Post: #76

I have mixed feelings about ghosting and my experiences with employers:

The good:
- One female manager let me stay on at a job for a month longer than I was required due to my circumstances. Really helped me out.

The bad:
- I've done multiple witnessed drug tests where there is a nurse watching behind me, presumably so that I don't attempt to conceal my out-of-control amphetamine addiction that was not noticeable from a process that involves initial phone calls, several in-person interviews, reference checks and Excel testing. Some companies do random drug tests on office employees all year round.
- An e-mail request (no specific contact person) from HR of a large company to do a recorded video interview, which is like a normal interview, but more awkward as I'm speaking to my computer. Never heard from them again, which was a big confidence-booster.

The ugly:
- I interviewed for a job at a large corporate where I still to this day do not know if I got the job. They ghosted ME. Two years later, I might still be in with a shot...
- I commuted on a 40+ degree day (104F) in suit and tie during a holiday period to a 2 hour interview which included a 1-hour Excel test. Was told the process might take a couple of weeks. After following up twice I let it go, e-mailed after 3-4 weeks and was told by internal HR that they'd forgotten about me.

I honestly think that most of the extra hoops are created by HR to justify their existence, or get a bigger budget so they can hire more 'business partners' who seem to be paid to gossip with managers about employees. A handwriting test though - I think that's probably a deal-breaker.

Post: #77

^ Holly $hit workers might Pop due to amphetamines! Damn I thought they only checked for illicit & illegal Drugs!

Post: #78

(02-11-2019 07:07 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  ^ Holly $hit workers might Pop due to amphetamines! Damn I thought they only checked for illicit & illegal Drugs!

Nope. You have to show them a valid prescription if you test positive for legal drugs in certain categories. It's pretty invasive.

Post: #79

(02-11-2019 06:58 AM)Pangloss Wrote:  I have mixed feelings about ghosting and my experiences with employers:




The ugly:
- I interviewed for a job at a large corporate where I still to this day do not know if I got the job. They ghosted ME. Two years later, I might still be in with a shot...
- I commuted on a 40+ degree day (104F) in suit and tie during a holiday period to a 2 hour interview which included a 1-hour Excel test. Was told the process might take a couple of weeks. After following up twice I let it go, e-mailed after 3-4 weeks and was told by internal HR that they'd forgotten about me.

I've been there. I was interviewing at a place a solid 1.5hrs by bus away from my house.
I went through a phone interview, sales manager interview, director of western Canadian sales interview and then nothing. Literally nothing. I called the sales manager to touch base with him because i hadn't heard if i got the job, was still in the process or they were continuing the process without me. He was surprised because himself AND the director of western Canada sales both gave me the highest possible marks and strongly recommended me for the next step. After we finished the phone call under 10 minutes later i get a phone call from the HR department for an additional interview. It was with the owners of the company (partial telephone interview, some were in the office others were in other cities).
I didn't get the job though. I had the feeling that they had already had someone in mind for the job and that person was hired before my name was a candidate.

Post: #80

(02-11-2019 07:19 AM)Pangloss Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 07:07 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  ^ Holly $hit workers might Pop due to amphetamines! Damn I thought they only checked for illicit & illegal Drugs!

Nope. You have to show them a valid prescription if you test positive for legal drugs in certain categories. It's pretty invasive.

Inform them of the drug you are prescribed and provide them with evidence from your Doctor preemptively-save yourself the grief, and get the job in one smart move.

Post: #81

Maybe they didn't notice, but recruiters ghost on candidates worse than a tinder swipe and nobody cries for prospective the job seeker.

So yeah, I have a tough time sympathizing with employers since this behavior goes two ways.

Blame the kiddies all you want if they participate in staging idiotic $15 minimum wage protests that result in kiosks taking over low level jobs. They're pussy hat wearing idiots with no marketable skills who refuse to snap out of the lies they've been fed.

Yet consider the ones going into student debt for their STEM degrees who got shafted upon graduation by tech giants putting money in Paul Ryan's pocket to allow more H1Bs, all the while stuffing "girls who (cant) code" social promotion requirements up everybody's ass. Don't forget the construction jobs that used to pay $45 an hour a few decades too, now performed by people not even supposed to be in the country. Even supposedly protected skilled union jobs are fair game while the very leadership that collected dues for Democrats sets themselves up for a comfy exit. I too would be a bit jaded if I were a young job seeker, with or without a degree.

Prospective job seekers can be forgiven if they take on a mercenary attitude towards the same employers gleefully allowing such wholesale evisceration of the middle class economy while having the unmitigated gall to call it the free market. There isn't anything free about artificially low labor rates meant to help the Koch brothers get rich and DNC candidates get elected.

Frankly, I don't see anything unsurprising in their reaction to the hot stove of negative reinforcement.

Post: #82

(02-11-2019 07:19 AM)Pangloss Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 07:07 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  ^ Holly $hit workers might Pop due to amphetamines! Damn I thought they only checked for illicit & illegal Drugs!

Nope. You have to show them a valid prescription if you test positive for legal drugs in certain categories. It's pretty invasive.

Yeah, it's fairly common in some govt jobs to be randomly tested for alcohol (breath test) and a range of drugs including meth, cocaine, heroin, weed and benzo's (via mouth swab).

I have no problem with the illegal drug testing but I don't like it when they test for stuff like benzo's which may have been prescribed for stuff like depression or sleeping problems. A positive test requires the employee to show a prescription which often gives away that the employee is being treated for a condition that they would have preferred to keep to themselves.

Post: #83

That's hardly a recent thing in dead end jobs. Already 15 years ago this happened at a company where I worked that didn't give two shits about employees near homeless situation (insane housing shortage even for rooms) who eventually left the city / country without notice.

Next thing you know everyone was sent an email from legal stating they will sue our ass if we leave without notice and are currently legally pursuing those escaped slaves who left.

Needless to say I left as well...

Post: #84

(02-09-2019 08:05 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  Corporations do need to be called out for their shitty behavior, lack of benefits for employees, SJW policies, treating workers as transient and so on. They need a taste of millennial medicine. Ghosting an employer is poetic justice in my opinion. I'm reminded of Japan where the system used to be primarily lifetime employment based with one company, whereas now less and less permanent hires are being made and these are being offset with temps, so the Japanese are going Galt. At some point you have to send a strong message by saying screw the system. And then maybe things become better or they don't.

I was recently in Japan. Low income job holders are being replaced with south east asian turd world people.

I'm surprised japanese people don't boycott all these places hiring third world women with mustaches and a hunch. I was horrified going to places staffed with them.

Tokyo will be ruined in less than a decade if ultra nationalists don't go kamikaze on enablers and south east asians despise Japanese people just like rapefugees despise western Europeans, because they know they don't stack up and aren't really wanted.

That's what the replacement is for in the end. To keep the machine going at the lowest level with cut rate slaves while higher level jobs get automated with an elite caste of maintainers and developers that most likely is made up solely of tribe members.

Post: #85

(02-10-2019 11:58 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  I like the idea of corporate guerilla warfare. Maybe we should all be taking medical leave or something to suck these companies dry.

Women have been doing this 20 years ago already. Any wage gap is a result of always being "sick", taking back to back paid maternity leaves for years on end and coming up with creative ways to shaft their corporate beta bucks.

Post: #86

(02-11-2019 02:00 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  

(02-10-2019 11:58 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  I like the idea of corporate guerilla warfare. Maybe we should all be taking medical leave or something to suck these companies dry.

Women have been doing this 20 years ago already. Any wage gap is a result of always being "sick", taking back to back paid maternity leaves for years on end and coming up with creative ways to shaft their corporate beta bucks.

This. The number of sick days women take, their refusal to work unpaid overtime (relative to men's willingness), their likelihood of going on mental health leave, and of course mat. leave could probably account for most of the gender wage gap.

Post: #87

Why it's risky to give 2 weeks notice:

Post: #88

(02-11-2019 01:53 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 08:05 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  Corporations do need to be called out for their shitty behavior, lack of benefits for employees, SJW policies, treating workers as transient and so on. They need a taste of millennial medicine. Ghosting an employer is poetic justice in my opinion. I'm reminded of Japan where the system used to be primarily lifetime employment based with one company, whereas now less and less permanent hires are being made and these are being offset with temps, so the Japanese are going Galt. At some point you have to send a strong message by saying screw the system. And then maybe things become better or they don't.

I was recently in Japan. Low income job holders are being replaced with south east asian turd world people.

I'm surprised japanese people don't boycott all these places hiring third world women with mustaches and a hunch. I was horrified going to places staffed with them.

Tokyo will be ruined in less than a decade if ultra nationalists don't go kamikaze on enablers and south east asians despise Japanese people just like rapefugees despise western Europeans, because they know they don't stack up and aren't really wanted.

That's what the replacement is for in the end. To keep the machine going at the lowest level with cut rate slaves while higher level jobs get automated with an elite caste of maintainers and developers that most likely is made up solely of tribe members.

Japan is a dying nation that cares more about anime porn than having kids. Their small and medium-sized cities are bleeding people to lives of atomization in Tokyo and Osaka. They are undoing their culture and traditions, so SE Asian immigrants in their country don't bother them that much anymore.

Post: #89

(02-11-2019 12:41 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Don't forget the construction jobs that used to pay $45 an hour a few decades too

Shit man, that's top-tier engineer salary here in europe.

Post: #90

(02-11-2019 08:57 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 06:58 AM)Pangloss Wrote:  I have mixed feelings about ghosting and my experiences with employers:




The ugly:
- I interviewed for a job at a large corporate where I still to this day do not know if I got the job. They ghosted ME. Two years later, I might still be in with a shot...
- I commuted on a 40+ degree day (104F) in suit and tie during a holiday period to a 2 hour interview which included a 1-hour Excel test. Was told the process might take a couple of weeks. After following up twice I let it go, e-mailed after 3-4 weeks and was told by internal HR that they'd forgotten about me.

I've been there. I was interviewing at a place a solid 1.5hrs by bus away from my house.
I went through a phone interview, sales manager interview, director of western Canadian sales interview and then nothing. Literally nothing. I called the sales manager to touch base with him because i hadn't heard if i got the job, was still in the process or they were continuing the process without me. He was surprised because himself AND the director of western Canada sales both gave me the highest possible marks and strongly recommended me for the next step. After we finished the phone call under 10 minutes later i get a phone call from the HR department for an additional interview. It was with the owners of the company (partial telephone interview, some were in the office others were in other cities).
I didn't get the job though. I had the feeling that they had already had someone in mind for the job and that person was hired before my name was a candidate.

I had a job last year where they flew me all the way out to another part of the country, then ghosted afterwards.

Fine by me. I closed the deal and had a better offer.

Post: #91

On a positive note was speaking to a guy who moved to SoNH/MetroBoston 5 years ago with no HVAC experience but worked on commercial ships down south - started at $17 hour apprentice and studied manuals and worked with cools guys with experience and at first took all of the after hours and grunt calls and after six weeks (could already read manuals and schematics) could handle 80% of the calls on his own and the other 20% with an occasional support call to one of the senior guys. Now he is a senior guy and mentioned that for every 3 guys that retire in the area only one guy fills the job and very few if any H1Bs going into the field as their customers like people who can be respectful, clean up afterwards and speak English coming into their homes - all the new residential and commercial systems have multiple CPU board controllers that take some effort to learn and program essentially high-level scripting or using a windows interface to configure settings - he prefers service calls because he likes driving to different locations and troubleshooting versus installs which can take a few days or commercial where you are on the same job site for months.

Bottom line he currently earns $40 per hour regular and $60 hour overtime and there is a shortage in the industry because the older guys can't be bothered to learn to set up and or code the newly computerized controllers - huge opps for tech guys competing with H1Bs in large corp environments... oh and if you suspect an illegal on the job can turn them into ICE if they did not have a valid e-verify SSN (Most Do NOT) - anyway most illegals can't read the manuals and schematics anyways... and H1Bs only want jobs where they sit behind a keyboard coding or doing sys/net admin. So not bad when you can start not knowing anything at $17hr and through OJT and reading Installation and Operations Manuals work up to $40/$60hr Reg/Overtime.

Point is the Trades now require more tech skills and pay better and better compared to Cubicle Commando jobs... though you still have to put up with home or small biz owners nothing is perfect.

Post: #92

(02-11-2019 04:31 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 08:57 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 06:58 AM)Pangloss Wrote:  I have mixed feelings about ghosting and my experiences with employers:




The ugly:
- I interviewed for a job at a large corporate where I still to this day do not know if I got the job. They ghosted ME. Two years later, I might still be in with a shot...
- I commuted on a 40+ degree day (104F) in suit and tie during a holiday period to a 2 hour interview which included a 1-hour Excel test. Was told the process might take a couple of weeks. After following up twice I let it go, e-mailed after 3-4 weeks and was told by internal HR that they'd forgotten about me.

I've been there. I was interviewing at a place a solid 1.5hrs by bus away from my house.
I went through a phone interview, sales manager interview, director of western Canadian sales interview and then nothing. Literally nothing. I called the sales manager to touch base with him because i hadn't heard if i got the job, was still in the process or they were continuing the process without me. He was surprised because himself AND the director of western Canada sales both gave me the highest possible marks and strongly recommended me for the next step. After we finished the phone call under 10 minutes later i get a phone call from the HR department for an additional interview. It was with the owners of the company (partial telephone interview, some were in the office others were in other cities).
I didn't get the job though. I had the feeling that they had already had someone in mind for the job and that person was hired before my name was a candidate.

I had a job last year where they flew me all the way out to another part of the country, then ghosted afterwards.

Fine by me. I closed the deal and had a better offer.

You mean they left you in another part of the country? I'm surprised you closed the deal anyway. Most people would do far worse considering you were in contact with their client.

Post: #93

I mean they ghosted me after taking the time and expense to pay for my airline, hotel, and rental car to go interview at HQ.

And what are you talking about "in contact with their client"?

Post: #94

(02-11-2019 03:54 PM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 12:41 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Don't forget the construction jobs that used to pay $45 an hour a few decades too

Shit man, that's top-tier engineer salary here in europe.

France - a country where half the population works, and the other half tries to stop them from working. (I'm only half-kidding!)

To be fair, most American construction jobs haven't paid much that since about the early '90s. Maybe plumbers and electricians can still command that much in some markets, but their best days are probably numbered given the low-balling of labor nationwide. Even engineers are being brought in on bullshit H1B visas for some tasks, like inspections.

Before anyone starts to reminisce about unions, don't let them skate completely free - they helped this situation happen. During the union construction heyday the stereotype was that the unions would land a contract (often municipal works projects), complete half the work, then go on strike until they negotiated higher wages. Sometimes they would do deliberately shitty work if they didn't get what they wanted, knowing they would be called back later to correct the deficiencies. I even heard of this happening at a nuclear power plant construction site. Brilliant, right?

Well that strategy worked great for them for a while, but maybe not so well for their kids. Who could blame the bill payers, public or private sector, for seeking out alternatives? Capital will always follow the path of least resistance.

Post: #95

Delete

Post: #96

(02-11-2019 07:08 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  France - a country where half the population works, and the other half tries to stop them from working. (I'm only half-kidding!)

Well if we are talking about france I think I put this here already :


Standardized monthly hours are 169, so $45 an hour gets you into 98th percentile territory.
You most probably will never get there as a developer, unless it's a very small niche and you're very good at it.

But in germany and a couple other europeans countries (luxembourg, switzerland) I know some developers getting that (myself included).
It's doable after some years of experience if you're smart.

In general it seems that the salaries in the us are much higher, however they are often mentioned without all taxes and mandatory contributions included, and the cost of living is often not comparable at all (the commute time for instance).

Post: #97

Causing employees to 'ghost' is a trick employers often use to avoid being charged with wrongful dismissal. They tell employees not to come in or that they've been let go and later they list their reason for their termination as being that the employee stopped coming to work. This way they don't officially fire anyone. So many of these cases of 'ghosting' likely fall into that scenario.

Post: #98

All you need about traveling for interviews:

AskTheHeadhunter Wrote:If you decide to make the trip, do some research and figure out who are the employer’s best and biggest competitors in the same city. Call them. Talk to the head of sales, not to HR. Be frank. “I’m going to be in town interviewing with company A — but I’ve heard great things about your company (B). If you’re available on such and such a date, I’d like to stop by at a time convenient to you to introduce myself. Can we schedule a cup of coffee?”

Do this with as many companies as you can. Even if you have to pay for another night’s stay, this may be an excellent investment because your trip will be more likely to pay off. It’s a funny kind of employer psychology that I’ve seen again and again. When company B hears that company A is interviewing you, B is suddenly motivated to get in on the action, especially because there’s no travel cost. Ordinarily, company B might not interview you, but when one company deems you attractive, you instantly become attractive to its competitors.

https://www.asktheheadhunter.com/7269/ma...el-pay-off

Post: #99

(02-12-2019 05:21 PM)peterlittlehorse Wrote:  Causing employees to 'ghost' is a trick employers often use to avoid being charged with wrongful dismissal. They tell employees not to come in or that they've been let go and later they list their reason for their termination as being that the employee stopped coming to work. This way they don't officially fire anyone. So many of these cases of 'ghosting' likely fall into that scenario.

Or they post a work schedule at the beginning of the week, everyone copies down their hours, and then they change it in the middle of the week without telling anyone.

Employees they don't want don't show up for shifts, are let go.

Plus, no workman's comp when you disappear.

Post: #100

I think the new thing are jobs asking (requiring) employees to work an open schedule, they don't give you a set schedule and it changes every week. So not only can you not make any plans, but you also cannot get a second job. And if you wanted to get a second job, it probably requires you to keep an open schedule as well so you're double fucked.