Post: #101

I already swallowed the fact that a woman can never love me unconditionally. Now I can't love a woman either? Only pragmatically?

Fucking hell, what a world we live in.

Post: #102

(11-23-2018 02:56 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  I already swallowed the fact that a woman can never love me unconditionally. Now I can't love a woman either? Only pragmatically?

Fucking hell, what a world we live in.

A woman can love, but only in a very specific way. No one's love is unconditional and that's ok because for it to count, it has to be conditional. At least human love.

Post: #103

Conditional on cash is okay?

Doesn't seem right somehow.

Post: #104

That's a provider type arrangement, and probably the weakest one. Women typically go after 2 types of romantic arrangements. There are more, but provider and lover are most common.

A provider relationship is established on a man's ability to take care of a woman financially. Usually it involves a little bit more than cash. A provider will do things like see a need, fill it, present it and that's how you build relationship capital. How much you spend is not proportional to how much she values you, remember that. Contrary to what some people might say here this can actually be a good arrangement for the man. IF...IF expectations are manages, frame is held, boundaries established early. Etc. It's obvious you let all those slip and allowed her to take advantage of your provider frame.

Then there's a relationship where you play the role of the lover. You build a relationship based on giving her validation, punishment, emotional spikes, entertainment, spiritual fulfillment etc. The way to build relationship capital here is to manage your girls emotions. You see her emotional landscape and give her good feelings (pull), give her negative feelings (push). Women get addicted to that like heroine. It's a VERY powerful relationship dynamic. The downside is over time it takes an extreme amount of skill and discipline to manage correctly. Those boundaries, frame holding, and expectations still need to be set and it's even harder over time. Women's nature in this frame becomes even harder to deal with as they'll always be pushing you to provider, testing your percieved love, demanding attention. Because in this style those are your currency instead of well...currency. you're not ready for that yet because to survive in that frame you need to not only control your emotions but direct the flow of them to further your goals in the relationship while also directing the flow of hers to make your life tolerable.

Then there's a mix called "alpha provider" which is a mix of the two. It's an even harder tight rope to walk.

Those are the two most popular archetypes, lover and provider. There are many more but the further you to stray from those the more game you need. And it all exists in a spectrum

About women's love - they are children. An injured man may never fall in love like the first time. An injured woman just finds it harder and harder to get there, but most women can love carelessly again. A woman's love is a beautiful and great thing. It's a joy to experience. But it has its limits, it has hard limits. To the uninitiated it seems fickle and less romantic than a man's, it actually is but it's a matter of perspective. If you want to hold a woman's love you need to manage quite a few factors consistently, constantly, with skill and acumen. This isn't a fairy tale

Post: #105

The annoying thing is, I understand the logic of the principles, for instance I am aware that showing jealousy kills attraction. And yet when we're on text if she doesn't reply within 2 minutes, say replies after five, I'm liable to ask if she's chatting to someone else. Then we get into an argument. I know I should not show jealousy, but doing it is a completely different proposition.

I think I fell in love for the first time with this girl. I never felt this way before. Not sure why it should be, but it was.

The reason why we focused on the provider game here was because there was a real need on her part. She is in her late twenties but still lives with her mother. She has no job, but has to contribute her share of the bills. So she has a genuine need for money, to help her family with whom she is, unfortunately, very bound up.

I understood this. So I was willing to send a bit of cash, what are 500 dollars to me, after all, and if it meant a lot to her, well I care for her and want her to be happy. However, this has created an absolute entitlement mentality. She started to demand a certain amount, as of right, as it were, because she became used to it. Not sure how I could have avoided it. We're now at a stage where I was reading to go and be with her and she's saying things like, I want my full allowance, if you can't provide it I'll look for someone else. This after I said I would travel to her, so we can be together.

I actually picked her because I thought she was middle class, after all she'd shown her pics when she was in Japan and Denmark. I thought, wow she really travels. That's how naive I was, of course, she was just invited by her sister and by her boyfriend there, she didn't have much income. You can't rely on FB, you really have to get to know a person.

About love, I actually felt like she genuinely loved me. But it was bound up in financial need, constantly. She stayed with me for 3 years, even at the time when I was looking for a job for seven months. When I had the job she did not make outrageous demands, to be fair.

But now I want to take care of her, nothing is enough. It's like she got hooked on the money like an addict and needs a bigger hit each time.

Post: #106

Gotta agree wholeheartedly with Eugenics here.

And for the future, I would never give cash to a woman again if I were you. Invite your future girl to join you in your life/lifestyle, but I would never give cash ever again. I wouldn't give gifts, either. Given your prior experience, I'd say it would be too difficult for you to know where to draw the line, so you're better off with a hard no on gifts or cash outlays.

I'm not sure how old you are, but on the plus side, your bankroll is nice, so you can recover from this.

Post: #107

I did not set out to give her money. But I saw she was in real need. And if she had taken a job in Taiwan or something it could have ruined everything, better if she lives with her mother in a remote location.

I can recover financially, the material things never mean that much to me. But to recover from this disappointment will take some time. Imagine you tell the woman you love you're coming to be with her. And she tells you 'if you can't pay me an allowance I will find someone else, don't bother coming'.

I am hoping she doesn't mean that and is trying to see if I come anyway, even if she makes out she does not want me to come, and only cares about money. This is a recent thing, it wasn't like this before, she did not care about money that much before.

Post: #108

Look at what women do, not what they say. This woman doesn't respect you, understand that and move on. Find something that's going to increase your value and make you better and focus on that. If you want to give money to women, hire an escort, pay for the girlfriend experience if that's what you want but the thing that going to help you the most is investing in you. Learn something new, get better at something you already know, keep it moving.

Post: #109

(11-23-2018 01:17 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  Quite possibly the biggest simp posting on this forum right now. 90k? Long distance? Letting it interfere with your family duties? Definitely cheating on you? For what, a piece of ass. Ask the next man you see to slap you for me would you?

The fuck man. What a goddamn mess.

Not only that getting upset and accusing her of cheating if she takes 5 minutes to reply to a text rather than 2?

Boring and tense phone calls where you ask her questions like "what biscuit are you eating?"

Damn. I'm actually on her side now. She actually must have had huge patience to put up with such stupid and unattractive behaviour. 10's of thousands of dollars must have helped though.

Post: #110

(11-23-2018 09:53 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Damn. I'm actually on her side now. She actually must have had huge patience to put up with such stupid and unattractive behaviour. 10's of thousands of dollars must have helped though.

Bad news then, mate, we just made up. So imma going to be hitting that soon. Turns out she didn't want to be where she is, but if I fly her into Bangkok or another location she's fine with it.

Yes, she has huge patience, I'm really that hard work.

Post: #111

(11-23-2018 11:18 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  Yes, she has huge patience, I'm really that hard work.

simpin' ain't easy

Post: #112

How dare you!

Post: #113

If you understood the concepts and internalized them you would not be in this situation and that's a fact jack.

Come back when you actually want to learn, not just vent about how hard it is being a simp.

Post: #114

(11-23-2018 11:18 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  

(11-23-2018 09:53 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Damn. I'm actually on her side now. She actually must have had huge patience to put up with such stupid and unattractive behaviour. 10's of thousands of dollars must have helped though.

Bad news then, mate, we just made up. So imma going to be hitting that soon. Turns out she didn't want to be where she is, but if I fly her into Bangkok or another location she's fine with it.

Yes, she has huge patience, I'm really that hard work.

Some people just have to learn the hard way.

Post: #115

(11-23-2018 11:18 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  

(11-23-2018 09:53 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Damn. I'm actually on her side now. She actually must have had huge patience to put up with such stupid and unattractive behaviour. 10's of thousands of dollars must have helped though.

Bad news then, mate, we just made up. So imma going to be hitting that soon. Turns out she didn't want to be where she is, but if I fly her into Bangkok or another location she's fine with it.

Yes, she has huge patience, I'm really that hard work.

Uh ... congratulations? How much did you pay her this time? You do realise you could get many much hotter girls that live closer and are less hassle for the same price right? Have you heard of SeekingArrangement? but since you're hugely unattractive and gameless you will still have to pay a lot though.

Don't think of yourself as 'hard work' in a good way. You're hard work because you don't have any game, you text and call her with pointless questions about her choice of biscuit and other useless nonsense, and if she doesn't respond in a timely enough fashion you accuse her of cheating. That is extremely desperate and unattractive behaviour that she finds it hard to put up with even with 90k lol.

Also, why's it bad news for me "mate"? Do you think I'm jealous of your golddigging filipina hooker?

Post: #116

(11-23-2018 06:00 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  Gotta agree wholeheartedly with Eugenics here.

And for the future, I would never give cash to a woman again if I were you. Invite your future girl to join you in your life/lifestyle, but I would never give cash ever again. I wouldn't give gifts, either. Given your prior experience, I'd say it would be too difficult for you to know where to draw the line, so you're better off with a hard no on gifts or cash outlays.

I'm not sure how old you are, but on the plus side, your bankroll is nice, so you can recover from this.

Really? Is this possible if you're in a LTR with a normal Filipina? I'd be interested in hearing how to navigate that situation if you're a higher income western man with a wife or GF who's a domestic helper or caregiver. Or should that disparity be avoided altogether? Or was that advise just for Jeff?

Post: #117

(11-24-2018 07:15 PM)Duke Main Wrote:  

(11-23-2018 06:00 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  Gotta agree wholeheartedly with Eugenics here.

And for the future, I would never give cash to a woman again if I were you. Invite your future girl to join you in your life/lifestyle, but I would never give cash ever again. I wouldn't give gifts, either. Given your prior experience, I'd say it would be too difficult for you to know where to draw the line, so you're better off with a hard no on gifts or cash outlays.

I'm not sure how old you are, but on the plus side, your bankroll is nice, so you can recover from this.

Really? Is this possible if you're in a LTR with a normal Filipina? I'd be interested in hearing how to navigate that situation if you're a higher income western man with a wife or GF who's a domestic helper or caregiver. Or should that disparity be avoided altogether? Or was that advise just for Jeff?

I meant it just for Jeff, but I don't give cash...I also don't date domestic helpers, though, so I can't give advice on that scenario.

Post: #118

I became active on the forum after a short-lived, passionate romance ended with my heart being ripped out of my chest by a cold, ruthless, alcoholic bitch. I was controlling because I was overly invested-she was the only thing that was positive in my life, and I was deathly scared to lose her.

I've had numerous plates and mini relationships since, and I just can't bring myself to give a shit about a woman again. I might be scarred permanently, I'm not totally sure. It's a different level of frame when you enter a short term relationship knowing that it has an expiration date while continuing to line up your options as the relationship goes on.

This world is ruthless and cold, and women don't give a shit about you. They are out for themselves and what they can get out of you. Don't ever mistake a woman's love as unselfish-they are only looking out for themselves. Once they are done with you they will discard you, block you, and move on to the next branch. I don't see a point in being controlling. I'm just enjoying my turn on the carousel and increasing my value for the next woman.

Between family, friends, and women, so many people have discarded me that it doesn't have an effect on me anymore. I'm obsessed with myself, increasing my SMV, and becoming the biggest Chad of all time. I hardly have time to think about failed relationships other than finding suitable replacements. It's been quite a transformation for me-I used to be an eager, loyal, helpful boyfriend and friend. Now, my narcissism has taken full control over my life, and I can't seem to care for more than a few hours about a lost relationship.

Point I'm trying to make: If you have this frame, there is no need to control a woman. You know she is going to eventually dump you or branch swing, just fuck her while it lasts, keep increasing for SMV and options.

Post: #119

(11-24-2018 12:55 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  If you understood the concepts and internalized them you would not be in this situation and that's a fact jack.

Come back when you actually want to learn, not just vent about how hard it is being a simp.

Well the situation has been resolved. We've made up and everything is fine now. We will move to Bangkok together.

I know some of the issues were my fault previously. And I do want to learn, how to improve things in this very difficult relationship. So for this this thread has been excellent, some very helpful advice has been received. I will work on improving things going forward.

Post: #120

(11-24-2018 02:14 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Uh ... congratulations? How much did you pay her this time? You do realise you could get many much hotter girls that live closer and are less hassle for the same price right? Have you heard of SeekingArrangement? but since you're hugely unattractive and gameless you will still have to pay a lot though.

Don't think of yourself as 'hard work' in a good way. You're hard work because you don't have any game, you text and call her with pointless questions about her choice of biscuit and other useless nonsense, and if she doesn't respond in a timely enough fashion you accuse her of cheating. That is extremely desperate and unattractive behaviour that she finds it hard to put up with even with 90k lol.

Also, why's it bad news for me "mate"? Do you think I'm jealous of your golddigging filipina hooker?

I did not pay her anything this time. I'm into Seeking Arrangement type set ups, it's not what I'm after. There aren't any girls that are hotter than she is, she's as hot it gets. Hence I'm okay to take on a bit of hassle now and then. You don't know me for jack, so you don't know how attractive I am. I'm actually a good looking guy. Yes, my game can improve, I'm working on that. And yeah, you would be jealous if you saw her. She's not a hooker. Just incredibly hot.

Post: #121

(11-24-2018 11:23 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  

(11-24-2018 12:55 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  If you understood the concepts and internalized them you would not be in this situation and that's a fact jack.

Come back when you actually want to learn, not just vent about how hard it is being a simp.

Well the situation has been resolved. We've made up and everything is fine now. We will move to Bangkok together.

I know some of the issues were my fault previously. And I do want to learn, how to improve things in this very difficult relationship. So for this this thread has been excellent, some very helpful advice has been received. I will work on improving things going forward.

You must be trolling. I refuse to believe a man that makes as much money as you claim that also has a wife and kids is this fucking stupid.



On the off chance you're not. "Everything is fine now" ok, maybe for now. "the situation has be resolved" certainly not. You're in for a lot of pain and heartbreak. Good luck to you sir. I'm out

Post: #122

(11-24-2018 07:15 PM)Duke Main Wrote:  Really? Is this possible if you're in a LTR with a normal Filipina? I'd be interested in hearing how to navigate that situation if you're a higher income western man with a wife or GF who's a domestic helper or caregiver. Or should that disparity be avoided altogether? Or was that advise just for Jeff?

Exactly, you can't really avoid it, if you are in a rel with a person that is in real financial need there will come a time when you can't refuse and need to step up. She's not a domestic helper or caregiver btw.

Post: #123

(11-24-2018 08:42 PM)Graft Wrote:  I became active on the forum after a short-lived, passionate romance ended with my heart being ripped out of my chest by a cold, ruthless, alcoholic bitch. I was controlling because I was overly invested-she was the only thing that was positive in my life, and I was deathly scared to lose her.

I've had numerous plates and mini relationships since, and I just can't bring myself to give a shit about a woman again. I might be scarred permanently, I'm not totally sure. It's a different level of frame when you enter a short term relationship knowing that it has an expiration date while continuing to line up your options as the relationship goes on.

This world is ruthless and cold, and women don't give a shit about you. They are out for themselves and what they can get out of you. Don't ever mistake a woman's love as unselfish-they are only looking out for themselves. Once they are done with you they will discard you, block you, and move on to the next branch. I don't see a point in being controlling. I'm just enjoying my turn on the carousel and increasing my value for the next woman.

Between family, friends, and women, so many people have discarded me that it doesn't have an effect on me anymore. I'm obsessed with myself, increasing my SMV, and becoming the biggest Chad of all time. I hardly have time to think about failed relationships other than finding suitable replacements. It's been quite a transformation for me-I used to be an eager, loyal, helpful boyfriend and friend. Now, my narcissism has taken full control over my life, and I can't seem to care for more than a few hours about a lost relationship.

Point I'm trying to make: If you have this frame, there is no need to control a woman. You know she is going to eventually dump you or branch swing, just fuck her while it lasts, keep increasing for SMV and options.

I'm sorry to hear how things have gone in your past life. But you seem to have excellent self awareness and if that is how you want to live I hope it works for you. For me I think also control to exhaustion is a waste of time, but I'd still try to minimize sources of potential irritation. I think the key is just not to let the control itself become a source of irritation. I don't think I would want to pre-assume that a girl will leave me. I have more confidence in what I can offer that a girl will stay. All the LTRs I've had before the girls wanted to stay, I made the call. My experience has not been one of women deserting me. More the opposite.

Post: #124

(11-24-2018 11:27 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  You must be trolling. I refuse to believe a man that makes as much money as you claim that also has a wife and kids is this fucking stupid.

On the off chance you're not. "Everything is fine now" ok, maybe for now. "the situation has be resolved" certainly not. You're in for a lot of pain and heartbreak. Good luck to you sir. I'm out

I'm not stupid, I am taking a calculated risk. Yes, it may not work out, if so I will find someone else. I meant the immediate issues have been resolved, I am well aware that there will be issues to resolve going forward. Pain and heartbreak are inevitable, we will all get sick and die of old age, but before then I am going to have a damn fine time in Bangkok. Anyway, good luck to you.

Post: #125

(11-24-2018 11:27 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  She's not a hooker. Just incredibly hot.

How much time have you spent in SEA in total?

You're kind of girl was my favourite kind living broke in Bangkok. Sponsor lives overseas, girl is bored but doesn't want to spoil a good thing. They call up the sponsor screaming and crying about the cow/relative sick/emergency, sponsor sends over a quick Western Union and it's bottles on the town. Briefly wait on balcony/outside whilst video call of gratitude takes place.

Let us know when you have to take a trip and leave her alone in BKK. I'm sure plenty of volunteers to help her spend that law money