Post: #1

I have mixed feelings about this. NYC is talking about banning restaurants from selling large sodas and sugary drinks. I know San Francisco banned McDonalds from selling Happy Meals with toys in them to discourage kids from eating them to get the toy.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/31/ne...gar-drinks

On one hand, I am sick of seeing fat people everywhere. I just had to pick something up from Target tonight and I was just looking at people walking around. EVERYONE was fat. Even many young kids. The worse is when you see a fat girl who has a cute face and you know if this chic were 100 pounds less she'd be pretty hot. What a waste. It's ridiculous. On the other hand, does the government have the right to tell restaurants what size soda they can sell? I can see the argument both way, but it does sound a bit too intrusive of government micromanaging what's on restaurant menus.

Thoughts? How much right does the government have to fight obesity?

Post: #2

The more time passes, the more I think - if the government doesn't, who will?

Without the government, when you have just a culture war between fatties and reasonable people, the fatties are winning. It's scary how powerful and moving the "it's my genetics/thyroid/illness" is, compared to some boring studies that clearly show that losing weight is related to exercise and calories restrictions. People are not (entirely) rational beings, and are thus more influenced by these appeals to emotion - what they want to believe - than hard data. I've recently had several people heatedly dismiss my arguments by saying "it's not legitimate medical literature", when I was quoting The Lancet. Sure, they were imbeciles and entirely wrong, but I have no doubt that they influenced more people than I did.

In short, the fatties' guns have ten times the caliber of ours. If the government doesn't save us (by fighting obesity, removing the possibility of lawsuits/discrimination for saying someone is fat, and shredding being fat over and over in the media), I ask... who will?

Post: #3

If it is acceptable for them to regulate the food we put into our bodies then where does it stop?? Started with drugs...moved onto food, which is just in the beginning stages...what's next?

Post: #4

Would the government be anyway effective at fighting obesity? Have they been very effective at preventing pot smoking?

A lot of the crap that people eat nowadays are provided through the SNAP program and the USDA. Why? Because we subsidize the production of too much corn.

The fat problem has two main sources:
1. Housing and development in the U.S is planned around the automobile. You don't see that in Europe because those cities are hundreds of years old and gas is crazy expensive to begin with. There isn't too much we can do about it, but on the bright side the big-ass-shopping-center 10 miles away from the nearest residential property way of planning is rapidly declining.

2. A serious lack of social shaming. Somewhere along the waistline, it became wrong to make fat people feel bad about their lack of self control. This is the part that we can help fix.

Post: #5

In the 50s, a bottle of regular coke was 6ozs. As aluminum became more available, it switched to the 12oz can. I guess sometime in the late 60s or early 70s they switched to the 16oz glass bottle, and then in the late 90s, we got the 20oz plastic bottle. So over the past 60 years, we've seen a "package" for Coca-Cola more than triple in size. And back in the 50s I'd bet the average American did 3X as much or more physical activity as they do now.

Conservative estimates put US healthcare costs at around $.25/dollar and they're rising primarily as a result of obesity. Years ago the anti-tobacco lobby said that tobacco usage was driving up the costs of healthcare, and governments wasted no time increasing the taxes on tobacco products. I am generally opposed to bans on most things. What I think might be better is a 100% tax on sodas over 12ozs.

Post: #6

(06-12-2012 02:38 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  Thoughts? How much right does the government have to fight obesity?

In theory, we are the government since we elect government officials to represent us. I think we should be involved in fostering healthier lifestyles. As far as enacting regulations/legislation to change behavior, I think it can work it the people support it. If not, people have the option to vote out bad decision makers. Collectively, we usually wind up paying one way or another.

Post: #7

Yes, of course.

While nanny state government is bad, mass obesity is infinitely worse. The lesser of two evils.

Post: #8

(06-12-2012 04:31 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(06-12-2012 02:38 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  Thoughts? How much right does the government have to fight obesity?

In theory, we are the government since we elect government officials to represent us. I think we should be involved in fostering healthier lifestyles. As far as enacting regulations/legislation to change behavior, I think it can work it the people support it. If not, people have the option to vote out bad decision makers. Collectively, we usually wind up paying one way or another.

Really or was it the big food corps that got what they wanted out the elected Govt.

Govt was complicit in making Americas fat by heavily subsidizing shitty food and the shitty lifestyles Americans call normal. The American Way of Life ™ was not created through war and the rise of America as many would think. It was cooked up in a New York Marketing firm, probably by Don Draper or some shit. It was a gimmick created in the 50's to make Americans spend all there money they had burning in their pockets. Companies then raced to flood the markets with as much crap as they could create. Once they hijacked Govt into changing the game for them and make it easier to monopolize and compete all hell broke loose as did waistlines.

The Sedentary lifestyle and cheap crap we're all crafted by policy. govt for example they made HFCS and Soybeans dirt cheap. Far flung homes in the boonies was Govt policy too as they rammed freeways everywhere and scrapped trolleys and trams to make GM, Chrysler, and Ford happy.

So they way I see it they are just fixing their mistakes. Only issue is that they are limiting your ability to consume crap, not limiting the crap all together.

Ban HFCS, that crap is not needed. Force companies to use real sugar. American's ate way worse in the 50's and 60's but ate mostly real food not chemicals and shitty bumper crops.

But I do agree with this move especially on a local level. The burden of higher health costs will be mostly felt on a City level with budgets they can't shore up like a State can. Taxpayers will be on the hook for Fat Monica whom can't stop eating hot dogs and drinking cola.

Post: #9

I really don't see why government would be necessary. This is utopian thinking and it will be that kind of thinking and ignorance of its implicit dangers to individual freedom that will destroy the West. Not fat people. If you invite government to take over this aspect of your life, you will not be given control over it back. Simple experience and logic tells you this.

Nor do I see why it should bother anyone if your neighbor is a fat-ass. The externality stops at their ugliness. Unless you have to pay for their grotesque dimensions through your tax-payer dollars. If so, the solution is to vote for less government. Easy.

Even rudimentary evolutionary psychology will convince you being fat severely limits your options, no matter whatever lies you tell yourself. The distortion of those consequences comes when government or government initiatives subsidize being fat. Again, that is because of too much government, not too little.

Let private insurance companies factor in the cost of your fattiness into your insurance premium. Nietzsche-like ideas of a nation of übermenschen and hotties is a stupid adolescent sex-fantasy and you should just grow up. If a bitch wants to be fat, let her be fat. So what if it insults your sensitive street-view.

The more fat girls there are, the higher the marginal benefit of being skinny and fit will be, the greater the incentive for a fat bitch to lose the pounds.

Let people be fat if they want, and let the true cost of that choice be reflected entirely without distortion from even more government mingling. Government mingling never does any good, because it's not a single, altruistic entity that makes impartial, objective decisions. It's full of interest-groups, power-mad and hungry megalomaniacs who love to be righteous do-gooders and would grab any chance to meddle in your lives. If you want them to interfere, let them interfere in YOUR life, but do not make that decisions for all citizens. I would not for a second let anyone on this forum have a say in how I run my life, because I reckon I do it better either way. Yet you're advocating that we've reached a point where taking away people's freedom of choice is necessary.

There's only one duty and one right in this world. The right to do whatever you damn well please, and the duty to take the consequences. Government just decouples the consequences from the action, so you end getting more retarded behavior than before. Not less.

Post: #10

Of course they can. Pull the plug on corn subsidies and those sugary drink prices will fall in line. Subsidies continue to make unhealthy food cheap.

The American government doesn't care about its people. They let you eat "pink slime" for fucks sake. Thankfully these things are still banned up here and in the UK.

Post: #11

I think the government has a responsibility to fight obesity especially since they are financing healthcare for some of the people who are most affected by it.

A lot of the food in the grocery store just shouldn't exist. What kind of nutritional value is in a cheetoh?

Obesity is a social problem and as a society we need to band together to deal with it.

Why should it be cheaper to live on junk food than healthy food? I'm not talking economics here, I'm just talking in terms of common sense. We should tax it, but not put that money in the treasury, put that money directly into subsidizing healthy foods or healthcare.

The fact that people with problems like overeating and drug abuse are still around proves the point that you can't just tell them to do whatever the fuck they want, and hope that they breed themselves out of existence.

Countries that don't have this culture of excess and the money to go with it aren't experiencing obesity on this magnitude so they don't have to come up with laws like this. I think we do.

Post: #12

(06-12-2012 02:38 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  Thoughts? How much right does the government have to fight obesity?

Zero.

I can't believe people are saying yes.

They take away food, then smoking, then drinking, then boxing, then surfing, then sex.

Then then outlaw Custom Suits.

Then they make guys dress like girls and wear skinny jeans and glittery shirts.

The gov needs to stay out of personal lives.

Post: #13

I'm agreeing with GManifesto here.

It is none of my business what government officials eat in their private time, it is none of theirs what I eat.

I'm not obese, but I have the same right to food as other people. What they do with it is none of my business.
I love cheeseburgers, and I don't feel it is fair that I'm taxed more for that (It all comes down to money in the end) because some fatties can't help themselves when cake is in the room.

Post: #14

Everyone has good points here. I think there should be more health education. It needs to start with the kids. My mom works at a chocolate/ice cream shop she says obese mothers come in and reward their kids with double scoops of ice cream, fat women say 'im being so bad' and buy 4 chocolate bars for themselves its depressing. Teach children that eating nothing but mcdonalds is a horrible life decision. Teach basic nutrition and where food comes from. However you can't just force this on kids or you're just forcing them to think a certain way. People have to learn for themselves what is right and what is wrong. We shouldn't be forced to eat a certain way. If someone is obese and they truly want to change they will find a way or they will die. Its just like us and game. We all weren't satisfied with our sex lives so we sought out ways to improve. That makes us strong and that makes us better than the rest.

Post: #15

(06-12-2012 02:38 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  I just had to pick something up from Target tonight and I was just looking at people walking around. EVERYONE was fat.

Is Target the capitol of fatness? Do they give fat ladies free things that we just don't know about?

They got Target in Hawaii now. You can't go there without almost feeling sick. What I noticed is that right in front, they have at least 20 of the motorized scooter carts for the fat people that don't want to burn any calories while they shop. Target knows the fatties are coming.

(06-12-2012 02:38 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  Thoughts? How much right does the government have to fight obesity?

I think the government should control what people buy with food stamps. I think that 15% of Americans get food assistance. If you look at the states that get the most food stamps, you'll see that those are also the states with the most fat people.

If the government is gonna feed so many people why not feed them healthy food? Why are they subsidizing Funyans?

Other than that, that's all the government should control. Why? Because they are paying for it. If you see some fat guy at Burger King getting the double whopper, what can you say about it? Nothing because he's paying for it.

If some fat lady is at 7-11 getting 5 Spam Musubi's with her EBT card, that's a problem.

Aloha!

Post: #16

But don't you agree that Govt is at fault for starting this mess in the first place, so it should fix it?

You don't have much freedom of choice in regards to food in America it is all mostly crap. In Europe (outside of the UK) the people revolt against shitty food. In places like Spain, France, Italy people refuse to eat shitty food. In North America we just take it.

Post: #17

(06-12-2012 08:27 AM)Blunt Wrote:  I think the government has a responsibility to fight obesity especially since they are financing healthcare for some of the people who are most affected by it.

A lot of the food in the grocery store just shouldn't exist. What kind of nutritional value is in a cheetoh?

Obesity is a social problem and as a society we need to band together to deal with it.

Why should it be cheaper to live on junk food than healthy food? I'm not talking economics here, I'm just talking in terms of common sense. We should tax it, but not put that money in the treasury, put that money directly into subsidizing healthy foods or healthcare.

The fact that people with problems like overeating and drug abuse are still around proves the point that you can't just tell them to do whatever the fuck they want, and hope that they breed themselves out of existence.

Countries that don't have this culture of excess and the money to go with it aren't experiencing obesity on this magnitude so they don't have to come up with laws like this. I think we do.

You have way way, way too much trust in the government... Lets not forget they have been raiding whole food stores all over CA.. destroying their food... dumping the raw milk.

If it started with drugs and they cant even keep that out of prisons(lol failure)and has now moved into the beginning stages of food... tell me where it stops? Where is the line drawn?? Once we started letting them regulate ANYTHING we put in our body the can of worms was opened.

If you really believe they should have the right to take away my tasty delicious Cheetos then your crazy. lol

But seriously... research the syphilis they tested on blacks in the 1930s-1970s. When you see shit like that less than 100 years ago does that make you feel like they are looking out for you?

Post: #18

The government could combat obesity by not subsidizing the industry and practices that produce the majority of junk food. The "fighting the obesity epidemic" legislation that slaps the wrist of Big Gulp enthusiasts is just a dog and pony show.

Post: #19

If you agree to pissing your rights down the drain, like some of you do, then anytime your rights are violated you have no room to complain. When the social class gives a power to the government it almost never is given back. There is a pretty decent book written by Albert Jay Nock called "Our Enemy, The State".. written in the 30s, its a pretty quick read.

Post: #20

Quote:The gov needs to stay out of personal lives.

This. Idk why people think they gov't knows what better for us than we do.
My anti-Bloomberg bias aside this ban still makes no sense. Example:


After the ban a McDonald's can't serve me a 32 OZ coke(310 calories) but I can buy a 32 oz milkshake with 1110 calories since it only covers soda and energy drinks...Oh yeah, I can still buy two 16 OZ cokes.

The gov't doesn't care if you 550 lbs. They care b/c they need to create wider bus seats, reinforced toilets and increase health risks= $$$$.

Post: #21

(06-12-2012 02:46 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

(06-12-2012 08:27 AM)Blunt Wrote:  I think the government has a responsibility to fight obesity especially since they are financing healthcare for some of the people who are most affected by it.

A lot of the food in the grocery store just shouldn't exist. What kind of nutritional value is in a cheetoh?

Obesity is a social problem and as a society we need to band together to deal with it.

Why should it be cheaper to live on junk food than healthy food? I'm not talking economics here, I'm just talking in terms of common sense. We should tax it, but not put that money in the treasury, put that money directly into subsidizing healthy foods or healthcare.

The fact that people with problems like overeating and drug abuse are still around proves the point that you can't just tell them to do whatever the fuck they want, and hope that they breed themselves out of existence.

Countries that don't have this culture of excess and the money to go with it aren't experiencing obesity on this magnitude so they don't have to come up with laws like this. I think we do.

You have way way, way too much trust in the government... Lets not forget they have been raiding whole food stores all over CA.. destroying their food... dumping the raw milk.

If it started with drugs and they cant even keep that out of prisons(lol failure)and has now moved into the beginning stages of food... tell me where it stops? Where is the line drawn?? Once we started letting them regulate ANYTHING we put in our body the can of worms was opened.

If you really believe they should have the right to take away my tasty delicious Cheetos then your crazy. lol

But seriously... research the syphilis they tested on blacks in the 1930s-1970s. When you see shit like that less than 100 years ago does that make you feel like they are looking out for you?

I see your point, but government regulation isn't always a bad thing.

I'll give you an example. This super-gonorrhea bug that is now going around North America, it exists because partly because doctors over-prescribe antibiotics in the states, but more likely because people can buy whatever antibiotics they want in other countries. People taking antibiotics without seeing a doctor to tell them how to properly take them leads to problems like this. This happens even when people see a doctor because people are idiots, but I'd bet less frequently than in situations where no one is reminding you to take all the damn pills.

And one more, the antibiotics that will be needed to defeat this superbug don't make money for pharmaceutical companies. You take antibiotics and then you don't need them anymore, they're bad for business. So if the market was completely free, people who catch the bug would be screwed. So subsidization is needed.

I realize that I'm thinking in idealistic terms about a food tax that leads to people not stuffing their faces with garbage, or at least funding proper health care for the lower class, but the situation that we have currently is certainly not ideal. If they want to eat junk fine, but it makes more sense to tax the junk then take money away from the healthcare system to pay for their bypass surgeries.

Post: #22

The government is already largely responsible for obesity:

1) corn subsidies have made corn (and corn sugar) the go-to commodity

2) in the 1970s the government touted lowfat diets as ideal, despite overwhelmingly evidence that lowcarb diets are significantly healthier. Government education programs, subsidies, and health marketing has reinforced this thru present day.

3) Public school cafeterias offer unhealthy menus (hi carb/sugar, hi calories).

4) government-backed health care/FDA seeks NOT to treat the cause, but to treat the symptoms with pharmaceuticals. Don't treat WHY we got fat, but treat all the cardiac, cholesterol, and related problems to fatness instead.

Since govt policies and regulations already is a dominant CAUSE for obesity, should they reverse their stance and try to DECREASE obesity? Yes, of course. But will they? Smoke & mirrors...

Post: #23

(06-12-2012 02:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  In Europe (outside of the UK) the people revolt against shitty food. In places like Spain, France, Italy people refuse to eat shitty food. In North America we just take it.

Very untrue. When I spent time in Europe, McDonalds are always packed, same with other fast food joints. The bread, rice and spaghetti diet prevalent in the Mediterranean also is far from ideal. One might argue that the European diet has become shitty due to "Americanization" but to claim that the European diet is healthy is false.

I also remember most men and women to be skinny-fat there, which is a symptom of the trad diets.

Post: #24

On a sidenote, saw this interesting vid of a 75 year old female body builder who is in incredible shape for someone her age. She can run way more miles than me.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/this-75-yea...n-probably

Post: #25

One could argue that what the U.S government has had some success in combating obesity, American women and children haven't been getting any more obese for the last 10 years: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/health/14obese.html

The government should subsidize weight loss pills and fund research into related drugs that would help fat people shed weight (magically?). I personally don't see the West being thin again until fat people start taking magic weight loss pills en-mass.

An easily implementable solution however is banning junk food in school canteens, because it halves the childhood obesity rate which has the flow on effect of slashing the obesity rate of young women...