Post: #51

(11-17-2012 10:59 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  http://politix.topix.com/homepage/3442-u...bankruptcy

Quote:"As the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256."

Socialist Thugs!

Isn't it obvious? They were cashing out on the biz after the union had gutted it out completely.

Since they knew Hostess was completely dead due to their bankrupting union, they gave themselves raises as they knew they'd be without jobs by the end of the year.

Here's some evidence for what I'm claiming. Keep in mind this was written in Feburary of 2012, so, as usual, Forbes was calling the shots long in advance of what would ultimately happen.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/20...-twinkies/

Quote:But in an affidavit filed by its chief executive Brian J. Driscoll, Hostess did report sales: $2.5 billion last year. Among convenience-store snacks, Driscoll said, Hostess Donettes are the no. 1 seller, with the company’s brands holding down four of the top five slots and nine of the top 20.

Doesn’t sound like America has entirely switched to carrot sticks and celery, does it? Hostess’s problem isn’t that its customers have suddenly lost their appetite. It’s that unions are devouring the company from the inside out.

Hostess, unlike its chief competitors, is heavily unionized (83 percent of its work force), principally by the Teamsters and the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union. These unions are doing what unions do best: Endangering the financial health of the company and ultimately the continued delivery of ts own members’ paychecks.

Hostess provides pensions via 40 multiemployer pension plans, Driscoll said. That has left the company on the hook for the obligations of other companies that have been driven out of business. Hostess does not “have a competitive cost structure and cannot achieve viability on a long-term sustainable basis,” Driscoll said.

The Teamsters’ response: So what? Pay us. Rather than negotiate in good faith, the Teamsters threatened this week to strike, and they claim 90 percent of its voting workforce has backed the idea. They might do well to purchase a copy of the February 6 edition of the New Yorker, which detailed how union demands drove the Stella D’Oro cookie factory out of business in the Bronx, New York City.

Workers there refused to even consider ending the practice of getting a paid holiday on their birthdays each year. How did that intransigence work out? Despite the interference of an NLRB judge who told Stella D’Oro to essentially do the bidding of the BCTGM union, the marketplace eventually won. Today the cookie brand produces its goods in a non-union bakery in Ohio.

Hostess is saddled with 372 collective bargaining agreements, 80 different health and pension benefit plans and workers’ compensation costs that last year hit $52 million–which works out to over $2700 for each of its 19,000 employees.

Hostess had one of the most generous pension plans I've ever seen, and the union employees were demanding more? In a down economy?

Quote:When the Hostess man delivers product to the store, he isn’t allowed to move items from storage to the shelves; instead, a different employee, called a “pull-up” worker, has to do that job. Oh, and if both cakes and bread are involved? You guessed it: there’s a cake pull-up and a bread pull-up. One guy couldn’t possibly do the same task. If Hostess wants to enter a new market, work rules still apply.

The union forced Hostess to create extra jobs for more employees?


I mean this is just a clear cut case of a ridiculous, bullshit union, I'm not surprised at all that the CEO's gave themselves huge raises right before the entire thing crashed to the ground.

If I was the CEO of Hostess I would have also said, "Fuck these cocksuckers" and bailed on them too.

Post: #52

I just heard back from a family member that works for Hostess, her last day is Tuesday.

She said that just before the company decided to shutdown that there was a hearing with a judge or arbitrator who was trying to work a deal between the company and the union representing about 5,000 of the 18,500 workers. The judge told the union leaders that if they did not compromise the company would be forced to shutdown. The union guys said we don't believe you, you are bluffing, the company is fine, and would hold out as long as possible to win. The union guys won, they didn't have to compromise, unfortunately their victory cost 18,500 people their job. One of the other unions that has employees with Hostess already compromised and came to a new agreement.

She said a big sticking point was that employees are now being ask to pay for a portion of their healthcare cost that are set to rise around 20% in the beginning of 2013. She said that she hasn't had to pay much in all the years she worked there for healthcare cost and didn't mind contributing to part of the cost.

Post: #53

Quote:She said a big sticking point was that employees are now being ask to pay for a portion of their healthcare cost that are set to rise around 20% in the beginning of 2013. She said that she hasn't had to pay much in all the years she worked there for healthcare cost and didn't mind contributing to part of the cost.

Wow, Obamacare killed Hostess. Talk about unintended consequences.

Post: #54

Best story about the Hostess demise:

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/0...-bankrupt/

Some key things to consider:

One of the PE firms involved in this deal is Ripplewood, run by Tim Collins, a Democrat.

Quote:Ripplewood's foray into Hostess was partly enabled by Collins's connections in the Democratic Party. He wanted to explore deals with union-involved companies and sought the help of former congressman [Dick] Gephardt, who in 2005 founded the Gephardt Group, an Atlanta consulting firm that provides "labor advisory services." In his 2004 presidential bid, Gephardt -- whose father was a Teamsters milk truck driver -- was endorsed by 21 of the largest U.S. labor unions; in 2003, Collins was one of 19 "founding members" of Gephardt's New York State leadership committee.

So there's an irony for you -- the path to liquidation was paved by exchanging bodily fluids with Democrats who are, supposedly, friends of labor.

These guys, alas, tried to SAVE Hostess, after it's PREVIOUS bankruptcy..but they couldn't do it. Cash flow does not lie.

Quote:Its debt sowed the very seeds of the next bankruptcy. Looking back on the decision to reinvest in Hostess in the first bankruptcy, one of the lenders now says, "If you look in the dictionary at the definition of throwing good money after bad, there should be a picture of Hostess beside it."

By late 2011, Hostess was getting, well, creamed. Its sales last year -- $2.5 billion -- were down about 11% from 2008 and down 28% from 2004. (Twinkies remain the best individual seller -- 323 million of them in the 52-week period ending June 29, give or take a splurt.) Overall, Hostess lost $341 million in fiscal 2011, 2½ times the loss of the prior year -- and by early 2012, primarily because of burgeoning interest obligations, its debt had grown to about $860 million.

As revenue declined, the company continued to burn cash -- in the second half of 2011, the rate was $2 million a week. The liquidity crunch forced Ripplewood in the early spring of 2011 to pump in $40 million more in return for more equity as well as debt that was subordinate to that held by Silver Point and Monarch. In August -- to save a company teetering on the edge of fiscal calamity and forced liquidation -- Silver Point, Monarch, and the group of other lenders put up an additional $30 million to see if a negotiated turnaround was possible.

Bottom line?

Quote:.. . in truth there are no black hats or white knights in this tale. It's about shades of gray, where obstinacy, miscalculation, and lousy luck connived to create corporate catastrophe. Almost none of the parties involved would speak on the record. Still, it's clear from court documents and background interviews with a range of sources that practically nobody involved can shoot straight: The Teamsters remain stuck in a time warp, unwilling to sufficiently adapt in a competitive marketplace. The PE firm failed to turn Hostess around after taking it over. The hedgies can't see beyond their internal rates of return. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Post: #55

(11-19-2012 02:58 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:She said a big sticking point was that employees are now being ask to pay for a portion of their healthcare cost that are set to rise around 20% in the beginning of 2013. She said that she hasn't had to pay much in all the years she worked there for healthcare cost and didn't mind contributing to part of the cost.

Wow, Obamacare killed Hostess. Talk about unintended consequences.

How Ironic. I suspect a dying off of companies that provide "unhealthy" goods to the American people in the near future. It will save money for Obamacare. Maybe this is part of their deficit reducing strategy?

Post: #56

The misinformation campaign championed by corporate America is an example of one of the greatest PR campaigns in American history. Here you have corporations brainwashing middle and lower class citizens into thinking that unions are their worst enemy and that corporations are worse off by having to concede to their demands. Admittedly, they(unions) are not perfect.However, people wonder why they are losing houses and seeing executive comp go up, as they get squeezed and see their wages stagnate or drop, but its simple. Meanwhile in China, India, Vietnam and the like we see what unfettered capitalism absent of unions produces, a commoditized, exploited poor class that has little chance of prospering off of its own labor. In my experience the greatest irony of the anti-union movement is that many of the people that despise it the most are not rich or even particularly well off. Kinda reminds me of Joe the Plumber from awhile back.

Post: #57

(11-19-2012 12:24 PM)iWin Wrote:  The misinformation campaign championed by corporate America is an example of one of the greatest PR campaigns in American history. Here you have corporations brainwashing middle and lower class citizens into thinking that unions are their worst enemy and that corporations are worse off by having to concede to their demands. Admittedly, they(unions) are not perfect.However, people wonder why they are losing houses and seeing executive comp go up, as they get squeezed and see their wages stagnate or drop, but its simple. Meanwhile in China, India, Vietnam and the like we see what unfettered capitalism absent of unions produces, a commoditized, exploited poor class that has little chance of prospering off of its own labor. In my experience the greatest irony of the anti-union movement is that many of the people that despise it the most are not rich or even particularly well off. Kinda reminds me of Joe the Plumber from awhile back.

Go to one of those countries, get up on a soapbox, and tell them they're being exploited. They have seen their quality of life skyrocket over the last two decades because of foreign firms "exploiting" them. You would probably be laughed out of there or worse.

Post: #58

China's GDP went up over 500% in 25 years...




If that's exploitation, then I don't want freedom.

Post: #59

Twinkies Saved! Hostess, Bakers Union Agree to Mediation, Avoiding Shutdown!

Post: #60

(11-19-2012 03:11 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  Twinkies Saved! Hostess, Bakers Union Agree to Mediation, Avoiding Shutdown!

NOOOOOOOOO I just listed my twinkies on ebay and others are going for as much as $25-30 a box!!!!!!!!

Post: #61

(11-19-2012 01:54 PM)Katatonic Wrote:  

(11-19-2012 12:24 PM)iWin Wrote:  The misinformation campaign championed by corporate America is an example of one of the greatest PR campaigns in American history. Here you have corporations brainwashing middle and lower class citizens into thinking that unions are their worst enemy and that corporations are worse off by having to concede to their demands. Admittedly, they(unions) are not perfect.However, people wonder why they are losing houses and seeing executive comp go up, as they get squeezed and see their wages stagnate or drop, but its simple. Meanwhile in China, India, Vietnam and the like we see what unfettered capitalism absent of unions produces, a commoditized, exploited poor class that has little chance of prospering off of its own labor. In my experience the greatest irony of the anti-union movement is that many of the people that despise it the most are not rich or even particularly well off. Kinda reminds me of Joe the Plumber from awhile back.

Go to one of those countries, get up on a soapbox, and tell them they're being exploited. They have seen their quality of life skyrocket over the last two decades because of foreign firms "exploiting" them. You would probably be laughed out of there or worse.

Not really sure what the point of your post is. "They" isn't specific. Obviously, China's GDP has been skyrocketing and some people have been benefitting but thats the point. I specifically mentioned the peasant(poor)class. The growth has been in large part driven by(amongst other things) slave labor in manufacturing as chronicled in this article.

Quote:Hong Kong-based academic Pan Yi (潘毅) has said that the current conditions faced by peasant workers are even worse than those workers endured in the 19th century when Karl Marx formulated his ideas on labor and exploitation.
Pan has said that since 2000, strikes have become almost commonplace in the factories that belong to businesses in the Pearl River Delta and that thousands upon thousands of workers have taken part in these strikes. He also observed that the media never covers such labor unrest because strikes are simply too common.

Yup, I'm sure those peasant workers inciting civil unrest will undoubtedly laugh incredulously when asked if they are being treated fairly.

Post: #62

And what would those peasant workers be doing with their lives if they didn't have a factory job to get?

Post: #63

(11-19-2012 02:29 PM)Samseau Wrote:  China's GDP went up over 500% in 25 years...




If that's exploitation, then I don't want freedom.

Of course you wouldn't if you are at the top of the food chain. Those at the bottom aren't so lucky. The question is would you want to be at the bottom churning the capitalist machine with little to show for it while your boss amasses incredible amounts of largess?

Post: #64

(11-19-2012 08:51 PM)iWin Wrote:  

(11-19-2012 02:29 PM)Samseau Wrote:  China's GDP went up over 500% in 25 years...




If that's exploitation, then I don't want freedom.

Of course you wouldn't if you are at the top of the food chain. Those at the bottom aren't so lucky. The question is would you want to be at the bottom churning the capitalist machine with little to show for it while your boss amasses incredible amounts of largess?

Again - what would the alternative be?

Post: #65

(11-20-2012 11:20 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(11-19-2012 08:51 PM)iWin Wrote:  

(11-19-2012 02:29 PM)Samseau Wrote:  China's GDP went up over 500% in 25 years...




If that's exploitation, then I don't want freedom.

Of course you wouldn't if you are at the top of the food chain. Those at the bottom aren't so lucky. The question is would you want to be at the bottom churning the capitalist machine with little to show for it while your boss amasses incredible amounts of largess?

Again - what would the alternative be?

Presumably subsistence farming to support their familites or some kind of low level entrepreneurship. This question doesn't really apply however since their standard has not risen and seemingly gotten worse in many cases as I cited in the Taipei Times article. That is, if you are trying to imply that they are better off by working 15 hour days in slave like conditions, rather than working for themselves farming. At best its maybe a lateral move, and at worst it is egregiously husting backwards(pun intended).

Post: #66

Considering the Chinese automotive market now exceeds the US market, I think it is safe to say it's not just capitalist pigs that are enjoying the benefits of China's growing economy.

Post: #67

(11-19-2012 08:33 PM)iWin Wrote:  

(11-19-2012 01:54 PM)Katatonic Wrote:  

(11-19-2012 12:24 PM)iWin Wrote:  The misinformation campaign championed by corporate America is an example of one of the greatest PR campaigns in American history. Here you have corporations brainwashing middle and lower class citizens into thinking that unions are their worst enemy and that corporations are worse off by having to concede to their demands. Admittedly, they(unions) are not perfect.However, people wonder why they are losing houses and seeing executive comp go up, as they get squeezed and see their wages stagnate or drop, but its simple. Meanwhile in China, India, Vietnam and the like we see what unfettered capitalism absent of unions produces, a commoditized, exploited poor class that has little chance of prospering off of its own labor. In my experience the greatest irony of the anti-union movement is that many of the people that despise it the most are not rich or even particularly well off. Kinda reminds me of Joe the Plumber from awhile back.

Go to one of those countries, get up on a soapbox, and tell them they're being exploited. They have seen their quality of life skyrocket over the last two decades because of foreign firms "exploiting" them. You would probably be laughed out of there or worse.

Not really sure what the point of your post is. "They" isn't specific. Obviously, China's GDP has been skyrocketing and some people have been benefitting but thats the point. I specifically mentioned the peasant(poor)class. The growth has been in large part driven by(amongst other things) slave labor in manufacturing as chronicled in this article.

Quote:Hong Kong-based academic Pan Yi (潘毅) has said that the current conditions faced by peasant workers are even worse than those workers endured in the 19th century when Karl Marx formulated his ideas on labor and exploitation.
Pan has said that since 2000, strikes have become almost commonplace in the factories that belong to businesses in the Pearl River Delta and that thousands upon thousands of workers have taken part in these strikes. He also observed that the media never covers such labor unrest because strikes are simply too common.

Yup, I'm sure those peasant workers inciting civil unrest will undoubtedly laugh incredulously when asked if they are being treated fairly.

The article you posted proves my point. Why are millions of Chinese peasants flocking to the city where these companies are located rather than staying out in the country farming, or starting small local businesses?
The main problem is that China doesn't have private property rights. That's on the government, not free enterprise.

Chinese workers threatened mass suicide because they were being transferred to an alternate production line:

Quote:The Chinese contractor acknowledged in a statement Thursday that 150 workers had protested at its Wuhan factory on January 4.

The incident, the company said, stemmed from a decision to transfer all employees to an alternate production line. And though it was later resolved "successfully and peacefully," 45 workers have since chosen to resign.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/world/asia...index.html

Post: #68

Quote:The article you posted proves my point. Why are millions of Chinese peasants flocking to the city where these companies are located rather than staying out in the country farming, or starting small local businesses?
The main problem is that China doesn't have private property rights. That's on the government, not free enterprise.

Chinese workers threatened mass suicide because they were being transferred to an alternate production line:

Did you read the article? It in no way proves your point since you seem to be assuming that if a peasant moves to the city that their way of life automatically improves which I already proved in my past post to be(by and large) false. Again, I am not denying that China's economy has experienced unprecedented growth and that some people are doing quite well. My point has been that it has been on the back of what equates to slave labor that has benefited a very small elite and somewhat burgeoning middle class in relation to the astronomical total population of the country still living in squalor. The peasant class that is integral driving the change is getting screwed.

As far as why they migrate? It simple actually and quite analogous to immigration in any other country. They have this idea that opportunity is better in the city(or for the case of immigrants in other countries) and make a blind move ignorant of the pitfalls that await them(lack of papers, work permits, etc.) Hell, the article even says that its harder to get residency status as a citizen of China than it is for an immigrant to get a US green card. China's growth in no way disproves my point that many of the peasant class work in deplorable conditions.

Quote:The Chinese contractor acknowledged in a statement Thursday that 150 workers had protested at its Wuhan factory on January 4.

The incident, the company said, stemmed from a decision to transfer all employees to an alternate production line. And though it was later resolved "successfully and peacefully," 45 workers have since chosen to resign.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/world/asia...index.html

This article you posted isn't related to the article I posted. In fact there is a significant time gap between the two stories and they are completely mutually exclusive seeing as other the article I posted doesnt refer to a specific event. To read more about treatment of workers see here.

Post: #69

Well I was able to sell the 2 boxes of my twinkies on Ebay. I got $8.50 and 7.05 respectively.

If I would have posted them this weekend instead of being a lazy fuck I could've pulled $20 plus!

I was also charging $5.00 for shipping so I get to scrap a few bucks off the top of that also since Im guessing it wil only cost me 2 or 3 dollars to ship since I already have old boxes from amazon that I will put them in.

Now is when I'm glad I save all my cardboard boxes and packaging materials.

Post: #70

Update

Failed talks with union spells end to Twinkie-maker Hostess

http://news.yahoo.com/hostess-union-fail...nance.html

Post: #71

(11-20-2012 08:15 PM)murrb Wrote:  Well I was able to sell the 2 boxes of my twinkies on Ebay. I got $8.50 and 7.05 respectively.

If I would have posted them this weekend instead of being a lazy fuck I could've pulled $20 plus!

I was also charging $5.00 for shipping so I get to scrap a few bucks off the top of that also since Im guessing it wil only cost me 2 or 3 dollars to ship since I already have old boxes from amazon that I will put them in.

Now is when I'm glad I save all my cardboard boxes and packaging materials.

Shouldn't have sold!!!