Post: #51

Agreed with your 2nd response 100%.

Post: #52

There are plenty of guys who are average and above average in their success with women back home who visit SEA, both as expats and as tourists. As I'm sure you've seen. They have relations with the local girls, and we can make comparisons.

And again, when I talk about inspiring romance out of the girl, I personally don't have in mind giving flowers or "being romantic". I might even be talking about giving the girl a smack. I'm talking about doing things that cause the woman to fall in love. Not doing traditionally romantic things. It could be public sex. Whatever.

Again, I propose that if a man has the intention to have a girl feel romantic towards him, and has experiences to draw on that have shown him ways to accomplish this, in any culture and any place this will better position him to have success in making the girl feel romantic.

We can't get all girls to feel romance. Some places it's easier than others. But all girls will feel romantic for someone, and it's possible to increase ones chances of being that someone.

In other words, there is relationship game - our actions matter. It's not ONLY about looks, it's not ONLY about status, it's not ONLY about money, it's not ONLY about height. And it's not ONLY about getting a girl to fuck you. Our actions can also also create romance. Just our actions.

And I think it's a problem that some guys don't believe this. This is a forum where guys go on and on about not having limiting beliefs, to the point of denying the realities of context, and yet when it comes to romance, the denial is in the other direction.

I hear denial that romance is even possible.

Now I may not be the messenger that some people want to listen to for this message, as my circumstances are different than most guys. So that's why I keep trying to ask people to talk about their experiences in the west and those of their friends. Thats why I remind the disbelievers to consider the data of their peers on this forum. If some famous singers get up on stage and croon to their ex boyfriends, even while married, and make alpha widow videos, then you know that romantic triggers are real and valid.

Once we can at least agree on that, we could talk about what it takes to be able to inspire romantic feelings. Is it REALLY the case that the man must have extra-ordinary status? And if so, can we quantify that? Are there exceptions? Are there ways around that? Are there ways to hack the system?

Post: #53

Of course there will be some guys who are decent with girls, but the percentage is a lot lower than it would be back home. This has been painfully obvious in about every place I have been. If you are comparing yourself to some of the few guys that did well back in their own countries than that is different than just "other expats", because its a lot smaller percentage.

Of course there is relationship game, but it plays off the foundation of game at the beginning stages. It's all about continuing to show the personality attributes that are attractive. Because after a girl has sex and enters into a relationship it becomes a lot harder to lose her, a lot of guys will just stop gaming and showing attractive qualities. Relationship game is just continuing to game her, continuing to show you are higher value than she is. The ways that you do this are relationship game.

If you are trying to get some blog followers from the forum I won't hate on you. I think relationship game is an important thing to know. I just think you should share some stuff from when you were back west because relationship game is on easy mode here and back in the states its on hard mode.

Post: #54

(12-12-2012 01:30 PM)20Nation Wrote:  Of course there will be some guys who are decent with girls, but the percentage is a lot lower than it would be back home. This has been painfully obvious in about every place I have been. If you are comparing yourself to some of the few guys that did well back in their own countries than that is different than just "other expats", because its a lot smaller percentage.

Of course there is relationship game, but it plays off the foundation of game at the beginning stages. It's all about continuing to show the personality attributes that are attractive. Because after a girl has sex and enters into a relationship it becomes a lot harder to lose her, a lot of guys will just stop gaming and showing attractive qualities. Relationship game is just continuing to game her, continuing to show you are higher value than she is. The ways that you do this are relationship game.

If you are trying to get some blog followers from the forum I won't hate on you. I think relationship game is an important thing to know. I just think you should share some stuff from when you were back west because relationship game is on easy mode here and back in the states its on hard mode.

More blog readers would be good, but I have the same motivation to have blog readers as I do to write on this forum.

It might seem strange to hear it, but I actually want to help guys.

I'm not yanking anyones chain when I say that the limiting belief that western women are incapable of romance and that aloof alpha game that denies the value of emotional connection is something that I consider harmful to other men. At least it's harmful to the men with proclivities towards romance. Pushing a dark triad agenda on non dark triad men is evil.

I'm acting to stop harm to other men.

I think my ideas can stand on their own merit. We can discuss if the ideas I put forth work, or not. Maybe they don't. Maybe they do. According to some men on this forum, having girls fall in love with them is a common occurence now in the west.

If it makes any difference to you I had slightly above average success with women while I lived in the west, even with noticably below average looks, height, and income. Several times above lifetime average notch count, a marriage, some LTRs, one night stands, flings, and what have you. But I learned most of what I now know while living in SEA. If I could give advice to my young self, I would. I'm qualified for that. And so out of the same inspiration to help others find happiness and avoid pain, I'd like to help others in the same way I'd help my young self.

Even if I learned much of what I now know in another country.

Post: #55

I enjoy romance. Doesn't everybody?

Well, I guess not everybody does. Some people are in hard core party mode and they don't have a need for romance. I understand that. Girls can be in slut mode and guys can be in player mode.

I am a player but I also enjoy romance. I am romantic but I still go for the bang on the first date. Romance is one of the great pleasures in life. It's fun and it adds to the richness of the playboy lifestyle.

I am not romantic with every girl. I am only romantic with the girls who want romance. I am not romantic with girls who don't want romance. It's that simple. I give them what they want. If they want a "boyfriend experience", I give them that, if they don't, I don't.

I only give them enough romance to keep them stimulated. I don't want to fall in love or have her fall in love with me, though, it does happen sometimes.

It's important to manage the relationship and not let things get too romantic.

I am always saying....

"I just got out of an ltr and I'm in no hurry to get back into one"

"I might be moving to South America for work in a few months"

And, I keep her at a certain distance so she can't get to close to me. We don't talk everyday and we don't see each other everyday. Once, twice, maybe 3 times a week is enough.

I have had a few bad breakups but hey, no one is perfect.

As I have gotten better at controlling the level of romance I have had less bad breakups. It's really about controlling and managing the level of romance in the relationship. There are times to tun it on and times to turn it off.

I try to be as courteous as possible. I hate hurting people. (unless they deserve it)

Props to Gmanifesto for this cutting edge post on the topic:

http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2011/02/min...ships.html

Post: #56

(12-12-2012 02:16 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Romance is one of the great pleasures in life. It's fun and it adds to the richness of the playboy lifestyle.

That's my experience too. Romance is a huge quality of life enhancer.

I understand that's not the case for all people. Probably some people simply aren't built to feel those emotions. Others get less of a kick out of them than I do.

But this is the reason that I occasionally bring up the topic; I suspect that there are some guys who would have their lives improved by romance, if only they had access to it.

Now I've been labeled as over-optimistic, and told that men who would otherwise prefer romance simply can not have that in the West. Hell, I've been told that they can't have real romance out East either.

I'm calling bullshit there. Just like any PUA would call bullshit on short guys not being able to get laid. It might take an extraordinary level of skill, that only comes from hard won knowledge, that only comes from experience after experience, but I'm convinced that all the evidence is telling us that romance is available to those that want it.

***

Here is an interesting aside. When I mention that whore-mongers don't seem to notice that paying for sex is usually lessening the intimacy, and therefore pleasure in their lives, I get extreme hate. People wind up claiming that since I'm in SEA, therefore all my loved ones are all prostitutes, and that I've not experienced genuine affection or intimacy. One guy called me a hack - as if my poor writing skills were relevent to the truth of their inability to value intimacy. It seems to me that pointing out that there is the possiblity of romance is the same as telling some guys "You don't love yourself, you don't love others, and no one loves you. You are living your life wrong. You fail at life" And so when I mention my view on whoremongering I get the most extreme hate, and any possible attempt at completely invalidating me. Not just my arguments, me. I'm lying, I'm eggagerating, I'm a duped chump, blah blah blah. Basically the whoremongers try to bring me down to their level - denying that romance is something that women feel. Because if romance was a thing that happens to people who know how to get it, then it would be true that they were missing out on something that others find deeply valuable.

Post: #57

This thread makes me sad. I think the only value, the "Boyfriend Experience" has, is in creating the feelings of safety that the female mind craves. David Deangelo would call that attractor force gravity. If you can instill those feelings of safety in a woman, she is more apt to gravitate towards you and, if your internal frame is strong enough, around you. Otherwise, if you're not committed to the game it rings too closely with getting high off your own supply.

I am going to reiterate that I personally think while romance is fun, in the context of game, it is only useful in triggering the safety and security part of the female brain; That's what "betas" do. The only way to really play this angle in my opinion is as a seduction gambit in the truest sense of the word. Because otherwise you're in LTR territory or beta-land.


-PJ


P.S. If you're in the game to find a girlfriend then I suppose then you're on the wrong forum.

Post: #58

(12-12-2012 03:22 PM)PJ25 Wrote:  If you're in the game to find a girlfriend then I suppose then you're on the wrong forum.

I disagree. I welcome guys who want a girlfriend.

There are here to learn the skills so they can get a girlfriend.

I'm sure there are alot guys here who want to get married.

They are here to learn how to become more attractive so they can have more options of higher quality girls. I see nothing wrong with this.

I don't expect everyone to be a player. I don't expect everyone to be like me. The player lifestyle is not for everybody. In fact, I think most guys would be happier in an ltr. Only a few guys can be happy as a life long player.

Relationship game and LTR game are things we can't ignore. I think we should help guys in these areas also.

Game isn't just about collecting notches, its also about being the best man you can be. I beleive in helping men be the best the can be no matter if thats banging 1000 girls or attracting one that he can have kids with. Different goals but they both require GAME.

P.S. I agree with everything else you said in that post.

Post: #59

Women don't understand true romance, they understand disney romance, women can't even be romantic but they experience the effects of romance. This is why when you as a man create a deep impression and conversion on a woman who is one of your plates, the loss of you in her life magnifies above the loss of others who were actual boyfriends.

Post: #60

As if in response to this thread let me tell you what just happened:

I saw a buddy out and I met the girl he was with about 10 days ago. 21 yr old hot little brunette. She had the sexy and cute look. Great hair, she's in some shampoo/styling commercial.

Anyway, I ask my friend how it went. "Terrible". He had been out with her once, then went all out and made her dinner. Got nothing. Not even a makeout. Apparently she's a "good" girl.

I saw her the other night at my condo's Christmas party, she was there with another girlfriend who lives here and I was with a girl I'd met the night before. This girl was giving me the vibe and when my girl went to the bathroom I got her number.

I brought my girl back to my place and holy fuck was this chick getting on my nerves. She started lecturing me on how she wasn't going to sleep with me and she was one of these girls who's whole sense of humor was comprised of "canned" humor. In other words, nothing was actually witty, she just had a lot of cute/snarky responses memorized and would constantly belt these out. Anyway rather than trudging on through the bs I sometimes get testy with girls like this and I just said "It's time for you to get a taxi" and walked her out, not slamming but not closing the door gently behind her.

She goes downstairs back to the party and bitches to the other girl about how I'm an asshole and told her to leave because she wouldn't sleep with me. Not true btw I sent her home because I'd finally gotten sick of her attitude.

Now, from there I start texting the other girl, and under the guise of bringing her soup last night (she's had the flu) I go over to her house. I can't even get a kiss out of this girl at first but wind up fucking her raw.

I don't know fellas, Yeah I brought her soup but that was the plausible deniability that let her guard down.

And in a twist of poetic Justice, my friend who couldn't bang this girl ran into the bitchy girl last night and she told him to tell me to call her.

Post: #61

(12-13-2012 01:04 PM)Fisto Wrote:  my friend who couldn't bang this girl ran into the bitchy girl last night and she told him to tell me to call her.

Ouch.

Sounds like your friend needs to get on this forum.

Post: #62

(12-13-2012 01:15 PM)_GQ_ Wrote:  

(12-13-2012 01:04 PM)Fisto Wrote:  my friend who couldn't bang this girl ran into the bitchy girl last night and she told him to tell me to call her.

Ouch.

Sounds like your friend needs to get on this forum.

Trust me, that would be a terrible idea. He's the worst troll in real life. I can't imagine the chaos he'd cause here. I should unleash him on the NN forum...but just like kudzu, he'd spill over here in and uncontrollable overgrowth eventually....

Post: #63

(12-13-2012 01:04 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Anyway, I ask my friend how it went. "Terrible". He had been out with her once, then went all out and made her dinner. Got nothing. Not even a makeout. Apparently she's a "good" girl.

[...]

I can't even get a kiss out of this girl at first but wind up fucking her raw.

See, I just can't understand how guys want to get a relationship. They convince themselves the girl they have found is "special" when in fact she's just like the rest of 'em.

Post: #64

Its incredibly easier in "some" third world countries. Why? Because you are instantly a high value male just by getting off that airplane. Your resources and life style are so superior (in their views) to that of local men that you are a hot commodity. The funny thing, most girls I know who have moved to the first world as well as guys absolutely hate it and want to go back.

Hot girls have a new guy(s) in there life the day you leave them. By the 7th day shes likely gotten laid. By a month its a foregone conclusion.

They will lie through their teeth about it but trust me they are getting it. No different than a gf of yours who suspects your with other girls. You'll lie through your teeth about it too.

As to the romance game. Why not have both. Have a girlfriend(s) and then go have one night stands/ flings as well if you desire that.

You can certainly make a girl fall for you on the first date and bang as well, even with very attractive woman.

Being the top of the dating market is just more difficult in the first world. I.e. guys in the 50th percentile can move to a 2nd world country and all of a sudden be 90th percentile 3rd world 99th percentile.

What this essentially means is that the guys who are very successful with woman here 99th percentile will not notice as much difference in there success upon going abroad as the 50th percentile guy.

Love and sex are two different things. Too many people confuse the 2.

The movies detail the boyfriend experience where some guy crawls through 1000 miles of hell only to get the girl of his dreams years later. Its fiction.

What people really want men and woman is "Experiences" to many people focus on "goods." they think she wants a mercedes and louis vutton purse. No what she wants is to experience something new and stimulating. Just like us guys.

Post: #65

Not to be mean, but Xsplat probably hasn't dealt with the "new" generation of women in their 20s in urban areas like DC. These women are devoid of the concept of honor, of loyalty, of family, or of the meaning of love. All they know is iphones, "feelings" which is actually hamsterism, and vain status-whoring. They're "women" only in the physical sense, otherwise they're basically consumerist herd-animals. Tragic, but we have to adapt or die.

Relationships are, almost always, for the modern young man, only good for a relatively steady guarantee of sex.

Post: #66

(12-13-2012 06:43 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  Being the top of the dating market is just more difficult in the first world. I.e. guys in the 50th percentile can move to a 2nd world country and all of a sudden be 90th percentile 3rd world 99th percentile.

Why I want to take the first plane to anywhere else. Along with 1,000 other reasons.

Post: #67

(12-13-2012 07:35 PM)Anon-A-Moose Wrote:  Not to be mean, but Xsplat probably hasn't dealt with the "new" generation of women in their 20s in urban areas like DC. These women are devoid of the concept of honor, of loyalty, of family, or of the meaning of love. All they know is iphones, "feelings" which is actually hamsterism, and vain status-whoring. They're "women" only in the physical sense, otherwise they're basically consumerist herd-animals. Tragic, but we have to adapt or die.

Relationships are, almost always, for the modern young man, only good for a relatively steady guarantee of sex.

I think that might compare to the player girls out East. There are girls who date for fun and profit, and are hard core about it. SEA is pretty famous for it, actually. For some that's their first eye opener to the nature of women.

There are so many misconceptions about what it is that actually goes on out here. Not only do you get your girls with "traditional" values of looking for a virtuous marriage, but you also find professional girlfriends with a few hundred numbers on their phones and with complete familiarity with how to use the internet for access to suitors.

You can play a player. A man can turn the tables on a parallel-dating girl, and get her to fall. That's a fun reward, when the girl who thought she was playing you eventually looks up to you in wonderment and says "Daddy, why I love you Daddy? You no rich, you no handsome. Why I love you?"

" All they know is iphones, "feelings" which is actually hamsterism, and vain status-whoring. They're "women" only in the physical sense, otherwise they're basically consumerist herd-animals. "

Come to SEA and check things out. But before you do, count the percent of women who are habitually toying with their Blackberries before you go. Then on arrival make a new survey and compare the numbers. And if spending 3 months salary to get a phone as good as your friends is a sign of consumerism, then all signs point to SEA being a world leader for herd animal consumerism.

And if you want to talk about cock hopping, the SEA girls are more than willing to compete for another world record. Ever fuck a girl while she's chatting on the phone with her fiance?

The world is a small place. It's not nearly as different as people think.

And here is something I just can't get. Really. If going to SEA boosts your value, how much of a value boost do you get? Infinite? Would you be able to expect to thereby break into the social circle of the rich and famous through your white skin? It doesn't work that way, and can work against you. Unless you are talking about novelty sex, girls are much less likely to consider you relationship material in some countries. In Thailand for instance it's only the low status girls who gain status by dating a westerner. The High So's won't want to be seen with you. Or at least they'd never introduce you to their parents. You get stilts. Standing on stilts you can reach more apples. But the stilts don't allow you to reach the top of the tree - they are only 5 foot stilts. If you are young and of average or better looks to begin with, you'll reach a hell of a lot of apples. But if you are old and noticeably below average in physical attraction, it's not the free for all that the handsome guys experience. It's a completely different world.

Attractive guys imagine that everyone is awarded 10 leveling points at the airport that enables to them to slay all women. Hand those 10 leveling points to an ugly broke 75 year old and who is he going to slay at the nightclub full of Australian surfer dudes? You get a relative boost, not an absolute one. And no matter how handome you are, the effect is limited - it's not a full access pussy pass to women of all hotness and social statures. There are going to be women you have to work for, and there are going to be women you can't get.

Even in SEA your actions affect your outcome. Why anyone would think otherwise is a mystery to me, but I tend to think it has to do with having some sort of agenda. There is no place on the planet where you can't learn to hone your actions to better deal with the cross-cultural hind-brain oriented beast that is woman. And 90% of what is woman is cross cultural.

And it's both true that women move on quickly and are shallow in emotional affect, and that they fall deeply and can pine for a man for ages. That's true in any county. The alpha widow experience is rare in all countries, but is another cross-cultural constant. You don't automatically provoke that by having white skin in a poorer country, anymore than a rich banker in a beamer is going to automatically provoke that in a trailer trash girl. That kind of deep conversion requires a honed ability to get deeply under a girls skin - and that is something that talented men can learn. That happens through his actions.

I know I'm going to get hate for this, but I'm just going to be blunt. Again. If you aren't getting deeply under the skin of the woman, the major factor of that is you and your actions. If you haven't done that yet, then going to SEA isn't going to have you automatically doing it here. As attested to by the many guys here who don't perform deep conversions with the SEA talent. Even the young and handsome trust fundie guys don't get free access to deep conversion. Here or anywhere. The process is quite subtle, and requires either innate talent, learning, or both. And it's something you can get better at, no matter where you live. Because the process involves dealing with women at a very instinctual level - a level that is pre-cultural.

The world is a small place. The more of it you see, the smaller it gets.

If a guy has never performed a deep conversion, his life experiences will lead him to believe that such a thing is fiction. I'm not going to be able to go against a man's life experiences enough to convince him of a whole new way of relating with women. But maybe your peers can. There are very many men in our community who routinely perform deep conversions. In your own time and places. If you can't fit the data that they provide into your world view, then examine your world view.

Post: #68

(12-13-2012 09:37 PM)xsplat Wrote:  I know I'm going to get hate for this, but I'm just going to be blunt. Again. If you aren't getting deeply under the skin of the woman, the major factor of that is you and your actions. If you haven't done that yet, then going to SEA isn't going to have you automatically doing it here. As attested to by the many guys here who don't perform deep conversions with the SEA talent. Even the young and handsome trust fundie guys don't get free access to deep conversion. Here or anywhere. The process is quite subtle, and requires either innate talent, learning, or both. And it's something you can get better at, no matter where you live. Because the process involves dealing with women at a very instinctual level - a level that is pre-cultural.

Post: #69

(12-13-2012 09:37 PM)xsplat Wrote:  If a guy has never performed a deep conversion, his life experiences will lead him to believe that such a thing is fiction. I'm not going to be able to go against a man's life experiences enough to convince him of a whole new way of relating with women. But maybe your peers can. There are very many men in our community who routinely perform deep conversions. In your own time and places. If you can't fit the data that they provide into your world view, then examine your world view.

This I have to agree with, it's something that we've been doing this year here in London, sometimes even unconciously. I guess it's just the style of game we are displaying. We've all stuck to a 90 day rule regardless of the girl just so we don't get stuck in a rut ourselves. The benefits behind some of these deep conversions has been these women wanting to spend more than the 1 day a week you've allocated them and not caring if you're seeing other women as you've made their brains realise that spending that small amount of time with you is better than no time at all with you or lots of time with some other weak arsed man.

Post: #70

OP, define your Romance / The Boyfriend Experience, what does that mean to you and what you do to provide such experience.

Cause passionate start aka going for the bang, ONS, SNL or whatever actually IS the best way to give a girl Romance / The Boyfriend Experience in my books.

Post: #71

(12-13-2012 07:35 PM)Anon-A-Moose Wrote:  Not to be mean, but Xsplat probably hasn't dealt with the "new" generation of women in their 20s in urban areas like DC. These women are devoid of the concept of honor, of loyalty, of family, or of the meaning of love. All they know is iphones, "feelings" which is actually hamsterism, and vain status-whoring. They're "women" only in the physical sense, otherwise they're basically consumerist herd-animals. Tragic, but we have to adapt or die.

Relationships are, almost always, for the modern young man, only good for a relatively steady guarantee of sex.

Concur. I've been in DC for several months and the women here are godless, soulless, heartless, emotionless sociopaths. I can't even imagine to try to relate to a 28 year old woman that works at the SEC or Pentagon in the way xsplat describes.

Maybe it is time for a vacation to SEA.

Post: #72

(12-13-2012 07:35 PM)Anon-A-Moose Wrote:  Not to be mean, but Xsplat probably hasn't dealt with the "new" generation of women in their 20s in urban areas like DC. These women are devoid of the concept of honor, of loyalty, of family, or of the meaning of love. All they know is iphones, "feelings" which is actually hamsterism, and vain status-whoring. They're "women" only in the physical sense, otherwise they're basically consumerist herd-animals. Tragic, but we have to adapt or die.

I think this very key, b/c IME I don't see what many of you say about US women (at least not in enough amount to make such sweeping generalizations), but I don't deal with large cities and the people who live there. I spend my life in rural areas and small towns/cities where I find many women who are into the concepts of honor, loyalty and family.

If you want to hunt deer don't do it in the ocean.

Post: #73

(12-11-2012 02:43 PM)Sphere Wrote:  This is a derivative from an ongoing thread about aloofness vs. attraction.

The subject of using Romance as an attractor was raised and it deserves it's own thread.

I posted this:

(12-11-2012 12:54 PM)Sphere Wrote:  Providing "the boyfriend experience" has always been my go-to move. The challenge for me as an ethical guy is that I get sucked into it. Once I've got a girl on the hook it feels really shabby to just blow them off. I've done it with lesser quality girls and I still feel shabby although all of them have at one point or another acknowledged that they probably can't hold my interest.

So the question becomes, how much or how often do you use Romance or The Boyfriend Experience in seduction when compared with just flat out going for the bang, ONS, SNL or whatever?

I also posted a secondary question in that thread.

(12-11-2012 12:54 PM)Sphere Wrote:  How do you play the end of that game out? If you're playing the romance game how do you then get what you want and move on? I understand the "pump", it's the "dump" I struggle with given that I only use that move on LTR-worthy girls.

Still digesting the blue pill perhaps?

How does the "dump" play out for those of you that use Romance or The Boyfriend Experience in seduction?

Comments?

I'm quite sure the forum will call me on this if it's already been beaten to death.

*smh* not this again.

If you need a justification for doing what you knew you'd have to do when you first laid eyes on a chick is, remember that by a time a woman is 30, she's lost 90% of her eggs. (and by the time she's 27, she's lost a good 1-2 on her attractiveness scale)

Dumping her back on the market is the "ethical" thing to do. In her weakened state, maybe that orbiting Beta of hers, can finally get a chance to show her what a "real man" is.

Win/Win/Win

WIA