Post: #176

Look at Corey as an actor. In the video he acted out Chad qualities. Useful because now we have a video to talk about. For our purposes it is not important who the actor is. As long as we have an example of Chad on video. It is a whole lot cheaper than hiring a real actor to play Chad for us.

Chad Thundercock is as real as James Bond. They both are ficitonal characters. And just like Daniel Craig can display the qualities of Bond on camera so does Corey display the qualities of Chad on camera.

Chad and Bond are opposites in a way. Bond is a highly succesful guy where Chad is supposed to be a complete idiot. And both can be very attractive to all kinds of girls. Both can be considered Alpha males.

And this opposition is the point of the Chad character. To demonstrate that an Alpha male does not neccesary has to be a CEO, wall street banker, football champion or famous musician. He can be a guy working for McDonalds wearing sunglasses.

Jefferson Wrote:"BadBoyGamer" >>
It goes even "deeper" than this. Alpha men do not exist. It is a fictional concept. You can not "be" an Alpha man.

I have to say I would agree with this, no matter which supposed Alpha Man I've studied, when you start scratching beneath the facade you inevitably find the beta underneath.

Both do not exist. Alpha and Beta are abstractions of qualities. Qualities that can be displayed by anyone. And these qualities and abstraction ONLY relate to sexuality for our purposes. Being a general of army and commanding a million men does not make one Alpha for our purposes. Only the sexual opinion of girls count.

And even if this general be banging a truckload of hotties this does not automagically make him Alpha either. These girls must desire to fuck him. From the bottom of their...hearts. If he pays for it or promises to not shoot them it does not count.

It does not matter how one displays these qualities. Only thing that matters is the result of attracting young and attractive girls. Whether or not you fake it, naturally do it or studied for it.

Jefferson Wrote:When he supposedly should have been Alpha-God fucking. He didn't. Seeing how Corey ticks will not be of help.

Nobody claims Corey fucks loads of girls. He could be virgin for all I know.

Oak Wrote:How could he have changed his behavior in that particular video to make him appear more attractive to women?

He even created attraction in the female interviewer.

Jefferson Wrote:THAT's the point. That despite his Alpha behaviour and strong frame Corey is neither a sucess in life, nor a success with women.

There therefore appears to be a significant disconnect between the reality as we see it and the Red Pill theories churned out by people like Rollo Tomassi.

His frame was strong when the cameras where rolling. This provides us with an example of Chad on video. Rollo is not talking about Corey. He is talking about Chad. The fictional sterotype embodying a specific set of qualities. Qualities that can be defined as Alpha in the same way an apple can be considered a fruit.

The character of Chad might be a fiction. He is based on something real. The real version of Chad is not Corey! The real version can be found at many places. The sterotypical american football player is one. The douchebag without shirt and wearing sunglasses inside a nightclub is another. Yet another guy can be found living in his mothers basement having drunk parties all day long.

Finding good video footage of guys like this is a difficult task.

Shemp Wrote:Where I think BadBoyGamer goes wrong is thinking these silly Belieber girls are quality and worth lusting after. They may be cheerleaders but, if so, they are the stupider lower class cheerleaders. The beautiful sorority girls who will marry Wall Street bankers never took Justin Bieber seriously, never took Worthington seriously.

Whatever floats your boat. I happen to like hot cheerleaders.

StrikeBack Wrote:he should not be lecturing us about Game.

This is not Game. It is Red Pill.

It (flawed as it is) provided a theoretical framework explaining male female sexuality. Bascially it explains why Game works.

corsega Wrote:*sigh*

This is a circular argument with you guys, it really is. There's no point in even continuing. You don't get what we're saying. It's like talking to a brick wall. I'd propose we just acknowledge that we all probably agree with each other, but the medium of a forum post is causing a massive communication breakdown here.

Do not give up. We all aim for better understanding. And this topic provides for some interesting discussion.


Quick word about "Gymcel"

I do not know what "Gymcel" means. The word however makes me think about something:

http://www.returnofkings.com/36915/what-...experiment

How wonderful that Return of Kings (A Roosh production) has an article on this experiment. It is worth the read. Pay close attention to the part that talks about "The Beautiful Ones".
.
.

Post: #177

@AneroidOcean: You miss my point entirely. It had nothing to do with prudes/sluts. It has to do with whether beautiful, intelligent, psychologically healthy, ambitious young women are attracted to the Justin Biebers and Corey Worthingtons of this world. They are not. Fuckwit-douche attitude plus androgynous looks is indeed attractive to SOME silly girls, but not to more mature young women. Also, these kinds of guys age quickly. Plus, they often don't even manage to take advantage of all the silly girls crushing on them when they are young, so their pretty boys years are wasted. Plenty of evidence presented above that Worthington didn't take much advantage of his 15 minutes of fame. Not sure about the Bieb.

Bottom line, I think the fans of Worthington's attitude are more in the wrong. Fuckwit-douche attitude plus pretty boy looks may indeed work for a while, but has limited shelf life, and probably limited usefulness even while not expired. Better to make yourself something of more enduring value, even if it doesn't initially appeal to the 16yo cheerleaders.

Post: #178

(12-04-2018 06:44 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 05:02 PM)corsega Wrote:  *sigh*

This is a circular argument with you guys, it really is. There's no point in even continuing. You don't get what we're saying. It's like talking to a brick wall. I'd propose we just acknowledge that we all probably agree with each other, but the medium of a forum post is causing a massive communication breakdown here.

Corsega, we agree that Corey displayed an Alpha attitude in the video. We also agree that attitude is of relevance. Are you saying anything beyond that about the importance of attitude?

Nope. So we agree

Post: #179

(12-04-2018 06:44 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 02:36 PM)Shemp Wrote:  Where I think BadBoyGamer goes wrong is thinking these silly Belieber girls are quality and worth lusting after. They may be cheerleaders but, if so, they are the stupider lower class cheerleaders. The beautiful sorority girls who will marry Wall Street bankers never took Justin Bieber seriously, never took Worthington seriously.

If you really think a lot of beautiful sorority girls aren't fucking along the 80/20 rule you are VASTLY mistaken.

Ask ANY guy who has racked up a significantly above average notch count and he'll tell you he's fucked all manner of girls from those that many would outwardly consider prudes to those that are considered all out sluts.

The 80/20 rule applies. There are exceptions but most women will get fucked by a smaller subset of guys.

Most women will have casual sex with a smaller subset of guys.

Most women will also date guys from a wider general pool.

There are the "alphas" they fuck in the heat of the moment between relationships, keeping everything secret from their friends. Then there are the "betas" who they date and regularly have sex with. I use "alpha" and "beta" extremely loosely.

I agree with corsega, we probably agree on most things game wise, but I definitely disagree that sexual success is relegated to a small minority of men. I really don't see why someone in a serious relationship with a hot girl is considered to be less alpha than someone who can project confident behavior and racks up a high notch count. I don't look down on the latter as I have been there personally, but the former is more fulfilling and satisfying by leaps and bounds.

And like I said earlier, I definitely don't feel like it's a top twenty percentile dating eighty percent of the women. I took a scroll through my Instagram and looked at some of the girls I follow. One hot Indian girl is in a relationship with a small, scrawny white guy. A hot Latina is in a relationship with a fairly average Asian dude. A hot black girl is in a relationship with a short, skinny-fat black dude. I doubt these guys are part of a category that gets 80% of all women, they just happened to connect with these girls and are enjoying better success than 99% of all PUA's out there.

Post: #180

This discussion about Corey Worthington really calls into question the entire concept of game. And I really want game to be a real thing, since it means I have a shot. But when I saw the original article about him being "alpha buddha" I was taken aback. I have dealt with these borderline retarded (as in just above 80 iq), flat affect rejects for a lot of my life. They're the kind of people that like to start shit with the introvert pariahs like me, in high school. They really are too damn stupid to be attributed any form of agency. I had this one guy pick a fight with me on 3 separate occasions and I left him with a bloody nose, a broken finger, and missing teeth; he just didn't get it. That doesn't make him tough, just dumb. Same deal with Corey. I wouldn't call a guy that jumps off a cliff because he saw Wile. E. Coyote do it "brave."

The fact that there are people saying that he epitomizes what alpha behavior is serves as an indictment of the efficacy of game. When I watch that clip I see someone barely able to grasp his situation, not someone in control. I really have to wonder, in that case, if game has any worth beyond the basics of "don't be a pussy" and "improve yourself." In the back of my mind I always have to wonder if the people here that are successful would be successful without the in-depth analysis of game. Conversely, I wonder if those you dismiss as not having the right "frame" or similar could even be helped by embracing the finer nuances of game at all.

It kind of reminds me of acupuncture: Some of it has demonstrable physiological effects (this is being confident and bettering one's self), however as far as a medical remedy goes, including all of the modern branches and disciplines, it is dubious (this is where I'd file things like positive energy, frame, and a lot of the other nebulous concepts). The reality is that some people get cancer and some of those people recover. Some of the people that get cancer and recover also tried acupuncture. That does not mean acupuncture cured them. There's no good method to prove it one way or another as far as game is concerned, but it is something we should consider.

That's where I think the idea of 80/20 comes in. A minority of people will naturally have success because of what they are and that is that. Sure, there are some borderline cases where a guy is mentally blocked because he is so shy that he never approaches a woman, but if he did he would succeed. Then you have a guy like me: approach anxiety was barely an issue for me, I never just tuck my tail between my legs and take abuse, but I'm also fairly repulsive to women. I can certainly improve my social skills and appearance, but given my lack of even marginal success, I'll probably always be the second choice. I want game to be a thing because it means that I can learn how to be attractive, but I am dubious.

Post: #181

^Game is definitely a thing, no one's arguing with that. The manosphere just has a ton of bullshit concepts that deserve calling out.

Being "dubious" about game won't help you, self improvement will. Self improvement will never hurt you, but mental masturbation over hypergamy, the 80/20 rule, etc will.

Post: #182

(12-04-2018 10:07 PM)Jaxon Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 06:44 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 02:36 PM)Shemp Wrote:  Where I think BadBoyGamer goes wrong is thinking these silly Belieber girls are quality and worth lusting after. They may be cheerleaders but, if so, they are the stupider lower class cheerleaders. The beautiful sorority girls who will marry Wall Street bankers never took Justin Bieber seriously, never took Worthington seriously.

If you really think a lot of beautiful sorority girls aren't fucking along the 80/20 rule you are VASTLY mistaken.

Ask ANY guy who has racked up a significantly above average notch count and he'll tell you he's fucked all manner of girls from those that many would outwardly consider prudes to those that are considered all out sluts.

The 80/20 rule applies. There are exceptions but most women will get fucked by a smaller subset of guys.

And like I said earlier, I definitely don't feel like it's a top twenty percentile dating eighty percent of the women. I took a scroll through my Instagram and looked at some of the girls I follow. One hot Indian girl is in a relationship with a small, scrawny white guy. A hot Latina is in a relationship with a fairly average Asian dude. A hot black girl is in a relationship with a short, skinny-fat black dude. I doubt these guys are part of a category that gets 80% of all women, they just happened to connect with these girls and are enjoying better success than 99% of all PUA's out there.

The difference is that these guys are in relationships, while the premise of this thread is about the casual sex market.

Post: #183

I don't believe the Cory guy to be an alpha but I will say this. I bet he got some lays with some decent young specimens and a lot of female attention with the status and notoriety he had, however short lived. Probably got some bad attention from jealous/NPC Cory boy bad, guys looking to knock him out too. Admittedly, he was a massive douche.

Not many avenues for scrawny dweebie looking dudes to bang hotties, especially your superficial Aussie party girls. most likely wasn't worth it, but he did find a way. Id say that qualifies as game in a way.

Post: #184

Quote:...but I definitely disagree that sexual success is relegated to a small minority of men. I really don't see why someone in a serious relationship with a hot girl is considered to be less alpha than someone who can project confident behavior and racks up a high notch count. I don't look down on the latter as I have been there personally, but the former is more fulfilling and satisfying by leaps and bounds.

Alpha can pretty much be defined as someone who is desired by woman. Or at least has the qualities to be desired by woman. Pay close attention to the word "desired".

You can be in a relationship with 10 woman for all I care. If you be paying these woman to be with you, you be Beta. If you be negotiating for sex in any way shape or form, you be Beta.

To put it yet another way. You can be the most badass CEO in the world. Leader of a million men. Strong as ten lions. If you be putting garbage outside in order to "earn" sex from your wife, you be Beta.

Alpha = Woman desire to have sex with you.
Beta = Woman negotiate to have sex with you.

Quote:And like I said earlier, I definitely don't feel like it's a top twenty percentile dating eighty percent of the women.

Feelings? This is intellectual discussion. No place for feelings.

Quote:One hot Indian girl is in a relationship with a small, scrawny white guy. A hot Latina is in a relationship with a fairly average Asian dude. A hot black girl is in a relationship with a short, skinny-fat black dude. I doubt these guys are part of a category that gets 80% of all women, they just happened to connect with these girls and are enjoying better success than 99% of all PUA's out there.

Girls "date" both Alphas and Betas. It is part of dualistic nature of female sexual strategy. Nobody says girls ONLY date Alphas. If you look outside of window you can clearly see girls date all kinds of different guys. As you also noticed on your Instagram thingy.

The more important question to ask is: how much do these girls desire to have sex with these guys? Once again, pay close attention to the word desire.

Quote:This discussion about Corey Worthington really calls into question the entire concept of game.

No it does not. He basically confirms Game. This discussion is about Red Pill. Two different things.

Quote:I have dealt with these borderline retarded (as in just above 80 iq), flat affect rejects for a lot of my life. They're the kind of people that like to start shit with the introvert pariahs like me, in high school. They really are too damn stupid to be attributed any form of agency.

Chad is supposed to be a complete loser with low IQ. He is an example to demonstrate that you do not have be James Bond to get laid with hot girls. You can be a loser and still get laid.

That you got beat up by these guys only makes it harder for you to stay objective.

Quote:The fact that there are people saying that he epitomizes what alpha behavior is serves as an indictment of the efficacy of game. When I watch that clip I see someone barely able to grasp his situation, not someone in control.

Chad is an example of a particular type of a natural. A guy who is so stupid that only on accident he can display the "right" behaviours. That is the whole point. Stupid guys can be Alpha as well. Usually it is easier for them.

Quote:I really have to wonder, in that case, if game has any worth beyond the basics of "don't be a pussy" and "improve yourself."

Game is a technical skill. We are talking Red Pill here. Game works.

Quote:I want game to be a thing because it means that I can learn how to be attractive, but I am dubious.

Game works.

Post: #185

(12-01-2018 05:33 AM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  

real98 Wrote:what exactly do people consider a chad?

This is Chad Thundercock. The Alpha Buddha.





Pay close attention to his natural frame control and not giving a fuck attitude.

He was just being a stupid teenager. Not that it would be much better but if he hit on her on live telly it would be better.

This one is acting but he surely must be doing a better job.




Is this crackhead the ultimate alpha?

Post: #186

(12-04-2018 03:00 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  Corey did nothing wrong in that video. His behaviour was Alpha, strong frame, whatever you want.

So we agree.

(12-04-2018 06:44 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  Corsega, we agree that Corey displayed an Alpha attitude in the video. We also agree that attitude is of relevance. Are you saying anything beyond that about the importance of attitude?

No. It's just the attitude displayed in that video.

(12-04-2018 03:23 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  Look, if someone can't tell whether a man gets laid well (by attractive women) or doesn't at all - i.e he can't tell which behaviours are truly attractive to women, he should not be lecturing us about Game.

Which behaviors in that video are not attractive to women?

The fixation on Corey and inability to identify anything he did wrong just proves that the point is being missed.

I posted another British example. And Roissy gives loads of examples: skittles guy, 'bring the movies' guy, the girl proclaiming her love for the guy who took a shit with the door open immediately after banging her.

You don't have to adopt an extreme ZFG attitude to get women, but if you're targeting DTF r-selected girls for casual sex, it is very very helpful. Even with k-selected girls you need strong frame and to have dark triad traits, but they need to be used in a different way.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm getting very strong bluepill vibes here. People are writing as though women are rational, as though they don't really like assholes, they're just confused. Women fucking hate nice guys. They sometimes LTR or marry them, but they are not aroused by them.

Post: #187

The theory holds very well, especially now when you can test it yourself on dating apps. Chad refers to a "natural": a tall, good looking guy who doesn't need game.

Being rich does not make you a Chad. There are plenty of rich dudes that don't get any women...Chad doesn't pay for women. He doesn't have sugar babies or gold diggers. Women from all backgrounds want to get pumped and dumped by Chad, many of them richer than him.

Being smart does not make you a Chad either. Plenty of IT nerds go the incel route. Chad is all about looks and that's why Western society has gone to shit. In the past women had to look beyond looks and try to identify some values. Nowadays, "girls just want to have fun".

Post: #188

>>Alpha = Woman desire to have sex with you.
>>Beta = Woman negotiate to have sex with you.

This is very good. My only suggestion would be to qualify: "In the context of PUA/Game, Alpha = ..."

Because there are other contexts. Warren Buffett is a business alpha: in gatherings of business people, he is naturally allowed to let speak first or last, disputes are handed to him for arbitration, etc. All high ranking military officers have alpha traits within the military. And so on. Warren Buffett would not "slay" at a rave, assuming none of the girls know how wealthy he is (and how few years before he is likely to die).

Post: #189

IMO: Even if it's true, the 80/20 is the 80% of all girls, not 80% of the pretty girls. Starting from there, it doesn't worry me.

Of course, what a 'pretty girl' is varies from person to person.

Post: #190

(12-05-2018 06:34 AM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  

Quote:This discussion about Corey Worthington really calls into question the entire concept of game.

No it does not. He basically confirms Game. This discussion is about Red Pill. Two different things.

The fact that you dissect this guy as being an alpha when he clearly is not shows that there is something else going on.

(12-05-2018 06:34 AM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  

Quote:I have dealt with these borderline retarded (as in just above 80 iq), flat affect rejects for a lot of my life. They're the kind of people that like to start shit with the introvert pariahs like me, in high school. They really are too damn stupid to be attributed any form of agency.

Chad is supposed to be a complete loser with low IQ. He is an example to demonstrate that you do not have be James Bond to get laid with hot girls. You can be a loser and still get laid.

That you got beat up by these guys only makes it harder for you to stay objective.

Actually, I ended up beating up these guys because they were too fucking dumb to not cause shit with the big guy who ate lunch alone. It is the fact that these dumbasses threw themselves at me over and over to prove themselves that makes my point. They tried to act tough to impress girls (presumably) or make up for their own shitty existence.

What you're proving isn't that game is some inherent quality; these guys I got into fights with were not the ones getting girls. In fact, the ones that were getting girls, those I would consider "alphas" were always at least pleasant with me and nothing like Corey or the guys you describe. I think what you are misunderstanding is that hot guys can get laid even if they are complete abortions of humanity. You then attribute that to their mythical "game" mindset which you try to emulate.

(12-05-2018 06:34 AM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  

Quote:The fact that there are people saying that he epitomizes what alpha behavior is serves as an indictment of the efficacy of game. When I watch that clip I see someone barely able to grasp his situation, not someone in control.

Chad is an example of a particular type of a natural. A guy who is so stupid that only on accident he can display the "right" behaviours. That is the whole point. Stupid guys can be Alpha as well. Usually it is easier for them.

Once again, I think you are seriously underestimating the halo effect. I have learned the hard way that the "right" behaviors coming from a guy like me are seen as creepy, wrong, etc. Remember Jeremy Meeks? Did he accidentally display the right behaviors to get all those women excited or is he just hot?

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Humans all rationalize the behavior of attractive people favorably, and vice versa. I once heard a saying that still rings true: "Women don't find funny guys attractive, they find attractive guys funny."

(12-05-2018 06:34 AM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  

Quote:I really have to wonder, in that case, if game has any worth beyond the basics of "don't be a pussy" and "improve yourself."

Game is a technical skill. We are talking Red Pill here. Game works.

Quote:I want game to be a thing because it means that I can learn how to be attractive, but I am dubious.

Game works.

But you have nothing here that really proves that. I mean, all of these guys like Roosh are good looking guys (at least I wouldn't complain if I had their faces). My point is that reading up on how Roosh says he became successful shows that the biggest step he made is being confident and focusing on self improvement.

I see very little evidence that the minutia such as how you respond to texts, how you handle dates, how hard you try to ask her out, etc makes any noticeable difference. In fact, I see downright conflicting viewpoints from posters on this forum claiming that they are successful. That's why I take issue with your argument about Corey.

Go back to my acupuncture analogy: game works as far as the basic premise of confidence and self improvement are concerned. Well, I am confident and I am in the process of improving myself. If my "game" starts magically working once I hit my target weight and once I graduate and have a good job, then it's not really the game that did it. Do you see what I am saying?

Post: #191

(12-05-2018 01:07 PM)Shemp Wrote:  >>Alpha = Woman desire to have sex with you.
>>Beta = Woman negotiate to have sex with you.

I agree.

(12-05-2018 01:07 PM)Shemp Wrote:  This is very good. My only suggestion would be to qualify: "In the context of PUA/Game, Alpha = ..."

Because there are other contexts. Warren Buffett is a business alpha: in gatherings of business people, he is naturally allowed to let speak first or last, disputes are handed to him for arbitration, etc. All high ranking military officers have alpha traits within the military. And so on. Warren Buffett would not "slay" at a rave, assuming none of the girls know how wealthy he is (and how few years before he is likely to die).

As another one said above, the alpha/beta redpill/bluepill dichotomy it's not absolute/total in each person, it's a mixture of both.

Post: #192

(12-05-2018 01:10 PM)Zoso Wrote:  IMO: Even if it's true, the 80/20 is the 80% of all girls, not 80% of the pretty girls. Starting from there, it doesn't worry me.

Of course, what a 'pretty girl' is varies from person to person.

Actually that 80% includes a lot more pretty girls than it does ugly girls so it should worry you in the sense that you should work hard to be in the 20%. The prettier the girl the higher tier /higher game guy you need to be in order to land them (generally).

It doesn't actually vary that much from person to person. There's been tons of studies on this, for the most part attractiveness is fairly universal.

You should worry about improving yourself, not finding reasons to not worry about the 80/20 rule. It should be a motivating rule, to get you into that top 20%.

Post: #193

(12-05-2018 02:13 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 01:10 PM)Zoso Wrote:  IMO: Even if it's true, the 80/20 is the 80% of all girls, not 80% of the pretty girls. Starting from there, it doesn't worry me.

Of course, what a 'pretty girl' is varies from person to person.

Actually that 80% includes a lot more pretty girls than it does ugly girls so it should worry you in the sense that you should work hard to be in the 20%. The prettier the girl the higher tier /higher game guy you need to be in order to land them (generally).

It doesn't actually vary that much from person to person. There's been tons of studies on this, for the most part attractiveness is fairly universal.

You should worry about improving yourself, not finding reasons to not worry about the 80/20 rule. It should be a motivating rule, to get you into that top 20%.

Also I agree. Even if I wasn't looking for banging girls. But that last one is false, we all like banging girls!

Post: #194

(12-04-2018 07:00 PM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  Both do not exist. Alpha and Beta are abstractions of qualities. Qualities that can be displayed by anyone. And these qualities and abstraction ONLY relate to sexuality for our purposes. Being a general of army and commanding a million men does not make one Alpha for our purposes. Only the sexual opinion of girls count.

And even if this general be banging a truckload of hotties this does not automagically make him Alpha either. These girls must desire to fuck him. From the bottom of their...hearts. If he pays for it or promises to not shoot them it does not count.

It does not matter how one displays these qualities. Only thing that matters is the result of attracting young and attractive girls. Whether or not you fake it, naturally do it or studied for it.

So you are saying that only the opinion of females count, only what attracts them, whatever it is, that is Alpha? But what about the Beta Bux, women are also attracted to that, which is not Alpha? Obviously not everything females are attracted to is Alpha. Sometimes it's the opposite.

Jefferson Wrote:His frame was strong when the cameras where rolling. This provides us with an example of Chad on video. Rollo is not talking about Corey. He is talking about Chad. The fictional sterotype embodying a specific set of qualities. Qualities that can be defined as Alpha in the same way an apple can be considered a fruit.

Didn't Rollo specifically talk about Corey as being an Alpha-Buddha, no less?

Post: #195

@ Professor When

There are two things being discussed. One is Game and another is Red Pill. When we talk about Corey it is a Red Pill discussion. It has very little or nothing to do with Game. Corey does not have Game. He is not an example for Game. He is at best an example to support some obscure Red Pill theory few people know or care about.

Game is the skill to seduce girls and anyone can learn it. It has been shown to work countless times. And it basically comes down to talking to girls. Something that very few guys do. Game is about approaching girls and beginning a conversation. Trying to attract her and eventually sleeping with her.

(I say it very simplistic here and dislike disclaimers.)

Best thing to do is read as much as possible and then decide for yourself how you think about it. I highly suggest you use search function to find a list of books and other reading materials and then dive in.

For the purpose of attracting and sleeping with girls this whole discussion is irrelevant. It is purely theoretical. Just learn Game and enjoy those hotties.

Post: #196

Jefferson Wrote:So you are saying that only the opinion of females count, only what attracts them, whatever it is, that is Alpha? But what about the Beta Bux, women are also attracted to that, which is not Alpha? Obviously not everything females are attracted to is Alpha. Sometimes it's the opposite.

Yes, only the opinion of females count. Yes. We want to have sex, cuddles, babies and relations with them after all. When we talk about Alpha/Beta it is about the dualistic nature of female sexuality. About her perception of you. How badly does she desire to be pounded by you?

Attraction might be the wrong word to use here. But woman are generally not attracted to Beta males. It is more a trade deal. As I somewhere else wrote in this topic (quote and link below). I put it a bit simplistic, but it should make it clear. Hopefully.

BadBoyGamer Wrote:Woman sexual strategy is dualistic in nature. She has two goals to accomplish to be successful at reproduction and uses different methods to do this. First goal is to stay alive and preferably be healthy. She needs rescourses and protection for this. Like food and someone to kill scary spiders.

Many men are useful to provide food and kill spiders. You do not need very special men to do this. We love sharing our food and showing off our strength by killing spiders. And a good way to attract men is to offer a trade; promise of sex (reproduction possibility) for "food and spider killing services" in return.

This is the "Beta Bux" side of the story.

/thread-71351...pid1894976

Jefferson Wrote:Didn't Rollo specifically talk about Corey as being an Alpha-Buddha, no less?

Yes. That was a mistake. I am correcting it.

EDIT: Let me correct myself for a bit. There is a male dominance hierarchy in place, but for our purposes this is not directly important. This is a whole discussion in itself.

Post: #197

(12-05-2018 05:08 PM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  @ Professor When

There are two things being discussed. One is Game and another is Red Pill. When we talk about Corey it is a Red Pill discussion. It has very little or nothing to do with Game. Corey does not have Game. He is not an example for Game. He is at best an example to support some obscure Red Pill theory few people know or care about.

Game is the skill to seduce girls and anyone can learn it. It has been shown to work countless times. And it basically comes down to talking to girls. Something that very few guys do. Game is about approaching girls and beginning a conversation. Trying to attract her and eventually sleeping with her.

(I say it very simplistic here and dislike disclaimers.)

Best thing to do is read as much as possible and then decide for yourself how you think about it. I highly suggest you use search function to find a list of books and other reading materials and then dive in.

For the purpose of attracting and sleeping with girls this whole discussion is irrelevant. It is purely theoretical. Just learn Game and enjoy those hotties.

Game is a learned behavior that copies the behavior of high value men. It only works because guys are faking a personality of a person that they aren't.. a personality that women are attracted to

Post: #198

(12-05-2018 06:10 PM)tugofpeace Wrote:  Game is a learned behavior that copies the behavior of high value men. It only works because guys are faking a personality of a person that they aren't.. a personality that women are attracted to

The goal is to learn how to be attractive to girls. It is not about faking or emulating a certain personality. It is about making yourself into an attractive person. And this is something that needs to be learned and practiced.

Post: #199

(12-05-2018 06:18 PM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 06:10 PM)tugofpeace Wrote:  Game is a learned behavior that copies the behavior of high value men. It only works because guys are faking a personality of a person that they aren't.. a personality that women are attracted to

The goal is to learn how to be attractive to girls. It is not about faking or emulating a certain personality. It is about making yourself into an attractive person. And this is something that needs to be learned and practiced.

You're both right.

Game is about making yourself into an attractive person, yet many guys (me included) learn best by emulation and "modeling" of attractive behaviors.

Fake it 'til you make it (but don't let it be an excuse for not making it).

Post: #200

(12-05-2018 05:08 PM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  @ Professor When

There are two things being discussed. One is Game and another is Red Pill. When we talk about Corey it is a Red Pill discussion. It has very little or nothing to do with Game. Corey does not have Game. He is not an example for Game. He is at best an example to support some obscure Red Pill theory few people know or care about.

Game is the skill to seduce girls and anyone can learn it. It has been shown to work countless times. And it basically comes down to talking to girls. Something that very few guys do. Game is about approaching girls and beginning a conversation. Trying to attract her and eventually sleeping with her.

(I say it very simplistic here and dislike disclaimers.)

Best thing to do is read as much as possible and then decide for yourself how you think about it. I highly suggest you use search function to find a list of books and other reading materials and then dive in.

For the purpose of attracting and sleeping with girls this whole discussion is irrelevant. It is purely theoretical. Just learn Game and enjoy those hotties.

That does make more sense. I'm wholly willing to accept that I don't understand the finer distinctions, but that's why I'm asking for tangible examples. As I see it, there is some conflation of the two concepts: if alphas are men that women want, then calling Corey an example of an alpha implies that men like him are what women want.

Or are you talking about the 80/20 thing being the obscure redpill idea? That I totally understand. As I see it, it's just illustrative of the fact that technological and social progression has cut off avenues by which many men could achieve attractiveness (i.e. being a provider) and therefore allowed women to gravitate towards more skewed metric such as physical attractiveness. I'm sure that if asked, any guy would want a harem of 10s attending to his every whim. But the reality of the effort involved, question of ulterior motives, and the natural upper limit of ones potential keeps men more realistic. In a "perfect" world, from a women's perspective, they would only sleep with the top men. They just have less reality keeping them in check with dial-a-dick existing. I certainly hope no one thinks it's literally 20% of men sleeping with most women.



But, on the idea of desirability, I believe it is necessary to be critical of what makes game. I can give you a very unique perspective on this: I'm a 28 year old virgin, but due to a few hormonal issues that I've recently gotten under control, I had no actual sex drive. I wasn't some sperg failing at asking women out during high school and, if you'll take my word on it, it was not an issue of sour grapes. Most of my life I've been a funny, confident person. I was just unable to relate to people on more than a surface level, but everyone got along with me when I had to interact with them and they seemed to like me. Then I started trying to ask women out.

The punchline is that keeping up that same confident, joking persona gave me zero success. It was a palpable change in tone when I moved from just casual conversation to asking a woman out. I wasn't doing it in a creepy way - really simple stuff like "let's go get a drink/coffee/movie." I also weighed 480lbs at the time. I'd say connecting the dots is rather simple here. I also notice a conspicuous lack of ugly PUAs with any success (I saw your thread about 'the rat,' but I'd like to see more than hearsay). Put this together and that is what casts doubt on the actual effectiveness of game. And then we come full circle to the 80/20 thing: the small subset of guys that have the capacity to attract women naturally must have a fairly large intersection with those that "just need game."

I will keep reading this forum and game literature while I focus on getting my shit together, but I will also interrogate the facts and assertions presented.