Post: #1

Seems like the only booming industry for young professionals these days is app development and startups.

Is it too late to hop into this field - I managed to get into a 2 year second degree comp sci program at UBC but am concerned that I'd be entering the industry at the tail end of its boom.

Thoughts?

My background is in geology and mining engineering which is in a slump at the moment.

Post: #2

Comp Sci will always be in demand. The problems are having to continually update your technical skills and dealing with unprofessional people compared to other fields (finance/banking/accounting, marketing, healthcare, etc). Any normal IT environment is very unprofessional.

IT/Computer Science also has uneducated people who are just high school graduates and were able to land a IT job from taking a few Comp Sci courses at a community college. From personal experience, they are the worst I have encountered and its best to avoid uneducated people in social and professional environments.

I personally find bioinformatics and bioengineering interesting.

Post: #3

(12-27-2018 12:51 PM)dildor Wrote:  Seems like the only booming industry for young professionals these days is app development and startups.

Is it too late to hop into this field - I managed to get into a 2 year second degree comp sci program at UBC but am concerned that I'd be entering the industry at the tail end of its boom.

Thoughts?

My background is in geology and mining engineering which is in a slump at the moment.

The mining slump could easily reverse in two years. A major focus in mining at the moment is the automation of machinery, to drive down labour costs (it's expensive to keep men housed, fed and waged 24/7 at the arse ends of the earth). So with your background and a degree in computer science tailored to this, you could well find it profitable.

Post: #4

It is not too late, as long as you actually like computer science and are not just hopping on the bandwagon because of money. We still have a long way to go when it comes to automation, and we're only scratching the surface of AI and other fields. Lots and lots of things to do. Good software engineers are always in high demand.

Post: #5

2 year degrees are worthless especially in comp sci. I would do a 2+2 if i was in your shoes. 2 years at community college and another 2 at a regular university for the actual comp sci degree.

I knew a guy who got a degree in geology and then a masters in hydrology from some university in Scotland . He then proceeded to develop a really powerful erosion modeling program first in access then in SQL. He travels all over the world and makes great money doing hydrology consulting. During the mining booms he lives on a 4-6 month rotation consulting at job sites and on the busts he makes cash on licensing royalties.

Look at comp sci and software dev as a tool to solve a problem. Tech as an industry annoys me greatly because they're just tool makers, not value creators.

If you want to go full programming as a career, be forewarned it's a young man's game (lots of ageism). You either get into management or into something else by your mid 30s.

However, your skills will be highly valued outside of traditional tech areas. You're looking at $50k+ in very low cost of living areas. Small businesses need programmers too.

Your options are unlimited, just get the full BS in comp sci. Don't half ass it!

Post: #6

It's not too late, and you don't need a college degree. You just need to know how to code, which you can learn on your own if you are motivated enough.

Post: #7

The best time to get in was 10 years ago. Second best time is now. It's never too late, the demand for solid professionals is only going to increase.

Post: #8

I'd be selective about going to a bootcamp. Many of them have shut down due to the fact that their students can not find jobs.

Post: #9

It's never too late. Most important skill for getting a job in tech sector for software development, data science, or any other subfield is to actually enjoy doing. At minimum you should have some interest in doing problem solving. Without some kind of intrinsic interest it will be very difficult to succeed because most things you have to teach yourself and even once you land a job you have to continuously upgrade your skills because the technology is constantly evolving.

Formal education is not required but it helps a lot. A good undergrad curriculum will cover all the requisite math and also provide a broad survey of all the areas of computing. Doing class projects in solo and group settings will teach you how to develop code and use various tools.

Beyond that you need to master the algorithms and coding interview skills necessary to get your first position. Most people shooting for high tech jobs at FAANG (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google) practice using leetcode (http://www.leetcode.com). This provides the very difficult programming and algorithm questions widely used by industry for technical interviews. However, the service is not free.

Compensation is high (starting anywhere from 80k to 120k depending on position and skill with stock options and annual refreshers) but you will most likely have to live in a high cost of living area such as Silicon Valley, Seattle, NYC, Washington DC etc... Also liberal havens and anti poosy paradise in general.

Post: #10

Man computer science would suck compared to working as a mining engineer. You sure you can’t find anything right now? What about actually working on location? There has to be opportunities in remote exploration camps or at mines. Or do you want to only work downtown Vancouver?

Post: #11

The richest people in technology usually don't even have paper credentials in the field. So in practice getting a computer degree (which is pretty much a 4+ year commitment) just sets you up for some $50,000 - $90,000 office job unless it's San Francisco (where any huge salary increase coincidences with a huge cost of living and dealing with retarded SJWs, LGBTs, Homeless pooing outside and so on).

Post: #12

I wouldn't recommend going to school for it, but it can definitely be learned if you dive head first into it.

All the resources exist online and for free or nearly free. If you are looking for a job, most of the big shops don't even require a degree anymore, which is showing what direction things are going. There's cheap talent at your local university as well, most of these people aren't particularly confident or go-getter types.

Post: #13

Codecademy.com, datacamp.com, coursera.com & lynda.com all offer fantastic courses and you can access them for free for X days. There are also many great books and community made tutorials.

There is no need to go to college to get a CS degree. I started learning programming only six weeks ago (Python) and already productive with it. Spent like $ 12 only for a paid course so far.

Post: #14

I have said this before and will say it again: you don't need a degree to get a job in tech as a dev but it doesn't hurt. All else equal, companies will choose the degree holder over the non degree holder.

As far as state of the industry goes, no there is no tail end of this. This isn't cyclical like mining, tech is secular 1 way and that way is up.

@ the OP: if you want more detail about the tech scene in the lower mainland you can PM me.

Post: #15

Just to put this out there I've almost finished my first 2 years of a CS degree at a community college and so far the only language we have spent major time on is c++. The instructors say this is the hardest one so now we will do java and python and they will be easy since we know c++. We have also done a bit of c and assembly language.

Post: #16

If you want to generalize, industry has two types of people in it: people who had some interest in IT, then went to get schooling done and now doing something IT related anything from bestbuy consultant to some sort of support and people who commit to it off 'normal hours' and code, make their own projects, and educate themselves for 3-5 years. Starting salary for latter is still around 200-300k after school or with related experience.

Post: #17

(12-30-2018 07:21 PM)RV_p Wrote:  If you want to generalize, industry has two types of people in it: people who had some interest in IT, then went to get schooling done and now doing something IT related anything from bestbuy consultant to some sort of support and people who commit to it off 'normal hours' and code, make their own projects, and educate themselves for 3-5 years. Starting salary for latter is still around 200-300k after school or with related experience.

1 post in 3 years

What you do professionally btw?

Post: #18

^^$200-300k??

Post: #19

(12-30-2018 05:23 PM)B-Minus Wrote:  ... so far the only language we have spent major time on is c++. The instructors say this is the hardest one so now we will do java and python and they will be easy since we know c++. We have also done a bit of c and assembly language.

I agree with your instructors about the value of C++. The creator of StackOverlow, Joel Spolsky, wrote a nice article about teaching hard stuff at the university https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/12/2...schools-2/. He likes your school's approach too.

Nowadays we also see functional languages picking up, so you might want get interested in Haskell or do some exercises from Scheme/Lisp-based Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs (famous textbook from MIT).

(12-30-2018 07:21 PM)RV_p Wrote:  ... Starting salary for latter is still around 200-300k after school or with related experience.

That's not exactly true, but it's close to the truth. First, you need to be in Silicon Valley or New York. London or Singapore is not enough. That's not the salary, but the total compensation (we abbreviate it to TC in our slang). It includes your annual bonus and stock grant. Finally, it's not a starting comp. It takes around a year or two of experience after the school. To crack 300k you'll need around 3-5 years of experience and not everybody gets there.

It's a common wrong assumption that compensation is normally distributed (Gaussian). What really happens is that there is a mixture of two Gaussian distributions. First peak is below 100k - those are the people somewhat interested in IT. The second one at 300k are those who understand computers. See https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/

Post: #20

(12-30-2018 07:21 PM)RV_p Wrote:  If you want to generalize, industry has two types of people in it: people who had some interest in IT, then went to get schooling done and now doing something IT related anything from bestbuy consultant to some sort of support and people who commit to it off 'normal hours' and code, make their own projects, and educate themselves for 3-5 years. Starting salary for latter is still around 200-300k after school or with related experience.

Lots of hyperbole here. Only firms paying that much for fresh grads with no work experiences are FAANG or HFT and even that's a stretch.

I'm very suspect about some dude having 1 post after 3 years.

Post: #21

It's not that hyperbolic. I worked in tech for quite a long time in a position where I had access to every salary in the company. If you have an impressive github, a CS/IS degree or masters, you can definitely make 150k+ starting, though your projects would have to be extremely impressive to qualify at that level and you would have to destroy the coding interview.

I am extremely good at identifying the buzzwords that will make you money. Years ago, I became a "Project Manager" through two $500 courses and a PMP examination. When I was 25 I was making 100k with no graduate school, a humanities major, and only a few years of real work experience. Currently, the best buzzwords to hop on at this time are "data science" and "machine learning", with data science being the easier and more bang for buck of the two. I highly recommend learning statistics, the R programming language, and python. These are things that will very easily make you a lot of money. You can also apply data science to other positions and it's more general, allowing for different career paths on your way to the top.

I would hop on the Data Science bandwagon if you're just looking for a good career. My path is taking me to law school which is a good deal if I can get into one of the top fourteen or so schools.

Post: #22

If you are 'educating yourself' for 3-5 years during the study you are not fresh grad by any standard. To spell out even more, educating would include coop terms, open source coding, a couple of mini projects, and a solid commit base on github that works as your resume. As rogue mentioned, and I should have clarified, that 300k is a compensation package split roughly 50% - 50% between cash and accumulative (2-4 year) stock options. Again rogue, you are right about distribution, but this is what I did mention, the difference between 100k support at non-it company and cashing out at 300k (I might burst some bubbles here, but, as you know, 300k is not the limit) at big 5 is the amount of work you put in during college off hours. Yes, you got to be interested in computers to code non stop for 6 years.

Post: #23

(12-31-2018 01:42 PM)Dasein Wrote:  It's not that hyperbolic. I worked in tech for quite a long time in a position where I had access to every salary in the company. If you have an impressive github, a CS/IS degree or masters, you can definitely make 150k+ starting, though your projects would have to be extremely impressive to qualify at that level and you would have to destroy the coding interview.

I am extremely good at identifying the buzzwords that will make you money. Years ago, I became a "Project Manager" through two $500 courses and a PMP examination. When I was 25 I was making 100k with no graduate school, a humanities major, and only a few years of real work experience. Currently, the best buzzwords to hop on at this time are "data science" and "machine learning", with data science being the easier and more bang for buck of the two. I highly recommend learning statistics, the R programming language, and python. These are things that will very easily make you a lot of money. You can also apply data science to other positions and it's more general, allowing for different career paths on your way to the top.

I would hop on the Data Science bandwagon if you're just looking for a good career. My path is taking me to law school which is a good deal if I can get into one of the top fourteen or so schools.

Cool insight. Do you have any recommendation for how to score a job within ML or Data Science, without any CS degree or practical CS experience?

I have +8 years of work experience with project management and business development in the tech sector, but just started learning my first programming language (Python) a couple of months ago and I really dig it. I have my own business, but it's running on it's own and it only takes me about 1-2 hours a day so want to do something cool within maybe data science.