Post: #51

(12-17-2012 02:36 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(12-16-2012 07:01 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(12-16-2012 03:51 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  Lot of scaremongering in this thread.

Just follow the common sense rules and you'll be fine.

- Don't look dumb or lost. Always walk as if you're on your way to something even if you're not. Need to look on a map? Go inside a store or a corner and do it there. Not out in the open in unsafe areas.

- Don't show of your bling bling in countries where they can't afford it.

- Don't get stupidly drunk, people getting robbed/attacked are often in this category. You're just asking for it.

- Do not speak English around guys you don't trust in the street. This goes for cops also. Presumably when you can fit in to the population like being white in Russia, being black in Africa etc etc. Learn the local language a bit and just say yes or no with the local accent if they say something and keep walking.

- don't be a dumb trouble maker, swallow your pride sometimes. Show no fear and walk away from the danger. I was once grabbed by the throat by a 5 foot guy in a Cumbia bar in Uruguay. Yes, I've could have probably beat his ass all over the place but probably not his group standing by in the crowd waiting to jump me in a second. I just stared at the guy,showing no fear but no threat either and he let go and I walked away. Better then getting my ass beaten in a place full of low class people who don't give a damn about if you lie there in a puddle of blood.
Not many guys are willing to fight a tall foreigner who doesn't look scared without back up from their friends.

- Don't be naive and think everyone will like you. This will never happen.

- Don't be scared or suspicious of everyone either. In poor countries most people will still be nice to you without wanting something from you. Get out of the western hemisphere mindset.

I've walked around in a lot of shitty neighborhoods all around the world, often in the middle of the night and barely had any trouble. Follow these rules and you don't need to make friends with bouncers or slip them some cash or take taxis with drivers everywhere.

All good advice Neil, and I have traveled just as much as you, gone to shitty neighborhoods and never had a real problem either. So I dont want to scare anyone from going anywhere. But my sixth sense tells me something about Russia, is a bit off or different.

I could be wrong...... so when I go there I wlll describe it as I see it. In the end, I can´t really judge, until I have my boots on the ground.

Your traveling experience will be different than mine, because you are a white Dutchman and I am a latin guy. Many Europeans and Americans travel alone, so people are used to it. It is not the same for a South American man.

I do believe, like you have said that there are many scaremongers out there. Colombia is a perfect example. So, if I came across even a bit like that, just follow Neil´s advice and 98 percent of the time you will be just fine.

Only thing about Russia is that there is still too little information, especially when it comes to 2nd and 3rd tier cities.

Well, not to get all technical but I have been to over 50 countries and you to 25 and all but two were out of my own language zone where as you could speak Spanish in most Latin countries you went.

If you didn't get in trouble while traveling before then I doubt you'll be in trouble in Russia.

Russian people are nice people, generally interested in you. Avoid the occasional thug and you'll be fine even if you're a light skinned latino. No pun intented.

No offense taken Neil lol. Most of this advice is intended for the newbie traveler. I know most of the things necessary now, to not make mysef a victim.

I remember being a newbie traveler with an Argentinian friend, crashing a party and trying to hit on the girls in Copenhagen. We almost got our heads busted by 5 or 6 dudes. So got it keep it low key and avoid trouble.

Though with all that being said, it is still advisable for the newbie traveler to travel with somebody or find a group in certain countries. Have seen enough mugged gringos in Ecuador and Brazil.

And not to keep it technical as you say Neil, but I have travelled all my life, including many countries where I didnt know the language. Also, learned french and portugues apart from being born with english and spanish. It has only been the last 6 years when I have concentrated on South America, since I am living here now and unfortunately also have business to attend to.



Though with all that being said, it is still advisable for the newbie traveler to travel with somebody or find a group in certain countries. Have seen enough mugged gringos in Ecuador and Brazil.

Post: #52

ROFL, actually leave the cowboy boots home. I joked to my friend who was attacked 3 times that it must be his cowboy boots enraging everyone.
Seriously, hes is built and 6'4" and in Odessa he had 3 incidents in the 3 years he lived there.One time he was partly responsible because he tried to break up a fight. I joked and said it must be those damn boots he was wearing.
Just for fun, list of incidents:
1. was walking home. Passed a pool hall where 2 locals were fighting. He tries to break it up. Next thing he knows they go inside and get there buddies.He ends up karate kicking a few and runs.They were drunk. It was his fault for intervening.

2. In a top club he walks to his table and a local dude moves back at the same time in his chair so he lightly brushes the guys back. He apologizes .The guy gets angry and is yelling at him "why you do not speak Russian". He explains he is a foreigner and offers to buy the guy a drink. Next thing he knows the guy throws something at him and comes towards him to fight.My friend blocks him ,but the local guy has a friend who punches my friend in the eye. Bouncers break it up and kick my friend out and our common Dutch guy friend who did not help. Not his fault this time..

3. As he is walking out of a club alone 2 guys bump shoulders with him. In Ukraine people often bang into each other ,no problem. He says" excuse me", the 2 of them keep following him laughing and getting closer. He stops and starts kicking out to them with his cowboy boots and they walk away after he almost gets one in the face. Not his fault again.

I know no one as unlucky as him. He seems to attack trouble. I thought it must be due to him being so tall that they want to challenge him.OR those damn cowboy boots lol

Post: #53

(12-13-2012 12:33 AM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  



I think this sums Russia up best. I thought there was a video of a drunk russian guy chasing a bear with a bat ? Or was that some other country ? Either way I can't seem to find it anymore.

just goes to show you that Russian women are so damn hot that even the polar bears want them !!!

Post: #54

Russia is no Ukraine.Russia can be dangerous as hell people there change in one second like chameleons.Ukrainians are rather slow and lack the bully aggressive attitude of Russians.

Post: #55

(12-17-2012 06:20 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Russia is no Ukraine.Russia can be dangerous as hell people there change in one second like chameleons.Ukrainians are rather slow and lack the bully aggressive attitude of Russians.

If it is an eastern industrial city ,like Donetsk, I do not think they feel they are less aggressive than Russians. Coincidentally the nicest people I have found were in Crimea. .

Post: #56

(12-17-2012 06:20 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Russia is no Ukraine.Russia can be dangerous as hell people there change in one second like chameleons.Ukrainians are rather slow and lack the bully aggressive attitude of Russians.

IMO Kamaki´s picture of Russia is better than Neil´s with all due respect. If 4 or 5 us go to Siberia, it wont be to take pictures, see polar bears, sleep in hostels, ride the train.....but to slay the local pussy.

And what does that entail...some sort of conflict for sure. Neil traveled as a backpacker, who admittedly didnt have game, didnt speak Russian and just wanted adventure. I respect him for the hot girls he got there.

Like Kamaki we will going for the local pussy. So we have to expect what he has experienced.

Post: #57

(12-17-2012 07:02 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 06:20 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Russia is no Ukraine.Russia can be dangerous as hell people there change in one second like chameleons.Ukrainians are rather slow and lack the bully aggressive attitude of Russians.

If it is an eastern industrial city ,like Donetsk, I do not think they feel they are less aggressive than Russians. Coincidentally the nicest people I have found were in Crimea. .

Cities like Krasnodar,Rostov na Don although close to Donetsk carry no relation to the latter.Russians are really fearless and get into your nose.
They often resort to bullying towards Russians and non Russians and have winner mentality.Many of them circulate drunk disregarding everyone around them.
Russia is tough Ukraine is much softer and europeanized.

For example often Russian hooligans give appointments to the opposite team hooligans in order to beat each other.They arrange these appointments to beat even in foreign countries.(for example they had come to Athens for this reason just to beat each other).

Post: #58

(12-18-2012 07:14 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  For example often Russian hooligans give appointments to the opposite team hooligans in order to beat each other.They arrange these appointments to beat even in foreign countries.(for example they had come to Athens for this reason just to beat each other).

That happens in many EE countries not just Russia and hence I can't see the correlation between Russian hools and general safety on the street for the tourist. The Poles are famed for having a hard core hooligan element that travel for brawls yet people are not saying Poland is inherently dangerous or Poles are dangerous. Serbian clubs do it too when they travel,I don't doubt some German and Italian clubs do too yet nobody is saying avoid Italy. Football hools are not a representative of how dangerous a country is otherwise nobody would ever visit Brazil.

Also although you say Ukraine is softer then Russia I have to say that the only reports of ( western ) foreigners getting attacked that I have heard of have come out of the Ukraine. A friend of a friend was bashed up in Kiev,there was a big thing made of the two foreigners bashed up in Donetsk and Jimkur has plenty of anecdotal evidence of trouble in the Ukraine.

Google 'attacks on tourists in Russia' and then come back and post some links of reports. You won't find much except loads of stories of Russian tourists being attacked in Pattaya or Egypt. Despite the desire to believe in Russia and Russians being some kind of Slavic power individuals,the FACT is that more Russian tourists are attacked whilst on holiday each year then foreign tourists attacked in Russia. Whether people want to believe in those facts or not is up to them.

Post: #59

(12-18-2012 07:14 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 07:02 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 06:20 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Russia is no Ukraine.Russia can be dangerous as hell people there change in one second like chameleons.Ukrainians are rather slow and lack the bully aggressive attitude of Russians.

If it is an eastern industrial city ,like Donetsk, I do not think they feel they are less aggressive than Russians. Coincidentally the nicest people I have found were in Crimea. .

Cities like Krasnodar,Rostov na Don although close to Donetsk carry no relation to the latter.Russians are really fearless and get into your nose.
They often resort to bullying towards Russians and non Russians and have winner mentality.Many of them circulate drunk disregarding everyone around them.
Russia is tough Ukraine is much softer and europeanized.

For example often Russian hooligans give appointments to the opposite team hooligans in order to beat each other.They arrange these appointments to beat even in foreign countries.(for example they had come to Athens for this reason just to beat each other).

Those fights are not exclusive to Russia, they pretty much happen in all EE countries every week when there is football, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Ukraine, CZ etc.





fights are known as ustawka

Post: #60

These battles do not happen spontaneously.The groups arrange a conflict and whether there are going to be usef knives etc.It happened in Greece only once but after a fan of Panathinaikos was stabbed and killed they stopped.
Anyway Russia is not a light country like Ukraine.The vibe is different.In Ukraine you can buy everyone.Not so in Russia.They are more proud and do not succumb to foreigners.

Post: #61

christ people are dumb.

Post: #62

Greek you would be afraid of America. Gangs here get together to fight all the time. Often using firearms. Growing up I had to witness the neighborhood gangs fight everyweek.
I do not know if Ukraine softer. I only have newspapers to tell me about Russia. I only remember 3 incidents.
Ukraine had 2 murdered peace Corp volunteers. Recently in Donetsk oblast a drunk guy beat up 4 of them in a cafe when they laughed at his request for money.
My nephew in Odessa was bashed in the head from behind to rob his phone. Decade ago in village

Post: #63

Sorry. He was bashed from behind for his coat. So it's locals as well.
A few years ago a British national was kidnapped in presses for ransom. Made global papers.
I know 2 more guys who were beaten up. One almost died.

Post: #64

Russia is definitely more intense than the Ukraine. The people are more nationalistic, aggressive and inclined to employ stand over and bullying tactics.

Crucially, Russia has a massive Causasus minority compared to Ukraine's. In some 2nd tier Russian cities they compose a quarter of the population. They create an atmosphere of pervasive tension and intimidation, beat up women for 1 cigarette, go out to start fights with any non-muslims, and arrive in groups of over 50. The Ukraine does not have this issue.

In Russia there is little or no accountability to the militia, which quite terrifyingly a third of which is now comprised of muslims.

Post: #65

Also Russian police is nothing like Ukrainian police.Russians know how to intimidate you if they want you to shit in your pants they will do it.There is not much regard for the rights of the others.
Generally many Russians behave like bears and show absolutely no concern for the others suffering(eg the bus driver comes with delay to the bus station and locks the doors of the bus leaving the people waiting for the bus freezing outside because he wants to take a dump).

Post: #66

Post: #67

^ See thats what I mean. Can anyone elaborate on the frequency of those accidents?

Post: #68

(12-16-2012 12:27 PM)Partizan Wrote:  I know what it is like to be living in a provincial town in EE. i did it myself. I lived in one in Bulgaria (while on my Erasmus placement) which was controlled by the local mafia. Population 45k. The Mutri were blatantly evident all over the place. They controlled drugs, prostitution, niteclubs, hotels, protection rackets all over the gaff....everything. The mayor was on their payroll as well. They drove around in big black SUVs with serious looking dudes who were armed that you didnt mess with. There were frequent shootouts in the town centre. The place was as rough as a bear's arse. Locals were edgy and dodgy at the best of times. The slightest misunderstanding and you could have trouble on your hands.

Post: #69

(12-18-2012 11:16 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  In Russia there is little or no accountability to the militia, which quite terrifyingly a third of which is now comprised of muslims.

A third of all cops are Muslim in Russia? That seems like a surprisingly high number but I would hazard a guess that a large portion of those are,how to put it,'milder' Muslims as in ones from Bashkiria or Tartastan etc. I can't see the Moscow police department hiring many Dags or Chechens. Also the place where there are high % of Muslims in the force is most probably ( I'm guessing ) the North Caucus area too and hence I suppose if the population they are policing is predominantly Muslim then it makes sense to have them policed by fellow Muslims.

Out of interest,why do you find it terrifying that there is such a high percentage? Do you think that they would not be fair in their dealings with Muslims and non-Muslims? The Russian Muslims I have met on my travels have been the kind of citizens Russia needs more of: teetotal,hard working and patriotic.

(12-19-2012 04:22 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

Damn,Partizan must be a hard mofo if he is hitting on women in clubs populated by goons like that.

Post: #70

"It wasn’t just what American culture had done to her, it was what American culture had done to a Russian female. There are many American females who are not obese and gobby – they’ve grown up in the culture and have negotiated it.
For a Russian girl, the sudden excess, the sudden realization that she can crack the whip, had her going down that path.
Interesting that within a month of coming back [to Russia], she’d dropped that whole guff and was back to being good. Most interesting phenomenon that was. ... She’s a stunner. I’ll say this and I said it to her face – she was anything but attractive when she returned from America."

http://nourishingobscurity.com/2012/12/1...omb-drain/

Post: #71

(12-19-2012 07:52 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 11:16 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  In Russia there is little or no accountability to the militia, which quite terrifyingly a third of which is now comprised of muslims.

A third of all cops are Muslim in Russia? That seems like a surprisingly high number but I would hazard a guess that a large portion of those are,how to put it,'milder' Muslims as in ones from Bashkiria or Tartastan etc. I can't see the Moscow police department hiring many Dags or Chechens. Also the place where there are high % of Muslims in the force is most probably ( I'm guessing ) the North Caucus area too and hence I suppose if the population they are policing is predominantly Muslim then it makes sense to have them policed by fellow Muslims.

Out of interest,why do you find it terrifying that there is such a high percentage? Do you think that they would not be fair in their dealings with Muslims and non-Muslims? The Russian Muslims I have met on my travels have been the kind of citizens Russia needs more of: teetotal,hard working and patriotic.

(12-19-2012 04:22 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

Damn,Partizan must be a hard mofo if he is hitting on women in clubs populated by goons like that.

I would shit myself if I saw them lads heading right for me.

Post: #72

(12-19-2012 01:43 PM)Partizan Wrote:  

(12-19-2012 07:52 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 11:16 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  In Russia there is little or no accountability to the militia, which quite terrifyingly a third of which is now comprised of muslims.

(12-19-2012 04:22 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

Damn,Partizan must be a hard mofo if he is hitting on women in clubs populated by goons like that.

I would shit myself if I saw them lads heading right for me.

You guys watch too many movies. I would not be fazed if I saw a bunch of these guys in the street and I was walking near. These guys are not gonna draw attention to them by harassing a simple tourist for no reason (even though they might have the local police in their pocket)

This type of guy will:
[attachment=9167]

Young, drunk and no future.
Take this advice: Have cigarettes on you even if you don't smoke. These guys will ask you for them a lot. Buy a pack of CCCP cigarettes. (8 or 9 ruble/ 0.25 dollar) and hand them out if asked. 9 out of 10 will walk off after (with a smile).

[attachment=9168]

Post: #73

(12-19-2012 03:17 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(12-19-2012 01:43 PM)Partizan Wrote:  

(12-19-2012 07:52 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 11:16 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  In Russia there is little or no accountability to the militia, which quite terrifyingly a third of which is now comprised of muslims.

(12-19-2012 04:22 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

Damn,Partizan must be a hard mofo if he is hitting on women in clubs populated by goons like that.

I would shit myself if I saw them lads heading right for me.

You guys watch too many movies. I would not be fazed if I saw a bunch of these guys in the street and I was walking near. These guys are not gonna draw attention to them by harassing a simple tourist for no reason (even though they might have the local police in their pocket)

This type of guy will:


Young, drunk and no future.
Take this advice: Have cigarettes on you even if you don't smoke. These guys will ask you for them a lot. Buy a pack of CCCP cigarettes. (8 or 9 ruble/ 0.25 dollar) and hand them out if asked. 9 out of 10 will walk off after (with a smile).

Yes , Neil said it right. I mentioned that I do not smoke but I use cigarettes to get away from the local drunk guys. That photo is basically the type of guy who will be your nemesis. Pay them to leave.


As for militia, Yes they are corrupt but I got kind of a soft spot for them.From my experience most of the time they legitimately stop people for doing something wrong. But of course they make a big deal about it and want payment under the table.
When most of my expat friends got in trouble with the police i usually reminded them that they did technically break the law. Heck, when I needed to get my quotas(yes we had them) I WOULD WRITE YOU and there would be nothing you can really say to stop my pen. Remember if a cop has to give 20 tickets hes going to make sure he gets 20 people to write. Local FSU militisia also have there productivity monitored. The difference is, unlike most western cops they can expect a bribe. Often they will give a share of their under the table income to their immediate supervisors to get them off their back. The slang in police for this is called "paying the rent". In NYPD meeting the rent was bringing in a certain amount of arrest or summons activity. In FSU it is either activity or under the table payments.
However, unless it has changed a lot of Ukrainian station houses were strapped for funds and the cops actually had to pay for paper and supplies that were needed to process official arrests. If this is still the same, it means in reality arresting you is the last thing they want to do. They have to pay out of their own pocket to do so.If that is still the case , you can probably call their bluff and walk away.

Post: #74

Actually in some Sofia clubs like Sin City guys look like that and they are the ones accompanied by hot women.Bulgarian guys are characterized by massive necks it is another thing to describe them and another to see them in row.They lack however the uptight tense posture of Serbs and the very big forearms of the latter.
In Ukraine many guys are malnourished and pose no danger.Their physical built does not carry a relation to the common Balkan appearance(wide shoulders, muscular backs etc).In Russia almost all guys have some knowledge of boxing and some skill in martial arts is essential in this country for survival.

Generally Russians are the most unpredictable of all they can change in a moment.Ukrainians are very europeanized and almost never threatening except in Donetsk which is the mafia centre.Russians do not give a shit about foreigners actually they do not want foreigners in their country and the number of tourists to Russia has seriously decreased.A non Slav can have every kind of difficulty in Russia especially if he does not speak Russian.(for example they denied to me to stay on a hotel because I was not a Russian citizen and the hotel was meant for Russians only).

They also never try to facilitate you in anything and cause all kinds of problems for very ordinary stuff.In Ukraine it is the opposite.As long as you pay you get royal treatment and everyone is more than willing to take your euro.(in Russia they even refuse to change to rubles in many cases.They also like to spit in your face and show you who is the boss in Russia).

Post: #75

(12-19-2012 04:35 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Actually in some Sofia clubs like Sin City guys look like that and they are the ones accompanied by hot women.Bulgarian guys are characterized by massive necks it is another thing to describe them and another to see them in row.They lack however the uptight tense posture of Serbs and the very big forearms of the latter.
In Ukraine many guys are malnourished and pose no danger.Their physical built does not carry a relation to the common Balkan appearance(wide shoulders, muscular backs etc).In Russia almost all guys have some knowledge of boxing and some skill in martial arts is essential in this country for survival.

Generally Russians are the most unpredictable of all they can change in a moment.Ukrainians are very europeanized and almost never threatening except in Donetsk which is the mafia centre.Russians do not give a shit about foreigners actually they do not want foreigners in their country and the number of tourists to Russia has seriously decreased.A non Slav can have every kind of difficulty in Russia especially if he does not speak Russian.(for example they denied to me to stay on a hotel because I was not a Russian citizen and the hotel was meant for Russians only).

They also never try to facilitate you in anything and cause all kinds of problems for very ordinary stuff.In Ukraine it is the opposite.As long as you pay you get royal treatment and everyone is more than willing to take your euro.(in Russia they even refuse to change to rubles in many cases.They also like to spit in your face and show you who is the boss in Russia).

UKRAINE stops being European once you go East of Kiev. These areas are heavily Russian in attitude. Lugansk, Donetsk, Dnipro, Kharkiv , etc are all basically Russian. Kharkov is even full of workers from Russia. Ukrainians might be smaller because like you said they have less protein in their diet. However, you do realize size is not the most important thing ,right? I am an ectomorph, I still took down 260 lb muscled African Americans on a daily basis.I will say The Russians biggest advantage is in addition to their training is the hardness they have gone though. A lot of them have been forced into military service. Being in Russian military is no joke. it is survival of the fittest. Ukraine also had compulsory military service but it is extremely easy to avoid it. I seriously think 75% get out of it. You can bribe a doctor for a exemption note.
Donetsk mafia is tough. But isn't all mafia tough? Odessa is the worst with mafia in terms of global scale.
What makes mafia so tough in Donetsk is that it has infiltrated beyond thugs. As you know the current president of Ukraine is ONE of them. The Donetsk mafia not only is the legal ruling body there but it has people's support. That's what makes that area FUCKED up. Lugansk also is similar.
The oblast (mafia) gov't pretends to support the people ,so the people support them. The people themselves are pretty tough. A lot of the strong worker unions are miners. These are tough hearty redneck guys to begin with.They also often went without pay for many months and are angry at outsiders. The local mafia gov't was able to convince them that they are trying to get them paid and make job safer, without closing mines. Kiev comes across as there enemy because Kiev wants to make mines safer by closing them, thus workers being fired. Kiev gets pushed on safety issues by Western gov'ts including USA and Euro nations. This makes people somewhat antagonistic there against Westerners and even downright paranoid. Russian Pravda is like the most read paper there.
Heck, they think the Peace Corps are American spies lol. They blame Westerners for contributing to Yushchenko's short rise to power.
Here's rap sheet for Yanukovych. It leaves out that he was accused of rape:
On 15 December 1967, at the age of 17, Yanukovych was sentenced to three years incarceration for participating in a robbery and assault .[17] The sentence was later reduced to 18 months as part of the amnesty announced in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the October Revolution. The court did not show Yanukovych clemency, a practice common for young, first-time offenders. At the court trial Yanukovych pleaded guilty and did not appeal his sentence even though he had the chance to do so at the expense of the state.[citation needed]

On 8 June 1970 he was convicted for a second time on charges of assault and was sentenced to two years of imprisonment. The verdict was not appealed. Decades later, Yanukovych characterized his arrests and incarceration as "errors of youth".[18]

On 11 July 2005, the office of the Donetsk Oblast Prosecutor charged Mr. Yanukovych with fraud[19] stemming alleged irregularities in the way his convictions were expunged twenty years earlier.[20] In 2006 the General Prosecutor of Ukraine closed the case due to lack of evidence.[21] In 2006 a criminal charge was filed for the falsification of documents regarding the alleged quashing of Yanukovych's prior convictions after it was discovered that two documents had been forged. The signature of the judge in Yanukovych's case had also been forged as a charge of battery.[17][18] The charge failed because all documentation regarding the conviction had been destroyed due to its expiry.[citation needed] However, there were no official records regarding the destruction of these documents.[original research?]

Donetsk is actually safer than the smaller mining cities next to it.