Post: #1

Hi guys,

So it looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of time at the doctors in the near future. I won't bore anybody with the details, but I know a lot of smart people read this and I was wondering if any of you had any advice for dealing with doctors and the medical system in general.

How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head?

If there's beneficial drugs for comfort that I can get (Painkillers, sleeping pills, etc.) is there a way to make it more likely that he'll prescribe them?

Is there any way to avoid having to wait like a month to see a specialist?

These or any other tips you've got could be of use not just to me, but to a lot of guys. Thanks.

Post: #2

What level of education do you have?

If you clearly know your shit and have essentially diagnosed yourself, doctors will listen to you; it saves them time.

Post: #3

Do you have insurance? If so, ask beforehand if they offer different prices for cash-payment. (it might be cheaper).

Prescription meds are tough unless you are willing to deal w/online pharmacies.

Medicine is a big business. The prices reflect that.

Post: #4

Don't let him leave the room until he has diagnosed you. Otherwise he is just going to go GOOGLE it.

Post: #5

As someone who has gone through a "prestigious" engineering school, I have little respect or faith in doctors. ElBorracho said it best, Figure out what problem you have for yourself, on the internet, and go in there and ask for the treatment. All a doctor is is a guy who has read a bunch of medical books, while you've read a bunch of different books. They aren't any "smarter" than anyone else. You will never have a doctor with the brains or available time to give you Dr. House type diagnoses.

Sorry I don't have any advice to your specific requests though. The system sucks and it's not nearly as innovative or streamlined as they lead us to believe on TV.

Post: #6

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head?

When you book your appointment, tell the receptionist that you have a difficult problem and that you are now seeking a third opinion. Mention that you think you need at least 30 minutes face-time with the doctor. If the doc/receptionist cannot accommodate you with this reasonable request, find someone who will.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  If there's beneficial drugs for comfort that I can get (Painkillers, sleeping pills, etc.) is there a way to make it more likely that he'll prescribe them?

Just ask. "Doc, what can you give me for sleep/erectile dysfunction/my aversion to fat women?"

Most doctors see themselves as service providers, you just have to define the service you want to provide.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  Is there any way to avoid having to wait like a month to see a specialist?

You can PM me for some unconventional ideas on this topic.

There's people on this thread talking about searching your symptoms on the net. Let me just say that for minor stuff that's okay, but no amount of googling will ever replace a wise and experienced doctor with mad clinical skillz. In fact, despite the massive mountains of info one has to absorb in medical school, the school I went to emphasised that it's impossible to know everything and put heavy emphasis on knowing what is normal and abnormal upon physical examination. Knowledge can always be looked up.
Therefore, here are 2 signs that you are under the care of a real doctor:
- He doesn't make a diagnosis until he's examined you
- If he doesn't know what's wrong with you, he'll admit it but will offer to look it up for you or refer you to the right specialist. It's a doctor's job to look up stuff he doesn't know. It's NOT a doctor's job to know everything, because that's just impossible.

Doctor bashing is popular on this forum and I guess it's because of the mercantile nature of American medicine (bill first, healthy patient later), but I think it's dangerous to think that when faced with a serious health issue, you can outgoogle a good doctor. A doctor is not trained to remember medical information, but rather to process it cognitively in a working paradigm for his patient. You can google the symptoms but you're not going to be able to tell fact from bullshit and relevance from irrelevance if you have not been trained in that paradigm and have not had some clinical experience.

Post: #7

Agree 100% with christpuncher.

hopefully everything will be fine for you , but my advice is before having any kind of surgery or invasive treatment or therapy consult not less than 3 different doctors, also the web is your best friend , I learned so many things via pubmed encyclopedia and other web site and I am still learning..

all the best

Post: #8

(01-21-2013 02:07 PM)christpuncher Wrote:  As someone who has gone through a "prestigious" engineering school, I have little respect or faith in doctors. ElBorracho said it best, Figure out what problem you have for yourself, on the internet, and go in there and ask for the treatment. All a doctor is is a guy who has read a bunch of medical books, while you've read a bunch of different books. They aren't any "smarter" than anyone else. You will never have a doctor with the brains or available time to give you Dr. House type diagnoses.

Sorry I don't have any advice to your specific requests though. The system sucks and it's not nearly as innovative or streamlined as they lead us to believe on TV.

Yep I agree 100%. Learn to get to know your body very well, be sensitive to minor changes. I always do my research if I have some type of malady and then suggest to my crap doctor the course of treatment I think will be best. Good luck with whatever is up, hope everything is ok.

Post: #9

(01-21-2013 02:43 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head?

When you book your appointment, tell the receptionist that you have a difficult problem and that you are now seeking a third opinion. Mention that you think you need at least 30 minutes face-time with the doctor. If the doc/receptionist cannot accommodate you with this reasonable request, find someone who will.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  If there's beneficial drugs for comfort that I can get (Painkillers, sleeping pills, etc.) is there a way to make it more likely that he'll prescribe them?

Just ask. "Doc, what can you give me for sleep/erectile dysfunction/my aversion to fat women?"

Most doctors see themselves as service providers, you just have to define the service you want to provide.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  Is there any way to avoid having to wait like a month to see a specialist?

You can PM me for some unconventional ideas on this topic.

There's people on this thread talking about searching your symptoms on the net. Let me just say that for minor stuff that's okay, but no amount of googling will ever replace a wise and experienced doctor with mad clinical skillz. In fact, despite the massive mountains of info one has to absorb in medical school, the school I went to emphasised that it's impossible to know everything and put heavy emphasis on knowing what is normal and abnormal upon physical examination. Knowledge can always be looked up.
Therefore, here are 2 signs that you are under the care of a real doctor:
- He doesn't make a diagnosis until he's examined you
- If he doesn't know what's wrong with you, he'll admit it but will offer to look it up for you or refer you to the right specialist. It's a doctor's job to look up stuff he doesn't know. It's NOT a doctor's job to know everything, because that's just impossible.

Doctor bashing is popular on this forum and I guess it's because of the mercantile nature of American medicine (bill first, healthy patient later), but I think it's dangerous to think that when faced with a serious health issue, you can outgoogle a good doctor. A doctor is not trained to remember medical information, but rather to process it cognitively in a working paradigm for his patient. You can google the symptoms but you're not going to be able to tell fact from bullshit and relevance from irrelevance if you have not been trained in that paradigm and have not had some clinical experience.

The reason people bash doctors is because they are useless in the western world unless you have been in a car accident or have broken bones. Acute care the west excels at, everything else we lag the rest of the world.

Can you name me one disease that doctors have cured us of ? Of course not because there isn't any. But I can name several that doctors have created.

Alzheimer's
Parkinson's
Erectile dysfunction
Many cases of type II diabetes
There insistence of vaccines has led to an outbreak of dysfunctional children. Who can't learn or focus properly. Some may argue that vaccines don't cause autism, but I think the evidence shows clearly there is a link.

Doctors know nothing about nutrition, vitamins and minerals. The very basics of the human body and these guys don't have a clue. We are supposed to listen to them when it comes to our own health ?

How many of them got busted last year for accepting bribes from Big Pharma ? 1000's. Why would I believe a doctor has my best interest at heart when they are being paid off by a major drug company to pedal their ineffective drugs and down right harmful

Ever heard of " dead doctors don't lie " ? A doctor by the name of Joel Wallach did a simple research study about at what age do doctors die as compared to the rest of the country. Guess what he found ? The first time he did it he discovered that GP's died at the average age of 58, meanwhile the average fat ass in america lived to be 76. Why would that be ? Well because doctors tend to listen to their own advice, such as low cholesterol diets, low sodium diets and probably getting vaccinated. Now of course doctors came out in defense of this study, but really how could you fake it or even tweak it ? All he did was go through the JAMA obituaries of all the doctors who had died over the course of several years. So if the average doctor in america is living almost 20 years less than the average american, why would we listen to them ?

Post: #10

(01-21-2013 04:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Can you name me one disease that doctors have cured us of ?

Off the top of my head:

The following diseases have been almost eradicated in the west:
- Tuberculosis
- Polio
- Measles, Mumps, Rubella (till the vaccine denialists started shouting)
- Cholera
- Malaria (although it's making a comeback in Greece due to the breakdown of the malaria control program)
- Plague

Activist Doctors have been in the forefront of eliminating the above diseases in the west. Vaccination was initially heavily resisted, for example.

The following diseases are no longer fatal in the west:
- appendicitis
- cephalopelvic disproportion during labour
- retained placenta after labour
- insulin dependent diabetes

These are just a few examples, I'm not going to make a detailed list.

The only reason you have the privilege of bashing doctors is because you are healthy because of those same doctors. It's because you are not getting sick that you don't realise how much western medicine has contributed to your standard of living. I've worked in communities that don't have regular access to western medicine, and the health problems are straight out of medieval Europe.

(01-21-2013 04:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Doctors know nothing about nutrition, vitamins and minerals. The very basics of the human body and these guys don't have a clue. We are supposed to listen to them when it comes to our own health ?

Doctors are trained to know diseases, not health. This is a common misunderstanding amongst lay people. You don't go to a doctor to get health advice, you go to a doctor to get disease advice, and some of that may include disease-avoidance advice. A lot of people are upset by this because they want their doctor to take over their responsibility for their own health, to give some sort of magic pill to make them healthy, but that's not what medicine is about. If you're not willing to take responsibility for your own health, don't go to a doctor thinking he will take that responsibility.

(01-21-2013 04:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Some may argue that vaccines don't cause autism, but I think the evidence shows clearly there is a link.

We can argue this ad nauseam. The people that started this argument that vaccines cause autism had something monetarily to gain. Dr Andrew Wakefield, for example, was paid by lawyers to 'discover' this link. A lot of people are saying it's all a giant conspiracy to discredit Wakefield but I've looked through his published papers and his research is crap to begin with, I'd be embarrassed to publish such crap. But if that sort of research is good enough for you, then good on you. We are free to decide which position we want to take on the issue. My position is that there is some pretty strong evidence that non-vaccinated children has as much autism as vaccinated ones, based on a huge study done in Denmark and various other studies. Don't take my word for it, though. Read the evidence and make a decision for yourself what you believe, and be willing to change what you believe when new evidence arises.

(01-21-2013 04:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  The reason people bash doctors is because they are useless in the western world

Sturgeon's law - 90% of everything is crap. One can easily say that about any profession: politicians, lawyers, cops, plumbers, pickup artists... It's your own fault you can't be bothered to find the 10% that are worth your while. Don't blame the system for your inability to game the system.

Post: #11

@Thomas the Rhymer- Solid. You forgot about smallpox as well. =)

@BiginJapan- I have liked a lot of your posts. But ill have to disagree. Doctors live on average shorter because their lives are worse. High stress, long hours, little exercise, horrible nutrition, constant exposure in a hospital setting. Chemists/Researchers have shorter life spans too. This is due to constant exposure to lab chemicals.

The autism link has been generally refuted. Its a SWPL problem, like amalgam in silver fillings (miniscule amounts), hysteria over radiation, fluoride in the water (most effective and cost-efficient ways to prevent dental cavities), natural homeopathic remedies. Man, the amount of bullshit I heard is ridiculous.

One lady told me there have been cases when old people because of good food and nutrition get extra teeth. I was like WHAT??? Your teeth buds are fully formed at the latest by age 16. Whether or not, they come into your jaw and above the gumline is irrelevant. Sigh, sigh, and moan. Thats what I do 25% of the day.

Moral of the story- people don't have enough real problems and are trying to find some. People then recite this half-truth or blatant lie as GOSPEL. Then some idiot celebrity jumps on the cause, and boom media hysteria.

Nowadays, good knowledge is hard to find. Cochrane Research Studies are a great source of verified knowledge.

Post: #12

(01-22-2013 02:42 AM)DVY Wrote:  @Thomas the Rhymer- Solid. You forgot about smallpox as well. =)

@BiginJapan- I have liked a lot of your posts. But ill have to disagree. Doctors live on average shorter because their lives are worse. High stress, long hours, little exercise, horrible nutrition, constant exposure in a hospital setting. Chemists/Researchers have shorter life spans too. This is due to constant exposure to lab chemicals.

The autism link has been generally refuted. Its a SWPL problem, like amalgam in silver fillings (miniscule amounts), hysteria over radiation, fluoride in the water (most effective and cost-efficient ways to prevent dental cavities), natural homeopathic remedies. Man, the amount of bullshit I heard is ridiculous.

One lady told me there have been cases when old people because of good food and nutrition get extra teeth. I was like WHAT??? Your teeth buds are fully formed at the latest by age 16. Whether or not, they come into your jaw and above the gumline is irrelevant. Sigh, sigh, and moan. Thats what I do 25% of the day.

Moral of the story- people don't have enough real problems and are trying to find some. People then recite this half-truth or blatant lie as GOSPEL. Then some idiot celebrity jumps on the cause, and boom media hysteria.

Nowadays, good knowledge is hard to find. Cochrane Research Studies are a great source of verified knowledge.

Damn someone got to smallpox before me, but you forgot rinderpest (although it may not count since it doesn't effect humans).

Some doctors are shitbags, most are highly educated and talented individuals. A shit doctor will be the one who sees a knee problem and says, "Lets do a blood test!" A good doctor, or even a decent doctor will look at symptoms and either say, "This has all the symptoms of the flu!" Or, they'll say, "This might be a, b, or c. Let's do some tests and get a confirmed diagnosis."

If you have a fever, runny nose, nausea, and a lack of appetite, you'd be a good candidate for the flu, and your online diagnosis will be confirmed by your doctor. If you've had the symptoms of the flu for a couple days when suddenly you find yourself with lesions developing in your mouth which rupture in time for the scariest looking rash you've ever seen developing on your forehead, then you need to skip the online diagnosis and call your doctor right away.

There's a reason doctors go to school for years, and that those schools are hard to get into, and that their jobs are stressful, and that they're in high demand. They can't be replaced by google.

Post: #13

First off none of those diseases are gone. And yes people who are vaccinated for them still contract them

Also it was the rise in our living standards that almost wipe them out. Not vaccines. Even the CDC's own graphs and statistics prove this. There was a rapid decline in both contraction and death before any vaccines were created.

As for Doctor Andrew Wakefield, have you ever looked into what Brian Deer had claimed against him ? The guy isn't even a doctor, yet people use his arguments against wakefield non stop. Also Wakefields study was nothing new. Harvard had discovered the link years before he did. Big Pharma can't discredit Harvard or other prestigious universities so they went after one doctor. Wakefield will be completely exonerated in the near future, but what argument do you have for other big universities discovering the link between the MMR vaccine and autism ? Where wakefield went wrong is his hypothesis that measles was infecting the brain and causing the damage. But what has been discovered is that the MMR vaccine is destroying the gut, which is 80% of your immune system. Which is then leading to brain inflammation.

Post: #14

Gentlemen also the study on dead doctors don't lie was among GP's, not trauma surgeons and ER doctors. Your claims of stress really have no bearing. They work regular 9-5 shifts, so long hours don't come into play. Yes they are exposed more to sick people, but they certainly aren't exposed to chemicals anymore than the common man. That is why the study is so damning to the medical profession.

Post: #15

@ Faust - I hope everything goes well for you health wise and financially with all the examinations you are getting.

If you can be mobile, I've undergone some medical examinations in foreign countries before and even dental surgery for exponentially cheaper than in the US..esp the dental surgery part as I run a small business here & dental insurance didn't cover my desired operation.

Post: #16

I am still looking for the original harvard study. But since then the findings have been replicated 28 times by different countries. SHort little article about it with all the links below:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...-case.aspx

IN this CDC article they admit that the last 154 cases of Polio was caused by taking the vaccines in the US. THis taken right from the CDC's website:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

Also many of you might not know but the US has convinced many parts of the world including here in North America to change the name of polio to other names. To hide the fact that we still have it on going today. These names include:
viral or aseptic meningitis
Cocksackie Virus
Guillaine Barre Syndrome

Fuck it is so hard to dig up a chart of polio pre 1950's. But I found one. I know I am picking on Polio but the same can be said for all the other diseases people think we wiped out because of vaccines.

http://www.wellwithin1.com/pol_all.htm

Post: #17

(01-22-2013 03:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  First off none of those diseases are gone. And yes people who are vaccinated for them still contract them

Also it was the rise in our living standards that almost wipe them out. Not vaccines. Even the CDC's own graphs and statistics prove this. There was a rapid decline in both contraction and death before any vaccines were created.

High living standards typically include access to advanced medical care.

There hasn't been a case of smallpox in the entire world since the 1970's. The disease still exists locked away in 2 labs, one in Russia and one in the US. Every other known sample has been destroyed, and no one is walking around with it anymore. It's gone. Hopefully for good. It took the world centuries to get rid of it.

Vaccines work, when was the last time you met someone with polio? It's still out there, but it's on its way out due to coordinated vaccination efforts.

Here I have the CDC saying that your argument is bullshit.

Next you're going to tell me trees cause pollution, the sun orbits the Earth (which god created in under a week), and that intelligent design isn't a bullshit way of saying divine creation.

Post: #18

(01-21-2013 04:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 02:43 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head?

When you book your appointment, tell the receptionist that you have a difficult problem and that you are now seeking a third opinion. Mention that you think you need at least 30 minutes face-time with the doctor. If the doc/receptionist cannot accommodate you with this reasonable request, find someone who will.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  If there's beneficial drugs for comfort that I can get (Painkillers, sleeping pills, etc.) is there a way to make it more likely that he'll prescribe them?

Just ask. "Doc, what can you give me for sleep/erectile dysfunction/my aversion to fat women?"

Most doctors see themselves as service providers, you just have to define the service you want to provide.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  Is there any way to avoid having to wait like a month to see a specialist?

You can PM me for some unconventional ideas on this topic.

There's people on this thread talking about searching your symptoms on the net. Let me just say that for minor stuff that's okay, but no amount of googling will ever replace a wise and experienced doctor with mad clinical skillz. In fact, despite the massive mountains of info one has to absorb in medical school, the school I went to emphasised that it's impossible to know everything and put heavy emphasis on knowing what is normal and abnormal upon physical examination. Knowledge can always be looked up.
Therefore, here are 2 signs that you are under the care of a real doctor:
- He doesn't make a diagnosis until he's examined you
- If he doesn't know what's wrong with you, he'll admit it but will offer to look it up for you or refer you to the right specialist. It's a doctor's job to look up stuff he doesn't know. It's NOT a doctor's job to know everything, because that's just impossible.

Doctor bashing is popular on this forum and I guess it's because of the mercantile nature of American medicine (bill first, healthy patient later), but I think it's dangerous to think that when faced with a serious health issue, you can outgoogle a good doctor. A doctor is not trained to remember medical information, but rather to process it cognitively in a working paradigm for his patient. You can google the symptoms but you're not going to be able to tell fact from bullshit and relevance from irrelevance if you have not been trained in that paradigm and have not had some clinical experience.

The reason people bash doctors is because they are useless in the western world unless you have been in a car accident or have broken bones. Acute care the west excels at, everything else we lag the rest of the world.

Can you name me one disease that doctors have cured us of ? Of course not because there isn't any. But I can name several that doctors have created.

Alzheimer's
Parkinson's
Erectile dysfunction
Many cases of type II diabetes
There insistence of vaccines has led to an outbreak of dysfunctional children. Who can't learn or focus properly. Some may argue that vaccines don't cause autism, but I think the evidence shows clearly there is a link.

Doctors know nothing about nutrition, vitamins and minerals. The very basics of the human body and these guys don't have a clue. We are supposed to listen to them when it comes to our own health ?

How many of them got busted last year for accepting bribes from Big Pharma ? 1000's. Why would I believe a doctor has my best interest at heart when they are being paid off by a major drug company to pedal their ineffective drugs and down right harmful

Ever heard of " dead doctors don't lie " ? A doctor by the name of Joel Wallach did a simple research study about at what age do doctors die as compared to the rest of the country. Guess what he found ? The first time he did it he discovered that GP's died at the average age of 58, meanwhile the average fat ass in america lived to be 76. Why would that be ? Well because doctors tend to listen to their own advice, such as low cholesterol diets, low sodium diets and probably getting vaccinated. Now of course doctors came out in defense of this study, but really how could you fake it or even tweak it ? All he did was go through the JAMA obituaries of all the doctors who had died over the course of several years. So if the average doctor in america is living almost 20 years less than the average american, why would we listen to them ?

This post is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

How exactly did doctor's create erectile dysfunction, type 2 diabetes etc? All those diseases have existed forever and now you can take a pill- levitra for ED or take insulin for diabetes and you're fine. Did you know back in the day people used to die from syphillis. Literally they would die. Now you take an antibiotic for 2 weeks and its like it never happened.

Doctors know nothing about minerals, vitamins. Um what? Everything that we do know about vitamins and minerals comes from doctors and scientists. I'm sure you could listen to some bogus guy on the internet claiming that mineral oil cures you of AIDS or you can go with the real treatment and get protease inhibitors. Yea- do you think Magic Johnson would still be alive right now if it wasn't for the advancements in medicine or would he be dead like everyone else who got AIDS in the 60's and 70's???

Maybe the reason physicians don't have as long life expectancy is because their lifestyle sucks and working 80+ hours a week and the stress isn't healthy.

And the worst statement of all about vaccines and autism- The ONE study that showed a link had a sample size of 12 patients. 12!!! And the guy published his study. A real study has hundreds or thousands of patients. The guy who published it has since left the scientific community because his study has led to hundreds of gullible soccer moms looking for a scapegoat on why their kid ended up with autism. Vaccines are probably the best thing that has ever come out in medicine and has led to the eradication of polio, small pox, mumps, rubella, measles, varicella etc. Doctors never cure anything. Do you know anyone who has had small pox??? Why - because its CURED.

Autism study link
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/aut...index.html

Post: #19

I apologize for the rant but I know how hard physicians work and that they save lives on a daily basis. So to think googling a bunch of non verifiable info on the internet which can be posted by ANYONE replaces a board certified physician's opinion is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on Roosh V.

Post: #20

(01-22-2013 03:55 PM)Osiris Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 03:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  First off none of those diseases are gone. And yes people who are vaccinated for them still contract them

Also it was the rise in our living standards that almost wipe them out. Not vaccines. Even the CDC's own graphs and statistics prove this. There was a rapid decline in both contraction and death before any vaccines were created.

High living standards typically include access to advanced medical care.

There hasn't been a case of smallpox in the entire world since the 1970's. The disease still exists locked away in 2 labs, one in Russia and one in the US. Every other known sample has been destroyed, and no one is walking around with it anymore. It's gone. Hopefully for good. It took the world centuries to get rid of it.

Vaccines work, when was the last time you met someone with polio? It's still out there, but it's on its way out due to coordinated vaccination efforts.

Here I have the CDC saying that your argument is bullshit.

Next you're going to tell me trees cause pollution, the sun orbits the Earth (which god created in under a week), and that intelligent design isn't a bullshit way of saying divine creation.

Did you click on the links ? All the last known cases of polio were caused by the vaccine itself admitted by the CDC on their own website.

How was smallpox eradicated if half the kids out there weren't vaccinated ? In Canada they stopped vaccinating babies for smallpox 10 years before it was wiped out.

But i see as always someone throws in their 2 cents and then ends it with blatant child games. WHy don't you just call me a conspiracy nut and that aliens are the real reason for the eradication of small pox.

Post: #21

(01-22-2013 04:15 PM)philly22 Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 04:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 02:43 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head?

When you book your appointment, tell the receptionist that you have a difficult problem and that you are now seeking a third opinion. Mention that you think you need at least 30 minutes face-time with the doctor. If the doc/receptionist cannot accommodate you with this reasonable request, find someone who will.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  If there's beneficial drugs for comfort that I can get (Painkillers, sleeping pills, etc.) is there a way to make it more likely that he'll prescribe them?

Just ask. "Doc, what can you give me for sleep/erectile dysfunction/my aversion to fat women?"

Most doctors see themselves as service providers, you just have to define the service you want to provide.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  Is there any way to avoid having to wait like a month to see a specialist?

You can PM me for some unconventional ideas on this topic.

There's people on this thread talking about searching your symptoms on the net. Let me just say that for minor stuff that's okay, but no amount of googling will ever replace a wise and experienced doctor with mad clinical skillz. In fact, despite the massive mountains of info one has to absorb in medical school, the school I went to emphasised that it's impossible to know everything and put heavy emphasis on knowing what is normal and abnormal upon physical examination. Knowledge can always be looked up.
Therefore, here are 2 signs that you are under the care of a real doctor:
- He doesn't make a diagnosis until he's examined you
- If he doesn't know what's wrong with you, he'll admit it but will offer to look it up for you or refer you to the right specialist. It's a doctor's job to look up stuff he doesn't know. It's NOT a doctor's job to know everything, because that's just impossible.

Doctor bashing is popular on this forum and I guess it's because of the mercantile nature of American medicine (bill first, healthy patient later), but I think it's dangerous to think that when faced with a serious health issue, you can outgoogle a good doctor. A doctor is not trained to remember medical information, but rather to process it cognitively in a working paradigm for his patient. You can google the symptoms but you're not going to be able to tell fact from bullshit and relevance from irrelevance if you have not been trained in that paradigm and have not had some clinical experience.

The reason people bash doctors is because they are useless in the western world unless you have been in a car accident or have broken bones. Acute care the west excels at, everything else we lag the rest of the world.

Can you name me one disease that doctors have cured us of ? Of course not because there isn't any. But I can name several that doctors have created.

Alzheimer's
Parkinson's
Erectile dysfunction
Many cases of type II diabetes
There insistence of vaccines has led to an outbreak of dysfunctional children. Who can't learn or focus properly. Some may argue that vaccines don't cause autism, but I think the evidence shows clearly there is a link.

Doctors know nothing about nutrition, vitamins and minerals. The very basics of the human body and these guys don't have a clue. We are supposed to listen to them when it comes to our own health ?

How many of them got busted last year for accepting bribes from Big Pharma ? 1000's. Why would I believe a doctor has my best interest at heart when they are being paid off by a major drug company to pedal their ineffective drugs and down right harmful

Ever heard of " dead doctors don't lie " ? A doctor by the name of Joel Wallach did a simple research study about at what age do doctors die as compared to the rest of the country. Guess what he found ? The first time he did it he discovered that GP's died at the average age of 58, meanwhile the average fat ass in america lived to be 76. Why would that be ? Well because doctors tend to listen to their own advice, such as low cholesterol diets, low sodium diets and probably getting vaccinated. Now of course doctors came out in defense of this study, but really how could you fake it or even tweak it ? All he did was go through the JAMA obituaries of all the doctors who had died over the course of several years. So if the average doctor in america is living almost 20 years less than the average american, why would we listen to them ?

This post is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

How exactly did doctor's create erectile dysfunction, type 2 diabetes etc? All those diseases have existed forever and now you can take a pill- levitra for ED or take insulin for diabetes and you're fine. Did you know back in the day people used to die from syphillis. Literally they would die. Now you take an antibiotic for 2 weeks and its like it never happened.

Doctors know nothing about minerals, vitamins. Um what? Everything that we do know about vitamins and minerals comes from doctors and scientists. I'm sure you could listen to some bogus guy on the internet claiming that mineral oil cures you of AIDS or you can go with the real treatment and get protease inhibitors. Yea- do you think Magic Johnson would still be alive right now if it wasn't for the advancements in medicine or would he be dead like everyone else who got AIDS in the 60's and 70's???

Maybe the reason physicians don't have as long life expectancy is because their lifestyle sucks and working 80+ hours a week and the stress isn't healthy.

And the worst statement of all about vaccines and autism- The ONE study that showed a link had a sample size of 12 patients. 12!!! And the guy published his study. A real study has hundreds or thousands of patients. The guy who published it has since left the scientific community because his study has led to hundreds of gullible soccer moms looking for a scapegoat on why their kid ended up with autism. Vaccines are probably the best thing that has ever come out in medicine and has led to the eradication of polio, small pox, mumps, rubella, measles, varicella etc. Doctors never cure anything. Do you know anyone who has had small pox??? Why - because its CURED.

Autism study link
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/aut...index.html

ED, Alzheimers, Parkinsons are caused by the low cholesterol diets that are vaunted doctors recommend. Testosterone comes solely from the manufacturing of cholesterol. Human body produces 10% of our daily need. Where are you supposed to get the rest if you aren't eating cholesterol ?

Secondly besides testosterone, our brains and nervous system again are almost entirely made up of cholesterol. At the least the solid mass parts. So how is your brain or nervous system supposed to repair itself if it isn't getting cholesterol ? Because not only are we told to eat low cholesterol diets they now have half the aging population on lowering cholesterol drugs. Which is now causing Type II diabetes and kidney failure. Granted Diabetes can be caused by numerous other things but a big part of that is now cholesterol drugs.

Doesn't take a medical degree to put these facts together. But you guys can rant all you want about our great doctors.

Also again for the record the study of dead doctors don't lie was done by comparings GP's. DO you guys not realize that is general practitioner ? Meaning working 40 hours a week. Not 80 like you guys keep thinking. AGain that is why the study is damning to the medical community. The study has been replicated several times and they kept finding the same thing, doctors die sooner than fat asses.

Post: #22

And the autism link. You can deny it all you want. But the you are the most vaccinated country on the planet and you have the highest autistic rate on planet. Not to mention you rank 35th in the world for infant mortality rates. That is children dying under the age of 5.

How does that make sense ? Supposedly the super power of the planet and countries like cyprus, brunei, croatia, malta have better survival rates than the US of A.

How do you reconcile this ? highest autistic rate and a very high infant mortality rate ? Judging by your answers americans should be the healthiest people on the planet and certainly should not have so many children dying.

http://www.rescuepost.com/files/gr-autis...eport1.pdf

Post: #23

Also the US spends more on health care every year than all countries in the known world combined. Are you getting your money's worth ?

Post: #24

(01-22-2013 04:19 PM)philly22 Wrote:  I apologize for the rant but I know how hard physicians work and that they save lives on a daily basis. So to think googling a bunch of non verifiable info on the internet which can be posted by ANYONE replaces a board certified physician's opinion is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on Roosh V.

I understand your sentiment but no need to feed the any further. (I have BIJ on ignore so can't see the further replies above.)

Post: #25

You can learn to fly a plane on the internet, but that doesn't make you a pilot.

To the OP - you just have to be prepared with your questions beforehand and always find a second opinion if you are not satisfied. Be proactive about your gameplan as well - 'if X scan is negative - where will we go from there?' If the bloods come back as positive - what does this mean for... etc etc

A lot of the younger doctors I have worked alongside are fantastic and much more progressive than the old-school 'my way or the highway' breed.