Post: #1251

(02-24-2019 12:04 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  To be fair for the case against Maduro, the issue with the election is that Maduro had various legal cases brought to disqualify, imprison, or force into exile all of his popular, organized opponents , not that the count in the eventual election wasn't accurate.
Out of the Putin playbook

OK, but you still have the option of not voting for him, or voting for whoever is running against him. In absolute terms, Maduro got a solid mandate through the ballot box. And why the hell did Guiado boycott the elections? He wasn't prevented from running. Perhaps he knew he wasn't going to win.


I've changed my mind on Venezuela after doing the research. Chavez' record on the economy is actually pretty decent. Granted he's no Hjlamar Schacht, but there is no doubt that his country overall did OK under him, and the bottom half in particular did very well, poverty rates went way down under Chavez. That's a fairly obvious fact if you bother to look at the data.



Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

Oh, and fuck little Marco and the foamboat party he rode in, that neocon POS is about as compromised a politician as they come.

https://redice.tv/news/did-marco-rubio-a...am-parties

Post: #1252

Mainstream media in Europe is having a hard time getting behind this coup. They try of course, but there are enough marxists left in european media, that they have a problem toppling a leader of socialist utopia, particularly one in the tradition of that handsome Che Guevara.

This thing is really a jewish ploy out of the 1980s. Times have changed. This won't look good. I just heard people on mainstream media dissecting the strategy of Trump's "humanitarian aid" and how it was just meant to provoke a reaction.

My prediction: Maduro won't step down, there will be no invasion and Trump will take a big personal hit and look like a loser. Perhaps being seen as a bumbling W. like buffoon will get him to throw out Javanka and the jews.

Post: #1253

Quote:Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

OR, it's a common feature of bloated socialist mastodons to eventually implode in a spectacular fashion, because bloated socialist policies eventually result in chickens coming home to roost, whether these policies are run by a "benevolent prime minister" like Chavez or a "brutal dictator" like Maduro. For an example just check out Yugoslavia, which inevitably experienced tremendous hyperinflation/shortages and eventually collapsed despite its favorable position, fairly moderate socialism and a ton of foreign aid/remittances.

And in regards to US sanctions, there is much more to the world than US. Go trade with Russia, China, Latin America, Africa and Asia instead of blaming it on a country 1000 miles away.

Post: #1254

(02-24-2019 01:04 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

OR, it's a common feature of bloated socialist mastodons to eventually implode in a spectacular fashion, because bloated socialist policies eventually result in chickens coming home to roost, whether these policies are run by a "benevolent prime minister" like Chavez or a "brutal dictator" like Maduro. For an example just check out Yugoslavia, which inevitably experienced tremendous hyperinflation/shortages and eventually collapsed despite its favorable position, fairly moderate socialism and a ton of foreign aid/remittances.

And in regards to US sanctions, there is much more to the world than US. Go trade with Russia, China, Latin America, Africa and Asia instead of blaming it on a country 1000 miles away.

Venezuela has a mixed economy, with a large private sector:



^^^^This is not Tito's economy.

Post: #1255

The price of oil tripled from $35 to $105 from 2004 to 2009. Also, your graph stops in 2011, but if it continued on, it would show the GDP coming all the way back down to 2004 levels after the oil prices came back down to Earth.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...cators.png

Chavez did not effectively manage the economy to produce rapid economic growth. He took advantage of a short term spike in oil prices, and in the process, he bleed the oil industry dry and ran the country into the ground.

Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs! He could hardly have been more destructive with the economy than he was.

(02-24-2019 12:35 PM)911 Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 12:04 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  To be fair for the case against Maduro, the issue with the election is that Maduro had various legal cases brought to disqualify, imprison, or force into exile all of his popular, organized opponents , not that the count in the eventual election wasn't accurate.
Out of the Putin playbook

OK, but you still have the option of not voting for him, or voting for whoever is running against him. In absolute terms, Maduro got a solid mandate through the ballot box. And why the hell did Guiado boycott the elections? He wasn't prevented from running. Perhaps he knew he wasn't going to win.


I've changed my mind on Venezuela after doing the research. Chavez' record on the economy is actually pretty decent. Granted he's no Hjlamar Schacht, but there is no doubt that his country overall did OK under him, and the bottom half in particular did very well, poverty rates went way down under Chavez. That's a fairly obvious fact if you bother to look at the data.



Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

Oh, and fuck little Marco and the foamboat party he rode in, that neocon POS is about as compromised a politician as they come.

https://redice.tv/news/did-marco-rubio-a...am-parties

Post: #1256

All of Chavez's economic policies were based on the idea that oil prices would remain high forever. He failed to diversify the Venezuelan economy, and when Oil prices came back down the economy naturally tanked. You can't support socialist programs forever. Especially when your government suddenly stops getting revenue from its most important industry.

No sympathy for Maduro, but the seeds of all this were laid before he even came into office.

Post: #1257

You're not taking into account tools that were used to make their economy crater, like speculation on their currency, economic sabotage and tougher trade sanctions. Whatever the issues their economy had to start with are going to be greatly exacerbated by that kind of outside interference.

Point is, fomenting civil war is not going to make their economy any better. I don't think the US will intervene militarily, because there would be a half million armed chavistas and nationalists fighting back, but there will be further chaos and economic difficulties from the foreign-funded instability.

Post: #1258

(02-24-2019 02:36 PM)DChambers Wrote:  All of Chavez's economic policies were based on the idea that oil prices would remain high forever. He failed to diversify the Venezuelan economy, and when Oil prices came back down the economy naturally tanked. You can't support socialist programs forever. Especially when your government suddenly stops getting revenue from its most important industry.

No sympathy for Maduro, but the seeds of all this were laid before he even came into office.

Maduro appears to have gotten stuck with the fallout of Chavez's mess due to a poverty of other men who could step up. Dude would probably be much more satisfied in life if he could have continued on as the big dog in the bus driver social club.

The most relevant historical parallel is likely Spain's Franco. All indications are Franco very much wanted to do anything other than get stuck with the job of keeping recently entitled derps from driving the country straight into the shitter.

Maduro struggles in the ways he does because delivering steering input to a country is more complicated than doing so with a bus. Where he does well is the result of being an alpha male acting as an alpha male, unlike Macron/Obama/Merkel/Javanka.

On the world stage there is a growing divide between countries with masculine governments functioning according to their national interest: Russia, Turkey, Italy, Hungary, Vzla, China, Iran, Belarus, etc

While on the other side are dysfunctional countries and international groups with feminine governments: US, EU, Sweden, Obama's Nation of Africa.

Other countries aren't as clearly aligned, but the functional side of the split has become more attractive than the dysfunctional side.

Post: #1259

Marco Rubio posting pictures of Gadaffi and implying that he wants to do to Venezeula what we did to Libya.

That foamboy faggot had better not get what he wants.

Post: #1260

Marco would be thrown off a building by those same guys if they knew he was a homosexual and they had the chance.

Post: #1261

(02-24-2019 06:39 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Marco Rubio posting pictures of Gadaffi and implying that he wants to do to Venezeula what we did to Libya.

That foamboy faggot had better not get what he wants.

I checked... This is a real tweet from a politician. These sadistic war mongering fucks don't even hide it anymore.

Post: #1262

Why doesn't Maduro order the arrest of Guiado?

Also, journalist Max Blumenthal went to Caracas and found out that supermarkets are fully stocked

https://www.rt.com/news/452158-blumentha...t-shelves/

Post: #1263

(02-24-2019 12:35 PM)911 Wrote:  

Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course.

Venezuela's economy tanked for the same reason Saudi Arabia's economy will tank when the oil runs out.



Notice anything in common between the Venezuela GDP and crude oil prices around 2002?

Venezuela's government did exactly the same thing that most dumb governments do: overspent a commodities boom.

Oh, and this thing?



Read the source. It's Fox News as at the year 2010, you know, back before Maduro went and nationalised most of the country's crucial resources, i.e., food.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #1264

Agree with this.

Post: #1265

(02-24-2019 07:16 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Why doesn't Maduro order the arrest of Guiado?

Also, journalist Max Blumenthal went to Caracas and found out that supermarkets are fully stocked

https://www.rt.com/news/452158-blumentha...t-shelves/

RT is a leftist newsmedia. That shit is staged. There are 2.000.000 Venezuelans in Colombia! And my country is a shithole, I don't feel bad admitting we are pretty fucked up! And guess what, Those venezuelans are better off in here than in Venezuela. It's like the colombian dream to them. They are literally thankful they can go eat empanadas and go to the grocery store. Go figure how things are in venezuela. I have not so close venezuelan family who arrived here three years ago and left their properties and belongings to earn a 200 USD a month and have some better future in here. I used to work with an ex-supreme court lawyer from venezuela who was taking calls in a call center earning 300 USD a month. Bussiness men, doctors, lawyers, highly educated people are coming and literally working in low-paying jobs. I feel like an american now lol. You can even get a hot venezuela girl to fuck you for 10 or 8 USD so she can send some money to her family back. I don't want a full scale war near my country but I don't know if venezuela can turn into a small North Korea if we keep maduro in power. I don't know if that retarded comunist regime can give in peacefully. Socialism is EVIL.

Post: #1266

(02-24-2019 01:27 PM)911 Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 01:04 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

OR, it's a common feature of bloated socialist mastodons to eventually implode in a spectacular fashion, because bloated socialist policies eventually result in chickens coming home to roost, whether these policies are run by a "benevolent prime minister" like Chavez or a "brutal dictator" like Maduro. For an example just check out Yugoslavia, which inevitably experienced tremendous hyperinflation/shortages and eventually collapsed despite its favorable position, fairly moderate socialism and a ton of foreign aid/remittances.

And in regards to US sanctions, there is much more to the world than US. Go trade with Russia, China, Latin America, Africa and Asia instead of blaming it on a country 1000 miles away.

Venezuela has a mixed economy, with a large private sector:



^^^^This is not Tito's economy.

It's not, but:

A) This is from 2010, just a few years after Chavez started the socialist project in 2007 and Maduro continued driving it. For example, in 2010 and 2011 Maduro started confiscating oil rigs, a far more severe move than simply buying out some companies like in 2007, so there's no way this chart reflects those events.

B) If we have all been wrong about Venezuela all along and it's actually a free market economy similar to Norway, why do all the world's socialists hail it as an example and its ruling party is called Socialist?

Post: #1267

(02-24-2019 07:43 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote:  I don't want a full scale war near my country but I don't know if venezuela can turn into a small North Korea if we keep maduro in power. I don't know if that retarded comunist regime can give in peacefully. Socialism is EVIL.

Socialism isn't inherently evil, it just requires an ethnically homogeneous, high trust, high average IQ population, like Japan, Germany, or Scandinavian countries. Socialism also needs to be combined with nationalism to be successful, or you get the case of modern Europe subsidizing their own invaders.

In any case, the current situation in Venezuela has nothing to do with American interests. There is no real "American foreign policy" as long as the U.S. government remains under Zionist occupation. All of this isn't being done for the American people, ultimately its being done for the benefit of someone else -- ZOG. With that in mind it is hard to see any reason to support another dumb intervention that just serves the interest of ZOG.

Post: #1268

Love the people posting graphs, stats and what not about the Venezuelan economy.

Did I miss the posts about the 80 000% inflation in 2018 and the fact it could hit 1 000 000% in 2019? Or the GDP growth for the last years? -6.0% (2015), -16.5% (2016),
-14.5% (2017e), -14.3% (2018f).

Never seen so much people scared that socialism would be crushed than on this thread. Now we also have posters saying it's actually a jewish plot against Maduro that's new. In fact why not do a two for one? Cubans are fed up to the neck also, I went on vacation there and poor people were telling me they can't eat meat, chicken, only rice and beans. Such a beautiful country with beautiful people, ruined by socialism. Reminds me of Venezuela.

Post: #1269

Yeah, that's what everybody is scared of. Socialism being crushed.

Not another Iraq or Afghanistan, wasting lives and billions of dollars, we're all big fans of socialism and worried that it will "crushed".

Post: #1270

(02-24-2019 07:43 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 07:16 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Why doesn't Maduro order the arrest of Guiado?

Also, journalist Max Blumenthal went to Caracas and found out that supermarkets are fully stocked

https://www.rt.com/news/452158-blumentha...t-shelves/

RT is a leftist newsmedia. That shit is staged. There are 2.000.000 Venezuelans in Colombia! And my country is a shithole, I don't feel bad admitting we are pretty fucked up! And guess what, Those venezuelans are better off in here than in Venezuela. It's like the colombian dream to them. They are literally thankful they can go eat empanadas and go to the grocery store. Go figure how things are in venezuela. I have not so close venezuelan family who arrived here three years ago and left their properties and belongings to earn a 200 USD a month and have some better future in here. I used to work with an ex-supreme court lawyer from venezuela who was taking calls in a call center earning 300 USD a month. Bussiness men, doctors, lawyers, highly educated people are coming and literally working in low-paying jobs. I feel like an american now lol. You can even get a hot venezuela girl to fuck you for 10 or 8 USD so she can send some money to her family back. I don't want a full scale war near my country but I don't know if venezuela can turn into a small North Korea if we keep maduro in power. I don't know if that retarded comunist regime can give in peacefully. Socialism is EVIL.

Lonewolf1992, i admire your intentions, but arguing with some people in this forum that took the "USA is evil everytime/Jews are controlling everything" hook way deep is futile.

My experience with Venezuelans here in Argentina is the same as you. I actually know some of them, and even bang a good number of venezuelan girls. Everyone of them hate Chavez/Madure/Lefties. Heck, one of them, humble guy who left everything and came by fucking bus from there with his mother, almost kick the crap out of a champagne lefty we meet in Palermo.

Post: #1271

(02-24-2019 08:18 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Yeah, that's what everybody is scared of. Socialism being crushed.

Not another Iraq or Afghanistan, wasting lives and billions of dollars, we're all big fans of socialism and worried that it will "crushed".

How can you compare helping Cubans or Venezuelans live a better life and be free of socialism to Iraqis and Afghans that share no ressemblance with western values and whose countries to the West have no interest. Invading them were terrible mistakes, no one as of now I think is talking about a full scale invasion, I think some people like me are cheering for Maduro to fall because he's an idiot so was Chavez and he ruined that country. Are all members here supposed to be for Maduro? Against regime change there? Is that an expectation for you?

Post: #1272

(02-24-2019 08:29 PM)Curunír Wrote:  Are all members here supposed to be for Maduro? Against regime change there? Is that an expectation for you?

Yeah, I'd expect anybody smart enough to figure out how to use a keyboard to know better than to support "regime change" after all the misery it's caused over the past 18 years.

How dumb do you have to be to look back at the disasters in Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Afghanistan, and say, "Let's do it again! This time it'll be different!"?

Post: #1273

(02-24-2019 08:25 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  Lonewolf1992, i admire your intentions, but arguing with some people in this forum that took the "USA is evil everytime/Jews are controlling everything" hook way deep is futile.

My experience with Venezuelans here in Argentina is the same as you. I actually know some of them, and even bang a good number of venezuelan girls. Everyone of them hate Chavez/Madure/Lefties. Heck, one of them, humble guy who left everything and came by fucking bus from there with his mother, almost kick the crap out of a champagne lefty we meet in Palermo.

That's a tear-jerking story, but as SamB points out, why in the fuck should we get involved? Whatever is going on in VZ is none of my concern. And I can assure you the average American has bigger priorities, like trying to pay off their emergency room visits and dealing with the higher and higher cost of living. But no, let us invade Caracas because muh humanitarianism.

Post: #1274

(02-24-2019 08:48 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 08:29 PM)Curunír Wrote:  Are all members here supposed to be for Maduro? Against regime change there? Is that an expectation for you?

Yeah, I'd expect anybody smart enough to figure out how to use a keyboard to know better than to support "regime change" after all the misery it's caused over the past 18 years.

How dumb do you have to be to look back at the disasters in Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Afghanistan, and say, "Let's do it again! This time it'll be different!"?

The vitriol. I don't get it.

But to respond to your question, maybe because those were all Muslim countries? With crazy people I don't care about? That could only be ruled by dictators and have poor genes?

Maybe because I respect and I'm found of Cuban and Venezuelan people, their intelligence, their creativity, their beauty? Maybe because I see the situation as it is and not through 4 inch thick ideological lenses like you? But the key point: I think the people would SUPPORT the regime change and it would be great. I think people would be flocking in the streets of Havana and Caracas like 1945 Amsterdam. I think it would get Trump reelected. I think it would secure a North South conservative alliance in the Americas. I think a lot of good things would happen.

Post: #1275

Come on Sam, it is different this time, they speak Spanish.

To our Latin American posters eager for regime change: maybe you guys can pitch in a few pesos, and volunteer to take up arms to make it happen this time?