Post: #51

Great post Phile but are you really wondering why the guy on the first video is not getting any pussy? That dude is corny as hell. Even my sister who is known to date really nice guys wouldnt date this guy.

If he was adapting to the market, i doubt he would be complaining on youtube about not getting any pussy.

I think there is a difference between coming across as nice and coming across as corny. The latter one will hardly ever get any pussy.

I wouldnt even date corny girls, unless they are really reallly hot.

Post: #52

The core of all of Athlone's writing is the same: complaining about how difficult and unfair it is to be black, and then finding ways to blame that squarely on white people. In this piece, he goes a step further, using Black America as a scapegoat to make his claim that by hurting Black America, whites are going to in turn worsen themselves. I've never once seen any solutions proposed or anything other than racial anger that's cleverly worded and disguised to come off as intellectual. The lengths at which some of these responses have been dragged out despite saying the exact same thing (complaining about the state of blacks, blaming whites) is IRT-esque, and it's honestly tiring.



That said, it's obvious this is something Athlone is passionate about (nearly every single one of his posts is about race) I just think there's a fine line where enough is enough. All of you will quickly back him, and criticize me, as he's a long-standing member of the forum and I am not, but I can't be the only who feels that the race obsession in his writing is an intellectual turn-off and is borderline discrediting.

Nothing personal, Athlone.
I'm sure you're a respectable, intelligent man and a great player, I'm just not a fan of your writing.

Post: #53

(01-05-2013 06:50 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  But, I know, you are not saying that. You are only saying that things will somewhat balance out statistically.

Then why do you have all these pictures of guys with guns???

Your pictures make it seem like we are headed for tribal warfare. They don't show gradual change. They show total cultural erosion.

I've already explained why I used those photos. I can't be much clearer than I have been.

Quote:More non-Black gangs? Thats what you are predicting?

More non-Black crime? More non-Black violence? What are you basing that on?

Current figures show violent crime going down.

What makes you think Whites, Latinos, and Asians will commit more crime in the future?

Because men are getting more frustrated?

Here is what I see men doing as they get more frustrated:



The internet has changed everything. Instead of going outside to fraternize, boys are now going online. Frustrations can be vented online! Connections made. Support found.

Why join a gang when porn is free?

I predict masturbation will skyrocket!

Seriously!

In my opinion, your article was overly sensationalized. There is no evidence that obesity is still going up, it seems to have leveled off. Illegitimacy will certainly go up because no one wants to get married anymore.

As far as crime and violence, these seem to be at all time lows. Anti-male attitudes may be on the rise but at the end of the day, all women want a man. Everybody will still need sex and there will be plenty of opportunities for guys with game.

I'll give you hypergamy. Which has always existed.

Of your 5 points, 2 are trending opposite of your prediction (obesity, violence)

I don't think things are as dire as you make them seem. I'm surprised you are so pessimistic about the direction of America.

I'm surprised you are so optimistic.

We'll see who is correct in due time.

Post: #54

(01-05-2013 01:13 PM)IQVX Wrote:  The core of all of Athlone's writing is the same: complaining about how difficult and unfair it is to be black, and then finding ways to blame that squarely on white people.

Really? The core of ALL of my writing? Is that so?

Right, then. Let's see you back up this claim. Why don't you go ahead and get a solid sample size of my writing and show precisely how it matches the theme you've outlined here. Remember, you said that ALL of my writing is the same, giving you quite a high bar to meet. Please, show me how ALL of my writing is about black victimhood and white guilt.

http://www.returnofkings.com/author/athlone-mcginnis

I have nine articles up over at Return of Kings. Why don't you start with breaking each of them down and showing how ALL of them meet the theme you outlined. I'll wait here.

Quote:In this piece, he goes a step further, using Black America as a scapegoat to make his claim that by hurting Black America, whites are going to in turn worsen themselves.

Is that really what I said? Interesting, I didn't even know.

What I remember saying is that a series of negative social trends (not all of which were the direct product of white racism, as I've already outlined in this thread more than once) have resulted in the current state of black America and that other communities within America are not immune to similar developments.

But, then again, I suppose we'll all hear what we want to hear.

Quote:I've never once seen any solutions proposed or anything other than racial anger that's cleverly worded and disguised to come off as intellectual.

Quote:That said, it's obvious this is something Athlone is passionate about (nearly every single one of his posts is about race)

Prove it, bro. Again, I'll wait.

Quote:I just think there's a fine line where enough is enough. All of you will quickly back him, and criticize me, as he's a long-standing member of the forum and I am not,

They're not backing me up because I have standing here. Other members on this site have had no qualms about calling me out when I've been wrong.

They're going to back me up here (for the most part) because I simply make much more sense than you do. There aren't many ways around that.

Quote:but I can't be the only who feels that the race obsession in his writing is an intellectual turn-off and is borderline discrediting.

You're right.

Others have come before you and come to similarly daft conclusions. Thus, you're not alone in the display of moronic reasoning you've put forward. There are other fools among us.

Quote:Nothing personal, Athlone.

Quote:I'm sure you're a respectable, intelligent man and a great player, I'm just not a fan of your writing.

Post: #55

Athlone,

Thanks for a lively debate. I know its not easy to defend every little detail that you write. I think you have probably won this exchange and I'm almost done but I want to respond at least one more time before I concede defeat. Please answer my questions in bold.

Thanks and respect. Intellectual exchange is how men advance their thoughts and learn from each other.

(01-05-2013 01:48 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I've already explained why I used those photos. I can't be much clearer than I have been.

Yes, you used those photos as an example of what happens when men become marginalized and grow up without fathers. You predicted that gangs, violence and crime would go up.

But, crime rates are down? Violence is down. We are not headed in the direction of those photos. They were an inaccurate portrayal of our current direction. Non-blacks are not joining street gangs and committing street crimes in large numbers.

Violence has been trending downwards for the last 1000 years. We are becoming less violent as a people.

The internet has changed the way males express themselves.

The internet has partially filled a void that used to be filled by gangs and acting out. Bored, unfocused, boys can now go online and connect with the world, make friends, express themselves, and have sexual experiences (masturbation)

I am dead serious about this prediction:

(01-05-2013 06:50 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  I predict masturbation will skyrocket!

We are much more pacified now and docile now. I don't think non-black men will turn to gangs and violence as much as you think. We will log on to the internet to experience the world. We will go outside less. Free porn will help keep men sedated and off the streets!

Your pictures of Black gangsters show total cultural erosion and a "kill or be killed" society. I don't see America devolving to that point. Those photos were sensationalistic at best, and fear mongering at worst, in my opinion.

Will you admit that violent crime is way down statistically?


Will you admit that those photos are an exaggeration of where we are headed?

--

You also predict that obesity will rise?

But, isn't obesity on the decline in America?

Will you admit that obesity has leveled off, thus making your first prediction highly unlikely?

(01-05-2013 01:48 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I'm surprised you are so optimistic.

You know I am an optimist. We have been through worse. We are very resilient. Look at all the progress Black people have made recently. 50 years ago, you probably would not have been allowed in the Ivy league, now, you are on your way to becoming a wealthy man. Enjoy your youth. There will always be bad in the world and good in the world. What you choose to focus on will effect your perspective.

(01-05-2013 01:48 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  We'll see who is correct in due time.

Do you want to be correct?

Or, are you hoping to be wrong?

I mean, you are predicting more violence, more fat people, more difficult women, etc.

For societies sake, I hope you are wrong.

Post: #56

(01-05-2013 01:13 PM)IQVX Wrote:  The core of all of Athlone's writing is the same: complaining about how difficult and unfair it is to be black, and then finding ways to blame that squarely on white people. In this piece, he goes a step further, using Black America as a scapegoat to make his claim that by hurting Black America, whites are going to in turn worsen themselves. I've never once seen any solutions proposed or anything other than racial anger that's cleverly worded and disguised to come off as intellectual. The lengths at which some of these responses have been dragged out despite saying the exact same thing (complaining about the state of blacks, blaming whites) is IRT-esque, and it's honestly tiring.



That said, it's obvious this is something Athlone is passionate about (nearly every single one of his posts is about race) I just think there's a fine line where enough is enough. All of you will quickly back him, and criticize me, as he's a long-standing member of the forum and I am not, but I can't be the only who feels that the race obsession in his writing is an intellectual turn-off and is borderline discrediting.

Nothing personal, Athlone.
I'm sure you're a respectable, intelligent man and a great player, I'm just not a fan of your writing.

I would love to agree with you, but I can't.

I never understood why people called Athlone a race troll. I have disagreed with him many times and I think he is sometimes wrong but a race troll? I disagree.

Isn't it possible to talk about race without being a race troll?

If someone makes a claim about your race, aren't you allowed to explain your position without being called a troll?

Race trolling is what IRT does. What Athlone does is simply discuss racial issues. Few people have the courage, wit, awareness, and grace to do it as well as he does.

Race is a big issue, why can't we discuss it. Racism exists, why can't we discuss it?

I have a challenge for anyone who thinks Athlone is a race troll. Please provide a link that shows him race trolling?

99% of the time he is discussing race in a mature, educational way. Or explaining how racism effected our social structure. Or, simple pointing out what is factual history.

Talking about race is not race trolling. Educated dialogue about race is not race trolling?

What you did is race trolling. Accusing someone without showing any proof.

Show some proof if you want to be taken seriously.

Post: #57

A troll is someone who does it intentionally to waste time. I don't think he's race trolling here, I just think the subject of race gets beaten to death by Athlone all the time, without offering any real suggestions to fix them. To many people, particularly the ones who thought this was a great piece, this is an acceptable style of writing. To me, it is not.

Also, I'm not accusing anyone of being IRT's equal.
I was using the fact that Athlone's posts remind me of IRT at times (I said IRT-esque) to make a point.

I'm curious as to how you would respond if your views were challenged in person, Athlone.
Can't respond to someone using a bunch of GIFs when you're face-to-face.

Post: #58

(01-05-2013 04:30 PM)IQVX Wrote:  A troll is someone who does it intentionally to waste time.

I doubt Athlone is purposely trying to waste anyone's time. His post are very focused, specific, and he cites sources, studies, and related evidence.

He might be killing time in his dorm room but wasting our time, no. I get great value from his posts.

(01-05-2013 04:30 PM)IQVX Wrote:  I don't think he's race trolling here

Oh, so you are just not interested in discussions on race?

Fair enough.

(01-05-2013 04:30 PM)IQVX Wrote:  I just think the subject of race gets beaten to death

If you are not interested in discussing race, why are you in race threads?

You could easily pass over them and not read them.

Post: #59

Giovonny, you absolutely murdered what I said with your quotes out of context.
Not sure if you're stupid or manipulative, but please re-read what I wrote.

Post: #60

(01-05-2013 04:52 PM)IQVX Wrote:  Not sure if you're stupid or manipulative

I am both.

Please explain where I murdered you post???

Post: #61

(01-05-2013 03:28 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Will you admit that violent crime is way down statistically?

It is down.

Quote:Will you admit that those photos are an exaggeration of where we are headed?

No.

Quote:Will you admit that obesity has leveled off, thus making your first prediction highly unlikely?

Obesity has leveled off. An increase in the future is not improbable, though it would be very slight if it happened. A decrease is just as likely. We've seen the peak of the epidemic already for the most part.

Quote:Do you want to be correct?

Not particularly.

Quote:For societies sake, I hope you are wrong.

Me too.

Post: #62

(01-03-2013 07:51 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Athlone, another great article. What do you attribute as the cause of the disintegration of the black nuclear family at a faster rate than white families? Just a quick search and it seems like from the early 1960's it went from 7.7% to over 70% in the mid 1990s - an almost 10x increase in 30 years. Was it the LBJ welfare state that subsidized out of wedlock births? I would imagine that has to be it, but perhaps there is something more. Is there anything cultural that you can put your finger on? Did the black community swallow the tenets of cultural marxism hook line and sinker, embracing feminism as enthusiastically as racial politics? The cultural revolution and the civil rights movements both occurred, not coincidentally, at the same time. Any thoughts?

1) Welfare led to black men being kicked out of homes and it also eliminated some of the public shame associated with getting a woman pregnant and leaving. This is really bad for black women who often get knocked up early by the wrong type of guy. I truly believe that if there was an expectation of more responsibility being taken then more precautions would be taken.

2) Television. Television led to the eventual widespread acceptance of incorrect stereotypes of blacks as a whole. It also created an unrealistic expectation of what life could be. The result was that, as was the case with wealthy southern whites and poor whites, people began to feel that to obtain that life they had to subjugate another group.

3) Overpaid athletes and entertainers. If you read black literature from and prior to the early 20th century you will notice that many black parents wanted their kids to be doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers...Fast forward to current generations and most parents can't wait to shove a ball in their kid's hands. What happens is that sports are the main focus until everyone realizes the kid won't make it (usually around middle or high school). At this point the kid is probably already behind and will usually begin acting out in school or leave school altogether to hide their ignorance. I knew a lot of kids who made it through to their junior year of high school barely able to read because they were better than most people on the court or the field.

4) Things like minimum wage and trade unions. Walter E. Williams does a far better job explaining this in "Race and Economics: How Much Can Be Blamed on Discrimination?" than I can but I'll try. Racism and prejudice exists today and it definitely existed before the decline of the black community. During and after slavery as well as before the decline of black america, blacks were highly skilled at many things. However, racism often stopped their ability to get work. What does one do in the face of that instead of rolling over? Once finds a way to punish someone for not hiring them. Before trade unions and minimum wage, a black person could offer to do an initial job (often of better quality and faster than their white counter parts) at a reduced rate to pick up clients. Even today it's tough for blacks to get some jobs because many feel they are not capable and they can often not offer to work for a cheap price initially to prove their ability.

5) The vilification of black organizations that were out to uplift the black community. When most people think of the Black Panthers they think of a group who hated whites and was all about "killing the pigs". In truth, as a group they were willing to stand for anyone who was being oppressed. You rarely hear about the positive programs they had like providing breakfast and homework help.

6) Coonery became tolerated. It's weird to read early 20th century black fiction where things like "you need to be on your best behavior in front of white folks" is said, but it is clear that the way a lot of black americans act today would not have been tolerated by their elders 100 years ago. There was a time when being educated and bettering yourself was something to aspire to. Far too many blacks today seem to aspire to little more than acting like caricatures.

7) An accepted distrust of the police. Black neighborhoods were better places when community policing was prominent and the whole "snitches get stitches" thing was not common place. Community policing also gave residents the chance to let police know what crimes should be priorities.

Obviously the list can go on.

Post: #63

(01-03-2013 04:54 PM)TheMachinist Wrote:  All that being said how do you right a sinking ship?

The decriminalization of certain drugs and allowing communities to have more control over how aggressively the police enforce certain crimes in their neighborhoods. Doing away with pro sports would also help. It will never happen but a shift in our education would be a plus as well. Every kid should not go to college, but every kid should leave high school proficient enough in a basic trade to find work if they wish to do so. Making recipients of public assistance participate in things like community beautification efforts and setting a time limit on the assistance. Lastly, a draft would help. I've known so many poor blacks and whites who never get beyond 500 miles from their homes. If every American was forced to do 2 years of service, one in a foreign country and one working on public works project or something similar in another state, that would probably help some youths get some much needed perspective.

Post: #64

(01-05-2013 04:30 PM)IQVX Wrote:  A troll is someone who does it intentionally to waste time. I don't think he's race trolling here, I just think the subject of race gets beaten to death by Athlone all the time, without offering any real suggestions to fix them. To many people, particularly the ones who thought this was a great piece, this is an acceptable style of writing. To me, it is not.

Then ignore it.

Quote:I'm curious as to how you would respond if your views were challenged in person, Athlone.
Can't respond to someone using a bunch of GIFs when you're face-to-face.

Firstly, I'd like to note your complete failure to respond to my challenge stated above:

(01-05-2013 02:57 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Really? The core of ALL of my writing? Is that so?

Right, then. Let's see you back up this claim. Why don't you go ahead and get a solid sample size of my writing and show precisely how it matches the theme you've outlined here. Remember, you said that ALL of my writing is the same, giving you quite a high bar to meet. Please, show me how ALL of my writing is about black victimhood and white guilt.

http://www.returnofkings.com/author/athlone-mcginnis

I have nine articles up over at Return of Kings. Why don't you start with breaking each of them down and showing how ALL of them meet the theme you outlined. I'll wait here.

Quote:That said, it's obvious this is something Athlone is passionate about (nearly every single one of his posts is about race)

Prove it, bro. Again, I'll wait.

Your failure to address this is telling.

Instead, you respond with some weak claim about my usage of gifs and what I would do in person? Is this seriously the best you can come up with?

What on Earth do you think I would do? You'd get the same response that you got here, only right from my mouth.

I'd ask you to substantiate your claim about my making every post about race, and then I would wait. You'd fail to respond because you really have no argument at all and are merely expressing your own irrational butthurt.

You'd then try to claim that other forumers were backing me because of my rep. I'd respond by saying that they've openly disagreed with me before (as Gio has been doing this entire thread), and the reason most of them are backing me now is because I have a better argument than you do.

Then you'd argue that there are other forumers who'd agree with your viewpoint. I'd concur, since it is indeed fact that there are other fools on the internet. You'd try to say that all of this was nothing personal; I would give a sarcastic response befitting the level of bullshit you're trying to feed me. You'd say you're not a fan of my writing, and I'd proceed to dismiss your critique in the only manner befitting its sheer stupidity.

In the end, you'd look just as daft as you do now. There'd be no difference.

Post: #65

I've witnessed the debate above and I think I can offer my two cents worth. I'm not a long-standing member of this forum, obviously, I joined a few days ago, therefore I'm not qualified to comment on what Athlone has previously posted in regards to race etc.

However, the piece he recently posted, the one mainly being discussed in this thread, was NOT in anyway a criticism of white people at all, so how you (IQVX - not hating on you, I am new so don't know you) can say it was, is slightly odd to me. Sure, there were points made about previous policies created by whites against blacks, which are significantly relevant to the issues raised in the article, but at no point did he do a Jesse Jackson and blame all white people nowadays for those problems. He didn't at all BLAME whites at all. He actually directed blame at well-meant policies that have caused unintentional damage.

It was in fact one of the best articles I've read about society in a long time, and far better than the P.C garbage that masquerades as professional journalism in the MSM. I'm not just saying that to ingratiate myself into the forum, but it is an honest opinion born from frustration at the dross we're fed daily about men's issues in the mainstream. Black men, white men, mixed-race etc... ALL men can gain something from that article.

I'll be honest, I used to be one of those white guys who got pissed off at the things you claim Athlone does. However, a black guy I watch on Youtube, who does boxing predictions and talks boxing in general, laid it out pretty plainly for me. Its very difficult for us white guys to actually understand the black situation. I won't go into specifics but its correct. I'm certainly not some P.C self hating white-hater but I get it. Here's the link(s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC3JYksdNTM & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4onayYypEBk

He discusses the issue of black people not liking other black people who they deem as a sell-out or as being 'too white' etc. Yes, there are double standards indeed, and they are born out of the ideas of well meaning white self-hating liberals usually, as I said. I'm not saying all white liberals are self-hating btw... But there is a theme.

Furthermore, the exchanges we have here are far more productive than the division-tactics the media enjoys playing in regards to race. We're out of the glare of the media and can discuss things as adult men, and that is much more conducive in the way of furthering our advancement as men, in spite of the horrid way the MSM tries to play people off against each other in search of ratings.

All in all, I believe the next ten years will be actually a rather wonderful time for race relations in the West, as we men will all come together to fight feminism and the Matrist society that has entrapped young boys as victims, regardless of race, who need 'training' to be more feminine.

Post: #66

I'm interested on hearing the perspective of some of the intellectuals on here (including Athlone) on my proposal to solve some of the black education issues.

-The solution to me is to focus on reading and to a lesser extent solely during elementary school for Urban kids. double the time spent on reading/english and make Science less important. I mean when is the last time a periodic table helped a black man? They can't learn much even science in high school if their reading is not up to par. Bad reading skills hurts in all subjects. So it would make sense to focus on it completely at the elementary level at the expense of other subjects.

Post: #67

(01-05-2013 06:15 PM)DoctaWho Wrote:  6) Coonery became tolerated. It's weird to read early 20th century black fiction where things like "you need to be on your best behavior in front of white folks" is said, but it is clear that the way a lot of black americans act today would not have been tolerated by their elders 100 years ago. There was a time when being educated and bettering yourself was something to aspire to. Far too many blacks today seem to aspire to little more than acting like caricatures.

What also contributes to "Coonery" is my people using "making money" as a excuse for almost anything negative. Coonery on TV/Movies?..."well he/she is making money". Deterioration of an artform (.i.e. hip-hop)?...."well he/she is making money". Illegal activities or glorification of criminals?..."well he/she is making money".

(01-05-2013 07:08 PM)jammer Wrote:  I'm interested on hearing the perspective of some of the intellectuals on here (including Athlone) on my proposal to solve some of the black education issues.

-The solution to me is to focus on reading and to a lesser extent solely during elementary school for Urban kids. double the time spent on reading/english and make Science less important. I mean when is the last time a periodic table helped a black man? They can't learn much even science in high school if their reading is not up to par. Bad reading skills hurts in all subjects. So it would make sense to focus on it completely at the elementary level at the expense of other subjects.

Sounds good, but....NO!

Even if the student is at a great reading level in high-school, most STEM majors are structured on the assumption that the college freshman is starting with Calculus I. That means:

- Pre-Calculus by 2nd semester of 12th grade
- Trigonometry by 1st semester of 12th grade
- Algebra 3 & 4 in 11th grade
- Geometry in 10th grade
- Algebra 1 & 2 by 9th grade

...with Chemistry and Physics also done during grades 11 & 12. You cannot do high-school Chemistry with some Algebra and Physics without some Trigonometry.

If a student (in America) is not on the above schedule, they are looking at 5 or 6 year college degree programs in most STEM majors.

Post: #68

(01-05-2013 06:27 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I'd respond by saying that they've openly disagreed with me before (as Gio has been doing this entire thread), and the reason most of them are backing me now is because I have a better argument than you do.

No. They'll disagree with me because I called out your writing out in it's entirety rather than finding specific points to take issue with. And no one else has the balls to do that.

As proof of the fact you're being backed irrationally, Giovonny attacked me with quotes that literally cut sentences short to make it look like I said something else, and then went a step further and misinterpreted the rest anyway. That post isn't far back at all, feel free to look at it and see how he made a mockery of the quote tag, and himself.

All the petty sh*t aside, though, I do have a legit question.

Would you disagree that it's human nature to prefer one's own race?

Post: #69

Post: #70

(01-06-2013 12:02 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 11:54 PM)IQVX Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 06:27 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I'd respond by saying that they've openly disagreed with me before (as Gio has been doing this entire thread), and the reason most of them are backing me now is because I have a better argument than you do.

No. They'll disagree with me because I called out your writing out in it's entirety rather than finding specific points to take issue with. And no one else has the balls to do that.

If that makes you feel better, then believe that.

Quote:
Would you disagree that it's human nature to prefer one's own race?

Yes.

Post: #71

(01-04-2013 03:06 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  America will become like Black America??? The worst parts of Black America???

Call me crazy but I think that sounds pretty ignorant. In order for the rest of us to become like the worst parts of Black America we would all have to be moved to another continent and enslaved for a couple hundred years, be cut off from education, jobs, real estate, and wealth building for a couple hundred years, and then be returned to mainstream society will no education, capital, family structure, or collective culture/momentum.

Then we would all have to go prison at higher rates then other cultures and be exposed to drugs and violence at higher rates then other cultures.

And, all of us would probably have to lose a bit of hope and view ourselves as inferior.

If that happens, we might become like the worst parts of Black America.

It's really an "apples and oranges" type of situation. A bad analogy.

It took White-Americans, Latino-Americans, and Asian-Americans hundreds or thousands of years to get to the point that they are at now. And, now all these cultures are going to be reduced to the level of "ghetto" Blacks???

Sounds like a bit of a stretch to me.

I think you are underestimating the problem. If you exclude religious subcultures, white America is already degrading rapidly. You see the same exact problems of inner-city ghetto America in trailer parks and backwoods America. The social problems of "white trash America" are already creeping into the middle-class suburbs of America. Single mothers on the dole, drugs, pure unadulterated ignorance and contempt of the educated.

Quote:How can you have family values if you are a slave? Slaves didn't have any rights or power to keep their families together..?

If the slave owner wants to break up the slave family, what can the slave do to keep his family together? Nothing, he is a slave!

I'm curious why you think black slaves had good family values? Is there any historical mention of this?

How would you even know this? Did you read this somewhere? Got any sources?

You are right, Samseau is mistaken in saying that black family values were stronger during slavery. What Samseau should have said is that black family values were stronger immediately after slavery until LBJ. Thomas Sowell has done a lot of research on this subject and it turns out that black legitimacy rates were just a shade under white legitimacy rates for this time period.

Quote:It sounds like you are saying that racism was not a factor in the destruction of the black american family unit and the current wealth gap between blacks and whites???

I think racism was definitely not a factor in the destruction of the black American family unit, but it definitely played a huge role in the current wealth gap. This is because racist laws were implemented - drug laws.

The decline of the black family unit is very simple to understand. LBJ's Great Society made single motherhood very attractive for woman at the margins. In other words, if you were a woman from a wealthy or middle-class family, the welfare you would receive from the state if you got knocked up out of wedlock would be a pittance compared to the standard of living you were used to. However, if you were a lower-class woman as most black Americans were, welfare might be more than you could make at the entry level of the job market. Before Great Society, single pregnant woman would be forced to turn to family assistance to survive, and your condition would be a source of great shame. If you were poor and black, you simply couldn't afford to rely on already poor family members if you got knocked up, and if you did, you probably were forced to marry the guy to survive. But now, there is no shame and no relying on no man! Just go down to the welfare office and grab your check. You don't have to marry the schlub. The pain to getting knocked up and having a kid was reduced dramatically.

From here, it is all downhill. No more relying on shame-inducing family assistance or marrying the man who knocked you up means no more being forced to marry an ambitious hard-working beta provider. The pain of screwing around with cads and getting knocked up lessens drastically. Pretty soon all the woman are dating playas and getting pregnant. The players don't stick around hence the "men are pigs, I don't need no man." The average black man sees this and loses his motivation to do well in school when he can just get laid by being an alpha asshole. Rinse, repeat, spiral downward.

Post: #72

(01-04-2013 09:35 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  Today, in 2012, it has never been a better time for an African American male to get an education and decide to enter mainstream economic life.

I know. I consult with a lot of companies, big and small. A close relative of mine is the Chief Human Resources officer of a publicly traded company. These firms would LOVE to hire African American males with college degrees, requisite skills, and obvious intelligence. I bet if Athlone walked into most Fortune 500 companies, he would get hired on the spot.

But Athlone is the exception rather than the rule. The marginalization of academic achievement inside the black young male community that Athlone talks about is so embedded that few will take that mainstream path.

The set of circumstances about which Athlone writes about is tragic in so many ways, but this particular aspect of the tragic drama is truly awful. Two or three generations of African American males -- many of whom could be tremendously productive -- are consigning themselves to be economic flotsam and jetsam. And of course the black politicians and pundits -- the Rangels, the Jacksons, the Sharptons, the Maxine Waters of the world -- are either not interested or totally ineffectual in doing some thing about this.

I hate to do this but I am going to have to call you out on this. The line about companies wanting to hire educated black men is complete utter B.S. From my experience I believe that to NOT be the case, companies generally hire people that are like them. I know this first hand and actually read this last week in one of the business magazines, this is the "first" thing they look for.
Secondly, they have done studies whereby they have sent out identical resumes with the same qualifications. One resume is clearly from a white person and the other from a black person, now WE all know who got more calls for interviews.
Now I am not some young fresh out of college guy who believes Obama will save the day and this is a new America (Canada in my case). I have been there, actually worked in Canada and Europe. I am in my 40's and still study because I see/know too many guys who are casualties of this job market.
In my latest gig, I have seen little "Jimmy" get a sweet job fresh out of college because Uncle was one of the managers. This at the expense of more senior candidates that were actually doing the same job. My personal favourite is the guy that calls his mate, says he is tired of his current job and would like to work for our company. A month later he is a manager at our company which is hilarious considering the hiring process consists of 6 interviews.
I also know a cute young white girl without college education who lands a decent job with minimum work experience.
Trust me I have more examples but hopefully you get the drift. I am not whining I am stating the reality not the dream that every young, educated, intelligent black male will always walk into a corporate job.

As for Sharpton and Jackson, I won't touch those puppetts for now.

Post: #73

(01-06-2013 01:19 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 09:35 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  Today, in 2012, it has never been a better time for an African American male to get an education and decide to enter mainstream economic life.

I know. I consult with a lot of companies, big and small. A close relative of mine is the Chief Human Resources officer of a publicly traded company. These firms would LOVE to hire African American males with college degrees, requisite skills, and obvious intelligence. I bet if Athlone walked into most Fortune 500 companies, he would get hired on the spot.

But Athlone is the exception rather than the rule. The marginalization of academic achievement inside the black young male community that Athlone talks about is so embedded that few will take that mainstream path.

The set of circumstances about which Athlone writes about is tragic in so many ways, but this particular aspect of the tragic drama is truly awful. Two or three generations of African American males -- many of whom could be tremendously productive -- are consigning themselves to be economic flotsam and jetsam. And of course the black politicians and pundits -- the Rangels, the Jacksons, the Sharptons, the Maxine Waters of the world -- are either not interested or totally ineffectual in doing some thing about this.

I hate to do this but I am going to have to call you out on this. The line about companies wanting to hire educated black men is complete utter B.S. From my experience I believe that to NOT be the case, companies generally hire people that are like them. I know this first hand and actually read this last week in one of the business magazines, this is the "first" thing they look for.
Secondly, they have done studies whereby they have sent out identical resumes with the same qualifications. One resume is clearly from a white person and the other from a black person, now WE all know who got more calls for interviews.
Now I am not some young fresh out of college guy who believes Obama will save the day and this is a new America (Canada in my case). I have been there, actually worked in Canada and Europe. I am in my 40's and still study because I see/know too many guys who are casualties of this job market.
In my latest gig, I have seen little "Jimmy" get a sweet job fresh out of college because Uncle was one of the managers. This at the expense of more senior candidates that were actually doing the same job. My personal favourite is the guy that calls his mate, says he is tired of his current job and would like to work for our company. A month later he is a manager at our company which is hilarious considering the hiring process consists of 6 interviews.
I also know a cute young white girl without college education who lands a decent job with minimum work experience.
Trust me I have more examples but hopefully you get the drift. I am not whining I am stating the reality not the dream that every young, educated, intelligent black male will always walk into a corporate job.

As for Sharpton and Jackson, I won't touch those puppetts for now.

Good post. Nepotism/social networking with influential people is most important if you want a satisfying and high-paying job. Many black people simply don't have those inroads with powerful people so they must search for jobs the old-fashioned way of looking for job ads. We all know that searching for a job is a lot like searching for women. Going on monster or career builders is like searching for pussy on OK Cupid. Sure you may do okay, but the best jobs(or girls) aren't going to advertised online. Access to those mean knowing the right people and having the right network. Unfortunately race effects who you know.

Post: #74

(01-04-2013 06:09 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  These pictures do not need to represent every black american. They need to represent the point I was making, which is as follows:
4. What happens when men in a certain culture are marginalized and their households become largely matriarchal?

The point of that section was to document the result of matriarchy (disappearance of black male role models) and the impact it has had on black males. I posit that this impact has been such that it has caused young men to rebel, lash out, and look for entirely nonconstructive ways of expressing their masculinity, and to do these things to a greater and more damaging extent than their peers (hence higher rates of black male criminality, academic reticence, etc).

The gang culture, which is probably the most visible and direct outgrowth of this development, just seemed to symbolize this whole dynamic the best in photographic form. I was hoping that the gangs themselves in the first two photos were obvious enough (clearly crips and bloods) that folks wouldn’t generalize too much (ex: “those are crips and bloods!” not “those are some violent young black guys!”-the first reaction is clearly more specific).

Quote:To answer the question of “what happened”..

#1 – fashion changed
#2 – the culture changed
#3 – black superstars were created
#4 – individual expression exploded

What actually happened:

1. Drugs
2. Welfare and Feminism
3. Racism

There's a movie about the history of the Crips and Bloods.
It doesn't address feminism and I haven't watched it since reading the manosphere, but as I recall the thesis there was:

Blue collar unemployment (and) Racism especially racist police (led to) Imprisonment of community leaders and male role models (led to) fatherless children (led to) gangs forming (followed by) drug economy strengthening gangs (and) drug use fostering continued unemployment and poverty.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479044/

Post: #75

Thugticianwisdom
Check his posts on youtube. He's a well spoken and eloquent fellow who sheds some light on this topic as well. Just listened to his video on "the so called strong black woman is a phony".

This cat makes some good points and is logical!

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/WkbWGDz6FtY


Sent from my iPad