Post: #26

GT777733, sorry I thought I posted a response earlier already but it didn't go through.

Yes people in Melbourne are very cliquey and yes it's hard to get to the hottest girls. They are often shielded by their social circle, who act more like a cult protecting their most beautiful maidens. This is why my criteria of picking a pretty and happy girl nearly always resulted in me dating a foreign girl. My wife was the exception though.

Even though my wife is 3rd gen Australian (of mixed European bloods), I thought she was foreign when I first met her, because she was happy, open to meet people and beautiful. Those things don't often come made in Australia! She actually has a bit of an accent, which always make people ask where she's from, more than they ask me, and I'm Asian.

When I met her at a formal ball, she was shielded by a round table of miserable Aussie hens, yet I smoothly cold approached anyway. There were so many cockblocking attempts that night from her friends, despite the obvious fact that she was really enjoying herself, they'd try to tell her that they wanted to come over to rescue her as she looked like she needed help. After she was completely swept off her feet by me, she sneaked behind their backs to give me her phone number. She didn't tell them about me for months to protect our relationship, and eventually she dropped all of the negative ones following my lead to remove toxic people from our life.

Anyway, had my wife been foreign, like the previous girls I dated, I'd been fully prepared to deal with the residency situation. I was even setting myself up to move overseas, and I know international couples who worked through it just fine. The girls I dated were Europeans or North Americans, sorting out visas wouldn't be too hard.

@Ouroboros: I went to couple dancing venues of many styles: latin, ballroom, swing, etc. I picked the venue based on how much I like the music (often a live band), and enjoy the atmosphere. I didn't need a room full of hot girls to choose the venue, that's not gonna happen in Australia anyway. However, when I go to a venue where I'm really enjoying myself, there is always at least one pretty girl I can approach, and often there is zero competition for her attention. It's all about hunting instincts. My best man is single, and always tries to find dance venues with the highest number of hot girls, which often there's none, or there is too much competition for him to handle. He went with me and my wife to a place once full of old people, and he was just about to bolt out of boredom, when I pointed out that there were two young sweet pretty girls here in the crowd who had no man to talk to except some elderly gentlemen and a bunch of churchian soyboys. Sadly as it turned out, my boy is not that good either even when there's no competition around and no cockblocking.

Here's another tip: in Australia, you gotta go younger, like 18-23, when the girl is still at uni, tafe or whatever she's doing after high school. That's before she gets locked up in stupid social cliques and contaminated by this toxic culture which is all out to destroy her femininity. I live and work in the inner suburbs so very close to the major uni campuses, and I run into a decent one or two (at least upon glance, as I'm married now) every day while walking around. They're out there, but you probably won't find them if you play the numbers through online dating, clubs or other popular places. Also, they are for LTRs, not really for casual (you can do that with this type of girls, sure, but what are you trying to do with your life?)

Post: #27

Me too and it's so damn frustrating. Once you've been with a high quality girl, you want a girl on par or higher. I wish I could be attracted to the hogs and sea of 5s on Tinder but my conflict is like yours. I hardly ever get laid anymore because of this. Gotta keep hunting I guess.

Post: #28

(12-02-2018 03:33 AM)ISR92 Wrote:  Me too and it's so damn frustrating. Once you've been with a high quality girl, you want a girl on par or higher. I wish I could be attracted to the hogs and sea of 5s on Tinder but my conflict is like yours. I hardly ever get laid anymore because of this. Gotta keep hunting I guess.

I totally agree.

This is why i dont care about the rule 80/20 and Chad theory.

I remember my last LTR. Me 20 and her 24. For me she was a solid 7.5. Beauty and personality.
It was 5 years ago. After it ended, I didnt find toó much girls that got me excited.
I prefer do my shit than entertain some selfish girls.

As said above, you want equal or better partner.
Really, i had to get my standars lower to start again dating more. And im not saying that i am a model, not at all.

Tinder is bullsh¡t. I dont care what 1-5.5 girls think about me.

Post: #29

Was just having this discussion last night. A girl I'm friends with is smoking hot and banging this guy. Whatever. He has no job.

Want to get more girls? Be a bartender, be unemployed, do whatever. Get a lot of tattoos. If that's the life you want, haveatcha. Go be a club promoter or something.

Having a good life isn't necessarily one of getting a lot of girls.

I wish I could advocate for "fairness". Go to school, get a degree, get a job, buy a house, smash poon.

It doesn't work like that.

Post: #30

(11-01-2018 06:04 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  This thread is why god created alcohol. Drink enough and it solves your problem...

Sounds like your issue is that you're still rooted in a location that doesn't offer the market you desire. I've been there, where you stay in the "comfort zone" location wise and suffer the marketplace factors. If you're in a bad market then you need to change that. Plenty of other places have the market you're looking for and will change the dynamics. You're the guy building a great business in a market with limited consumers instead of moving that business to a market loaded with consumers.

sorry it was a few days late

Post: #31

(11-03-2018 01:21 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  Agree with you dude.

You mention self improvement which increases your value, and should theoretically open your access to higher value girls.

But, I think there is one final level that is sounds like you are yet to fully become aware of and comprehend.

Value is just one part of the equation (things like looks, fitness, intelligence, having money sorted, funny/interesting etc.). The other part is suitability for a LTR (things like sanity, emotional stability, emotional intelligence and awareness, family and friends situation, habits, how much her past impacts her etc.).

You can get guys who are into self improvement, but aren't necessarily heavy into red pill.

The more red pill you get about female psychology, behavior, biology, spotting red flags, screening - the more you see things in 'high value' girls that makes them unsuitable to keep around in your life as a romantic partner.

Even if you find a high value girl, my experience in this day and age with every single girl I've met, especially in the West, is that there is a 99.9999% chance you find some type of deal breaker red flag, or she fails the screening process.

I haven't been able to solve this yet.

I do think though that the closer you get towards your 30's and 40's, if you want kids in a traditional relationship, you have to put serious thought into possibly sacrificing looks (in the West) or some type of value (might be lack of money if she comes from a poor part of the EU) for a girl with some morals and values that presents a lower risk to blowing up your personal situation and family.

Going further on that - if you do get into an LTR at some point, I think you're absolutely batshit crazy or completely ignorant if you live in the West and either get married full stop, or get married and don't have an absolute watertight fool proof pre nup (if one exists). I'd be having that conversation super early with any potential partner.

Having said all this - it's not an excuse to stop improving yourself and being positive and keep it moving in life. You never know what might happen. (I need to remind myself of this more often)

Just some reality to consider.

More great insights, GT. Well stated.

I emphasized the parts I think are your gold. "High value" is a much confused term, since we have lost semblance of what true femininity is anymore, and just substituted "hot." I have written about this elsewhere. Because of the Coolidge Effect, real feminine and caretaking traits are much more desirable, and obviously longer lasting.

The real conundrum is that if you are less concerned with hotness or looks, as I have said and DT et al agree, the issue in places like the west are the dearth of ~7 girls who provide those feminine characteristics. You're left with nearly impossible 8+ that you likely don't want (as Delta suggests) for LTR, or ~5 or below that will probably do everything in the world for you because you are so much a higher SMV --- but how do you take seriously a girl who has such a lower SMV, and for the long term? Man, it's brutal. This is where the trade has to be for youth, the ultimate biological weapon.

Post: #32

(11-06-2018 06:22 PM)jcardial Wrote:  Nightlife/Online dating:
Your conception of how picky women are is biased. You cite bars and online dating but they are disproportionately frequented by less desirable women (at least the ones open to meeting men). Since it is difficult and inherently higher risk to meet a quality guy in these places (reputations and intentions are much more nebulous than in a social circle), it is not at all a go-to method for the highest quality women.

Online and nightlife are far more convenient hunting grounds for men because the physical appearance of a woman is more or less sufficient for attraction and risk isn't nearly as much of an issue for men. It is well documented that women raise their standards quite a bit for a short term hookup where as men are almost universally willing to lower their standards quite a lot. It's no surprise since women expose themselves to pregnancy, possible violent abuse and bigger reputation damage. Of course the public meat market venues are mostly packed with thirsty men and end up lopsided in favor of the women.

The upper echelon of women:
A dismal meat market economy doesn't translate to women having insane standards in all contexts. The top 10-20% of women are regularly invited into social circles and private events where they are pursued by worthy male counterparts in much lower risk scenarios (e.g. introductions from trusted friends and colleagues). The same guy who an attractive woman openly talks to at one of these events might have gotten a bitchy rejection in a bar or a flake on Tinder because she was there just for the attention fill.

When you date an even moderately attractive girl you will notice she gets invited to more private parties than she can even go to. An 8+'s phone lights up like a Christmas tree 24/7 with invites from both men and women. She has very little need to risk mingling with total randoms and it likely takes a guy well above her level to justify the risk. If she does end up at a bar or club, it's usually to socialize with a group and not with the plan of meeting randoms (like it is for 99% of men). An average or slightly above average girl on the other hand is much more likely to get ignored at said parties if she gets invited at all. She is far more compelled to throw caution to the wind and hit the bar or online dating where better looking guys give her plenty of attention at least in the short term.

Social circle:
Even the few guys who are getting attractive women in nightlife are usually leveraging social circle to some degree. The best women care an order of magnitude more about who you know and what those people are saying about you than whether your body fat is 13% or 9%. Obviously being in good shape is an advantage but keep in mind that it is in fairly high supply for women since most young guys lift and keep their body fat in line. Being built like an ancient Greek statue is pretty useless in practice if you have limited or no access. The best access comes with the best social connections, which take time and skill to build.

The attractive women are hanging out somewhere, but if you come across as thirsty and a bit frustrated like the OP most cool guys aren't going to even consider inviting you to their parties. Why would they if you're going to take but not give anything in return? Become the guy who clearly brings something of value to the table, not the calculating and overly entitled guy focused on getting what he thinks he "deserves."

While some physical attraction is necessary for the best women, it's not nearly as much of a sufficient factor that it is for men. Humans evolved in social hierarchies and your social status is a huge factor regardless of how much you've self improved in a vacuum. The best women want to date the guy who is respected and desired by other high value people because it is hard evidence that he carries genes that are built for real world success. Indecisive by nature, women gladly outsource most of the decision regarding who they date to the social hierarchy. Online dating or bars thwarts this point of reference quite a bit unless you are rolling with a celebrity entourage or the biggest promoter in your city. A woman not being able to see a man's social circle is akin to a man not being able to see a woman's body.


Cliff notes: Bars and online dating are typically avoided or not taken seriously by the top women and have always been saturated with thirsty men looking for a convenient shortcut. If you're a top guy you will almost always be slumming it by default. Networking and leveraging social circle are the only tried and true ways to reliably get an "equal" or to do well for yourself with only rare exceptions.

One of the top posts I've ever read to summarize what's going on, especially nowadays --- not that it wasn't always the case, with a few differing situations or variables. Well done, jcardial

My question here at RVF has always been about the dreaded "access" and I believe it is truly an impossible question to answer in any really satisfactory way. It also depends heavily on what exactly the man is looking for "access" wise. I'm pretty much landing at the conclusion that a different market with different variables would allow for me the "access" that I desire, indeed. Also, not easy to do but when what one considers 7s are really hard to come by (my feeling, I'm American, and even in a big city), along with several other characteristics that the average american woman lacks, it's become more and more clear.

Post: #33

(12-02-2018 12:38 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  Want to get more girls? Be a bartender, be unemployed, do whatever. Get a lot of tattoos. If that's the life you want, haveatcha. Go be a club promoter or something.

You forgot get a big dog....

Post: #34

And drive a big truck and be 6'2"

On a side note- > everybody I know who has gotten tattoos primarily to get girls (everyone not in the military, a lifelong fraternity, and partially people who get prison tattoos, special mention for memorial tattoos) has been so fucking bitchmade i honestly feel bad for em. Shits permanent man. I STILL see assholes getting tribal tattoos.

Please don't get tattoos for women. Please do things for yourself.

Post: #35

A self respecting gentleman can only fuck so many pigs before he degrades himself and loses sight of why he worked hard to improve himself in the first place.

Post: #36

(12-02-2018 12:38 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  Was just having this discussion last night. A girl I'm friends with is smoking hot and banging this guy. Whatever. He has no job.

Want to get more girls? Be a bartender, be unemployed, do whatever. Get a lot of tattoos. If that's the life you want, haveatcha. Go be a club promoter or something.

Having a good life isn't necessarily one of getting a lot of girls.

I wish I could advocate for "fairness". Go to school, get a degree, get a job, buy a house, smash poon.

It doesn't work like that.

I have a lot more dating opportunities than the average guy - so I see this from an objective viewpoint.

You're right.

Girls don't reward fair - they reward how you make them feel (and in this day and age where girls have so many of their needs already met - how you fit into their life is a big one).

It's not bad - it's just the way they are wired.

This is also what logical, highly virtuous guys struggle with. It's goes against all their personal code to lie, be indifferent, manipulate her etc. - but they don't understand that she ultimately has this story running through her head and these emotions she's feeling - and that's the only thing that matters. That's just the way it is - nothing you do or think will change that.

Personally, as I'm getting older, I'm being more and more brutally honest with women, calling them out in an articulate way about their behavior, and making them meet my values if they want time with me.

I either lose them immediately, or they stay and absolutely love me.

Unless I'm horny, I can't jump through hoops for sex anymore like I did in my early/mid 20's.

I feel the disrespect for myself too much after I've done it - especially if we hook up and I don't end up getting sex.

Post: #37

Quote:This is also what logical, highly virtuous guys struggle with. It's goes against all their personal code to lie, be indifferent, manipulate her etc. - but they don't understand that she ultimately has this story running through her head and these emotions she's feeling - and that's the only thing that matters. That's just the way it is - nothing you do or think will change that.

How did you come up with this? I'd say most men here who are highly successful with women are also very honest with them. Or to elaborate further, they're very honest with themselves about what they want from women, and women can get along with the program, or get lost. Also, "indifference" is simply having a strong frame where you don't over-react to women's fluctuating emotional states, and don't mistake leading for "manipulating".

I can't remember where I learned this ages ago, but essentially when a boy grows up to become a man, he needs to be both good at being a man, and being a good man. Most boys in our modern society never got taught how to be good at being a man, only how to be good and virtuous (if they're lucky). The former is the key to being attractive to women (among many things), the latter is the key to having an honourable life with no regrets and building a solid legacy. A "bad boy" or "jerk" is simply one who's at least competent at being a man, in a world where most of his competitors are taught to be completely useless at being a man. They can be bad, but at least they behave more masculine, which women crave due to the complete lack of masculinity in their social surroundings. Confusing the two is what make guys think they have to be bad to be attractive to women. No, they need to be more masculine. The bad or good part (virtues) is something else, nothing to do with how attractive you are to them.

Post: #38

I was referring to the average logical, highly virtuous guy (who usually doesn't understand he has to get out of logical thinking mode and start talking to her in a way that builds comfort and attraction - talk bullshit about her friends, pets, family, swap crazy stories, tell jokes, tease her, get her laughing etc.) - not guys on this forum who obviously have a good understanding of the dating market, dating strategy and attraction fundamentals.

RE honesty - how honest you can be with majority of girls in the current dating market is generally directly tied to your core value either on the surface level (like looks or status, or if you have some really really good charisma and social skills), or in the environment you and the girl are in (situational value).

(the perfect example of this is Roosh in his old place in Poland. You think he could have told most of the socialist type girls he banged that he had a Donald Trump picture on the wall? Hell no. It goes against everything they are socially conditioned to believe, and everything their friends and family talk about. Most girls these days are so far from independent thinkers, it's laughable. You have to bullshit and lie to them about a lot of stuff and just keep the conversation light, fairly positive, non critical and fairly scripted)

Good luck playing the nice guy and being straightforward if you have average leverage or average value in the first place. There's 100 other guys hitting her up she can replace you with immediately. When you have average leverage or you are not meeting through social circle where you are pre warmed and validated, game only works to a point (which is why the flake rate and time investment can be so high with cold approach and cold game)....game definitely works - but it has limitations.

I think that's why so many guys start learning about pickup and dating with companies like RSD first - most average men without a big social circle spend a lot of their 20's building their life, themselves, their internal value, and just hustling (if they are smart). Girls aren't attracted to that phase - they are attracted to the finished product, or to good vibes (which is exactly what RSD teaches at it's core - it doesn't matter who you are or where you're at in life, anyone can create short term good vibes and fun and short term attraction). So, to get leverage when your core value is lower, you have to essentially pretend to be something you're not and manufacture that good vibe to get in her pants. When i said lie and manipulate - i didn't mean it in a destructive way - i meant it in a way to progress the interaction and escalate it as necessary. And, when I said indifference - I meant it as a comparison to showing genuine/100% true feelings or thoughts. I find that you can only let your guard down with girls either once you've slept with them (and they start backwards rationalising you as a dating partner so they don't feel like a slut, and once their oxytocin starts kicking in), or if your value is so insanely high compared to theirs that it's clear they are chasing you. Give most girls an inch of vulnerability or truth - and they take a mile.

As you get older and you build more obvious core value and you get smarter with how you position yourself in the dating market and in real life, you can rely far less on external pickup tactics, and far more on who you really are - because that's attractive in itself.

At that point you can be more selective and honest too.

Not all girls are like the ones I described above - but definitely in the West where I am, majority of them are. It's unreal how cold some of them get when they sense an ounce of desperation or weakness, or the interaction goes anything less than perfect. A lot of it can depend on their mood at the time, and the status of their penis pipeline too.

Post: #39

There's being honest, and there's being charmless, and there's also being a blabber mouth.

I'm always honest about what I stand for. I may not lead the interaction with "hey guess what I love President Donald Trump and I think women should stay at home and not have a career" but I never say anything that goes against what I believe in. However, when dealing with women, I coat everything in playfulness and charm, not being autistic and argumentative. Women are not men, we don't talk to them in the same way we talk to a guy.

Honesty to me is also not running your mouth on all your pet topics (especially politics and social commentaries) all the time. That's charmless and silly. I once told my wife that I am an open book, it just takes great intelligence to read me, and if you read then ask sincere questions, I will always answer honestly. I'm a man, not a gossipy woman, I don't vomit out all information on first dates. I listen, and I listen well, I add comments to encourage women to talk more, because they end up telling me everything I need to know about them, and they also think I'm awesome because I let them talk about their most favourite topic.

One of my earliest Game memories as a young guy was walking up to a table of chatty vegetarian girls wearing the Maddox's For Every Animal You Don't Eat, I'm Gonna Eat Three t-shirt and a massive grin, asking one of them to dance with me. I ended up dating that girl for a short while too. She was so obsessed with me that she tried to find herself another Asian guy and dress him up just like the way I do, except obviously he turned out to be a complete pussy under her thumb.

One Swedish girl I dated could never get me to agree with her that men and women are equal. She was frustrated about that but also couldn't help but laugh because the way I worded my objections was always humourous. Last time she visited my city, she really wanted to catch up and pulled out all the stops, but I was already with my wife and turned her down.

With my wife, on our third date, we talked about how it is Biblical that men should lead women, just like in dancing, and any other way wouldn't work. It was a very important conversation that led me to seriously consider her as marriage material. I was on the Trump train straight away and I told her (girlfriend then) to look up to Melania as a role model, which she did, and still does.

I live in a very socialist city. The vast majority of girls I've ever met and dated think that I'm sexist, a little racist, somewhat homophobic, very anti-feminist and a whole lot of other things they officially disapprove of, but they think I'm also charming and the most interesting guy they've met. Deep down they know that I may poke fun at their silly socialist leanings and don't take their ideologies seriously, but I love their woman nature and women love a man who holds his frame and treats them like little girls. Women are very sensitive to that, just like they can sniff it out if a guy agrees with all of their ideologies but secretly is frustrated because he can't get laid and hates women (aka all male feminists).

I'm Asian, 5'7" or 5'6" after squatting, hairy, muscular but not abs poppin' everywhere, don't have huge social circles because I'm an introvert. Yet the thought that I had to censor myself in a certain way because the chick could replace me with 100s of other guys straight away never crossed my mind, because I know she couldn't. You can chalk that down to irrational self confidence, but I really do not care about that one bit, and I know the girl would always miss my presence in her life when I'm out. You either truly believe in your self worth, or you don't. She will believe whatever you believe in.

I don't subscribe to this "letting your guard down once you've slept with the girl". I'm always strong, always a rock for the woman to lean on. It's many times more important when you are in a serious relationship or marriage. It is the man's role to be strong, if you have weaknesses you should work on them. If you need to confess some failings or emotional vulnerabilities, go talk to another trusted man and solve it. Don't lean on your woman to solve your problems for you.

Post: #40

(12-04-2018 05:48 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  There's being honest, and there's being charmless, and there's also being a blabber mouth.

I'm always honest about what I stand for. I may not lead the interaction with "hey guess what I love President Donald Trump and I think women should stay at home and not have a career" but I never say anything that goes against what I believe in. However, when dealing with women, I coat everything in playfulness and charm, not being autistic and argumentative. Women are not men, we don't talk to them in the same way we talk to a guy.

Honesty to me is also not running your mouth on all your pet topics (especially politics and social commentaries) all the time. That's charmless and silly. I once told my wife that I am an open book, it just takes great intelligence to read me, and if you read then ask sincere questions, I will always answer honestly. I'm a man, not a gossipy woman, I don't vomit out all information on first dates. I listen, and I listen well, I add comments to encourage women to talk more, because they end up telling me everything I need to know about them, and they also think I'm awesome because I let them talk about their most favourite topic.

One of my earliest Game memories as a young guy was walking up to a table of chatty vegetarian girls wearing the Maddox's For Every Animal You Don't Eat, I'm Gonna Eat Three t-shirt and a massive grin, asking one of them to dance with me. I ended up dating that girl for a short while too. She was so obsessed with me that she tried to find herself another Asian guy and dress him up just like the way I do, except obviously he turned out to be a complete pussy under her thumb.

One Swedish girl I dated could never get me to agree with her that men and women are equal. She was frustrated about that but also couldn't help but laugh because the way I worded my objections was always humourous. Last time she visited my city, she really wanted to catch up and pulled out all the stops, but I was already with my wife and turned her down.

With my wife, on our third date, we talked about how it is Biblical that men should lead women, just like in dancing, and any other way wouldn't work. It was a very important conversation that led me to seriously consider her as marriage material. I was on the Trump train straight away and I told her (girlfriend then) to look up to Melania as a role model, which she did, and still does.

I live in a very socialist city. The vast majority of girls I've ever met and dated think that I'm sexist, a little racist, somewhat homophobic, very anti-feminist and a whole lot of other things they officially disapprove of, but they think I'm also charming and the most interesting guy they've met. Deep down they know that I may poke fun at their silly socialist leanings and don't take their ideologies seriously, but I love their woman nature and women love a man who holds his frame and treats them like little girls. Women are very sensitive to that, just like they can sniff it out if a guy agrees with all of their ideologies but secretly is frustrated because he can't get laid and hates women (aka all male feminists).

I'm Asian, 5'7" or 5'6" after squatting, hairy, muscular but not abs poppin' everywhere, don't have huge social circles because I'm an introvert. Yet the thought that I had to censor myself in a certain way because the chick could replace me with 100s of other guys straight away never crossed my mind, because I know she couldn't. You can chalk that down to irrational self confidence, but I really do not care about that one bit, and I know the girl would always miss my presence in her life when I'm out. You either truly believe in your self worth, or you don't. She will believe whatever you believe in.

I don't subscribe to this "letting your guard down once you've slept with the girl". I'm always strong, always a rock for the woman to lean on. It's many times more important when you are in a serious relationship or marriage. It is the man's role to be strong, if you have weaknesses you should work on them. If you need to confess some failings or emotional vulnerabilities, go talk to another trusted man and solve it. Don't lean on your woman to solve your problems for you.

Have you ever heard of reducing a discussion to absurdities? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

That's what you are doing when you take one name I say and write - "hey guess what I love President Donald Trump and I think women should stay at home and not have a career" (I don't think even the most autistic person on the planet would sit down on a date and say that to be fair)

You take one thing someone says and take it to the extreme, and it's a way of making the other person's feedback sound or look absurd (I don't think you are doing it purposely - but you are doing it).

One of my best friends always used to do that with me until I understood what he was doing, explained it to him, and now he doesn't do it anymore.

With the rest of what you've said - you've misinterpreted or misunderstood what I've said.

I almost get the feeling I've hit on some sort of deep seated insecurity or a nerve you have.

If there's something you'd like me answer specifically, I can do that.

Post: #41

@strikeback

One other thing...

I have nothing against you man. You sound like a good dude

But, from reading what you wrote, I pick up this...

You genuinely believe these women see you individually as special.

This is what you feel from the the way they act around you and the things they tell you, so it must be true right? (women are the MASTERS at stroking their man's ego)

Wrong.

What these women actually like is the way you make them feel.

There's a gigantic difference.

Multiple men can make a women feel good - not just one man. Feelings are 100% replaceable.

Other men may not be able to make these women feel exactly how you make them feel - but they can certainly make these girls feel similar to that feeling. (They just aren't telling you this, or you aren't digging deep enough to find this out)

And close enough is good enough for most women. You just have to meet a certain threshold.

Women are super fluid. They bounce from good vibe to good vibe - whether it's with the same person or different people.

I think a lot of even high value men with wives would be absolutely shocked and dumbfounded how quickly their wives could move on from them because of this.

The lives of famous people are littered with this exact thing

Does all of this mean women are evil? No

But, if you are going to have 'irrational confidence' - have the true understanding of a woman's nature as well, and learn that just because you are replaceable, it doesn't mean you are any less of a man - it's just the way the world works. No man is exempt to that

Post: #42

(11-06-2018 06:22 PM)jcardial Wrote:  Nightlife/Online dating:
Your conception of how picky women are is biased. You cite bars and online dating but they are disproportionately frequented by less desirable women (at least the ones open to meeting men). Since it is difficult and inherently higher risk to meet a quality guy in these places (reputations and intentions are much more nebulous than in a social circle), it is not at all a go-to method for the highest quality women.

Online and nightlife are far more convenient hunting grounds for men because the physical appearance of a woman is more or less sufficient for attraction and risk isn't nearly as much of an issue for men. It is well documented that women raise their standards quite a bit for a short term hookup where as men are almost universally willing to lower their standards quite a lot. It's no surprise since women expose themselves to pregnancy, possible violent abuse and bigger reputation damage. Of course the public meat market venues are mostly packed with thirsty men and end up lopsided in favor of the women.

The upper echelon of women:
A dismal meat market economy doesn't translate to women having insane standards in all contexts. The top 10-20% of women are regularly invited into social circles and private events where they are pursued by worthy male counterparts in much lower risk scenarios (e.g. introductions from trusted friends and colleagues). The same guy who an attractive woman openly talks to at one of these events might have gotten a bitchy rejection in a bar or a flake on Tinder because she was there just for the attention fill.

When you date an even moderately attractive girl you will notice she gets invited to more private parties than she can even go to. An 8+'s phone lights up like a Christmas tree 24/7 with invites from both men and women. She has very little need to risk mingling with total randoms and it likely takes a guy well above her level to justify the risk. If she does end up at a bar or club, it's usually to socialize with a group and not with the plan of meeting randoms (like it is for 99% of men). An average or slightly above average girl on the other hand is much more likely to get ignored at said parties if she gets invited at all. She is far more compelled to throw caution to the wind and hit the bar or online dating where better looking guys give her plenty of attention at least in the short term.

Social circle:
Even the few guys who are getting attractive women in nightlife are usually leveraging social circle to some degree. The best women care an order of magnitude more about who you know and what those people are saying about you than whether your body fat is 13% or 9%. Obviously being in good shape is an advantage but keep in mind that it is in fairly high supply for women since most young guys lift and keep their body fat in line. Being built like an ancient Greek statue is pretty useless in practice if you have limited or no access. The best access comes with the best social connections, which take time and skill to build.

The attractive women are hanging out somewhere, but if you come across as thirsty and a bit frustrated like the OP most cool guys aren't going to even consider inviting you to their parties. Why would they if you're going to take but not give anything in return? Become the guy who clearly brings something of value to the table, not the calculating and overly entitled guy focused on getting what he thinks he "deserves."

While some physical attraction is necessary for the best women, it's not nearly as much of a sufficient factor that it is for men. Humans evolved in social hierarchies and your social status is a huge factor regardless of how much you've self improved in a vacuum. The best women want to date the guy who is respected and desired by other high value people because it is hard evidence that he carries genes that are built for real world success. Indecisive by nature, women gladly outsource most of the decision regarding who they date to the social hierarchy. Online dating or bars thwarts this point of reference quite a bit unless you are rolling with a celebrity entourage or the biggest promoter in your city. A woman not being able to see a man's social circle is akin to a man not being able to see a woman's body.


Cliff notes: Bars and online dating are typically avoided or not taken seriously by the top women and have always been saturated with thirsty men looking for a convenient shortcut. If you're a top guy you will almost always be slumming it by default. Networking and leveraging social circle are the only tried and true ways to reliably get an "equal" or to do well for yourself with only rare exceptions.

I think you just described why fame and/or social status game trumps most other forms of game (when competing for the high-end women). The charity ball circuit & even the bottle service segment of nightclubs (catering to groups / celebrities, etc.) all try their best to milk this reality.

Again, a lot of this doesn't matter as long as you keep your sights set on lower or mid-tier women. Or women with some kind of baggage (ie. they are old & know they have hit the wall). If you happened to get lucky & find an 8 that happens to dig your look or swag (maybe you both are of the exact same ethnicity or tribe, got the exact same music tastes, etc.), then this status thing might not matter as much.

It matters the most with women that are all about the "see & be seen" mentality. The ones that place high stock value on their social circles.

Post: #43

This thread comes in a perfect timing since I just had this realization this week.

In the beginning you only have physical standards, you want a cute girl with a good body.

But then you will be longing for femininity. Meaning if the girl is a perfectly fuckable 7 or 8, but she is a total feminazi liberal bitch, you wont be able to get a boner.

Last step is where I am at now (unfortunately or fortunately) : physicality, feminity and personallity. Meaning if the girl is cute, is a sweetheart, but is just not clever or only have these average NPC thoughts, you cannot get a boner anymore.

IE: recently I was hosting a russian girl at my place. Super cutie, and obviously super feminine. But she was just not bright or cultivated enough.
The weird thing is, that lack of personality actually translated to her loosing attractiveness points, literally. I would look at her and physically think she is less pretty.

Post: #44

GT777733, not trying to twist anything on purpose, nor feeling hurties, no worries. I just wanted to offer a different mindset, a more positive, more successful one when it comes to women. I'm all for Red Pilling people, but the colour Red is starting to look blacker and blacker these days on RVF.

(12-04-2018 07:25 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  @strikeback

One other thing...

I have nothing against you man. You sound like a good dude

But, from reading what you wrote, I pick up this...

You genuinely believe these women see you individually as special.

This is what you feel from the the way they act around you and the things they tell you, so it must be true right? (women are the MASTERS at stroking their man's ego)

Wrong.

What these women actually like is the way you make them feel.

There's a gigantic difference.

Multiple men can make a women feel good - not just one man. Feelings are 100% replaceable.

Other men may not be able to make these women feel exactly how you make them feel - but they can certainly make these girls feel similar to that feeling. (They just aren't telling you this, or you aren't digging deep enough to find this out)

And close enough is good enough for most women. You just have to meet a certain threshold.

Women are super fluid. They bounce from good vibe to good vibe - whether it's with the same person or different people.

I think a lot of even high value men with wives would be absolutely shocked and dumbfounded how quickly their wives could move on from them because of this.

The lives of famous people are littered with this exact thing

Does all of this mean women are evil? No

But, if you are going to have 'irrational confidence' - have the true understanding of a woman's nature as well, and learn that just because you are replaceable, it doesn't mean you are any less of a man - it's just the way the world works. No man is exempt to that

Ever heard of Alpha Widows?

In my dating history, I have created a few of those. Once you have one of those in your life, you will understand exactly how strong an imprint a man can leave on a woman's heart that no other man, even objectively much better ones, can hope to do.

At the core, this is the Game principle called You Are The Prize, or the Prize mentality. A man who is the Prize is irreplaceable in a woman's heart and soul. She's bonded strongly to him. When that man leaves her life, it leaves a void no other man, even better ones, can fill.

This is what I call the Alpha Widow anthem (Why Can't He Be You):

Quote:He takes me to the places you and I used to go
He tells me over and over that he loves me so
He gives me love that I never got from you
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you
He never fails to call and tell me I'm on his mind
And I'm lucky to have such a guy, I hear it all the time
And he does all the things that you would never do
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you
He's not the one who dominates my mind and soul
And I should love him so 'cause he loves me, I know
But his kisses leave me cold
He sends me flowers, calls on the hour, just to prove his love
And my friends say when he's around that I'm all he speaks of
And he does all the things that you would never do
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you
He's not the one who dominates my mind and soul
And I should love him so 'cause he loves me, I know
But his kisses leave me cold
He sends me flowers, calls on the hour, just to prove his love
And my friends say when he's around that I'm all he speaks of
And he does all the things that you would never do
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you

Note the line "dominates my mind and soul". Huge difference between that and men having high values, or men running regular Game. Once a woman submits completely to a man who dominates her, it is a very different level of Game.

You can go ahead and believe that you are replaceable, because women will then treat you exactly that way. Or you can choose a different mentality and see women treat you like their Prize.

Post: #45

(12-04-2018 05:49 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  GT777733, not trying to twist anything on purpose, nor feeling hurties, no worries. I just wanted to offer a different mindset, a more positive, more successful one when it comes to women. I'm all for Red Pilling people, but the colour Red is starting to look blacker and blacker these days on RVF.

(12-04-2018 07:25 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  @strikeback

One other thing...

I have nothing against you man. You sound like a good dude

But, from reading what you wrote, I pick up this...

You genuinely believe these women see you individually as special.

This is what you feel from the the way they act around you and the things they tell you, so it must be true right? (women are the MASTERS at stroking their man's ego)

Wrong.

What these women actually like is the way you make them feel.

There's a gigantic difference.

Multiple men can make a women feel good - not just one man. Feelings are 100% replaceable.

Other men may not be able to make these women feel exactly how you make them feel - but they can certainly make these girls feel similar to that feeling. (They just aren't telling you this, or you aren't digging deep enough to find this out)

And close enough is good enough for most women. You just have to meet a certain threshold.

Women are super fluid. They bounce from good vibe to good vibe - whether it's with the same person or different people.

I think a lot of even high value men with wives would be absolutely shocked and dumbfounded how quickly their wives could move on from them because of this.

The lives of famous people are littered with this exact thing

Does all of this mean women are evil? No

But, if you are going to have 'irrational confidence' - have the true understanding of a woman's nature as well, and learn that just because you are replaceable, it doesn't mean you are any less of a man - it's just the way the world works. No man is exempt to that

Ever heard of Alpha Widows?

In my dating history, I have created a few of those. Once you have one of those in your life, you will understand exactly how strong an imprint a man can leave on a woman's heart that no other man, even objectively much better ones, can hope to do.

At the core, this is the Game principle called You Are The Prize, or the Prize mentality. A man who is the Prize is irreplaceable in a woman's heart and soul. She's bonded strongly to him. When that man leaves her life, it leaves a void no other man, even better ones, can fill.

This is what I call the Alpha Widow anthem (Why Can't He Be You):

Quote:He takes me to the places you and I used to go
He tells me over and over that he loves me so
He gives me love that I never got from you
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you
He never fails to call and tell me I'm on his mind
And I'm lucky to have such a guy, I hear it all the time
And he does all the things that you would never do
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you
He's not the one who dominates my mind and soul
And I should love him so 'cause he loves me, I know
But his kisses leave me cold
He sends me flowers, calls on the hour, just to prove his love
And my friends say when he's around that I'm all he speaks of
And he does all the things that you would never do
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you
He's not the one who dominates my mind and soul
And I should love him so 'cause he loves me, I know
But his kisses leave me cold
He sends me flowers, calls on the hour, just to prove his love
And my friends say when he's around that I'm all he speaks of
And he does all the things that you would never do
He loves me too, his love is true
Why can't he be you

Note the line "dominates my mind and soul". Huge difference between that and men having high values, or men running regular Game. Once a woman submits completely to a man who dominates her, it is a very different level of Game.

You can go ahead and believe that you are replaceable, because women will then treat you exactly that way. Or you can choose a different mentality and see women treat you like their Prize.

We will have to agree to disagree

Post: #46

(12-04-2018 09:28 AM)HD668B Wrote:  This thread comes in a perfect timing since I just had this realization this week.

In the beginning you only have physical standards, you want a cute girl with a good body.

But then you will be longing for femininity. Meaning if the girl is a perfectly fuckable 7 or 8, but she is a total feminazi liberal bitch, you wont be able to get a boner.

Last step is where I am at now (unfortunately or fortunately) : physicality, feminity and personallity. Meaning if the girl is cute, is a sweetheart, but is just not clever or only have these average NPC thoughts, you cannot get a boner anymore.

IE: recently I was hosting a russian girl at my place. Super cutie, and obviously super feminine. But she was just not bright or cultivated enough.
The weird thing is, that lack of personality actually translated to her loosing attractiveness points, literally. I would look at her and physically think she is less pretty.

Like I said, as you age, youth is the biological weapon.

You can always find something that's wrong, just make sure you don't expect too much from her. Remember, she is a woman. You have guy friends to talk about interesting shit with

Post: #47

(12-04-2018 09:28 AM)HD668B Wrote:  This thread comes in a perfect timing since I just had this realization this week.

In the beginning you only have physical standards, you want a cute girl with a good body.

But then you will be longing for femininity. Meaning if the girl is a perfectly fuckable 7 or 8, but she is a total feminazi liberal bitch, you wont be able to get a boner.

Last step is where I am at now (unfortunately or fortunately) : physicality, feminity and personallity. Meaning if the girl is cute, is a sweetheart, but is just not clever or only have these average NPC thoughts, you cannot get a boner anymore.

IE: recently I was hosting a russian girl at my place. Super cutie, and obviously super feminine. But she was just not bright or cultivated enough.
The weird thing is, that lack of personality actually translated to her loosing attractiveness points, literally. I would look at her and physically think she is less pretty.

^^ Yes, you explained it perfectly. I have been dealing with this same issue.

Post: #48

(12-03-2018 04:25 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  And drive a big truck and be 6'2"

On a side note- > everybody I know who has gotten tattoos primarily to get girls (everyone not in the military, a lifelong fraternity, and partially people who get prison tattoos, special mention for memorial tattoos) has been so fucking bitchmade i honestly feel bad for em. Shits permanent man. I STILL see assholes getting tribal tattoos.

Please don't get tattoos for women. Please do things for yourself.

Tribal tatoos? What is this 1997 still? Sheesh.