Post: #1

Something wierd has popped up for me that I've discovered in my dates.

There is a very high correlation between if I wait for the girl to show up or if the girl shows up first in closing on that date.

The times where I've shown up first(even if I am late to the agreed time) have generally ended not so well.

Whereas if the woman has been waiting(especially waiting for a while), things just go so smoothly.

The obvious thing to note that correlation does not imply causation, it could be just that the girls were more eager(or more into you) so they showed up on time.

For me, the percentages are so high that I pretty much do anything NOT to show up first on a date anymore, including if I show up and the girl is not there yet, going to somewhere nearby and chilling, just so I can show up "late".

Anyone corroborate on this?

Post: #2

I've noticed this too, but it's not a big discovery for me. Seems like a common sense thing.

Post: #3

I'll co-sign your observation. I think her waiting sets up an unspoken power dynamic--right from the get-go--that, if you keep up, closely correlates with success. I'm routinely late, and only apologize if it's close to 30 minutes. I usually make a clearly fake excuse to make it clear that I'm not stressing about keeping her waiting.

After the arrival, leading her to a venue of your choice, directing the conversation, and other manly leadership reinforces the sort of in-control, casual vibe that put girls at ease.

Legs tend to spread when a girl is comfortable.­™

Post: #4

this obviously is common sense, but by my records, this actually is BY FAR the highest correlated predictor of closing on that date in my experience, I am surprised it is so powerful.

In fact, I am experimenting with ways(via txt message) of how to keep the girl waiting for longer(without them leaving). i think something psychologically happens to them while they are waiting for me, that far surpasses any game I can muster that helps me bang them.

Post: #5

dunno. Earlier this week I had a DATE FROM HELL where I showed up at 8:10 when the date was at 8:00. She chewed me out.

I suppose you should add her reaction to you showing up late as the predicator.

But in the end, I think the fact that you could arrange a date is a more valuable metric to your success overall than who showed up late.

Post: #6

For me it varies. Here's my take:

If you have her waiting it will put her in a more anxious mood, this can help you. On the other hand I have to weigh other factors.

For example, I've had many situations where the girl was meeting me at a place she didn't know well. A lot of times if she showed up first she would just sit in a booth. If it's an internet date and we're meeting for the first time I'm not going to just sit right next to her immediately. Sitting across from her puts a big dent in my escalation game. Also sometimes if I don't arrive at a certain time there will be no seats at the bar.

In those situations I prefer to show up a bit early, get a seat at the bar, and save one for her. I find this dynamic of sitting by side by side is much more natural and conducive to getting the bang.

With that said I've succeeded with girls in both situations.

Post: #7

If when you get there she's in a booth tell her you want to sit at the bar.

Post: #8

(07-04-2012 11:07 PM)manilatroy Wrote:  Something wierd has popped up for me that I've discovered in my dates.

There is a very high correlation between if I wait for the girl to show up or if the girl shows up first in closing on that date.

The times where I've shown up first(even if I am late to the agreed time) have generally ended not so well.

Whereas if the woman has been waiting(especially waiting for a while), things just go so smoothly.

The obvious thing to note that correlation does not imply causation, it could be just that the girls were more eager(or more into you) so they showed up on time.

For me, the percentages are so high that I pretty much do anything NOT to show up first on a date anymore, including if I show up and the girl is not there yet, going to somewhere nearby and chilling, just so I can show up "late".

Anyone corroborate on this?

No.

99% of the time I get there first to Lock Down Spots.

And that always works best.

Quote:For me, the percentages are so high that I pretty much do anything NOT to show up first on a date anymore

Maybe you should try not showing up at all?

Wouldn't that be the most PUA Alpha thing one could do?

Post: #9

Haha damn it G.

Again this is a HIGH end girl versus average girl debate.

Average girl (what he is speaking to) are used to people coddling them so yes showing up late is correct.

For high end hot girls, yeah for sure you show up early so when that bitch walks in she already knows you are the fucking G. It's a different type of game.

If you have cash, you have a nice restaurant on lock where the bartender hooks you up with drinks for free waitress hugs you etc.

He is talkin about "average guy date" in which case you show up late. High end is different, this is why I have 2 different "usual venues" if I want to drop coin to make sure I get the bang I roll the high end, if I want to save some money I go to a cheap date and show up late and practice game and venue switch a lot.

Ps: the bolded is just hilarious.

(07-05-2012 10:26 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 11:07 PM)manilatroy Wrote:  Something wierd has popped up for me that I've discovered in my dates.

There is a very high correlation between if I wait for the girl to show up or if the girl shows up first in closing on that date.

The times where I've shown up first(even if I am late to the agreed time) have generally ended not so well.

Whereas if the woman has been waiting(especially waiting for a while), things just go so smoothly.

The obvious thing to note that correlation does not imply causation, it could be just that the girls were more eager(or more into you) so they showed up on time.

For me, the percentages are so high that I pretty much do anything NOT to show up first on a date anymore, including if I show up and the girl is not there yet, going to somewhere nearby and chilling, just so I can show up "late".

Anyone corroborate on this?

No.

99% of the time I get there first to Lock Down Spots.

And that always works best.

Quote:For me, the percentages are so high that I pretty much do anything NOT to show up first on a date anymore

Maybe you should try not showing up at all?

Wouldn't that be the most PUA Alpha thing one could do?

Post: #10

I don't see the difference between high end and average guy game when it comes to showing up a bit late. Showing up late shows her that your TIME is more valuable than hers. I can imagine a high end gamer being extra late since he still had to finish up some business deal. For me as a backpacker it's less credible to say that i have unfinished business. I usually just say i couldn't find it and talk right over it wit ha big smile.

I always aim for 5 minutes later.

Post: #11

I see where you are going, let's place the two strategies next to each other, this assumes HIGH END (again average guy yes show up late)

1. I was busy closing some deals.

Versus

2. Walk in she sees everyone knows you, she sees people serving you food, you don't order - they already know why to bring, then she opens the menu and realizes it is not cheap, waitress comes and hugs you and says "so glad you're back", chef comes out and thanks you for "always comin back", next person working there comes by and tells yor girl "wow you're lucky to be on a date with this guy"...

I think you get the idea, the first option sounds like bragging "too busy.making money". Second option screams status without you saying shit. She'll be ready to bang before you even open your mouth.

Implied status.

(07-05-2012 11:16 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  I don't see the difference between high end and average guy game when it comes to showing up a bit late. Showing up late shows her that your TIME is more valuable than hers. I can imagine a high end gamer being extra late since he still had to finish up some business deal. For me as a backpacker it's less credible to say that i have unfinished business. I usually just say i couldn't find it and talk right over it wit ha big smile.

I always aim for 5 minutes later.

Post: #12

(07-05-2012 11:32 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  I see where you are going, let's place the two strategies next to each other, this assumes HIGH END (again average guy yes show up late)

1. I was busy closing some deals.

Versus

2. Walk in she sees everyone knows you, she sees people serving you food, you don't order - they already know why to bring, then she opens the menu and realizes it is not cheap, waitress comes and hugs you and says "so glad you're back", chef comes out and thanks you for "always comin back", next person working there comes by and tells yor girl "wow you're lucky to be on a date with this guy"...

I think you get the idea, the first option sounds like bragging "too busy.making money". Second option screams status without you saying shit. She'll be ready to bang before you even open your mouth.

Implied status.

(07-05-2012 11:16 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  I don't see the difference between high end and average guy game when it comes to showing up a bit late. Showing up late shows her that your TIME is more valuable than hers. I can imagine a high end gamer being extra late since he still had to finish up some business deal. For me as a backpacker it's less credible to say that i have unfinished business. I usually just say i couldn't find it and talk right over it wit ha big smile.

I always aim for 5 minutes later.

A higher Level of The Game if you will.

Post: #13

There should be some geographical mention here. In L.A., everyone is always late to everything. Showing up on time would just seem weird here.

I will heavily weigh in on arriving late. It's part of my believe that those that care least, control the most.

G, I understand you've worked out what's best for you. I think your game is probably in some sort of "fringe" or "specialized" category. I'd say for most dudes, it would display higher value to run according to his own schedule, i.e. showing up a bit late.

I would NOT blame traffic or make excuses. In fact, I wouldn't say anything at all unless she mentioned it. If a girl tries calling you out, just act pleasantly surprised, offer no apology, and simply state, "Oh, I lost track of time." If you can really pull it off, I would even make a joke out of it, "15 minutes late? You're lucky, usually I make dates wait half an hour." You need to feel her out for this though, especially if it's a first date with a new prospect.

It's important to set the tone early on.

Edited: I understand the idea of already being "in the zone" by the time she gets there. I don't see any reason you can't combine the two.

Scenario: You show up 15 minutes late (or more). She's a little miffed. But you come in, all smiles and positive vibe, kiss the hostess on the cheek, shake the bartenders hand, he asks you "The regular?" and pops down two glasses of prosecco, and you don't even need to open the menu because you already know what's on it, so you start ordering food or drinks like you own the place.

I've got a couple restaurants/bars where I can behave like this. You set down a clear choice for her. Yes, you're late, because you're a guy with shit to do, but you're also clearly living in a world that she wants to be a part of. It's her choice whether she wants in or not.

Post: #14

Yes you're still not talking high end enough. I think what G is referring to is HIGH END GIRLS. Not just a "9" that ain't shit.

High end girl:
1. Has a ton of money as well
2. Is well connected
3. DOES NOT HAVE TIME TO WASTE

You make her wait you are not pulling shit, you aren't shit and you're never going to be shit if she thinks for a second you're a loser.

Your date runs like a perfectly accurate clock.

The second solution, show up late and have everyone say hello to you and run from there works on good looking girls who are not connected/wealthy.

Showing up late for a high end girl is like showing up late for an interview

If you're early you're on time
If you're on time you're late
If you are late you are dead

Choice is yours.

(07-05-2012 02:47 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  There should be some geographical mention here. In L.A., everyone is always late to everything. Showing up on time would just seem weird here.

I will heavily weigh in on arriving late. It's part of my believe that those that care least, control the most.

G, I understand you've worked out what's best for you. I think your game is probably in some sort of "fringe" or "specialized" category. I'd say for most dudes, it would display higher value to run according to his own schedule, i.e. showing up a bit late.

I would NOT blame traffic or make excuses. In fact, I wouldn't say anything at all unless she mentioned it. If a girl tries calling you out, just act pleasantly surprised, offer no apology, and simply state, "Oh, I lost track of time." If you can really pull it off, I would even make a joke out of it, "15 minutes late? You're lucky, usually I make dates wait half an hour." You need to feel her out for this though, especially if it's a first date with a new prospect.

It's important to set the tone early on.

Edited: I understand the idea of already being "in the zone" by the time she gets there. I don't see any reason you can't combine the two.

Scenario: You show up 15 minutes late (or more). She's a little miffed. But you come in, all smiles and positive vibe, kiss the hostess on the cheek, shake the bartenders hand, he asks you "The regular?" and pops down two glasses of prosecco, and you don't even need to open the menu because you already know what's on it, so you start ordering food or drinks like you own the place.

I've got a couple restaurants/bars where I can behave like this. You set down a clear choice for her. Yes, you're late, because you're a guy with shit to do, but you're also clearly living in a world that she wants to be a part of. It's her choice whether she wants in or not.

Post: #15

(07-05-2012 01:43 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  A higher Level of The Game if you will.

Are you saying that you can lock down a place cold, i.e. first time there and then lock down a place within x minutes before the meet?

Also is there an opposite effect? once I went on a date where we venue changed to a bar that the girl had locked down from before. i.e. knew every single person working there. Went absolutely disastrously, one of the worst escalations ever...

Post: #16

(07-05-2012 11:50 PM)manilatroy Wrote:  Are you saying that you can lock down a place cold, i.e. first time there and then lock down a place within x minutes before the meet?

Insta-lock™

Quote:Also is there an opposite effect? once I went on a date where we venue changed to a bar that the girl had locked down from before. i.e. knew every single person working there. Went absolutely disastrously, one of the worst escalations ever...

That is why you pick the spot.

And that would have happened if you got there before or after her.

Right?

Post: #17

I think going out of one's way to be late is just a straight up waste of time and effort. I show up to the venue at the exact time planned. If the girl is late, I just pull up a seat at the bar next to another girl or group, or just chat with the (preferably attractive female) bartender.

When she rolls in late and sees me talking and laughing with other people, that whole stupid power game goes right out the window. Greet her with a super laid back, but warm "Oh, hey. What's up." kind of attitude when she gets there to let her know you'd be enjoying yourself whether she's early, late, or doesn't show up at all.

If you're enjoying your random conversation with the stranger, feel free to acknowledge her presence when she walks in late and continue to talk for another few seconds. Make her fucking wait.

Post: #18

Americanbk has a point here also. This is a good one for if you're late but the girl is even later there than you. We westerners see time as a line but for example in South America people see time as a cloud.

Post: #19

I've always been one of those people that shows up on time, or a bit early. I learned early on that women think it's just fine to be "fashionably late." I learned my lesson. And I dare a chick to comment on me being late, because we as men have lost so much of our lives waiting on them for one reason or another.

Post: #20

I don't think showing up late or early makes a difference.

There are other things that are way more important.

Your dress.

Your style.

Your game.

Your level of fitness.


However,
If a girl shows up late you can qualify her for it.

"Where were you?"

"Oh sorry... got caught up with something..."

"Okay... well since you're late the first round's on you."

Post: #21

(07-05-2012 03:03 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Yes you're still not talking high end enough. I think what G is referring to is HIGH END GIRLS. Not just a "9" that ain't shit.

High end girl:
1. Has a ton of money as well
2. Is well connected
3. DOES NOT HAVE TIME TO WASTE

You make her wait you are not pulling shit, you aren't shit and you're never going to be shit if she thinks for a second you're a loser.

Your date runs like a perfectly accurate clock.

The second solution, show up late and have everyone say hello to you and run from there works on good looking girls who are not connected/wealthy.

Showing up late for a high end girl is like showing up late for an interview

If you're early you're on time
If you're on time you're late
If you are late you are dead

Choice is yours.

(07-05-2012 02:47 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  There should be some geographical mention here. In L.A., everyone is always late to everything. Showing up on time would just seem weird here.

I will heavily weigh in on arriving late. It's part of my believe that those that care least, control the most.

G, I understand you've worked out what's best for you. I think your game is probably in some sort of "fringe" or "specialized" category. I'd say for most dudes, it would display higher value to run according to his own schedule, i.e. showing up a bit late.

I would NOT blame traffic or make excuses. In fact, I wouldn't say anything at all unless she mentioned it. If a girl tries calling you out, just act pleasantly surprised, offer no apology, and simply state, "Oh, I lost track of time." If you can really pull it off, I would even make a joke out of it, "15 minutes late? You're lucky, usually I make dates wait half an hour." You need to feel her out for this though, especially if it's a first date with a new prospect.

It's important to set the tone early on.

Edited: I understand the idea of already being "in the zone" by the time she gets there. I don't see any reason you can't combine the two.

Scenario: You show up 15 minutes late (or more). She's a little miffed. But you come in, all smiles and positive vibe, kiss the hostess on the cheek, shake the bartenders hand, he asks you "The regular?" and pops down two glasses of prosecco, and you don't even need to open the menu because you already know what's on it, so you start ordering food or drinks like you own the place.

I've got a couple restaurants/bars where I can behave like this. You set down a clear choice for her. Yes, you're late, because you're a guy with shit to do, but you're also clearly living in a world that she wants to be a part of. It's her choice whether she wants in or not.

What I'm getting from this description of a girl isn't just high end, it's high end AND high maintenance. I've banged girls that I'm pretty sure would be considered high end, gone on to be actresses and models and such. They required no such special handling.

For the girls you're describing that sounds like an heiress or some high society girl. Or just a 6 that thinks she's a 10.

Post: #22

Bolded is spot on.

(07-07-2012 07:46 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(07-05-2012 03:03 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Yes you're still not talking high end enough. I think what G is referring to is HIGH END GIRLS. Not just a "9" that ain't shit.

High end girl:
1. Has a ton of money as well
2. Is well connected
3. DOES NOT HAVE TIME TO WASTE

You make her wait you are not pulling shit, you aren't shit and you're never going to be shit if she thinks for a second you're a loser.

Your date runs like a perfectly accurate clock.

The second solution, show up late and have everyone say hello to you and run from there works on good looking girls who are not connected/wealthy.

Showing up late for a high end girl is like showing up late for an interview

If you're early you're on time
If you're on time you're late
If you are late you are dead

Choice is yours.

(07-05-2012 02:47 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  There should be some geographical mention here. In L.A., everyone is always late to everything. Showing up on time would just seem weird here.

I will heavily weigh in on arriving late. It's part of my believe that those that care least, control the most.

G, I understand you've worked out what's best for you. I think your game is probably in some sort of "fringe" or "specialized" category. I'd say for most dudes, it would display higher value to run according to his own schedule, i.e. showing up a bit late.

I would NOT blame traffic or make excuses. In fact, I wouldn't say anything at all unless she mentioned it. If a girl tries calling you out, just act pleasantly surprised, offer no apology, and simply state, "Oh, I lost track of time." If you can really pull it off, I would even make a joke out of it, "15 minutes late? You're lucky, usually I make dates wait half an hour." You need to feel her out for this though, especially if it's a first date with a new prospect.

It's important to set the tone early on.

Edited: I understand the idea of already being "in the zone" by the time she gets there. I don't see any reason you can't combine the two.

Scenario: You show up 15 minutes late (or more). She's a little miffed. But you come in, all smiles and positive vibe, kiss the hostess on the cheek, shake the bartenders hand, he asks you "The regular?" and pops down two glasses of prosecco, and you don't even need to open the menu because you already know what's on it, so you start ordering food or drinks like you own the place.

I've got a couple restaurants/bars where I can behave like this. You set down a clear choice for her. Yes, you're late, because you're a guy with shit to do, but you're also clearly living in a world that she wants to be a part of. It's her choice whether she wants in or not.

What I'm getting from this description of a girl isn't just high end, it's high end AND high maintenance. I've banged girls that I'm pretty sure would be considered high end, gone on to be actresses and models and such. They required no such special handling.

For the girls you're describing that sounds like an heiress or some high society girl. Or just a 6 that thinks she's a 10.

Post: #23

(07-05-2012 02:47 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  Scenario: You show up 15 minutes late (or more). She's a little miffed. But you come in, all smiles and positive vibe, kiss the hostess on the cheek, shake the bartenders hand, he asks you "The regular?" and pops down two glasses of prosecco, and you don't even need to open the menu because you already know what's on it, so you start ordering food or drinks like you own the place.

I've got a couple restaurants/bars where I can behave like this. You set down a clear choice for her. Yes, you're late, because you're a guy with shit to do, but you're also clearly living in a world that she wants to be a part of. It's her choice whether she wants in or not.

This works extremely well. The younger and/or less sophisticated she is, the better it works.

This is why I'm constantly cultivating the staff at the three most upscale places in my town.
Pull this off with panache and in many cases the bang is yours to lose.

That said, I meet girls at all sorts of places and depending on circumstances and my mood, I may show up early or late.

Of course, i never give any real explanation or apology to her for why I was early or late.

Post: #24

Is this even an issue? Show up when it's most convenient for you. It doesn't matter if you're early or late or who is waiting. What matters most is that you're relaxed.

Post: #25

I always left my house the time the date was set. On one girl I got lost and had to call her for directions. She became my gf too.

I kept being late on one chick so many times that when we parted ways she told me as a joke that if I arrived early she would get back with me, I got there one minute before the scheduled time and she was shocked I made early. 10 minutes later we were banging.