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RougeNoir · 07-20-2012 02:46 PM

In NY, I was at this bar/club and approached a chick. At the time I did not know about the concept of engaging the whole clique. Initially, I spoke exclusively to my target but when cockblocking started to happen from friends (3 friends were 7s+; solid group), I wound up naturally engaging all of them as some sort of defense mechanism asking them where they were from etc. We all went back and forth as a group for a minute. They realized I was cool and I resumed my target.

Within 20 seconds of talking to the target, she asks me to buy her a drink. I said, won't u buy me a drink and said I'm having a Long Island Iced Tea since we were in NY. She laughed and said no. I thought of what I read about push/pull and looked away while she responded to my questions. We started to dance then I stepped away to look aloof. I'm thinking, "this shit is working." Every time I leave then go back to her, she's showing more love. Thinking the cat's in the bag, I go to the other room for 5 minutes (pushing), come back, and she's talking to another dude. I say fuck it, and do not try to re-engage her and just took the L on her.

My advice: use push/pull carefully as it may backfire if too much pushing is involved.

~~HiFlo~~ · 07-20-2012 04:00 PM

Push pull has never worked for me when I leave the room. You should also figure out how to re-engage her ("re-openers") - something state based, or people based.

Chances are if she was digging you she will leave the guy stranded, otherwise she will introduce you to the guy.

RougeNoir · 07-20-2012 04:26 PM

(07-20-2012 04:00 PM)HiFlo Wrote: re-engage her ("re-openers")

How exactly do u re-engage/reopen in this instance without coming off as needy? I felt like, well there's more fish in the sea, which was true and went off to speak to women I had a lesser connection with. I did try to dance alone (I'm not a bad dancer) to sort-of peacock toward her but she did not take the bait.

~~HiFlo~~ · 07-20-2012 06:19 PM

(07-20-2012 04:26 PM)RougeNoir Wrote:
(07-20-2012 04:00 PM)HiFlo Wrote: re-engage her ("re-openers")
How exactly do u re-engage/reopen in this instance without coming off as needy? I felt like, well there's more fish in the sea, which was true and went off to speak to women I had a lesser connection with. I did try to dance alone (I'm not a bad dancer) to sort-of peacock toward her but she did not take the bait.

Opinion openers are useful re-openers too. "Hey, just spoke with my friend over there. Shes dating her best friends, exbf...I was surprised...do you that's OK?"

Roosh had a good one in bang..."God this music sucks in this place. They need to put on some real music. Madonna."

"Would you believe that someone over there just asked if I know where I can get some coke. Do I look like a drug dealer to you?"

RougeNoir · 07-20-2012 07:51 PM

Those are some good first-time openers as well. I'll try it next time but I just don't want her to get the feeling that I am being needy. Perhaps the ball was in my court since I am the one who left in the first place; I probably could have re-initiated with her. Every man wants the woman/women to chase him.

XXL · 07-21-2012 05:42 AM

(07-20-2012 02:46 PM)RougeNoir Wrote: ...Thinking the cat's in the bag, I go to the other room for 5 minutes (pushing), come back, and she's talking to another dude. I say fuck it, and do not try to re-engage her and just took the L on her.

whaaaaaaat? ahahahha

you messed things up, not push pull. she just started talking to another dude and you politely backed off like a little puppy.

RougeNoir · 07-23-2012 09:28 AM

(07-21-2012 05:42 AM)XXL Wrote: [quote='RougeNoir' pid='239684' dateline='1342813560']
you politely backed off like a little puppy.

No, I dont feel like I should have had to chase her at that moment. It was her time to want me and she did not.

XXL · 07-23-2012 11:00 AM

rookie mistake #1 - not being able to lead.

girl will NEVER EVER take resposibility for hooking up. sure she can show you some signs here and there but in the end it's up to you to step up, outgame any motherfucker on your way and take the girl you want.

if you wait for her to do something because it's her time to want you.. happy waiting.

RougeNoir · 07-23-2012 11:11 AM

My point is how to re-engage without coming off as needy? If I had gone back to re-engage her after her talking to him, she would have gained leverage and been back in control of the interaction.

~~Greek kamaki~~ · 07-23-2012 11:17 AM

You just warmed her too much and another guy took notice and came as a trailer.So he took advantage of your stirring up her emotions by push pull.That is why Ialways lower the girls temperature when I spot other guys in the periphery searching a chance to intervene.In this way she is cold to other guys because I deliberately lower her temperature.

Shamrock · 07-23-2012 11:22 AM

(07-23-2012 11:11 AM)RougeNoir Wrote: My point is how to re-engage without coming off as needy? If I had gone back to re-engage her after her talking to him, she would have gained leverage and been back in control of the interaction.

Why didn't you just start talking to other girls? If the opportunity presents itself to get back in the game take it from there. Or pull the Don Draper move...walk up and say "hey sis, it's Mom on the phone...she wants to talk to you" and pull her outside. Ballsy move but at least you'll know where you stand instead thinking of some clever re-start

XXL · 07-23-2012 01:40 PM

(07-23-2012 11:11 AM)RougeNoir Wrote: My point is how to re-engage without coming off as needy?

that's much better question.

(07-23-2012 11:11 AM)RougeNoir Wrote: If I had gone back to re-engage her after her talking to him, she would have gained leverage and been back in control of the interaction.

what? no.

the situation you described in the first post was very silly. like what, you left to the bathroom came back in and she was talking to some dude. that's what you should be doing (socializing with others) when your girl goes to the bathroom btw.

see the girl was enjoying talking to you, she was experiencing different emotions (thanks to push/pull), she was really getting warmed up to be seduced by you and then you just ignored her. you basically rejected her to you thought i would be needy? no way. how can a girl think you're needy if she enjoys talking to you.

look, that 'i will not reengage, that's needy' is only in your head. girls don't look at it that way at all. you can open and reopen same group 2-4 times no problem, it doesn't matter, it's not like the girl will count how many times you reengaged and label you as needy based on that. i do it many times and they like when i come back. if they have fun keep persisting like a motherfucker.

girl just want to have fun. and she was. then some other dude came up so why wouldn't she talk to him. she's like "oh another guy, another arousing stimulus, sweet!". they want that, they to have a night full of stimulation like drinking, dancing, talking to guys, bitching about other girls, gossiping with friends, watching the lights, etc etc. it's girls being girls. let them be and pull the trigger at the end of the night.

~~HiFlo~~ · 07-23-2012 01:59 PM

Reopening is something I have difficult with too, actually.

How do you do it XXL?

I usually rely on opinion openers (and reopeners), but this is pretty limiting. Do you do mostly situational reopeners or what?

XXL · 07-23-2012 04:04 PM

i do it 100% by feel. natural game. freestyle. spontaneity. being open & social. so..

let's say i talk to a group. as i talk to them i look around to see whether some other girls there throwing subtle signs/glances they'd like to meet me. if i see it i acknowledge them, i excuse myself ("i gotta go, til next time") and i go approach those open girl(s) i saw earlier. i talk to them, again i feel other girls glancing/perking up (it's subtle). i can wave to them as talk to this group. it subcommunicates i know them (i don't). so i say for example "wait a second i noticed my friend" and i leave to go talk to them. etc etc.

it's very stupid but effective trick, i must say, to look around and initiate eye contact or acknowledge other girls (wave, point at them playfully) as you interact with present group. it makes PU smooth as fuck (if you need it to be smooth). cause now this group you're in think you know these other girls, while these other girls you waved to know you're open friendly innocent guy therefore it will be warm approach, not cold.

and you can also warm up many girls like that before you even approach any girl properly in a classic sense. simply everytime you pass girls say something ("i dig the glasses, very distinctive" or "you kill me with this skirt" or "best hair in here" or "i will remember those eyes, see ya later" or just little innocent things that add some fun/positive vibe and warm them up to you) or when you catch eye contact with girls standing farther from you, acknowledge them with eye contact or gestures (wave, smile, point at them, reach out your hands forthem to grab you, of course they stand too far away, they can't, it's funny so do it and laugh).

you can warm up a lot of girls like that. and then when you approach a group who's familiar with you, you feel like a hard dick inside really WARM pussy already : )

ok, so now you got 3 groups opened and you can do whatever the fuck you want. keep doing it more. or reopen the first/second group.. (yo what did i miss? / hey you still don't like me? hmm.. you will / you won't believe who i just met.. but i like you better / where the hell did you dissapear?). or focus on one group/girl only. or merge them. or take #s from one group to afterparty later. or bounce with one group somewhere. you can do so much.

golden rule for opening/reopening: as long as girls enjoy your presence you can go back and forth countless times. don't worry it's needy. it's not. how could it be needy if you're cool in girls' eyes? it's impossible. girls' just like "oh he's back, sweet..".

also, never get defensive or confrontational. girls DO get stiffled and intimidated, much more than you. so be patient and forgiving. look, you're the one learning and mastering social skills that they will never develop. so just endure that innitial scepticism (if you get it) and remind yourself that it's their underdeveloped social skills that makes them react to you in a weird way.

so don't view interacting with girls as this black or white shit (like puas concerned with stats tend to do), like it's 'sex or rejection', but rather take it slow, warm up yourself and others to you and treat the night out as a marathon. start slow, smile to girls, say hi, shake hands, few spontaneous spins, chit chat, reopen (oh no! you again? come here ;D), takeaway, back and forth. and finally you meet a girl you really click with so you stay with her and you both leave the place together at the end of the night to your/her place where something can happen.

that's very cool and fun way to have a really good night and end up with hot girl at the end of it. people will love you and enjoy your company and that's exactly how you will get those afterparties, SNLs, day 2s, social circles, access to events etc.

was this helpful?

RougeNoir · 07-23-2012 04:22 PM

(07-23-2012 11:17 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote: You just warmed her too much and another guy took notice and came as a trailer.So he took advantage of your stirring up her emotions by push pull.That is why Ialways lower the girls temperature when I spot other guys in the periphery searching a chance to intervene.In this way she is cold to other guys because I deliberately lower her temperature.

How exactly do you lower the girls temperature at that point? Is it some type of portable refrigerator you carry? J/k, I think I understand where you are coming from. However, you have to walk a pretty fine line with lowering her temperature without her simultaneously losing interest.

RougeNoir · 07-23-2012 04:27 PM

(07-23-2012 04:04 PM)XXL Wrote:

golden rule for opening/reopening: as long as girls enjoy your presence you can go back and forth countless times. don't worry it's needy. it's not. how could it be needy if you're cool in girls' eyes? it's impossible. girls' just like "oh he's back, sweet..".

was this helpful?

Cool,what you said is something to take into consideration. In a different situation, perhaps after getting rejected initially, re-opening after say, 30 minutes is needy. You should never get rejected twice yada yada yada. After I warmed her up, it would not be needy. Sounds similar to what you're saying?

~~Greek kamaki~~ · 07-23-2012 04:30 PM

Yes,it is fine line.I have a general sensation of the environment.When I get that the pressure of other guys to intervene gets enormous I start cooling down the girl.When she gets close to disinterest point I keep her on mild temperature.
The other guys always watch and judge.When they see a girl super responsive they make the simple thought if she is responsive to him she will be to me as well so why not hit on known ground and risk rejection elsewhere?That is why body position in club is important(eg the other guy to approach has to stretch his neck in uncomfortable way).A lot of guys actually do exactly this they do not start approaching till other guys do the same.They take their time watch for responsive girls and come as AMOGs.So one should be competent to set them in trap.(there are other ways as well like opening sets you are not interested in so that the AMOG gets occupied with them and many complicated tactics).

~~Greek kamaki~~ · 07-23-2012 04:38 PM

Another method I use to extinct the other guys chances is to stand close to girls I have no interest to talk to while watching the girls I am interesting to talk to from a distance.When I see chance to intervene I walk fast and engage the girls away before the other guys being able to do sth to stop me.(it has happened however that sb has come after me walking fast as well and at last moment came in front of me to talk first to the girl).
When you stand close to girls the other guys suppose that you judge them as likely responsive and will try to talk to them first.So they are likely to get occupied before I make my move.If I have wings I may tell them to approach the girls we are not interested in as to concentrate the other guys attention to them for me to approach the hotties without nuisance.

XXL · 07-23-2012 04:52 PM

(07-23-2012 04:27 PM)RougeNoir Wrote:
(07-23-2012 04:04 PM)XXL Wrote:

golden rule for opening/reopening: as long as girls enjoy your presence you can go back and forth countless times. don't worry it's needy. it's not. how could it be needy if you're cool in girls' eyes? it's impossible. girls' just like "oh he's back, sweet..".

was this helpful?

Cool,what you said is something to take into consideration. In a different situation, perhaps after getting rejected initially, re-opening after say, 30 minutes is needy. You should never get rejected twice yada yada yada. After I warmed her up, it would not be needy. Sounds similar to what you're saying?

yes. fuck the rules. follow your guts. she got answers written all over her. focus on girls reactions instead of executing chess moves. even after she is not so nice to you, you can reopen later, she will have some drink(s), get loose, get more comfortable in the place, probably forget about you, it's all good. AGAIN!

also let's define rejection. cause maybe we see it different way. her standing there being all sceptic, sassy and shit is not rejection to me. she's just stiff and needs more time to warm up and loosen up. i say "ok you're kind of slow, i see you need time, til next time", smile, takeaway, harass other girls, come back later.

rejection to me is something like "go away! we don't want to talk to yo" accompanied by serious tone of voice and aggresive facial expressions. it's very clear that it's done.

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