Post: #1

I've done group classes twice in the past. 3 months in Spain, and 1 month in Thailand. Neither time did I learn much. A large part of that is because I'm a lazy fuck, but a large part is also because I feel group classes are not a great way to learn a language. If your class has 6-8 people, you get 1/6th to 1/8th as much speaking time as you would in a private session.

I want to up my Thai speaking ability the next time I come back to BKK, and I am planning on setting aside enough cash to do 4 hours of 1on1 lessons a day, 5 days a week, for a month. In Thailand this shouldn't cost me too much. In Brazil it may be pretty expensive, but in Thailand money isn't much of an issue.

Has anyone done this before, or something similar? For those of you that have experience with both group classes and private lessons, would you say the privates are much more valuable than the group classes?

Post: #2

(07-16-2012 10:12 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  I've done group classes twice in the past. 3 months in Spain, and 1 month in Thailand. Neither time did I learn much. A large part of that is because I'm a lazy fuck, but a large part is also because I feel group classes are not a great way to learn a language. If your class has 6-8 people, you get 1/6th to 1/8th as much speaking time as you would in a private session.

I want to up my Thai speaking ability the next time I come back to BKK, and I am planning on setting aside enough cash to do 4 hours of 1on1 lessons a day, 5 days a week, for a month. In Thailand this shouldn't cost me too much. In Brazil it may be pretty expensive, but in Thailand money isn't much of an issue.

Has anyone done this before, or something similar? For those of you that have experience with both group classes and private lessons, would you say the privates are much more valuable than the group classes?

I'd say you need "inspiration". I am currently learning a new language and the girl I talk to regularly is a 8, she's great looking and under 20 years old. Forget the tutor, all you really need is motivation. I realize much faster how shitty my language skills are every time we chat, so I practice even more.

Skype is probably the best invention of all time for this stuff.

If you really want to accelerate learning then buy a private 1 on 1 tutor. Pay up. You'll be more motivated. But again sounds like you have a decent amount of free time so go out there and get some "Skype girlfriends". Also if the girl thinks you're good looking she'll bend over backwards helping you out, no shame in having an "ugly" skype girlfriend who constantly wants to help you.

Post: #3

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Post: #4

Rio,

I did 4 hour a day 5 days a week in Argentina with a private one on one tutor. I took 6 years of Spanish classes in the U.S (of 30 people or more) and learned sloppy crap spanish.

After doing the 4 hour a days for a 2 to 3 months in Argentina, I became fluent in Spanish. At the time my level of Spanish got to the point where I would game Argentine girls and they would accuse me of being a native Argie, when I would try to tell them I'm actually American.

So yes, you're right, it did about 100 times more for my Spanish living abroad and doing the 1 on 1's compared to my group classes in the U.S.

Post: #5

What I have found works best for me is to learn the basics, then use the language A LOT in the country until I hit my wall. Essentially, push your limited vocabulary and grammar to the limit. Doing so will have 2 huge benefits. First, you will get REALLY good at what you do know. Second, when you hit the wall you will know what areas are most important to study next. Maybe there is some specific vocab you need to add, or maybe you have to work on your tenses.

Once you hit that wall, go home (or to your hotel room) that night and study up on that particular area. The next day make every effort to use your new found knowledge. So if you didn't know the past tense well before, go home and study up that night. The next day, take every opportunity to use the past tense with people. Tell stories, tell what you had for breakfast, talk about what your last trip was like, etc.

I find this method more organic/natural and more efficient. Languages are HUGE collections of vocabulary and grammar rules. The method I use helps me learn the things that I need most, in the order that I need them.

The key to this method is to not get too comfortable with your current level of knowledge and to always find those "walls". It is very easy to get too comfortable with a limited vocabulary and rudimentary understanding of a few tenses. You have to keep pushing yourself to that uncomfortable area where you are tongue tied. That is where the growth is.

Post: #6

I can help you with a very clear, expedited roadmap to Thai proficiency. Let's discuss over beers or a meal before you leave.

Actually your situation is ideal - you can use the time away to go hard on reading (and writing), and combined with some basic vocab study when away, you'll be in Thai hyperdrive when you get back.

1-on-1 is the way to go if you want a teacher, but 4 hours a day is overkill/not even close to worth it. Most of the gains will come from self-study, then incorporating what you've studied into spoken practice with friends/strangers - your brain remembers things it learns organically, not in teaching sessions (particularly marathon ones). Cannot hesitate when practicing with people because you're afraid of mistakes. You can keep a list of specific questions as you go along to ask your teacher in your once-weekly 1-2 hour session if you like.

2 other notes: a native speaker is key when learning the alphabet (but there are several training courses available online with them, so you don't need to hire a tutor to get this done while in USA), and you MUST focus initially on reading/writing if you are serious about Thai.

Post: #7

(07-17-2012 04:42 AM)trey Wrote:  I can help you with a very clear, expedited roadmap to Thai proficiency. Let's discuss over beers or a meal before you leave.

Mind sharing that roadmap with the rest of us?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #8

Immersion is definitely the best way, especially with a language like Thai, which I assume is much different from anything you've ever studied.

Like others have pointed out the key is motivation and your language experience. I grew up bilingual, so I picked up Spanish pretty fast. I do BJJ so sometimes my instructor speaks in Portuguese and I can understand some of it as well.

This is a handy chart that gives an overview of the difficulty of learning a language.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:L...h_Speakers

Thai seems to be in more difficult category. 4 hours a day in private lessons seems a bit much to me. I think if you did a self study course, (is there a pimsleur Thai?), already live in Thailand, and practiced everywhere you went you'd probably have a decent grasp in 3-6 months. Living in the country and being able to practice it everywhere is huge.

Post: #9

Westcoast, where do you find such skype girlfriends to give you language lessons?

Post: #10

(07-17-2012 04:42 AM)trey Wrote:  I can help you with a very clear, expedited roadmap to Thai proficiency. Let's discuss over beers or a meal before you leave.

Actually your situation is ideal - you can use the time away to go hard on reading (and writing), and combined with some basic vocab study when away, you'll be in Thai hyperdrive when you get back.

1-on-1 is the way to go if you want a teacher, but 4 hours a day is overkill/not even close to worth it. Most of the gains will come from self-study, then incorporating what you've studied into spoken practice with friends/strangers - your brain remembers things it learns organically, not in teaching sessions (particularly marathon ones). Cannot hesitate when practicing with people because you're afraid of mistakes. You can keep a list of specific questions as you go along to ask your teacher in your once-weekly 1-2 hour session if you like.

2 other notes: a native speaker is key when learning the alphabet (but there are several training courses available online with them, so you don't need to hire a tutor to get this done while in USA), and you MUST focus initially on reading/writing if you are serious about Thai.

Totally agree that one-on-one is the way to go. Especially if you get a teacher who can tailor lessons for yourself. Four hours a day is way beyond the limit of diminishing returns, though.

Depending on your immersion level, a couple of hours a week may be enough.

Post: #11

Even though Thai's listed as a more difficult language for English speakers, you shouldn't be discouraged at all as there are some things about it that can make learning easier.

For example the amount of vocabulary you need to know to be effective in reading, writing and speaking is much lower than in English. There aren't a bunch of synonyms and "difficult" words used. For example, let's say in English zeal, ardor and alacrity basically mean the same thing, but in Thai instead of using any of those words the long winded definition is just spelled out. While a Grade 6 student in America might have to look up words again and again when he's reading the New York Times, a competent Grade 6 student in Thailand can probably understand virtually every word he reads in a Thai newspaper. In fact starting in middle school they run out of practical things to teach so Thai language classes become mostly literary analysis of ancient works, Royal Thai, Thai etymology where you have to learn a bit of Pali and Sanskrit, and other stuff Thai kids will never use outside the classroom.

Prepositions can be omitted a lot of times and tenses are also simple - in Thai you can say the equivalent of "I go Thailand yesterday" and "I go Myanmar tomorrow." What IMO foreigners seem to struggle with at first is learning to distinguish between the 5 tones and not wanting to learn reading/writng as spelling can be quite difficult and the number of letters in the alphabet huge, but knowing the order is not really necessary in the later stages (about 40-50% of Thais forget it in adulthood).

I don't know much about Thai taught as a foreign language, but there are courses available in the major universities in bangkok. Chulalongkorn U. is closest to the expat areas, and incidentally IMO is the Uni with the hottest girls. (Off-topic - does anyone know other countries where the best and hardest university to get in in the country has the hottest girls?) Studying there after you get familiar with the basics through 1 on 1 instruction will also give you a good excuse to hit on the campus girls, game in the library etc which would otherwise look "creepy" if you were an outsider.

Post: #12

I did both small class and private one on one lessons for 4 hrs when I studied spanish. I actually learned more by being with the same on and off for over 2 years as we talked about everything. The private lessons help gain you experience speaking. However having one person around at night can work out a lot better. But, that gets boring in other ways.

Post: #13

There is a program in DC where they do kinda like class and interactive talk for a few hour everyday for months on end. THey have some sort of home stay with native familes also. But i cant remember the name of it. But I can imagine after like 4 months you could do some damage in the target countries. Ive been places with much less to start on and done well.

Post: #14

I had my first serious Russian lesson today in Lvov with a Babushka a friend uses, figured I would get more done if I wasn't so distracted. 2 hours long, about as long as I can concentrate, will do it three times a week. At 4 euro an hour, its a pretty sweet deal ))

Post: #15

(07-24-2012 09:52 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  I had my first serious Russian lesson today in Lvov with a Babushka a friend uses, figured I would get more done if I wasn't so distracted. 2 hours long, about as long as I can concentrate, will do it three times a week. At 4 euro an hour, its a pretty sweet deal ))

€4, that's a hell of a good deal you got there Deb. How much input have you had to the structure of the lessons? You going mostly vocab or hitting the grammar hard too? If so good luck with the case endings,a mind fuck! Download the app: Most Common 1000 Russian Words on your iPad,passes time on bus journeys etc.

Post: #16

I've studied German for almost 6 years now and consider myself conversant (still working on getting fluent). What the biggest difference for my German was going to Germany and speaking with the natives. I have a problem where I speak too fast (so the natives don't understand me). Mostly that problem is because I did not have enough experience speaking.

I went to Berlin on a school trip for a 3 day weekend in 9th grade. It didn't do much. I went to a place called Öhningen Kattenhorn, on the border between southern Germany and Switzerland for two weeks. I spoke the most German in those two weeks in my entire life because I was with a host family who spoke almost no English. My accent was really helped as well.

I went from speaking German with an American accent to speak German with a French accent, apparently.

Lastly, I recently studied abroad in Germany for a month with a group class of 3 hours a day of German 5 days a week. While the class no doubt helped, the important thing was that I was able to use the German I was learning in class right away as soon as I got outside.

Now when I speak German, people barely notice that I have an accent...but when I do it's still French.

In short, I would tell you that taking 4 hours a day in Thai is the best you can do for your language and if possible, take the classes in Thailand.

If you are able to withstand 4 hours of Thai per day, then I think you will be fluent because you have the will necessary to get there.

Post: #17

A local here told me he's seen foreigners come, fall in love, and within 3 months had 40% Spanish. Within 6 months they were above 60%. I believe it. Living with a girl that doesn't know English is gonna force you into immersion. My Spanish is plateauing. I'm spending too much time talking in English.

There's some schools here in Santo Domingo, and I've considered it, but why pay for something when you can get it for free? Also to note, make sure the girls have some intelligence. The dumber they are, the less I learn from them.

Post: #18

(07-16-2012 10:12 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  I've done group classes twice in the past. 3 months in Spain, and 1 month in Thailand. Neither time did I learn much. A large part of that is because I'm a lazy fuck, but a large part is also because I feel group classes are not a great way to learn a language. If your class has 6-8 people, you get 1/6th to 1/8th as much speaking time as you would in a private session.

I want to up my Thai speaking ability the next time I come back to BKK, and I am planning on setting aside enough cash to do 4 hours of 1on1 lessons a day, 5 days a week, for a month. In Thailand this shouldn't cost me too much. In Brazil it may be pretty expensive, but in Thailand money isn't much of an issue.

Has anyone done this before, or something similar? For those of you that have experience with both group classes and private lessons, would you say the privates are much more valuable than the group classes?

done 4 hours a day numerous times in numerous countries, done 6 hours a day for 3 months.

Group classes are a waste of time.

one on one 4 hours day and speaking outside of class and you will get good quickly.

Be prepeared to be tired, it is mentally draining and wears you out.

Also a real teacher is exponentially better than some local that doesn't know how to teach. It makes a huge difference.

People that learn the language without classes or proper teachers typically have crap grammar. They can communicate but if speak better you get more ass and more opportunities.

Post: #19

(07-24-2012 04:57 PM)redneckpunk Wrote:  

(07-16-2012 10:12 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  I've done group classes twice in the past. 3 months in Spain, and 1 month in Thailand. Neither time did I learn much. A large part of that is because I'm a lazy fuck, but a large part is also because I feel group classes are not a great way to learn a language. If your class has 6-8 people, you get 1/6th to 1/8th as much speaking time as you would in a private session.

I want to up my Thai speaking ability the next time I come back to BKK, and I am planning on setting aside enough cash to do 4 hours of 1on1 lessons a day, 5 days a week, for a month. In Thailand this shouldn't cost me too much. In Brazil it may be pretty expensive, but in Thailand money isn't much of an issue.

Has anyone done this before, or something similar? For those of you that have experience with both group classes and private lessons, would you say the privates are much more valuable than the group classes?

done 4 hours a day numerous times in numerous countries, done 6 hours a day for 3 months.

Group classes are a waste of time.

one on one 4 hours day and speaking outside of class and you will get good quickly.

Be prepeared to be tired, it is mentally draining and wears you out.

Also a real teacher is exponentially better than some local that doesn't know how to teach. It makes a huge difference.

People that learn the language without classes or proper teachers typically have crap grammar. They can communicate but if speak better you get more ass and more opportunities.

Thats dead on. If you dont, your grammar will be crap.

Post: #20

I know people are saying forget about group classes but for me personally they are much better. I studied Russian in Bishkek,did the 4 hours a day thing in a one to one with a teacher for a couple of months but I was utterly lazy and half arsed about it. I spent most of my classes hitting on my teachers and asking to watch movies instead. I had too much power over my lessons in other words and took the piss. If I had been in a group class I'd have behaved more and been inspired to study harder because of the competition between the other students in the class. It also depends how you learn best. I like to be in a group and bounce ideas around,have some banter. Solo classes for me were boring in the end.

I'm thinking of going to do a couple of months of Ukrainian in Ukraine somewhere and I'll definitely go for group classes. You get a better social scene that way too as you are in contact with other students. That is half the fun of studying languages abroad: the 'apres' class scene. In Kyrgyzstan there was a great bunch of foreigners studying in the same school as me who were a debauched bunch too. Made for poor studies but awesome memories with some cool people.

I recommend signing up for a short group class at a school as this is the cheapest option. Then if you like the school and want to continue you can sign up for longer and switch to one on one classes. Don't sign up for a 2 month course till you've visited the school and seen the lay of the land. There are lots of fly by night operators out there.

It all comes down to what you want to get out of it.