Post: #1

I'm not deep into it by any means but have been a lot more curious about it lately. It's something I've experimented with doing in the morning after I wake up. I toyed with when younger doing martial arts.

I'm finding myself really interested in Vipassana Meditation lately. I recently watched Dhamma Brothers, really good documentary about the results of a 10-day meditation "retreat" they held for hardened criminals in Alabama. It seemed to work with these guys like nothing else had, and then the Christians in the community raised a stink and got the program cancelled. Now they're finally getting it back again.

I've read it's springing up other prisons around the nation as well.

Last night I went and attended a Zen Buddhist Group and then a Vipassana Mediation meeting to see what each had to offer. The Buddhist meeting didn't even have a teacher - we just meditated - and with the other group, while I did learn a few things, the people seemed flaky and out-of-touch. I also was struck with a real irony that, while meditation is mean to be a solitary endeavour, these people meet on a regular basis to meditate together...Why not just meditate alone at home?

It seemed a bit pointless, but I sense that Vipassana is supposed to be a lot more effective with some kind of guidance on what you should be doing with your mind. The teacher didn't seem that great. Everything that came out of her mouth was backtracked on or repeated in five different ways to make sure a) no one got somehow offended or b) she counter-acted every possible way to misunderstand what she said.

I appreciate a lot of these spiritual practices and recognize the benefits of meditation, but sometimes I find it difficult to relate to people who are so PC and don't seem very grounded on Earth.

Buddhist practices are really interesting to me as well. But again, I take issue with some real ironies within the religious side of it.

I've been watching some documentaries about Buddha lately, and he was essentially supposed to be a regular guy (albeit royalty by birth) who emphasized that he was not a deity and his entire path to enlightment was about realizing everything was impermanent and to let go of material possessions.

Yet Buddhism, at least as it exists in Southeast Asia, is fanatical in holding on to "material" objects representing the Buddha. They worship his statues and cling to him - seems to fly in the face of impermanence. The erect huge, luxurious structures. The city of Bagan in Bhurma built so many of these temples that they obliterated the land around them for the materials and everyone had to leave the city because it became unlivable.

And while reaching nirvana, or enlightenment, supposedly means you escape the cycle of reincarnation, they act as if the statues of their enlightened idols still have their spirits inside them. They pull them out to get sunshine. They bring them food and water.

Finally, Buddha reached enlightenment by sitting under a tree and meditating alone. Yet all his followers meditate together.

I guess just as with any other religion people make a mistake of getting caught up in the customs and losing sight of the goal.

Anyways, I'm rambling now. Was just initially curious if anyone here is big on meditation. I know some of you dabble, but how far have you gone with it?

And has anyone done a meditation retreat? I've been looking at doing one in Thailand for quite some time (not a tourist-centric one) where you live like the monks while you're there and meditate for days on end, with no speaking, eating after lunch, etc. There are also 10-day Vipassana retreats here in the states where they let you participate for free (donations recommended).

Thoughts? Experiences?

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #2

I was deep into it into my early 20s. It was the type of thing that if I didn't meditate daily, I was "off". It became a drug of sorts.

Nowadays I do it every once in a while just to get to "that place", but I sort of feel like part of me is always "there" anyway. In Zen Buddhism, there are teachings that use a tight-rope as an example; half your weight is in the "void", half your weight is in the "world".

I've done meditation on opening chakras, on breathing, on spiritual escape.

Too much can be written on it, and in fact it's very hard to talk about it in tangible terms while maintaining an "accurate" viewpoint. I can sit here and tell you you can go "too far" with this shit, but what's too far? I've got friends that took it really far and they're somewhere else on another plane of existence. I dabbled in that and it wasn't for me. You can explain that with karma or whatever but I just wasn't being true to myself. There are many quotes in eastern religion that pertain to this, about metaphors relating to a snake shedding its skin and whatnot; it can't be forced.

The belief is that you will adopt whatever you are ready for and everyone will find their way when they're ready to. Some people will sit full lotus and avert their gaze downward at a 45 degree angle and try to raise their kundalini and nothing will happen. Everyone is predetermined to a certain distance of meditation they can acheive. When you're ready to go further you'll know.

How far have I gotten? Complete body detachment, the feeling that "I" was no longer, that the separation of my body and the environment around me evaporated, that I was indistinguishable from the rock in front of me, that I was just a fixed point of consciousness and nothing more, that my vision ceased and all I saw in front of me was a big black void with sparkling star-like objects in front of me.

This was when I was in the thick of it.

Post: #3

I played around with it alot a few years ago. I was trying to find something that would help me get more centered, less stressed, etc. I looked into a few different types extensively - Vipassana, Zen, Transcendental, etc.

It certainly does something in your brain, and I think it might be beneficial, sometimes, for some people. But it's not clear-cut and I became increasingly skeptical as I failed to find anyone who really seemed to walk the talk.

Personally, I'd get benefits - clear head, upbeatness, centeredness - but also weirdly mentally angsty after a session, and I just felt like other things gave me the benefits without the downside - exercise and socialising for upbeatness, taking naps for stress reduction and recharging, etc.

I've yet to meet someone who both A) says it really helped them and B) lives the sort of life I value or can at least appreciate as a reasonably emotionally healthy one.

People who pimp it seem to either be off-the-deep-end spiritual types or they seem to be seekers, having pinned their hopes on it and bought the dogma without having yet walked the talk.

I'm not discounting it - I've just yet to see anyone who can honestly say "before I was X, now I'm much more Y" who also seems like a fairly sorted out person with their life on track.

Contrast that with some of the better therapies out there, for example, and the difference is marked.

I've since come to the conclusion that the models that various meditation methods are based on are quite flawed. Mindfulness is a component of being mentally healthy but it's just one dimension, and it's not a one-size-fits-all solution to all emotional problems. Many meditation practices are is subtly biased against negative emotions (especially strong ones like anger). "If it's intense, just step back and watch it until it passes". It's a kind of suppression - forcing yourself into the "observer" state. Not healthy IMO.

Something like IFS gets things alot more right I think. It's both a conceptual model of the psyche, and a therapy. The idea of personality parts, blending and polarization just seems so much more on-point than the Buddhist, Mindfulness or Zen models to me, although it does draw from them.

Post: #4

I try to do it everyday.

Post: #5

(12-27-2012 07:50 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I try to do it everyday.

Right on, G. What type of meditation do you do, for how long, what have your results been, and why do personally believe it's worthy of spending your time on everyday?

(12-27-2012 07:38 PM)RichieP Wrote:  I played around with it alot a few years ago. I was trying to find something that would help me get more centered, less stressed, etc. I looked into a few different types extensively - Vipassana, Zen, Transcendental, etc.

It certainly does something in your brain, and I think it might be beneficial, sometimes, for some people. But it's not clear-cut and I became increasingly skeptical as I failed to find anyone who really seemed to walk the talk.

Personally, I'd get benefits - clear head, upbeatness, centeredness - but also weirdly mentally angsty after a session, and I just felt like other things gave me the benefits without the downside - exercise and socialising for upbeatness, taking naps for stress reduction and recharging, etc.

I've yet to meet someone who both A) says it really helped them and B) lives the sort of life I value or can at least appreciate as a reasonably emotionally healthy one.

People who pimp it seem to either be off-the-deep-end spiritual types or they seem to be seekers, having pinned their hopes on it and bought the dogma without having yet walked the talk.

I'm not discounting it - I've just yet to see anyone who can honestly say "before I was X, now I'm much more Y" who also seems like a fairly sorted out person with their life on track.

Contrast that with some of the better therapies out there, for example, and the difference is marked.

I've since come to the conclusion that the models that various meditation methods are based on are quite flawed. Mindfulness is a component of being mentally healthy but it's just one dimension, and it's not a one-size-fits-all solution to all emotional problems. Many meditation practices are is subtly biased against negative emotions (especially strong ones like anger). "If it's intense, just step back and watch it until it passes". It's a kind of suppression - forcing yourself into the "observer" state. Not healthy IMO.

Something like IFS gets things alot more right I think. It's both a conceptual model of the psyche, and a therapy. The idea of personality parts, blending and polarization just seems so much more on-point than the Buddhist, Mindfulness or Zen models to me, although it does draw from them.

Some interesting points. Thanks.

Do you mind on elaborating here:

Quote:Contrast that with some of the better therapies out there, for example, and the difference is marked.

Which therapies do you mean (if any besides IFS) and why do you feel the difference in results (as I too it) is so marked?

Quote:Something like IFS gets things alot more right I think. It's both a conceptual model of the psyche, and a therapy. The idea of personality parts, blending and polarization just seems so much more on-point than the Buddhist, Mindfulness or Zen models to me, although it does draw from them.

Do you have any actual experience with the therapy? With other people who practice it?

Also, have you watched the Dhamma Brothers movie? These guys seemed to have some real results with meditation that they were obviously not getting through exercise and socialization?

Considering that, do you think it works better for people who have some real emotional and mental issues that need to be worked through as opposed to just anyone in general?

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

I have done several hundred hours of cumulative meditation time as well as the dhamma.org 10 day retreat. You guys are right the type of people who are into it are usually of the spiritual junkie variety. There were quite a few weirdos and also the skinniest guy I have ever seen in my life who was about 6'5" and had the muscle mass of a 14 year old girl. Turns out the guy was a vegan yoga instructor. He looked like he has been recently liberated from a concentration camp.

Most people who show up at these things are missing something and are seeking it through meditation. Some people improve themselves, but alot of them seem to be pretty much the same even after lots of practice. I have met some truely cool people who are the most fun to be around ever. The process purges you of insecurities and all that nonsense that was conditioned into you as you grew up. You accept things as they are and do not feel an emotional pull towards certain outcomes, although you can choose to work towards things.

You develop an appreciation for people and what they can bring to the table and also develop understanding of their situation and a deep seated compassion and empathy for people. This does not mean you have to act beta or overly nice to people. With this wisdom comes the understanding that people need and want strong men to be around them. You have the capability for acting towards people with a combination of understanding of their situation and the playful teasing and other ways of interacting that we know to be effective. The result is the most attractive vibe imaginable. Girls can sense if you are a man that they can fall in love with by picking up on subtle cues that you give off. They know instinctively if you have insecurities or alterior motives. There is absolutely no way to fake this, but it is the key to having charisma and will pull people towards you. There is an entire subsection of this forum where people ask what to say/do in certain situations. The meditation will renovate your mind so that you will know what to do.

Keep in mind when attempting to start meditating that the "sila", ie moral conduct, are very important. Basically you will not be able to do it effectively if your brain has been wired to addicting substances/activities. The extremely high rate of orgasm in the population and the ubiquitous nature of porn will prevent you from making as much progress as you can with this technique.

Post: #7

(12-27-2012 10:38 PM)n0000 Wrote:  I have done several hundred hours of cumulative meditation time as well as the dhamma.org 10 day retreat. You guys are right the type of people who are into it are usually of the spiritual junkie variety. There were quite a few weirdos and also the skinniest guy I have ever seen in my life who was about 6'5" and had the muscle mass of a 14 year old girl. Turns out the guy was a vegan yoga instructor. He looked like he has been recently liberated from a concentration camp.

Most people who show up at these things are missing something and are seeking it through meditation. Some people improve themselves, but alot of them seem to be pretty much the same even after lots of practice. I have met some truely cool people who are the most fun to be around ever. The process purges you of insecurities and all that nonsense that was conditioned into you as you grew up. You accept things as they are and do not feel an emotional pull towards certain outcomes, although you can choose to work towards things.

You develop an appreciation for people and what they can bring to the table and also develop understanding of their situation and a deep seated compassion and empathy for people. This does not mean you have to act beta or overly nice to people. With this wisdom comes the understanding that people need and want strong men to be around them. You have the capability for acting towards people with a combination of understanding of their situation and the playful teasing and other ways of interacting that we know to be effective. The result is the most attractive vibe imaginable. Girls can sense if you are a man that they can fall in love with by picking up on subtle cues that you give off. They know instinctively if you have insecurities or alterior motives. There is absolutely no way to fake this, but it is the key to having charisma and will pull people towards you. There is an entire subsection of this forum where people ask what to say/do in certain situations. The meditation will renovate your mind so that you will know what to do.

Keep in mind when attempting to start meditating that the "sila", ie moral conduct, are very important. Basically you will not be able to do it effectively if your brain has been wired to addicting substances/activities. The extremely high rate of orgasm in the population and the ubiquitous nature of porn will prevent you from making as much progress as you can with this technique.

Awesome feedback.

You guys are all breaking out some good stuff. I was hoping (and assumed) there were some of you on here with this type of experience.

Basically, it sounds like you all agree that the benefits are there but it's important to stay somewhat "grounded" and not expect it to be the answer to everything.

This also echoes what Buddha talked about with the "middle road" being the best path. In essence, spirituality only helps if you can apply it to the real world and interaction with other humans.

I feel what you're saying about this community here not being the best thing to expose yourself to when getting into meditation and spirituality. As much as I enjoy my interaction here, I've been thinking about breaking away for a time anyhow because I don't think it's actually getting me to where I want to be in my life right now but is actually, at least for the moment, holding me back a bit.

In fact, I don't think it's just this forum at all but the Internet in general. And let's face it, that probably has more to do with my role in it and its role in my life than anything else.

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. Looking forward to seeing more.

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #8

Almost all of the literature is garbage. I recommend James Austin, "Zen and the Brain." Leads into evo psych issues.
"Vipassana" is a commercial construct. Hate to admit it, but Zizek is mostly right about Western Buddhism.
I once tried to find a guru in NY, but since I have an advanced degree in Sanskrit I couldn't keep a straight face when they butchered basic concepts.

Post: #9

(12-27-2012 11:02 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Almost all of the literature is garbage. I recommend James Austin, "Zen and the Brain." Leads into evo psych issues.
"Vipassana" is a commercial construct. Hate to admit it, but Zizek is mostly right about Western Buddhism.
I once tried to find a guru in NY, but since I have an advanced degree in Sanskrit I couldn't keep a straight face when they butchered basic concepts.

Thanks for the opinion but have you watched the abovementioned documentary where it seemed to be more than just a commercial construct, based on the results they got? There are also a lot of studies that show real results.

And while you say Vipassana is only a commercial construct, didn't it originate in Asia? Was it made for commercial reasons there too?

I certainly don't mind hearing some opinions here but some reasons and/or evidence would certainly give such a strong opinion more weight.

I've also noticed that people in the East often butcher these religious practices as well - or at least live a very hypocritical state of existence when you look at the doctrines they profess to believe in and follow.

It seems to be more a modern-day issue than a Western-centric one.

As an example, I was reading an article the other day about how a lot of Japanese Buddhists (the experts anyways) even say Westerners are better off studying in the West than traveling to Japan to get some type of extra-spiritual experience. My own opinion, admittedly from the outside looking in, questions whether we don't take Western practitioners to a higher standard than we do Eastern ones.

My thinking is that in the West we may teach a changed version that more suits our culture, but if it still gets the same results (certainly up for debate), is it any less "real?"

In the West, we often are very critical of people from our own culture. It's kind of like our sense when we travel that we don't want other Westerns there - which is, funny enough, largely a Western tendency. In the same way, we want our non-Western practices to exclude other Westerners as well.

You certainly have far more exposure than I, so I'd love to hear more, but a little more explanation would be great.

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #10

(12-27-2012 08:08 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-27-2012 07:50 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I try to do it everyday.

Right on, G. What type of meditation do you do, for how long, what have your results been, and why do personally believe it's worthy of spending your time on everyday?

G, can you break it down for us?

How did you start? how long did you do it for when you started?
and how long do you do it for now?

what kind of meditation do you do? do you do the internal chanting or is it breath based?

do you do it at the start of the day or at the end of a day?

Post: #11

I'm using it to clear my head from time to time.

Post: #12

I notice that simply isolating myself away from all people and distractions, especially in nature, for at least 30 minutes has a very positive "centering" effect on the rest of my day or night. I would like to experiment with spending whole days by myself in nature. Even if I'm not sitting down in the lotus position with eyes closed, I find just being alone with my thoughts for extended periods of time is a trip when normally I'm jacked into a continuous stream of external stimuli and distractions.

I also notice there's a lot of initial internal resistance to being isolated like this -- all the sudden I'm an unstoppable idea generation power house of meaningless shit I could do instead. I think that speaks to a certain level of addiction to entertainment, information, and communication stimuli. When I find myself sitting at my computer with no specific task in mind and I just start mindlessly cycling through email, RSS, twitter, forum updates... it's time to shut everything down for a while.

Post: #13

I have meditated for almost a month daily now. Still having lots of trouble concentrating and achieving the meditative state, sometimes I just notice that my mind has been wandering for a few minutes.

Post: #14

I have meditated, but do not really believe in it. I try to live my life as a meditation - in a sense. I do think that those who have not done a 10 day vipassna silent meditation retreat are missing out, as it is really quite an experience!

Post: #15

Beyond Borders - Check PMs

Post: #16

I've done this retreat in Thailand a couple of times
http://www.suanmokkh-idh.org/

It's a very high quality place, 10 days retreat in the jungle.

Post: #17

It's something I've wanted to do for a while.

I'm often guilty of not dealing with stress well enough and dwelling on certain things. I think meditation could help, as a form of relaxation.

Does anybody have some good resources to start?

Post: #18

I was in a small hotel once, there was a "buddists bible" on the desk, I read a few pages, it was interesting. I saw it basically as thought control for maintaining happiness. Interesting concepts, techniques, and philosophy.

When I got home I looked into it more. I came across meditation. I read about it. I tried it.

I heard that one of my favorite comedians, Andy Kaufmann did "transcendental meditation" before shows. That's when I got serious about it. I wanted to experience it. I read more and I tried harder.

I wasn't very good at it.

I focused on my breath and I "became the observer" of my thoughts, feelings, etc. I got better. I gained perspective by not living in my own head too much.

One day I realized that there was a better way for me clear my head. Do what I have been doing since I was a kid..

Play!

I play basketball or soccer or tennis or swim almost everyday. This is meditation for me.

Even better if I do it in nature. I try to play in the most scenic areas, on the most beautiful courts and fields. I go to the wealthiest neighborhoods to play at those parks. I know a soccer field with views of the whole Bay Area and a basketball court surrounded by tall eucalyptus tress.

I still have to focus on my breathe to get started but now I include my whole body, its an active meditation.

I also do "scream therapy":





I try to meditate when I'm cooking and eating, during sex (sometimes), and during exercise. Boxing/mma fighting is great meditation.

To me life is one big meditative experience. Some will say that I don't have a deep understanding of the practice. I say if it brings me relaxation, peace of mind, a clear head, focus, and energy -- then who can say I am not mediating?

I have developed a strategy that works for me. But, I know there are many deeper layers.

Post: #19

(12-28-2012 03:11 AM)bonkers Wrote:  

(12-27-2012 08:08 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-27-2012 07:50 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I try to do it everyday.

Right on, G. What type of meditation do you do, for how long, what have your results been, and why do personally believe it's worthy of spending your time on everyday?

G, can you break it down for us?

How did you start? how long did you do it for when you started?
and how long do you do it for now?

My Kung-fu instructor taught me.

Not too long, it is hard for me to clear my thoughts as my mind goes 100 miles a minute.

But I try.

Quote:what kind of meditation do you do? do you do the internal chanting or is it breath based?

Breath. I work on my "Chi".

Quote:do you do it at the start of the day or at the end of a day?

I do it in my morning shower.

Or the rare times I work on Kung-fu forms.

Post: #20

(12-28-2012 06:18 AM)reino341 Wrote:  I have meditated for almost a month daily now. Still having lots of trouble concentrating and achieving the meditative state, sometimes I just notice that my mind has been wandering for a few minutes.

Have you picked up any books or attended any classes to get pointers?

A couple things I've noticed about wandering minds:

1) Don't beat yourself up about it. If you find your mind wandering, just acknowledge it and clear your thoughts again to get back on track. When it wanders again, just bring it back. It's like teaching a dog to heel, to pull a metaphor out of my ass. lol It will continually keep trying to wander off but you just gently and patiently guide it back.

Getting mad or frustrated with your own wandering mind is like getting mad at your own nature, and self-defeating.

2) Experiment with observing your mind rather than on completely clearing it. Don't run with your thoughts, but don't force them out either. "Accept" everything as it is without actively playing a role in it, if that makes sense.

I find when I do this I tend to find less thoughts popping up. When I actively try to push all thoughts out of my mind, on the other hand, it sometimes goes on hyperdrive.

Maybe I'm preaching to the choir - I'm no expert. Just a couple tips.

(12-28-2012 07:38 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  I have meditated, but do not really believe in it. I try to live my life as a meditation - in a sense. I do think that those who have not done a 10 day vipassna silent meditation retreat are missing out, as it is really quite an experience!

Your statements are extremely confusing. You don't believe in meditation, but you try to live your life as a meditation and assert that anyone who hasn't done a vipassana retreat is missing out?

Can you explain and elaborate?

(12-28-2012 11:29 AM)n0000 Wrote:  Beyond Borders - Check PMs

Hey Man - I got your pm. No internet last night. I'll get back to you on this in a bit.

(12-28-2012 11:48 AM)dirtypurist Wrote:  I've done this retreat in Thailand a couple of times
http://www.suanmokkh-idh.org/

It's a very high quality place, 10 days retreat in the jungle.

Thanks for this - mind elaborating on your experience there and the benefits you got from it? How do you think that particular place measures up to others?

(12-28-2012 04:40 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I was in a small hotel once, there was a "buddists bible" on the desk, I read a few pages, it was interesting. I saw it basically as thought control for maintaining happiness. Interesting concepts, techniques, and philosophy.

When I got home I looked into it more. I came across meditation. I read about it. I tried it.

I heard that one of my favorite comedians, Andy Kaufmann did "transcendental meditation" before shows. That's when I got serious about it. I wanted to experience it. I read more and I tried harder.

I wasn't very good at it.

I focused on my breath and I "became the observer" of my thoughts, feelings, etc. I got better. I gained perspective by not living in my own head too much.

One day I realized that there was a better way for me clear my head. Do what I have been doing since I was a kid..

Play!

I play basketball or soccer or tennis or swim almost everyday. This is meditation for me.

Even better if I do it in nature. I try to play in the most scenic areas, on the most beautiful courts and fields. I go to the wealthiest neighborhoods to play at those parks. I know a soccer field with views of the whole Bay Area and a basketball court surrounded by tall eucalyptus tress.

I still have to focus on my breathe to get started but now I include my whole body, its an active meditation.

I also do "scream therapy":





I try to meditate when I'm cooking and eating, during sex (sometimes), and during exercise. Boxing/mma fighting is great meditation.

To me life is one big meditative experience. Some will say that I don't have a deep understanding of the practice. I say if it brings me relaxation, peace of mind, a clear head, focus, and energy -- then who can say I am not mediating?

I have developed a strategy that works for me. But, I know there are many deeper layers.

Having never met you, I've assumed you to be a very kinesthetic, high-energy person based on how I read your posts. So I can see why this approach would work well for you, and it's a great approach to life.

That said, I think for kinetsthetic, high-energy people, at least some regular sitting meditation would be a very good exercise in patience.

Do you think that applies with you at all?

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #21

I meditate practically everyday. I think there is a lot of misconception and information overload about mediation. You have to sit this way, cross your legs that way, chant Om, don't chant Om, keep your thoughts flowing etc etc etc...I have been "meditating" for almost 10 years now and I can tell you that it all boils down to what you consider mediation is. For me, it's simply to shut of my daily life and quietly sit or laying down for about 20-30 minutes ( I started with 4 minutes)...When you are sitting there and simply observing or focusing on your breath, after awhile that is ALL you are doing. Being in the present moment in the literal sense. I don't have any new age music, I don't have any monk chants in the background, just an app on the phone that goes off after the 20 minutes is up! I personally think Vipasana is a great start for mediation. but whatever form you choose always remember the basic premise is the same, to unplug and recharge. Now of course if you are looking for some type of spiritual enlightenment to find the meaning of life ,divulge in the teachings of Buddha and the esoteric meaning of life and karma. But IMHO, when you are just starting out keeping it very simple will take you a long long way. For me, when I am done sitting for 20 minutes, I feel extremely calm, my game is clear and my focus is on the point.. of course I am not looking for any spiritual enlightenment but just to calm my soul. As far as retreat, I think it’s a great opportunity for beginners, not sure where you are but if you are in North America, why don’t you try something close to home. Local Zen groups always have short retreats, I have been to a Thich Naht Hhanh walking mediation and it was priceless. Give it a try if you want. I think retreats are a great way to practice silence and meet people when you are just starting out. Once you are more comfortable you can practice it by yourself. You can find a lot of these groups on meetup. Good luck to you.

Post: #22

(12-28-2012 08:44 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  [quote='dirtypurist' pid='335811' dateline='1356713321']
I've done this retreat in Thailand a couple of times
http://www.suanmokkh-idh.org/

It's a very high quality place, 10 days retreat in the jungle.

It is a retreat that starts on the last day of ever month, so there is a group energy thing going - everyone starts and finishes on the same day. In other monasteries in Thailand you follow your own individual schedule. The group makes it easier for a beginner.
They also teach you to live a very simple life - shower from a bucket you fill in a water well, washing your own clothes, living in a small cell with only a concrete slab for a bed (with a small bamboo mat) and a mosquito net, simple rice meals (breakfast and lunch only).
Meditation is alternated between sitting and walking, which makes it easier on the knees and the back, compared to sitting meditation only.

The benefit is clearer mind, like from every meditation retreat, I guess.

Post: #23

The thing that put me off about meditation the times I've tried is that is has to be done on the floor or on a chair. Can't it as well be done in the gym while squatting, in the shower or even on the dance floor? So far I've always found it too boring to be honest. But maybe it's my porn habit/addiction which has blocked any potential benefits (Im really beginning to realize this is an addiction).

Anyway, sometimes I find myself staring at a point somewhere in the middle of the day, with my mind drifting far away. I've been thinking maybe this is unconscious meditation? Anyone else experiences this sometimes?

Post: #24

I was into meditation as a teenager, and then quite heavily into it in my early twenties. Did several retreats in meditation centers and on my own in forests, sometimes for months at a time. It was quite transformative at times, even to the point of re-arranging the entire concept of who is the perceiver.

Then I knocked some older woman up, got married, started focusing on my businesses, and struggled to maintain a discipline. Then several series of other life changes happened, and I'd move in and out of meditating. Had a period early this year where I was meditating regularly, and lately have again drifted out of the habit.

Meditating brings many advantages, and I'd be wise to get off my ass and sit on my ass more often. But the thing is, I'm usually happy now. There isn't a whole lot of impetus to do it. I guess I must have had more emotional discomfort and trouble being in my mind when younger. There sure was a lot of desire to change my mental space. But wow - sometimes it really did change rather dramatically. There was one period where I had nearly 24 hour awareness, lucid dreams and lucid deep dreamless sleep, and when awake perceptions were more decentralized, as if the vividness of vision did not require me to perceive it, but arose already perceived. And I developed a strong and powerful feeling of affection, and a feeling of intimate connection with people. Lots of good stuff.

I do believe that there is an associated charisma that can come from meditative practices. Some practices can also lead to a dramatically transformed sexual experience. If you hang with any meditation community you'll hear tales of some random dude meeting some random teacher in an airplane, and being deeply impressed and changing his whole life on the spot. We talk a lot about being aloof, but there is another type of charisma that depends on the opposite - that depends on a paternal love and an openness to experience that can instantly captivate people.

Post: #25

(12-28-2012 08:44 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Having never met you, I've assumed you to be a very kinesthetic, high-energy person based on how I read your posts. So I can see why this approach would work well for you, and it's a great approach to life.

That said, I think for kinetsthetic, high-energy people, at least some regular sitting meditation would be a very good exercise in patience.

Do you think that applies with you at all?

Yes, I think this is accurate. I am very kinesthetic. I prefer active meditation over sitting meditation.

However, I can do sitting meditations when I am on top of a high mountain. Something about the view. This is good for my patience.