Post: #1

So, The People have spoken, so I will bust a little Data on Approach-Number-Conversion Rates. I hope you guys find this useful and it sparks thought and discussion about how we all can continue making our Game better.

First a little background and context:

Location: Large American city, famous for high levels of competition and beautiful women of all stripes.

Frequency of going out: 3-5 nights per week. Let's call it 4 for simplicities sake.

Running Partner or Dolo: Solo.

Venue types: High-end restaurants, bars, lounges and nightclubs. Places with $15-20 cocktails primarily.

Logistics: Heavily in my favor. Dope crib. Dope Building. Dope location.

Competition: Pro-Athletes, Celebs, Billionaire European Tax Dodgers, and of course, all the other fools, idiots and weesh guys associated with high end nightlife.

Game Type: Night Game only. No Online Game. Minimal Day Game.

Game Style: As vicious as the realest you know, only difference is consistence. I'm considered a pro.

Wardrobe: Custom. I rolled Suited Down every night, with some nights with blazer, slacks and v-neck.

Bankroll: On overload. Just playing. Let's put it this way: I am not sweating the cost of a cab or cocktail.

Physical Shape: In Ketosis. Just playing. I still don't even really know what "Ketosis" is. I just like saying it.

Typical Night Game Plan (Step by Step):

1. Hotel bar cocktails
2. Dinner at bar
3. Drinks at lounge outdoor hotel bar
4. Drinks again
5. Club

Spitting at girls at every joint and Spitting Street Game intermixed between venues.

A couple of more notes:

I have been to this city many times, but never made it a Base of Operations.

So, I came to hit it real hard and show everyone that there is a "New Sheriff in Town", so to speak. I had to try to convert the entire city into believing I was the #1.

That being said, there were a lot of "experimental" nights with venues. I was checking places out and not always doing the right thing at the right time, so to speak. My moves and transitions weren't as "crisp" if I was say on The Wessyde.

Also, I was in a "pipe building" mode. So I was talking to every cute girl I saw where there was an opening.

If I am in a city a little longer, I am a little more "surgical" with my Game.

Alright, enough background. Here are the numbers:

Nights out: Let's call it 32. (4 nights per week, 8 weeks).

Approaches: 213. This number is an educated guess. I am counting an "approach" as any time I engaged a girl in conversation. For instance, walking by a girl on the street and spitting something at her, but she doesn't stop, is not an approach. Well, I guess it is, but I am not counting those. I am only counting girls "engaged in conversation" so to speak.

This number might actually be higher, I am not totally sure. It potentially could be as high as 243.

This is 6.6 girls approached per night. Or 7.5 depending on which numbers we use. Keep in mind, some of my nights out, were 2nd dates, which lowers my approach numbers. But even on dates, if I have a chance, I will approach other girls ie, going to the bathroom, get some quick digits from a fly girl etc.

Phone Numbers Crunched: 71. I am very certain on this Data Point. I do collect a bunch of numbers. I am old-school like that. I will get a number from a girl because it gives me "momentum" on the night. I didn't follow up with all of these, but a very high percentage I did, because these girls were fly.

So I basically got a phone number of 33% of the girls I approached.

Swoops: 11. Not too bad. I have had better 2 month periods in my life for sure, but this was pretty solid. I give myself a B. There were plenty of fly girls in the pipe that I fumbled with. But some really fly ones I took down. Two models, one represented her country in the Elite Model Look competition. But knowing the harsh standards we have on the forum, I am sure most on here would never want her. Ha. Just playing.

11 might seem high or low to some of you. Not sure. But the thing I found interesting is that I only convert on 5% of the girls I approach. (Maybe 4% depending on which numbers we use).

It is crazy to think I have been doing this since I was a kid, have everything going for me, and I still only convert at 5%.

In my defense though, many of these girls I "screened out" myself, still 5% seems low.

Also, another Data Point to look at is I converted on 15% of girls who I got their phone number. Also seems pretty low to me. But probably normal.

I still had so much fun doing this. I love Game. I love rolling out, Custom Suited Down with a cigarette in my mouth.

I love the Beautiful Evil that nighttime brings.

I hope you guys liked that I shared this, and this opened up your guys eyes to what is possible, and how hard this stuff really is at times.

If there is one thing that really can be gleamed from this information is that Game really is a Numbers Game. That's it. That is all it is.

Discussion now open. Any questions you have, shoot.

Post: #2

Thanks for the data.

One quick question (which you might have answered and I may have missed): Did you target any particular girls, or was it just attractive ones?

I mean, did you limit yourself to girls on their own/in pairs, or did you go for girls in big groups (etc.) I imagine those sorts of details probably have a big effect on conversion rate, so it'd be interesting.

(For instance, I approach a lot less but only pick one and two sets because it ups my conversion rate. Some people probably do better in groups etc.)

Post: #3

G of all the girls you work there wasnt one youd consider a good fun time to keep around? just not into repeats or porque? danke

Post: #4

5% sounds around right to me, good breakdown g

Post: #5

(01-16-2013 11:49 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  Thanks for the data.

One quick question (which you might have answered and I may have missed): Did you target any particular girls, or was it just attractive ones?

I mean, did you limit yourself to girls on their own/in pairs, or did you go for girls in big groups (etc.) I imagine those sorts of details probably have a big effect on conversion rate, so it'd be interesting.

(For instance, I approach a lot less but only pick one and two sets because it ups my conversion rate. Some people probably do better in groups etc.)

Good question. I will approach any and all; solo girls, two sets, mixed sets, groups of girl, as long as there is an opening for a clean "punch". I wrote a post a little while ago on here about approaching groups of 2 girls and 1 guy.

(01-16-2013 11:55 AM)calihunter Wrote:  G of all the girls you work there wasnt one youd consider a good fun time to keep around? just not into repeats or porque? danke

There were a few. The model that was in Elite went back to her country. The other model, I cut loose because she was too crazy. I actually saw her last friday again when I was with another girl.

A Ukrainian girl and Asian girl and Hungarian girl were tourists.

One girl I really liked was Nicaraguan, but she ended up dissing me. I think she had a boyfriend or something.

Meeting a girl that I will keep around? Sh*t, that is even harder than swooping.

Post: #6

A man should enjoy playing the game nearly as much as the prize.

Just like with hunting or fishing, swooping girls can be 98% dull bullshit and 2% action.

Post: #7

Thanks for the data G.

Post: #8

Excellent breakdown. I have read many of your posts and blog entries. You provide a lot of insight into health, travel, style, music and some other topics. A guy can have his style, health, bankroll and location perfect but at at the end of the day, running game and closing women is about approaches. You really break that down in this thread. I think a large percentage of us on RVF are about acquiring new women and close ratios vary by individual. I am always curious to see how many guys actually go out solo and approach. Over 200 approaches with 11 closes at high end venues suited up. Nice job Sir.

Post: #9

My question: What was the "face time" of each of your 11 swoops ie the total time you spent with that girl from approach to intimacy?

I'd like to know your style if you don't mind.

So as for those 11 successful interactions, were they long chill interactions [you find receptive girl, stick exclusively to her build comfort and leave with her at the end of the night] or were they short passionate interactions [where you socialize with lots of girls find DTF one and yank her out after 30mins-1h]??

Did you notice the pattern or was it rather random?

Post: #10

Curious what type of clubs you roll to (high end probably, but dance-y or more lounge-y)? How much do you prowl the smoke-grounds? How much do you dance?

Your number seem about right for a good city in USA w/good logistics. About 1 new girl every 2-3 nights.

Just curious, what were you hottest nights? Im guessing Weds-Saturday?

Post: #11

(01-16-2013 11:42 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  11 might seem high or low to some of you. Not sure. But the thing I found interesting is that I only convert on 5% of the girls I approach. (Maybe 4% depending on which numbers we use).

This is great.

Think about it. By my recollections, id say the common man converts only about 1% of all the women he interacts with in his life.

Problem is, the common man doesnt meets that many women, getting his women mainly from two large groups: coeds, and coworkers.

I read once that the average number for a western male is 7, in his entire life. Thats his first girlfriend, that time at that party, his college girlfriend, the woman he marries, that one from accounting, that one from craigslist, and his second wife. A pretty ordinary life.

So in less than 2 months, you are experiencing what a common man only lives in a lifetime. What they try, you do.

Keep on G, keep on.

Post: #12

I need to approach more - single Biggest lesson learned from this data crunch.

I probably only get 11 approaches in a three - night cycle of going out.

Break down @G your differences in 'Surgical' game and regular 'pipe' game. To me I am way to calculated on approaching but sometimes this shoots me in the foot because I over think shit and miss those little windows of opportunities. But to approach like a mad man that only happens in key times, mostly summer when the weather is nice and everybody is all over the place on the street, streetcar, subway, in line, inside venues.

Post: #13

(01-16-2013 03:04 PM)germanico Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:42 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  11 might seem high or low to some of you. Not sure. But the thing I found interesting is that I only convert on 5% of the girls I approach. (Maybe 4% depending on which numbers we use).

This is great.

Think about it. By my recollections, id say the common man converts only about 1% of all the women he interacts with in his life.

Problem is, the common man doesnt meets that many women, getting his women mainly from two large groups: coeds, and coworkers.

I read once that the average number for a western male is 7, in his entire life. Thats his first girlfriend, that time at that party, his college girlfriend, the woman he marries, that one from accounting, that one from craigslist, and his second wife. A pretty ordinary life.

So in less than 2 months, you are experiencing what a common man only lives in a lifetime. What they try, you do.

Keep on G, keep on.

Damn, I never thought of it that way. The amount of "life" we live compared to the average guy. Most of us in a year will have done more than the average man in his lifetime.

Post: #14

Tremendous data sheet!

When you approach a chick, you're not flying under the radar, she knows what's up right?

WIA

Post: #15

(01-16-2013 01:51 PM)XXL Wrote:  My question: What was the "face time" of each of your 11 swoops ie the total time you spent with that girl from approach to intimacy?

I'd like to know your style if you don't mind.

So as for those 11 successful interactions, were they long chill interactions [you find receptive girl, stick exclusively to her build comfort and leave with her at the end of the night] or were they short passionate interactions [where you socialize with lots of girls find DTF one and yank her out after 30mins-1h]??

Did you notice the pattern or was it rather random?

Great question. I really wanted to see if there was some sort of "formula" I could come up with from this info that could make me more successful.

The swoops were all over the map from:

- Street Game pull from a girl I met at an ATM near my crib
- Restaurants, chilling at the bar on a Tues night
- Late night club meets
- Early night meets to 2nd date
- Meeting girls in groups and venue bouncing them

Pretty much a mixture of everything. I posted on here before that I infiltrated a group of a guy and a girl and ending up raging with them. I tried to kiss her no less than 20 times to no avail. Then back at my crib, I swooped her standing up doggy in my closet while showing her my suit collection and her friend on the couch. Both of those girls were mad fly.

(01-16-2013 01:59 PM)DVY Wrote:  Curious what type of clubs you roll to (high end probably, but dance-y or more lounge-y)? How much do you prowl the smoke-grounds? How much do you dance?

Your number seem about right for a good city in USA w/good logistics. About 1 new girl every 2-3 nights.

Just curious, what were you hottest nights? Im guessing Weds-Saturday?

I do it all. I prefer outdoor bars and restaurants. But I will go to crazy dance clubs later in the night if I have to. I like more loungy though. I do work Smoke Game non-stop and I do have dance skills.

In my city you can easily go out 7 nights per week. I almost never do on Sun and Mon though. Tuesday night was a good night for me for sure.

I like Tues, Wed, Thurs. Less "weekend warriors" and tourists. Easier to operate.

(01-16-2013 03:15 PM)kosko Wrote:  I need to approach more - single Biggest lesson learned from this data crunch.

I probably only get 11 approaches in a three - night cycle of going out.

Break down @G your differences in 'Surgical' game and regular 'pipe' game. To me I am way to calculated on approaching but sometimes this shoots me in the foot because I over think shit and miss those little windows of opportunities. But to approach like a mad man that only happens in key times, mostly summer when the weather is nice and everybody is all over the place on the street, streetcar, subway, in line, inside venues.

Yeah, approaching is the key. I will "blind approach" a lot ie I am not sure the girl is that fly, just to get momentum. I am like perpetual motion, I am always talking with someone, guy, girl, bouncer, owner, bartender, promoter etc.

Here is the difference:

Pipe Building Game: I will do what I mentioned above. A more "shotgun" approach, if you will. Hit on a ton of girls and sift through to get the ones I want.

Surgical Game: More "post and chop" type Game. This is when I usually have places more "on lock" and I sniper girls more. I put the red dot on them and then squeeze for kill shots.

I usually use "Pipe Building Game" when I get to a new city fresh.

Then switch to "Surgical Game" once I have a full pipe. Because at that point it comes down to "managing the pipe" and I don't have enough free time to deal with a deluge of fresh leads.

(01-16-2013 03:27 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Tremendous data sheet!

When you approach a chick, you're not flying under the radar, she knows what's up right?

WIA

What do you mean?

Going more "direct"?

Post: #16

I think he's asking how quickly you make your sexual intentions known.

Post: #17

(01-16-2013 03:31 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 03:27 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Tremendous data sheet!

When you approach a chick, you're not flying under the radar, she knows what's up right?

WIA

What do you mean?

Going more "direct"?

I'm assuming you're talking to her in such a way that she knows that you're not trying to be her friend, or just trading a few words @ a venue.

WIA

Post: #18

(01-16-2013 03:52 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 03:31 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 03:27 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Tremendous data sheet!

When you approach a chick, you're not flying under the radar, she knows what's up right?

WIA

What do you mean?

Going more "direct"?

I'm assuming you're talking to her in such a way that she knows that you're not trying to be her friend, or just trading a few words @ a venue.

WIA

Good question.

My "Game Vibe" I throw down is unique I think, but pretty textbook if I think about it.

I give off a super confident, relaxed vibe, sort of like the "mysterious, handsome, well dressed, millionaire, cool, playboy that might have a somewhat shady past" type vibe. Which actually comes pretty natural to me, because that is basically me.

It is pretty "one size fits all" I have found.

I don't really talk dirty to girls, I have and I do, but only if the situation calls for it. I do kind of fly under the radar, and get to know a girl.

I want her thinking that I am the most interesting person she has ever met and completely different from anyone she usually meets in clubs. I crack a lot of funny jokes, positive vibe and throw in a little slang so she knows where I come from.

I am big on "mastery of my domain" and Alpha vibes. I come off as the type of guy that will protect a girl and make her smile at the same time. It is kind of romancey type sh*t but with a new school twist. I do things like double light girls smokes. Classy and Gentlemanly steez.

I am constantly listening to her answers and screening and qualifying though. I pay attention to who she is with, what she is doing, when she is leaving, where she lives, why she is out, how she is going to get home.

The Five W's with an H.

I am trying to figure out what type of person she is. When you have been doing this as long as I have you have so much information stored in your mind, you run formulas to see the best way to swoop her. It becomes instinctual.

Keep in mind, the more I drink, the less smooth I get and I get more "direct" shall we say.

I typically "lead girls down the canyon" and set a trap ie my crib and swooping.

I try to kiss girls usually very soon after meeting them, so they do know what's up. I isolate hard with drinks and smokes.

This was a little rambling, but I hope it makes sense. My Game style is a little hard to verbalize.

Post: #19

(01-16-2013 03:04 PM)germanico Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:42 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  11 might seem high or low to some of you. Not sure. But the thing I found interesting is that I only convert on 5% of the girls I approach. (Maybe 4% depending on which numbers we use).

This is great.

Think about it. By my recollections, id say the common man converts only about 1% of all the women he interacts with in his life.

Problem is, the common man doesnt meets that many women, getting his women mainly from two large groups: coeds, and coworkers.

I read once that the average number for a western male is 7, in his entire life. Thats his first girlfriend, that time at that party, his college girlfriend, the woman he marries, that one from accounting, that one from craigslist, and his second wife. A pretty ordinary life.

So in less than 2 months, you are experiencing what a common man only lives in a lifetime. What they try, you do.

Keep on G, keep on.

What's funny about this is that while I too am living the life of ten men, I still don't feel like there's enough time in my life to get everything accomplished that I want to do.

This might be a fundamental difference between guys who are in the game and the spectators/civilians.

Post: #20

(01-16-2013 04:14 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I am constantly listening to her answers and screening and qualifying though. I pay attention to who she is with, what she is doing, when she is leaving, where she lives, why she is out, how she is going to get home.

The Five W's with an H.

I do all of those Ws and H except when is she leaving?

How do you finagle that, especially with it being a weekday (Tues-Thursday)?

Only time I can get that sort of info smoothly is when shes out of town and I ask her when her leaving flight is?

Asking her when she needs to wake up tomorrow, disrupts the fantasy/momentum; so I avoid this question.

Hows your approach/style?

Post: #21

Another question from a previous thread...

How do you approach seated tables at restaurants?

The dynamic is somewhat strained w/them sitting and eating, w/you standing and chatting.

On the other hand, restaurant bars are easier to strike up conversation w/nearby people tho. Been invited to join other groups, etc, etc.

Post: #22

(01-16-2013 04:19 PM)soup Wrote:  What's funny about this is that while I too am living the life of ten men, I still don't feel like there's enough time in my life to get everything accomplished that I want to do.

This might be a fundamental difference between guys who are in the game and the spectators/civilians.

That is because the common man has no ambition. As long as they get to watch sundays game and have coors light or some other piss-drink, they are satisfied.

As for women, they, as G has so clearly said, get laid once and think they are "killing it".

However, its not about the quantity of women you bed, not even about the quality. Its about how satisfied you are about what you have done. You are not satisfied, its not enough for you, because you KNOW that you can do much much more than that. We can do more than that.

Post: #23

(01-16-2013 04:14 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I try to kiss girls usually very soon after meeting them, so they do know what's up. I isolate hard with drinks and smokes.

If you're open minded to some experiments then, for the name of science and art of game, try not kissing. What I mean is to do your thing as usual but play with the sexual tension a lot more and add more finesse to it.

For example, as you gradually get closer to her like you were warming her up for a inevitable kiss, prolong it a bit and when you get very close when she's looking at your lips more than your eyes just stay there and don't kiss put on devilish smile and say "not here" [she will get it that not here = somewhere else]. Or just give her the most subtle little kiss you can, that's cool too.

Same thing with groping/molesting etc, instead of grabbing ass put hands on her hips and subtly play with her skirt. Or instead of firmly putting hands all over her, as you talk to her in isolation with your drinks and cigars very subtly move your fingers over her neck/thighs/laps/inner side of arms like barely touching her skin. Some comments about how soft and smooth her skin is are very appropriate here. Also playing with her hair is cool [I love it] it's very intimate to me if she's on the fence then few words about the beauty of hair do the job. All of those are sexy as fuck and get girls boiling inside. But damn, who the hell I'm talking to, I'm sure you know what I mean haha.

Do that kind of subtle/ballet escalation in few interactions while still in public, save the manhandling for bedroom and tell us how your end results differ [if at all]. Just a little thought

Good luck!

Post: #24

Great post G. I have a question regarding Nightclub which you mentioned. Not sure if it was asked before, I fear this thread is going to get very big pretty soon.

Whats your take on the NightClubs? Its clearly you like them and run game on them. You also said you rolled solo. So hows your typical Nightclub night? Do you just arrive suited up, order a drink, place yourself on the bar, constant moving around, chatting up the bartender, the bouncer?

How much time do you "give the club a chance" if its still empty?

Post: #25

2/10 would not roll with G.

Seriously dude, when I go through a dry spell but I know my game is tight, I always look to make small adjustments, but I know it's just a small sample size of shitty results.

Similarly when I'm in a purple patch, I know the numbers were eventually going to work themselves out.

This summer I was swinging like Barry Bonds circa 2001. Comparatively speaking, I'm warming the fuckin bench right now. I'll be back though, I can assure you of that.

Thanks for sharing brother G.