.

Hah! I love it!

Post: #30

Guerilla, I see your point. Social politics is definitely something I need to learn.

Post: #31

You can also take a lesson from 48 Laws of Power: Conceal your intentions, Always say less than necessary, Play a sucker to catch a sucker: play dumber than your mark, and Use the surrender tactic: transform weakness into power. Let them believe they have "converted" you back, but bang on the side without them knowing, and slowly start bringing girls back to your apartment. Ocassionally fake a heartbreak so they see you are "moral" again. In the meantime, slowly convert them to the "dark side".

Post: #32

(02-14-2013 03:40 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:I happen to think getting a girl that men pay to fuck to fuck you on the reg for free is a signal that you are crushing life.

No, it means you're dating a hooker.

This, a thousand times this. There are those who will see fucking a hooker as a negative thing in and of itself. I would prefer to see how she behaves, what kind of clientele she has, what she is like OUTSIDE of just getting paid for sex in order to comment and since I don't have these references, I won't.

However, if you bring someone into someone else's living space and that someone is direspectful of the other people living with you, then that puts YOU in the wrong. Address this. If she hasn't done anything to them, then tell them that they're being disrespectful of you as a housemate and explain to them that even if one of them was dating someone who you didn't like or had issues with, as long as that person was respectful to you there's no reason you could really try to ban them from being at the house. Just like her being an escort isn't reason enough for them to ban her from the house.

Now, let's address the hooker thing again. I think most everyone in the PUA community would rather date a girl who is a 9 physically and is NOT a hooker than one who is a hooker. You seem to think much the opposite, that getting free sex from a 9 hooker is somehow that much awesomer than getting free sex from a 9 non-hooker. I'm not sure why you think this. Do I care if you have sex with a hooker? No, but to characterize it as super awesome because you can get free sex from someone who exchanges money for it is just over the top. Neat at best, but not some kind of "woah super alpha zen-ninja shit" like you seem to believe it is.

Believe in yourself and be unapologetic about who you are, but don't think that banging a hooker is some kind of ultimate badge of honor in the PUA or really any other community, because it's not. Hell, pimps don't even think banging a hooker is that amazing, it's turning them/gaming them that they enjoy the most.

Post: #33

Jealousy is a huge problem. When I was a sexless beta for the first three years of college, I would definitely get jealous of my best friend and suitemate who was up on game.

Now that I am up on game and my roommate is an out of shape shlub trying to recover from a serious case of one-itis, the shoe is on the other foot. I feel like I have to move out. I can feel the jealousy coming from some of my other friends as well. Even if I try and give them the tiniest shred of game advice, they reject it out of hand. I have told my friend that the short narcissistic bitch he is pining over for months is fucking six other guys (heard it from her good friends). He still pines over her. And I have told him that the tall hot blonde chick that is leaving in 8 weeks wants to fuck him badly (heard it from the horse's mouth, plus her friend tells me she is a freak), and he can't bring himself to take her home after a night of making out with her at the bar.

It is obvious now why many religions treats envy as a serious sin. My experiences have led me to try to reject becoming envious of others success. I dislike many successful people, but do not envy them. Even someone I dislike, I try and see what made them successful and see where I can emulate them.

Post: #34

(02-15-2013 08:05 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  Jealousy is a huge problem. When I was a sexless beta for the first three years of college, I would definitely get jealous of my best friend and suitemate who was up on game.

Now that I am up on game and my roommate is an out of shape shlub trying to recover from a serious case of one-itis, the shoe is on the other foot. I feel like I have to move out. I can feel the jealousy coming from some of my other friends as well. Even if I try and give them the tiniest shred of game advice, they reject it out of hand. I have told my friend that the short narcissistic bitch he is pining over for months is fucking six other guys (heard it from her good friends). He still pines over her. And I have told him that the tall hot blonde chick that is leaving in 8 weeks wants to fuck him badly (heard it from the horse's mouth, plus her friend tells me she is a freak), and he can't bring himself to take her home after a night of making out with her at the bar.

It is obvious now why many religions treats envy as a serious sin. My experiences have led me to try to reject becoming envious of others success. I dislike many successful people, but do not envy them. Even someone I dislike, I try and see what made them successful and see where I can emulate them.

This verse will mean a lot to any friendly neighborhood International Playboy:

All that jealousy and envy comin from my enemies
While I'm sippin on Re-mi
in front of black Lexus, Chevy's on the roam
Ninety-six big body, sittin on chrome
As we head up out the zone, stone-facin is on
You can admire, but don't look too long
I'm livin a dream with triple beams and my pockets bulgin
It's hard to imagine -- picture me rollin!

Post: #35

Man, "hate" like this is so common. From travel, dress, food, culture, language, sex, priorities.

Krauser has a good point that you need to stay grounded and not get caught in the wild-ness. But that being said, being feral and wild in the moment is great fun!

Heres how I see it- 1) Can you die from this?

I abstain from very dangerous activities like skiing in between trees, jumping off buildings, speeding over 100 miles/hour on the freeway, or other similarly daredevil stunts.

2) Will this hurt my proffesional career?

Drug Dealing, Drunk Driving, Sleeping with patients, Posting unprofessional things online with my real name. Fighting can break my hands= can't work.

If these two criteria are passed, then I let myself do pretty much whatever.

Post: #36

Well-said, AneroidOcean.

I agree with you 100% that the behavior of any guest in a shared home is the responsibility of the person who invited them over — to that end, I have taken responsibility for this, apologized repeatedly, and assured my housemates that such an incident will never happen again. In fact, I said if it did then I would support a ban because that would mean I was not in control of the situation.

The fact that my housemates don't take my word on that can only mean they doubt my ability to control the situation — which is kind of bizarre given that they're also complaining that I'm being too aggressive and controlling over situations. To them, me telling them I will keep this girl under control moving forward is actually a reason to be alarmed ... which makes it difficult for me to "brute force" convince them not to worry. (This is where Mental & Guerilla's suggestion to be a little more savvy about it comes into play.)

Regarding my puffery over dating an escort — I will admit I was exaggerating the coolness factor as a result of feeling on the defensive. I don't think an escort is inherently a prize of the highest order — but I would put escorts in the same general category as strippers and porn stars, which is to say they are highly-sexualized objects of desire ... and if you're a guy who likes highly-sexualized objects of desire there's a lot of appeal there (what I don't understand are guys who don't want highly-sexualized objects of desire on their arm or in their bed ... but to each his own, I guess).

I will also admit a great deal of my self-satisfaction here is derived from the gaming aspects of it. To bring in a metaphor from another type of gaming, it feels like a boss battle. You really have to stay sharp and strong to remain in control. The stimulation from that alone is very rewarding ... so much so that it has inspired me to think about pimping — especially because my girl has intimated she would be down for me to be her pimp and has another girl ready to go as well if I want to step up to the plate. There have been a few threads on here recently about pimping and it seems like pimp game is regular game on steroids. To continue the metaphor, it seems like it'd be leveling up. I've been resisting because I'm not 100% sure of my girl's motivations yet and I don't want to be manipulated into anything, much less something like that ... but at the same time, I don't want to be a pussy and back down from something that could provide lots and lots of stimulation just because it's scary and dangerous.

Generally speaking, my attitude toward fear is that you should run toward it, not away from it. It's this attitude that's scaring my friends most of all. As people who care about me, I can understand why it is troubling. They see it as reckless. But if the alternative is a normal, boring life, give me danger any day.

That may sound extreme, even in a community like this — but I have been up and down the block a few times and I've come to peace with the fact that this is simply the way I'm wired.

Of course, I'm not the only one ... this is pretty on-the-nose for people like me: The Self-Preservation Four - Dauntless, NOT Ordinary

DVY, to your point — some of this stuff toes the line on being too dangerous. But that's the sweet spot, isn't it?

Post: #37

(02-14-2013 03:40 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:I happen to think getting a girl that men pay to fuck to fuck you on the reg for free is a signal that you are crushing life.

No, it means you're dating a hooker.

Or it means you're a straight up Pimp!

Post: #38

I would also recomend banning people they like from the house for arbitrary reasons. If it's OK for them, it's OK for you.

Post: #39

Read The Prince, by Nicolo Machiavelli and add it to your arsenal. It’s part of a well-rounded, aggressively manipulative approach to "Social Politics”. http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince.pdf

(02-14-2013 05:39 PM)WhiteFang Wrote:  Guerilla, I see your point. Social politics is definitely something I need to learn.

Post: #40

Took a break from the board for a minute but I'm back with updates.

On the roommates front, things are considerably better. Since I last posted here I've naturally become more withdrawn and private at home — which just shows my friends were working against their own stated interest with their "concern". I've also been taking the advice of the board and using a bit of a divide-and-conquer strategy. Homeboy Who Could Use My Help was particularly understanding when I told him they were like caterpillars trying to force a butterfly back into its cocoon … he's also been making great strides in his own game, even getting the first notch I've seen from him in ages AND starting to come around to the fact that girls are not princesses.

Still, I have to say, there was damage done. I had to backtrack a bit in my alpha-ness at home in order to fly under the radar and I found it meant it was harder for me to get into state when I wanted to be. And even then, I could only get up to like 80%. I find it way better to remain in an aggressive alpha state all the time … the energy required to stay there is a lot less than the energy required to turn it on and off.

Accordingly, my rate of new girls into my funnel slowed a bit — although not to a grinding halt, I'm happy to say. Plus I had a pretty solid lineup in place already so I have not exactly been hurting for female companionship, although not a whole lot from the kind of top-shelf girls that light me up.

As for my escort girl, she just got on a plane to head home to live with her family. She had wanted me to help her get there, even trying to say we should get married but I told her she was on her own — I'll admit there was a kind of crazy, reckless appeal to the idea (and I mentioned my taste for danger) but I'll be damned if I'm gonna rescue some whore who would no doubt stab me in the back the second it's advantageous to her. Combine the fact that I made it clear she wasn't gonna get what she wanted out of me with the fact that I couldn't have her in my house and things got a lot cooler. But the night she left town I did tell my roommates I was breaking their stupid rule and had her come over to say goodbye to me. They didn't say shit.

The funny thing about their objection of course is that two girls that I met recently are what we could term "soft whores" — one of them gives a guy she knows BJs for $100/pop as a stress reliever and another told me she had a sugar daddy. And that's just what they revealed to me in casual conversation! I even had a real prim and proper girl I'm friends with admit that dating her is basically pay-to-play since her clothes and makeup ain't free. Frankly the vast majority of girls are stupid whores one way or another. I forget about that recently with one of my girls and I paid the price for it … but that's a topic for another thread.

My overall my lesson — when playing the game, keep your cards close to your vest unless you're in the company of other enlightened individuals. Most people would rather kill the messenger than hear the truth.

Post: #41

It sounds to me like none of your friends are getting any kind of ass on the regular and it's bothering them enough to interfere in your shit. The only solution here is to lay low a bit so it's tolerable to live at home and make plans to move out as quickly as possible.

Post: #42

(03-05-2013 05:10 PM)WhiteFang Wrote:  Took a break from the board for a minute but I'm back with updates.

Cool. Take care that this viewpoint is coming from reality versus some bitterness on your part for finally realizing what women are like:

"Frankly the vast majority of girls are stupid whores one way or another"

I don't get down on women for being the way they are. Now that I understand them better, everything is so much easier for me. It's frustrating at times, sure, but mostly because of where I came from and how hard I've had to 180 my understanding of them. Feels unnatural, but their behavior is completely natural. It doesn't make most of them stupid whores, it just makes them very, very different from what society says they are (special princesses).

Post: #43

(03-05-2013 05:58 PM)Hades Wrote:  It sounds to me like none of your friends are getting any kind of ass on the regular and it's bothering them enough to interfere in your shit. The only solution here is to lay low a bit so it's tolerable to live at home and make plans to move out as quickly as possible.

My friends are usually pretty cool and down with random hookups. Mr. Natural White Knight pulls all the time — although I have been out-performing him lately. It seems the core of their objection is to the methodical approach (as I said, these are guys who believe "be yourself" is good advice) and to ideas or attitudes which could be seen as misogynistic. I'd rather not move because I actually really like living here as it is a great environment for parties and bringing girls home and I think I will be able to avoid it by being more private about my thinking on these topics and by helping Homeboy learn how to pull.

(03-05-2013 08:02 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  I don't get down on women for being the way they are. Now that I understand them better, everything is so much easier for me. It's frustrating at times, sure, but mostly because of where I came from and how hard I've had to 180 my understanding of them. Feels unnatural, but their behavior is completely natural.

Thanks man — I appreciate what you are saying & I don't disagree. I have a tendency to overstate the case in my more bitter moments but the truth is that the real bitterness is toward my own nature, not the nature of girls.

See, I have a rotten element inside me that's so attached to the notion that girls deeply want someone to be "honest", "sincere", "true" etc that when a girl comes along who strikes me as "special" I instinctively & habitually drop my well-honed cool-guy persona to express the above qualities in order to display my own "specialness" — without fail, this pushes the girl away, regardless of how well I've executed up to that point or how far I've gotten with her before the switch happens. It always seems like a good idea at the time and then instantly once it becomes apparent I've pushed things past the point-of-no-return, it seems obvious how wrong I was and I start to beat myself up over it.

Interestingly, I don't do this with girls whom I don't particularly like. I basically outright use them for sex & companionship and still have them wrapped around my finger. But the more desirable the girl is to me, the more likely I am to fuck it up and that pisses me off because I actually have no problem getting interest, dates, or even notches from these girls but I can't LTR one to save my life.

Dating the escort was interesting because although she was physically desirable the inherent danger of her selfish, manipulative nature was so inherently obvious that it kept me on my toes ... and I saw a positive boost in other areas of my life from the aggression and dominance that I had to bring out to remain in control.

Although I would certainly take a rotating lineup of girls who don't inspire me over being lonely and sexless, if I'm being completely honest, I would like to LTR a high-value girl for a variety of reasons.

This is where the "all girls are whores" mentality comes into play — if my problem getting desirable girls stems from the fact that I slip into thinking those girls are "special" then constantly reminding myself that there's no inherent difference between a girl that's low-value and one that's high-value makes sense, doesn't it? After all, sometimes you have to force-feed yourself an idea until it sticks.

Post: #44

Sometimes you just outgrow your friends... I have a steady "inner circle" of 4-5 friends, the rest come and go...and I feel it`s healthy for my own growth and curiosity in life... I have no feminist friends, however a few softies there are, but they are harmless and I am not living to change other people. I focusing on shaping my own happiness. Something I`d say a true friend would appreachiate.

Post: #45

(03-05-2013 08:02 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  Cool. Take care that this viewpoint is coming from reality versus some bitterness on your part for finally realizing what women are like:

"Frankly the vast majority of girls are stupid whores one way or another"

I don't get down on women for being the way they are. Now that I understand them better, everything is so much easier for me. It's frustrating at times, sure, but mostly because of where I came from and how hard I've had to 180 my understanding of them. Feels unnatural, but their behavior is completely natural. It doesn't make most of them stupid whores, it just makes them very, very different from what society says they are (special princesses).

And look how much time and evergy gets expended on them, so are they stupid, or are the people who chase them anyway?

Post: #46

(03-06-2013 02:33 AM)The Pirate Wrote:  Sometimes you just outgrow your friends...

Yeah, it happened to me once before. Last time I was making a real run at game, I noticed all my friends were getting married to plain/normal/boring girls. I knew that wasn't gonna be enough for me and I pulled the ripcord. Moved to a different city and rebuilt from the ground up.

I'm not gonna have to do it with these friends though. They're cool but they just don't understand.

This comic sums up their attitude:


... luckily, I don't need them to understand. I just need them to get off my back, which they have done.

(03-06-2013 05:30 PM)snoop Wrote:  And look how much time and evergy gets expended on them, so are they stupid, or are the people who chase them anyway?

Amen to that.